Ocean Magic
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20 members have voted
Quote: kumaI have only been playing Reels 1 and 4 if bubbles line up in the same row at the same time (assuming no other bubbles on Reels 2 and 3). It looks like here you are suggesting a bubble on Reel 4 doesn’t necessarily have to be on the same row as one on Reel 1, which is interesting.
I'm assuming lots of pay-lines. However, the paylines move like a chess queen from reel to reel, either straight or directly diagonal.
Seems like vulturing might earn you $50 a day if you are lucky
There is probably a better way to maximise the AP value of this game but I am not gonna discuss that here
Hope I am not "bursting anyones bubbles" hee hee hee
Quote: darkozIs there anyone even making serious money vulturing Ocean Magic?
Seems like vulturing might earn you $50 a day if you are lucky
Vulturing in areas with a high concentratration of vultures is definitely a tough way too go. I think some do well outside of AC and Vegas. As with any AP play, things get exponentially devalued as more people start trying to take advantage of the same thing.
That's why I'm not a fan of disclosing plays that I know of but do not partake. I might personally have others with more value and thus spend my time on them. However, I don't want to dilute the value of a fellow AP who might be working a lesser valued play because that's the best they know of. It is professionally disrespectful.
I probably made less than $500-1,000/month ($15-30/day) on Ocean Magic.Quote: darkozIs there anyone even making serious money vulturing Ocean Magic?
Seems like vulturing might earn you $50 a day if you are lucky
It was a solid play, but the volume/value of plays was not high. Never added it up separately, as it was always one of my "misc games"
If you add up different plays:
UX $100-150/day
A3D $50-100/day
PWZ $10-50/day
OM $10-20/day
-------------------
$170-320/day ($5K-15K/month, $60K-180K/year)
Note: Different areas will have greatly different values.
Major reason Aladdin is so much better than Golden Egypt is the EV of a $1 bet-play (personal estimates averaged over all plays - Aladdin 10.00 at Harrah's, Golden 0.50 in Vegas). 500% would put Ocean Magic at about 40-50% of Aladdin value, but I usually do less detailed tracking than Wizard, so my EV values were averaged over all plays (good and not-so-good). It sounds reasonable.Quote: prozemaIf a single bubble on reel 3 is ever worth 500% rtp, I'm running cold.
EV of a PWZ at 300 was about $25 at Harrah's (tight).
I never analyzed the value at lower levels of 250, 200, 180, 150.
When I started playing in mid-2016, we played at 290+ and abandoned at 220-250.
PWZ ended up being worth less than A3D because of the volume of plays.
UX is worth about $1.50 EV per $1 bet-play (low), but the volume of plays can be quite high, and the downside risk is minimal.
If you find about $200 bet-plays/day, you will probably make $100/day ($50/day short-term with $50/day bigger hits).
Most games are like that. A good portion (or most) of the EV can be in stuff you only hit once/week or once/month.
Quote: MaxPenVulturing in areas with a high concentratration of vultures is definitely a tough way too go. I think some do well outside of AC and Vegas. As with any AP play, things get exponentially devalued as more people start trying to take advantage of the same thing.
That's why I'm not a fan of disclosing plays that I know of but do not partake. I might personally have others with more value and thus spend my time on them. However, I don't want to dilute the value of a fellow AP who might be working a lesser valued play because that's the best they know of. It is professionally disrespectful.
And yet I am not the one who is breaking it down mathematically!
Those who dont understand the potential wont
Those who do will see the mathematics and will regardless of me saying it has any potential
There is another game that is even more lucrative named after an animal (about as vague as I can get) and you dont see me saying the name and how it works much less the math.
So if you suddenly start seeing mathematical breakdowns of THAT game please dont be angry with me
Point the finger at the person doing the break down
EDIT: For that matter there was just an article online exposing nationally how Ocean Magic works
I must really be the most feared AP I claim to be if I have more power to destroy a move than nationally syndicated articles and online mathematical breakdowns!
Quote: darkozIs there anyone even making serious money vulturing Ocean Magic?
