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Wizard
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March 26th, 2019 at 1:31:49 PM permalink
You may recall from the thread on Ocean Magic that advantage players took online casinos for almost a million dollars because the Ocean Magic game started in the same advantage game state for every player in every casino and every bet denomination. You would think a million dollar loss would cause someone to figure out why Ocean Magic was getting killed. A simple Internet search would have easily taken them to the Ocean Magic thread here or this article.

I thought Atlantic City casinos were supposed to be struggling, but perhaps a million dollars is just a drop in the bucket and didn't make anybody's radar. Whatever the case, the same group of advantage players hit another game with the exact same flaw, Golden Egypt. Here is a full article about it, DÉJÀ VU: ADVANTAGE PLAYER CRACKS ONLINE CASINOS AGAIN, THIS TIME FOR OVER $500K.

Golden Egypt is a popular game here in Las Vegas. Now that the cat is out of the bag on that advantage play, I think I'll explain in which of the 32 coin configurations it is a positive play. It is definitely vulnerable to vultures anywhere.

The question for now is there a third game out there with the same kind of variable state flaw or will the casinos figure out what went wrong this time? The whole thing reminds me of this quote...


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

The question for the poll is what are your thoughts? (multiple votes allowed)
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AxelWolf
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March 26th, 2019 at 1:42:28 PM permalink
WOW you are missing a bunch of good poll options on this(fail)

I'll help you out a little.

Will it be much less likely they make a 3rd mistake since I have been laying out exactly why and how they are making mistakes along with the aproximate player advantage?


Revel (math)
Plaza

Just a little reminder since...
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat (or something like that.)

p.s. Just giving you a hard time since, well , I know this is what you do. It seems to me you have actually been way more thoughtful of AP'S for a long while now.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Mar 26, 2019
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
onenickelmiracle
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March 26th, 2019 at 1:53:26 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You may recall from the thread on Ocean Magic that advantage players took online casinos for almost a million dollars because the Ocean Magic game started in the same advantage game state for every player in every casino and every bet denomination. You would think a million dollar loss would cause someone to figure out why Ocean Magic was getting killed. A simple Internet search would have easily taken them to the Ocean Magic thread here or this article.

I thought Atlantic City casinos were supposed to be struggling, but perhaps a million dollars is just a drop in the bucket and didn't make anybody's radar. Whatever the case, the same group of advantage players hit another game with the exact same flaw, Golden Egypt. Here is a full article about it, DÉJÀ VU: ADVANTAGE PLAYER CRACKS ONLINE CASINOS AGAIN, THIS TIME FOR OVER $500K.

Golden Egypt is a popular game here in Las Vegas. Now that the cat is out of the bag on that advantage play, I think I'll explain in which of the 32 coin configurations it is a positive play. It is definitely vulnerable to vultures anywhere.

The question for now is there a third game out there with the same kind of variable state flaw or will the casinos figure out what went wrong this time? The whole thing reminds me of this quote...


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

The question for the poll is what are your thoughts? (multiple votes allowed)

You are the one taking the cat out of the bag.
I am a robot.
Wizard
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March 26th, 2019 at 2:33:03 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

You are the one taking the cat out of the bag.



Seems to me that njonlinegambling.com did.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
onenickelmiracle
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March 26th, 2019 at 3:18:37 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Seems to me that njonlinegambling.com did.

Not really, they're at the bottom of the page, you'll be at the top. You're just using that as an excuse. BFS.
I am a robot.
Wizard
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March 26th, 2019 at 3:48:43 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Not really, they're at the bottom of the page, you'll be at the top. You're just using that as an excuse. BFS.



Fair point. I would argue that the Golden Egypt play is well known already through word of mouth.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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March 27th, 2019 at 1:31:51 PM permalink
Here are some results for Golden Egypt. Before I get into them, let me explain the humdinger of the game. Each reel has slots for two coins, or something that looks like a coin to me. If a coin symbols appears on a reel, it will float up to a slot for that reel. If both slots for a reel are filled with coins, then the next two spins will be fully wild on that reel and the two coins removed from the slots. However, the player still has to make a bet for that spin. So, if the previous player abandoned enough coins on the reels, it can have a player advantage until the game is back to a negative state. Here is a video of someone playing it.