Seems like vulturing might earn you $50 a day if you are lucky
There is probably a better way to maximise the AP value of this game but I am not gonna discuss that here
Hope I am not "bursting anyones bubbles" hee hee hee
Some AP's won $1,000000 on Ocean Magic so a lot better than $50 a day, ;) The only catch was that it was online and apparently, the Online Casino Company/Companies are/were dragging their feet in actually paying these APs their million. :/
Quote: NathanSome AP's won $1,000000 on Ocean Magic so a lot better than $50 a day, ;) The only catch was that it was online and apparently, the Online Casino Company/Companies are/were dragging their feet in actually paying these APs their million. :/
Agreed
But that was a unique situation which lasted (for all its lucrative nature) one week!
Facts! AP's generally kill their own moves simply by doing them, then want to blame others for their loss!
And Mike doesn't make his living from AP. HE MAKES HIS LIVING DOING THIS! *See WOO. Do you see the difference between you and him?Quote: darkozAnd yet I am not the one who is breaking it down mathematically!
Those who dont understand the potential wont
Those who do will see the mathematics and will regardless of me saying it has any potential
Do you see how you just had to inform everyone just how smart you were by pointing out how you spotted other potential? Do you not see how comments like that could get other certain people to start wondering and thinking?
I get it, you entered this line of work well after the information highway had arrived and tons of people were involved. So you probably haven't noticed all the little things that actually affect you and everyone else(It's all fun and games when you don't notice or think it affects you because you have something else going on, for now). When I started there were not very many people attacking slots and VP. My wallet and I noticed even if just one extra person came along and started competing. Promotions ended sooner, progressives got locked up faster, bonus slots were less lucrative, Darksiders took notice and got information faster.
Just imagine being the first to find a new linked bonus slot game worth $700 a day and you have to all to yourself. Now, just one person shows up and they noticed you(I even wore a disguise that worked for a while, not long enough, I should ordered one of your masks https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71gvJPzWNcL._UX385_.jpg ) . Now your income drops in half. Now he tells his 5 other of his scummy looking Chinese hustler friends. Now the ploppies and casinos take notice and pulls the game out completely and their sister properties refuse to install the game.
Quote: darkozAgreed
But that was a unique situation which lasted (for all its lucrative nature) one week!
Facts! AP's generally kill their own moves simply by doing them, then want to blame others for their loss!
Facts! Nathan should stick to her own corner(It's becoming more stagnant with each passing day).
---------------------------------------------
Let's let the AP's make some money killing their own plays on their own. Let's not arm the gambling world with free information that they did nothing to earn(don't wise up chumps to AP).
No, we will never stop the flow of free information and people finding out about stuff without any effort or skill. That doesn't mean you and others have to add to the mess. I'm not saying you have been, I'm just saying.
As I said before, I won't ever get though to everyone(I think I have gotten though to some, or at least that's what I have been told) but If just a few come to the same realization and it helps prolong just a few plays, then its worth it for me to keep ranting on about it.
I drink your milkshake! I drink it up!Quote: AxelWolfAnd Mike doesn't make his living from AP. HE MAKES HIS LIVING DOING THIS! *See WOO. Do you see the difference between you and him?
Do you see how you just had to inform everyone just how smart you were by pointing out how you spotted other potential? Do you not see how comments like that could get other certain people to start wondering and thinking?
I get it, you entered this line of work well after the information highway had arrived and tons of people were involved. So you probably haven't noticed all the little things that actually affect you and everyone else(It's all fun and games when you don't notice or think it affects you because you have something else going on, for now). When I started there were not very many people attacking slots and VP. My wallet and I noticed even if just one extra person came along and started competing. Promotions ended sooner, progressives got locked up faster, bonus slots were less lucrative, Darksiders took notice and got information faster.
Just imagine being the first to find a new linked bonus slot game worth $700 a day and you have to all to yourself. Now, just one person shows up and they noticed you(I even wore a disguise that worked for a while, not long enough, I should ordered one of your masks https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71gvJPzWNcL._UX385_.jpg ) . Now your income drops in half. Now he tells his 5 other of his scummy looking Chinese hustler friends. Now the ploppies and casinos take notice and pulls the game out completely and their sister properties refuse to install the game.
That's because my milkshake is better than yours. But I have to charge.Quote: unJonI drink your milkshake!
Quote: AxelWolfAnd Mike doesn't make his living from AP. HE MAKES HIS LIVING DOING THIS! *See WOO. Do you see the difference between you and him?
Do you see how you just had to inform everyone just how smart you were by pointing out how you spotted other potential? Do you not see how comments like that could get other certain people to start wondering and thinking?
I get it, you entered this line of work well after the information highway had arrived and tons of people were involved. So you probably haven't noticed all the little things that actually affect you and everyone else(It's all fun and games when you don't notice or think it affects you because you have something else going on, for now). When I started there were not very many people attacking slots and VP. My wallet and I noticed even if just one extra person came along and started competing. Promotions ended sooner, progressives got locked up faster, bonus slots were less lucrative, Darksiders took notice and got information faster.
Just imagine being the first to find a new linked bonus slot game worth $700 a day and you have to all to yourself. Now, just one person shows up and they noticed you(I even wore a disguise that worked for a while, not long enough, I should ordered one of your masks https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71gvJPzWNcL._UX385_.jpg ) . Now your income drops in half. Now he tells his 5 other of his scummy looking Chinese hustler friends. Now the ploppies and casinos take notice and pulls the game out completely and their sister properties refuse to install the game.
You've described the nature of the Beast pretty well
The plays if they exist are going to be discovered
You all sound like parents who every generation actually believe they can keep their teenage kids from having sex and are shocked when fheir daughter's pop up pregnant
"Gee how did that happen. We kept it all a secret from her. No way she could have figured it out on her own. Other people arent doing it, are they?"
Besides arent you the one that publicly keeps saying I dont know anything? No one on this forum believes that. You just act too angry about anything I say related to AP for that to be true
Quote: WizardHere are the results for Bubble Burst mode. As expected, a guaranteed bubble is not worth as much, because the wins are halved compared to the total amount bet.
Is there any way we can get the numbers for the New Jersey OM. The two screens are no boost with (1,1) and (4,5) and boost with (1,1) and (4,4).
There was a line in the article about the play that said the players thought they had a 126% edge on the first spin which seemed outrageously high. Maybe they meant 26%.
Quote: 21formeIs there a difference with Ocean Magic Grand?
Is that the one with five rows? I just saw that game a couple days ago. Perhaps my next project.
Quote: WizardIs that the one with five rows? I just saw that game a couple days ago. Perhaps my next project.
5 reels x 6 rows + big bubbles... The Twitter chatter is that the return is lower but I've had good hits.
Here is a video.
https://youtu.be/HhWX9DdCBkg
Quote: WizardIs that the one with five rows? I just saw that game a couple days ago. Perhaps my next project.
I am about to post a project I hope you will take up
Taking some photos later. By tomorrow I will have it up
After all this, I hope it will go down as one of my most read pages. For now, it isn't linked up to the rest of the site, as I'll give my loyal WoV readers a chance to read it first.
Please have a read. I welcome all comments, questions, and corrections.
Quote: darkozI am about to post a project I hope you will take up
Taking some photos later. By tomorrow I will have it up
I hope it will be something juicy lucrative!
Quote: FrogsIn the analysis did you account for the potential bubbles you are paying for? I may have overlooked this, but I didn’t see it mentioned. Also, I think you may be overestimating the frequency/overall return of the bonus. IME the OM bonus is far more rare than other machines.