Direct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3R2tgy33Xs

That said, my initial results so far show that if there are at least two coins in reels 1 to 4, then you should play. Reel 5 doesn't figure into the decision. I should say that someone on the Golden Egypt Atlantic City Team feels my advantage numbers are too small.

Here they are for all 32 coin configurations. A 1 means there is already a coin and a 0 not. The value column shows the value, measured in bets, of finding a game in that state. If it's blank, then the value is negative. This is based on a hypothetical 94% game, which I know is a rosy assumption. The spins column shows the average number of times you'll play to get that value out of the game. So, the value should not be misinterpreted as a player advantage per spin.

Initial coin pattern Value Spins
0--0--0--0--0
0--0--0--0--1
0--0--0--1--0
0--0--0--1--1
0--0--1--0--0
0--0--1--0--1
0--0--1--1--0 0.23 15.35
0--0--1--1--1 0.65 15.62
0--1--0--0--0
0--1--0--0--1
0--1--0--1--0 0.37 15.36
0--1--0--1--1 0.79 15.62
0--1--1--0--0 1.93 15.35
0--1--1--0--1 2.36 15.62
0--1--1--1--0 3.16 17.48
0--1--1--1--1 3.96 17.64
1--0--0--0--0
1--0--0--0--1
1--0--0--1--0 0.35 15.36
1--0--0--1--1 0.77 15.62
1--0--1--0--0 1.90 15.35
1--0--1--0--1 2.34 15.63
1--0--1--1--0 3.13 17.48
1--0--1--1--1 3.94 17.64
1--1--0--0--0 2.05 15.36
1--1--0--0--1 2.49 15.63
1--1--0--1--0 3.29 17.48
1--1--0--1--1 4.09 17.64
1--1--1--0--0 5.40 17.48
1--1--1--0--1 6.21 17.64
1--1--1--1--0 7.46 18.84
1--1--1--1--1 8.94 18.96


Questions or comments?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AxelWolf
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March 27th, 2019 at 1:55:41 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fair point. I would argue that the Golden Egypt play is well known already through word of mouth.

FYI your cats seem to get more attention and validity. The industry as a hole probably takes heed once you give your opinion and show the math.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Chuckleberry
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March 27th, 2019 at 2:35:12 PM permalink
I like the binary breakdown.

Occasionally someone will leave with the wild activated, and there will be one or two spins with wilds coming on subsequent spins. I would assume it's a good play with a wild column in reels 1-3 and not a good play in reel 5, but not sure about the 4th reel.
Just trying to stay positive
smurgerburger
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March 27th, 2019 at 3:38:11 PM permalink
I would like to see the EV for actually wild reels.
Wizard
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March 27th, 2019 at 4:55:51 PM permalink
Here are some results for an 86% game. As to the wilds, I recommend playing with any already wild reel. In looking at it more carefully, if you have reel 5 wild only and no coins, then don't play. However, it is marginal to complicate the strategy rules for both coins and wilds.

That said, for an 86% game, I recommend playing with at least two wilds in the first three reels.

Initial coin patern Win per session Avg spins
0--0--0--0--0
0--0--0--0--1
0--0--0--1--0
0--0--0--1--1
0--0--1--0--0
0--0--1--0--1
0--0--1--1--0
0--0--1--1--1
0--1--0--0--0
0--1--0--0--1
0--1--0--1--0
0--1--0--1--1
0--1--1--0--0 0.75 10.86
0--1--1--0--1 1.08 11.09
0--1--1--1--0 1.79 11.08
0--1--1--1--1 2.45 11.29
1--0--0--0--0
1--0--0--0--1
1--0--0--1--0
1--0--0--1--1
1--0--1--0--0 0.73 10.85
1--0--1--0--1 1.07 11.08
1--0--1--1--0 1.77 11.08
1--0--1--1--1 2.41 11.29
1--1--0--0--0 0.87 10.86
1--1--0--0--1 1.23 11.07
1--1--0--1--0 1.91 11.07
1--1--0--1--1 2.57 11.30
1--1--1--0--0 3.82 12.94
1--1--1--0--1 4.48 13.07
1--1--1--1--0 5.61 13.08
1--1--1--1--1 6.79 13.22
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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March 27th, 2019 at 5:03:10 PM permalink
Quote: smurgerburger

I would like to see the EV for actually wild reels.



Here are expected returns by which reels were left wild. This is for the next spin only and does not consider the value of future spins. Usual caveat of these being rough estimates.


Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5 ER
0 0 0 0 0 0.23
0 0 0 0 1 0.30
0 0 0 1 0 0.42
0 0 0 1 1 0.85
0 0 1 0 0 1.04
0 0 1 0 1 1.53
0 0 1 1 0 2.65
0 0 1 1 1 6.69
0 1 0 0 0 1.20
0 1 0 0 1 1.68
0 1 0 1 0 2.78
0 1 0 1 1 6.75
0 1 1 0 0 9.38
0 1 1 0 1 13.71
0 1 1 1 0 26.34
0 1 1 1 1 71.76
1 0 0 0 0 1.19
1 0 0 0 1 1.65
1 0 0 1 0 2.76
1 0 0 1 1 6.73
1 0 1 0 0 9.30
1 0 1 0 1 13.52
1 0 1 1 0 26.22
1 0 1 1 1 71.76
1 1 0 0 0 9.57
1 1 0 0 1 13.77
1 1 0 1 0 26.71
1 1 0 1 1 73.20
1 1 1 0 0 32.91
1 1 1 0 1 74.93
1 1 1 1 0 89.06
1 1 1 1 1 300.12
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
smurgerburger
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March 27th, 2019 at 5:10:27 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Here are some results for an 86% game. As to the wilds, I recommend playing with any already wild reel. In looking at it more carefully, if you have reel 5 wild only and no coins, then don't play. However, it is marginal to complicate the strategy rules for both coins and wilds.



Is your suggestion about wilds intended for the 86% game or the 96% game?
Wizard
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March 27th, 2019 at 5:19:09 PM permalink
Quote: smurgerburger

Is your suggestion about wilds intended for the 86% game or the 96% game?



86%
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
kuma
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March 27th, 2019 at 9:41:08 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

The industry as a hole...



Nicely put; I agree.
mamat
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March 28th, 2019 at 11:12:33 AM permalink
I had pretty good results with 10010, 01010, 00110 at a loose casino. 23-37% (for 96% game) seems VERY low.
10100, 01100, 11000 at Vegas seems *barely* above even (EV = $0.50/dollar-denomination; e.g. a play at $3 is EV=$1.50). 73-86% (for 86% game) seems low.

If both col 4 & col 5 are wild I play, but didn't keep stats.
smurgerburger
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March 28th, 2019 at 10:37:41 PM permalink
For what it's worth, probably not much, 4 and 5 wild together always seemed like a play to me, but states like 1001 and similar never seemed even tempting.

I'm still surprised Wiz has 4+5 as not a play. A low value natural 3 of a kind doesn't seem *that* rare.
Wizard
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March 29th, 2019 at 7:03:26 AM permalink
I appreciate the comments. As a reminder, I had to make up the reel stripping for this game. My advice works for my game. I tried to make it close to the actual game, but without the actual reel stripping, I can only estimate.

Meanwhile, I stand by my advice of playing 2 out of the first 3 reels.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
100xOdds
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March 29th, 2019 at 1:21:15 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Here are some results for an 86% game. As to the wilds, I recommend playing with any already wild reel. In looking at it more carefully, if you have reel 5 wild only and no coins, then don't play. However, it is marginal to complicate the strategy rules for both coins and wilds.

That said, for an 86% game, I recommend playing with at least two wilds in the first three reels.