Yes, of course, I consider the possibility of more more bubbles than the guaranteed ones. As to the bonus, I went by industry norms where the bonus happens about once in 150 spins and is worth about 20-25% of the return. If I tweaked that, I doubt it would affect the strategy of when to play, as the bubbles don't affect the probability of getting the bonus.
| Row | Reel 1 | Reel 2 | Reel 3 | Reel 4 | Reel 5 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 116% | 110% | 255% | 62% | 35% |
| 2 | 179% | 202% | 545% | 96% | 38% |
| 3 | 178% | 201% | 539% | 96% | 38% |
| 4 | 111% | 104% | 249% | 59% | 34% |
Bonus return = 7.87%
Overall return = 85.46%
No bubble return = 29.74%
Here are the updated results for Bubble Burst mode.
| Row | Reel 1 | Reel 2 | Reel 3 | Reel 4 | Reel 5 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 68% | 64% | 143% | 43% | 26% |
| 2 | 103% | 114% | 295% | 67% | 29% |
| 3 | 102% | 112% | 292% | 67% | 28% |
| 4 | 66% | 61% | 138% | 42% | 25% |
Bubble from bottom probability (per reel) = 1.00%
Bubble Blast probability (per position) = 1.69%
No bubble return = 22.10%
Bonus return = 7.89%
Overall game return = 85.70%
Quote: darkozYou've described the nature of the Beast pretty well
The plays if they exist are going to be discovered
You all sound like parents who every generation actually believe they can keep their teenage kids from having sex and are shocked when fheir daughter's pop up pregnant
"Gee how did that happen. We kept it all a secret from her. No way she could have figured it out on her own. Other people arent doing it, are they?"
Besides arent you the one that publicly keeps saying I dont know anything? No one on this forum believes that. You just act too angry about anything I say related to AP for that to be true
We aren't the ones that are shocked when a play gets burnt out. We know it'll get burnt out quicker when loudmouths think it's a good idea to share anything and everything.
If you know a lot and know the value of that information, then you're gonna keep it to yourself. If you know "just enough", then that's dangerous because you don't realize its full value nor repercussions of publicly posting up plays.
Quote: RSWe aren't the ones that are shocked when a play gets burnt out. We know it'll get burnt out quicker when loudmouths think it's a good idea to share anything and everything.
If you know a lot and know the value of that information, then you're gonna keep it to yourself. If you know "just enough", then that's dangerous because you don't realize its full value nor repercussions of publicly posting up plays.
Well to quote a famous film:
"Be afraid. Be very afraid."
The Fly remake I think or was it Poltergeist?
Quote: RSWe aren't the ones that are shocked when a play gets burnt out. We know it'll get burnt out quicker when loudmouths think it's a good idea to share anything and everything.
If you know a lot and know the value of that information, then you're gonna keep it to yourself. If you know "just enough", then that's dangerous because you don't realize its full value nor repercussions of publicly posting up plays.
It’s obvious you need to “Wise Up” and get with a team that is smart enough to pass on Million Dollar weekly plays. And then link up with a team who is making enough cash to throw it in your face by asking a “Wiz” to do the math on a new potential play as a distraction to keep others from the real play.
Damn you need a mask to understand the difference between a joker wearing a mask while smoking 6 packs a day compared to formerly homeless bum miraculously transformed into being the leader of a “feared” AP team.
Way above my pay grade. Hopefully you can figure out RS, just don’t get robbed along the way.
"15. Each bubble will reveal wither 1 to 5 free games or 2 to 3 extra picks."
http://www.richardmunchkin.com/
PS , pretty amazing further developments in NJ it seems, this is good
We have to stay tuned to the Wizard on this as he has revealed the saga continues as far as NJ online gambling goes - as he says "I never cease to be amazed"
However, it seems we have a different version of the ocean magic type slots. I can find both fu ru dong hai and dragonsphere, but on both machines the orbs never stay from play to play. Instead they appear randomly and go away again after each spin.
Does anyone know if this is due to WA law requiring machines to be lottery based? And does this mean that advantage slots are effectively illegal in WA?
What's interesting is that I have found Aladdin here too, and after 8 sessions (hanging around for multiple hours each session) of which 7 was very profitable, I'm having a hard time accepting that it was just pure luck so far, but I do understand my sample size is quite small.
Any thoughts?