Initial coin patern Win per session Avg spins
0--0--0--0--0
0--0--0--0--1
0--0--0--1--0
0--0--0--1--1
0--0--1--0--0
0--0--1--0--1
0--0--1--1--0
0--0--1--1--1
0--1--0--0--0
0--1--0--0--1
0--1--0--1--0
0--1--0--1--1
0--1--1--0--0 0.75 10.86
0--1--1--0--1 1.08 11.09
0--1--1--1--0 1.79 11.08
0--1--1--1--1 2.45 11.29
1--0--0--0--0
1--0--0--0--1
1--0--0--1--0
1--0--0--1--1
1--0--1--0--0 0.73 10.85
1--0--1--0--1 1.07 11.08
1--0--1--1--0 1.77 11.08
1--0--1--1--1 2.41 11.29
1--1--0--0--0 0.87 10.86
1--1--0--0--1 1.23 11.07
1--1--0--1--0 1.91 11.07
1--1--0--1--1 2.57 11.30
1--1--1--0--0 3.82 12.94
1--1--1--0--1 4.48 13.07
1--1--1--1--0 5.61 13.08
1--1--1--1--1 6.79 13.22

from your chart, it seems only 2 coins in the 1st 3 columns is -EV.
you need 3 coins, with 2 in the 1st 3 columns .

incidentally, what's the win per session for 10011, 01011 and 00111?
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Wizard
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March 29th, 2019 at 2:21:06 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

incidentally, what's the win per session for 10011, 01011 and 00111?



Maybe I didn't make myself clear, but my advice is to play only with at least two coins in the first three reels from the left. Profit/loss figures would be misleading otherwise, because the player shouldn't play in the first place. I would need some sort of play ending event, which is currently NOT having at least 2 coins in the first three reels.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
100xOdds
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March 29th, 2019 at 2:37:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, but my advice is to play only with at least two coins in the first three reels from the left.


maybe im mis-reading your chart but it seems only having 2 coins in the 1st 3 reels is -EV?
0--1--1--0--0 0.75 ev
1--0--1--0--0 0.73 ev
1--1--0--0--0 0.87 ev

and from my experience, I've lost more $ than won by playing only 2 coins in the 1st 3 reels.
so play with 2 coins in the first 3 reels PLUS at least another coin in any reel?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Chuckleberry
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March 29th, 2019 at 2:39:52 PM permalink
His chart shows expected win over the average spins in the 3rd column, not ev
Just trying to stay positive
AxelWolf
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March 29th, 2019 at 2:46:53 PM permalink
Are you going to ruin Golden Egypt too Wiz? 6 votes (35.29%)
Please write that full article on Golden Egypt Wiz 6 votes (35.29%)

We have a tie so far.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
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March 29th, 2019 at 4:40:51 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

maybe im mis-reading your chart but it seems only having 2 coins in the 1st 3 reels is -EV?
0--1--1--0--0 0.75 ev
1--0--1--0--0 0.73 ev
1--1--0--0--0 0.87 ev

and from my experience, I've lost more $ than won by playing only 2 coins in the 1st 3 reels.
so play with 2 coins in the first 3 reels PLUS at least another coin in any reel?



The 0.75 means that taking over a game with coins in reels 2 and 3 is worth 75% of a bet. It is not a return on investment, but a bonus, shall we say.

Your point about actual wins and losses are well taken. As I wrote before, I could be wrong. Let me chew on it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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March 29th, 2019 at 4:41:41 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Are you going to ruin Golden Egypt too Wiz? 6 votes (35.29%)
Please write that full article on Golden Egypt Wiz 6 votes (35.29%)

We have a tie so far.



I'll probably ruin it regardless of the vote ;-)
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
TennisRatings
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March 30th, 2019 at 9:28:18 AM permalink
Interesting thread, and thanks to Wizard for posting these numbers - a couple of observations...

Having run thousands of spins via the freeplay emulator at Casumo previously, I also suspected 2/4/5 was slightly positive although naturally it's very dependent on the target percentage of the machine in the particular location, and given that a decent percentage of the payout is reliant on bonuses and the odd huge win, it would be variance heavy.

However, if you need to increase playing volume (and who doesn't) then it's good to know that at least it's viable. The problem with this game in general is that the +EV scenarios tend to manifest themselves more at lower stakes, meaning that generating considerable volume (which of course -> expected profit) isn't easy. Even if you see a recreational player walk away from a decent setup, it's pretty likely your turnover on that unit will be below $50 and hence your expected profit isn't anything remotely spectacular. I guess if you see a unit on 2/4/5 on a higher stake, then the $EV could actually be higher than a better setup on a lower stake, etc...

My other thought focuses on reel 5. In my own research I can only really remember one major scenario which developed and significantly benefited from reel 5 also being wild. I'm pretty surprised that there's a considerable difference in the EV between 2/4 and 2/4/5 and also between 1/4 and 1/4/5.
smurgerburger
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March 30th, 2019 at 10:51:15 AM permalink
Logically reel 5 should be very valuable in conjunction with other reels.

In your own examples if 1/4 improves on 1 then 1/4/5 will automatically increase the payout further by 25% (or whatever the average difference between 5oak and 4oak) over 1/4, excluding redundancies where the natural 5th reel symbol would have made 5oak anyway.

My concern with the high limit machines is the possibility that the RTP is significantly lower on these as Mickey Crimm suggested somewhere.
onenickelmiracle
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March 30th, 2019 at 6:24:35 PM permalink
2 coins you can fool yourself when there is plenty more to get, but when you only have 2 coins good luck.
I am a robot.
Wizard
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April 8th, 2019 at 9:07:48 PM permalink
Please be among the first to enjoy my new page on Golden Egypt. As always, I welcome all comments.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
mamat
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April 8th, 2019 at 10:33:41 PM permalink
When machines are tight (e.g. Vegas), I recommend AT LEAST THREE COINS (two coins in the first three reels).
1-1-0-0-1
1-0-1-0-1
0-1-1-0-1
or better

If machines are super-loose, I recommend two coins in the first FOUR reels.
1-0-0-1-0
0-1-0-1-0
0-0-1-1-0
or better
Gialmere
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April 8th, 2019 at 10:48:57 PM permalink
A small nit, but in the external link section you twice refer to the game as "Golden Magic".

Also, in the recent "Bullfight" entry, rule #10 has eight rank errors.
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onenickelmiracle
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April 8th, 2019 at 11:34:01 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

A small nit, but in the external link section you twice refer to the game as "Golden Magic".

Also, in the recent "Bullfight" entry, rule #10 has eight rank errors.

I saw that right away, it makes perfect sense. Which one is Pink?
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Wizard
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April 9th, 2019 at 5:58:08 AM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

A small nit, but in the external link section you twice refer to the game as "Golden Magic".

Also, in the recent "Bullfight" entry, rule #10 has eight rank errors.



Thank you for the corrections.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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April 21st, 2019 at 10:42:05 AM permalink
Hello!
Someone remember that I talked about this in 2017 here, but everyone laughed/doubted

: )
prozema
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Romes
April 21st, 2019 at 5:28:15 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

Hello!
Someone remember that I talked about this in 2017 here, but everyone laughed/doubted

: )



That's how this place works.
rdw4potus
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BTLWI
April 21st, 2019 at 5:50:26 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

Hello!
Someone remember that I talked about this in 2017 here, but everyone laughed/doubted

: )



You talked about a different issue with this same game. And most people did understand and just wanted you to stop talking about it in public.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
AxelWolf
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kgb92
April 22nd, 2019 at 2:14:56 AM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

Hello!
Someone remember that I talked about this in 2017 here, but everyone laughed/doubted

: )

Did you make 10's of thousands so far?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Dobrij
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April 22nd, 2019 at 3:35:37 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus


You talked about a different issue with this same game. And most people did understand and just wanted you to stop talking about it in public.





You do not understand, we wanted it to produce a resonance. Since we had a long time to explain with the manufacturer IGT. But as I see there (in IGT) are idiots who having learned about the problem for a long time, did not fix it.

I think many gamblers to make money on it, so this is a happy end : )

Oh, for dissatisfied, for the professional gamblers who think that the casino owes them, they are simply greedy and stupid people, which besides the casinos donít know anything, these are parasites of society, and they have a distorted psyche
onenickelmiracle
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April 22nd, 2019 at 8:25:19 AM permalink
I remembered Dobrij's post. They install them now with only one coin on reel 3, before was 1,3,5. Maybe that's how they start different payback returns. I have experience seeing 1,3,5s then the 3s put in and later the 135s out.
I am a robot.
AxelWolf
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April 22nd, 2019 at 10:36:35 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I remembered Dobrij's post. They install them now with only one coin on reel 3, before was 1,3,5. Maybe that's how they start different payback returns. I have experience seeing 1,3,5s then the 3s put in and later the 135s out.