I've seen the OM games in class II. Bubbles randomly appearing and disappearing. If there is a way to beat those, I don't know what it is.
Quote: MukkeHowever, it seems we have a different version of the ocean magic type slots. I can find both fu ru dong hai and dragonsphere, but on both machines the orbs never stay from play to play. Instead they appear randomly and go away again after each spin.
Ocean Magic has just started appearing on UK based IGT machines under the same conditions you describe. The bubbles don't stay from one spin to the next, so there is no opportunity to vulture.
@Blackjacklad - do you AP slots in UK? Would be interested to have a chat - been doing it for 20 years.
@Wizard - thanks for posting the OM payout percentages by grid position, if you could do this for OM Grand as well that would be superb. Particular interest would be viability of low-ish spots on reel 4 when machine target % is reasonably high (e.g. 90%).
Quote: TennisRatings@Wizard - thanks for posting the OM payout percentages by grid position, if you could do this for OM Grand as well that would be superb. Particular interest would be viability of low-ish spots on reel 4 when machine target % is reasonably high (e.g. 90%).
You're welcome. That is on my "to do" list.
Quote: drwho@TennisRatings. I'm in the UK. Get in touch. I'm an AP. Been so for 40 years
You're Who?
Quote: drwhoThe Doctor :)
Just checking
I thought Who was on first base
Quote: darkozJust checking
I thought Who was on first base
It's a science fiction/time travel/crimesolving show. Been on BBC/PBS for close to 50 years. Pretty good stuff.
Quote: beachbumbabsIt's a science fiction/time travel/crimesolving show. Been on BBC/PBS for close to 50 years. Pretty good stuff.
Lol I know. Was just mixing Abbott and Costello with the BBC character.
Watched him when I was a kid
First Dr. Who episode had almost no one watching. It aired the day JFK was assassinated. BBC reran it the next week understanding why.
Dr. WHO is also the evil doctor from King Kong Escapes who builds a robot Kong. Never could figure out why( although that might just be the English dubbed version)
Quote: MukkeI've been reading about various advantage slots and tried to correlate it with what I find in the tribal casinos in washington state.
However, it seems we have a different version of the ocean magic type slots. I can find both fu ru dong hai and dragonsphere, but on both machines the orbs never stay from play to play. Instead they appear randomly and go away again after each spin.
Does anyone know if this is due to WA law requiring machines to be lottery based? And does this mean that advantage slots are effectively illegal in WA?
What's interesting is that I have found Aladdin here too, and after 8 sessions (hanging around for multiple hours each session) of which 7 was very profitable, I'm having a hard time accepting that it was just pure luck so far, but I do understand my sample size is quite small.
Any thoughts?
Yes, WA machines are random scratchoff tickets from a virtual drum. So the results of a previous game can't influence the results.
Quote: darkoz
Dr. WHO is also the evil doctor from King Kong Escapes who builds a robot Kong. Never could figure out why( although that might just be the English dubbed version)
LOL, didn't know that. In my case I'm a nice doctor and not evil at all :) (and I do have a doctorate ! )
Quote: drwhoLOL, didn't know that. In my case I'm a nice doctor and not evil at all :) (and I do have a doctorate ! )
Here is from the movie "King Kong Escapes" an evil Doctor Who.
EDIT: I am wondering if the name was originally Dr. Hu in Japanese and the US distributor said "Oh yeah, Dr. Who"
Lol
Do you know if they are allowed to have class lll? I thought I heard they were trying to get that. I don't know that it would matter much since I don't think they would put in very much as far as video poker. But perhaps they would have Video craps, roulette and BJ. I take it they don't have any of that? What about bubble craps or automatic roulette?Quote: tringlomaneYes, WA machines are random scratchoff tickets from a virtual drum. So the results of a previous game can't influence the results.
Quote: VandalayYes, it would be great if the Wizard could share a similar chart/strategy for OM grand. There are starting to be more of these and some casinos only have the grand. Thanks!
Yes we need OM grand!! Does anyone know how to play it?