Yes, this was also what Exoter (or whatever his name was) was going on about when he was claiming to be making hundreds of thousands a month or whatever. I think there was also a discussion about this and Drich confirmed some aspects of it being changed because of AP's.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
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April 22nd, 2019 at 10:59:26 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Yes, this was also what Exoter (or whatever his name was) was going on about when he was claiming to be making hundreds of thousands a month or whatever. I think there was also a discussion about this and Drich confirmed some aspects of it being changed because of AP's.



So are APs angry that other people figured it out?

Angry they couldn't keep a lucrative secret because of the nature and power of human knowledge
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
smurgerburger
smurgerburger
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April 22nd, 2019 at 9:13:43 PM permalink
Why did you want IGT to fix it?
prozema
prozema
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April 22nd, 2019 at 9:15:46 PM permalink
I think most of us just want IGT to keep doing what they do.
smurgerburger
smurgerburger
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April 22nd, 2019 at 9:22:39 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

You do not understand, we wanted it to produce a resonance. Since we had a long time to explain with the manufacturer IGT. But as I see there (in IGT) are idiots who having learned about the problem for a long time, did not fix it.



I was referring to this.
Dobrij
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April 23rd, 2019 at 12:44:07 AM permalink
Quote: smurgerburger

I was referring to this.



Because I represent the casino in this situation, and we had a court with the players and the commission on the gambling business. We had to pay damages
AxelWolf
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April 23rd, 2019 at 3:35:09 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

So are APs angry that other people figured it out?

Angry they couldn't keep a lucrative secret because of the nature and power of human knowledge

I have no idea how much one could have made if they few to every location where they were first installing seeded games. I guess it would depend on the denominations and how many others showed up to do the same. I don't even know how juiced up the machine were when they started. I am not angry since I rarely play them.

The internet sucks for some AP's because all of the spoon fed information easily given out. Books were bad enough, however, one had to know something good was going on and then know what books to look for. Then they would actually have go get the books. IIRC it was Card player magazine that also helped kill lots of good stuff like Flush Attack. Knowing what I know now, i'm surprised the Flush Attack actually lasted as long as it did. When I quit my Job to pursue that, I had no clue what to expect. I just took leap of faith, perhaps I just assumed it would last forever. Nowadays, something like that would not last for long because it would get flooded with nothing but hustlers.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
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April 23rd, 2019 at 4:06:41 AM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

Because I represent the casino in this situation, and we had a court with the players and the commission on the gambling business. We had to pay damages



Ah, a darksider.

And admits they lost in court and had to pay damages

Let me guess you tried to swindle the players by refusing to honor the money they won?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Dobrij
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April 23rd, 2019 at 6:07:11 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Ah, a darksider.

And admits they lost in court and had to pay damages

Let me guess you tried to swindle the players by refusing to honor the money they won?



Yes, I looked at the martingale secret : ))

We paid damages from the manufacturer of the machines and not the players. In this business of the absurd and bureaucracy enough. Wonder how the other operators will solve the problems, who suffered losses with this games...
smurgerburger
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April 23rd, 2019 at 5:09:33 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

Because I represent the casino in this situation, and we had a court with the players and the commission on the gambling business. We had to pay damages



Makes sense.
kgb92
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June 26th, 2019 at 7:43:18 PM permalink
Quick question about vulturing Golden Egypt and similars with a player's card that seems to have been missed.

It seems to me that using a player's card with this game is ok, up until the point that you will be receiving the wild colums together. Especially since there are frequently many spins involved.

1 spin before wild column(s) are coming I would say to remove the card, since you can see the huge wins coming in advance. I would think that even ploppy players could figure this out.

Perhaps this will also work at the moment that you hit the rare bonus. Yank out the card and avoid showing that win as well.
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