Neutrino
Neutrino
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June 9th, 2014 at 3:59:14 PM permalink
There's been a recent update (expansion) to sugar pop. new levels and a very powerful new candy added.

What I'm wondering is how this changes the game's house edge (or RTP, EV)

this candy is obviously more powerful than the average candies in that game. So it would raise the RTP right?

or is that compensated somehow by lowering the payout in the rest of the game?

Anyone notice their RTP in this game changed at all since the update?

So any of you have observed anything about this game?
teddys
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June 9th, 2014 at 4:36:40 PM permalink
Maybe they messed it up and increased the player payback by adding the new candy? I have no idea.

I know when I played it to play through a bonus on Slots.lv I got about exactly 95% back.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Neutrino
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June 9th, 2014 at 8:01:28 PM permalink
I wouldn't say they messed up if the RTP is increased because of the new candy. It's probably an insignificant amount like 0.2-0.3%
Venthus
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June 9th, 2014 at 8:53:39 PM permalink
Played it a bit on free mode earlier after seeing this post... it is FAR too entertaining to just sit here and watch. I estimate I ran about 800 spins before I had to leave and it timed out before I got back. Finished +40 spins. (...Do people use 'units' at slots?) Lucky to be up, or unlucky to be up with free money?

Edit, running record of watching it again:
200 spins, +25.36 units.
300 spins, +15.26 units.
400 spins, +21 units.
500 spins, +15 units
Neutrino
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June 10th, 2014 at 2:07:26 AM permalink
Totally not surprised. This slot constantly puts you at a profit, I suspect the house edge is lower than normal slots. Probably why it was listed in the top 3 most popular slots on Bovada for quite a while.
FinsRule
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June 10th, 2014 at 4:31:28 AM permalink
You are an AP who plays Bovada slots?
Neutrino
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June 10th, 2014 at 5:23:43 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

You are an AP who plays Bovada slots?



I plea the 5th
teddys
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June 10th, 2014 at 2:51:02 PM permalink
Hey, I did VERY well when I played through the Slots.lv bonus on Sugar Pop. Did I have an advantage? Probably not. But I got lucky.

I recommend it for anyone looking for a free roll. As Venthus said, it is a fun game.

Actually, the Wizard just reviewed and endorsed Slots.lv.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
FleaStiff
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June 10th, 2014 at 5:13:16 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule


You are an AP who plays Bovada slots?


.

Quote: Neutrino

I plea the 5th



One second: Our glorious leader once admitted to playing Bingo at a 1.0 percent player edge and recommended the game to anyone with less than ten grand to gamble with. So look only at the steak, not the sizzle.
Neutrino
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June 11th, 2014 at 1:27:32 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

Hey, I did VERY well when I played through the Slots.lv bonus on Sugar Pop. Did I have an advantage? Probably not. But I got lucky.

I recommend it for anyone looking for a free roll. As Venthus said, it is a fun game.

Actually, the Wizard just reviewed and endorsed Slots.lv.



Really? I didn't see this, when did it happen and where's the review, can you link me?
teddys
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June 11th, 2014 at 8:25:17 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

Really? I didn't see this, when did it happen and where's the review, can you link me?

https://wizardofodds.com/online-gambling/reviews/slots/
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
CRMousseau
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June 11th, 2014 at 9:24:39 PM permalink
This slot seems exceedingly popular, balancing both house profitability and player entertainment. They must have an excellent mathematician working for them.
Tomspur
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June 11th, 2014 at 11:37:10 PM permalink
Quote: CRMousseau

This slot seems exceedingly popular, balancing both house profitability and player entertainment. They must have an excellent mathematician working for them.



Even if you have to say so yourself :)
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
beachbumbabs
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June 12th, 2014 at 12:10:10 AM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

Even if you have to say so yourself :)



Well, likely variance, but possibly something about free vs. paid play, but I gave it about 200 spins after seeing this and consistently lost money. Never got above initial investment, had some small wins, ended up losing my $100 stake, but played that many spins. Played up to level 17 max-betting at .02.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Tomspur
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June 12th, 2014 at 12:16:00 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Well, likely variance, but possibly something about free vs. paid play, but I gave it about 200 spins after seeing this and consistently lost money. Never got above initial investment, had some small wins, ended up losing my $100 stake, but played that many spins. Played up to level 17 max-betting at .02.



I was inferring that he is more than likely the mathematician that they used :)

You may have gotten that but simply decided to only comment on the actual thread and not my stupid comment :)
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
beachbumbabs
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June 12th, 2014 at 12:35:15 AM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

I was inferring that he is more than likely the mathematician that they used :)

You may have gotten that but simply decided to only comment on the actual thread and not my stupid comment :)



Lol, didn't think your comment was stupid. Charles was my math guy, too, so I have a great appreciation for his work. I was, as you noticed, commenting more on the OP's experience of winning, and contrasting with my own not-so-great results.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Tomspur
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June 12th, 2014 at 12:39:41 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Lol, didn't think your comment was stupid. Charles was my math guy, too, so I have a great appreciation for his work. I was, as you noticed, commenting more on the OP's experience of winning, and contrasting with my own not-so-great results.



Got it :)
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Neutrino
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June 12th, 2014 at 5:28:51 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Well, likely variance, but possibly something about free vs. paid play, but I gave it about 200 spins after seeing this and consistently lost money. Never got above initial investment, had some small wins, ended up losing my $100 stake, but played that many spins. Played up to level 17 max-betting at .02.



This is actually something I feel worthy for a mathematical discussion, unfortunately I fear nobody has enough information to say for certain. I hope that's not true, I hope someone can bring some useful information to the table.

I feel like I *MAY* be able to explain your "bad luck" is actually just you playing the lower RTP part of the game.


First of all, how exactly does this slot work when it comes to random number generation?

Only 2 possibilities make sense:

1) The slot is pre-determined to pay off with respect to the RTP. It decides whether you should win or not, and how much you should win based on the RTP, and then generate a fake spin that matches the results. Would this be called random? I'm not sure, in my definition no this would not be called random.

2) The slot is truly random and generates each tile on the 5x5 grid with a random result. Past the initial grid setup special candies may be generated in cleared tiles.

What difference does it make, you might ask?

The difference is that if it's #2, aka truly random, then your RTP would increase as you go up the levels. This is because the higher level candies are more powerful than the lower ones. And if it's truly random, your proportion of higher level candies would be higher giving you more RTP. As someone who has more than 1.5 million points in sugar pop, I see special candies in action all the time. It's fun to watch, cotton candy is the most powerful, peanut butter is also very powerful, going down the list to the bottom is caramel candy (from level 2), it often does not even take out any other tile before disappearing.

However, if it's #1, aka rigged according to RTP, then your chances of getting higher level candies may not increase, or your regular spins will have less payout, or whatever, point is they would compensate for your more powerful candies somehow by reducing the RTP elsewhere.

Whether it's #2 or not should actually be testable, and I could think of several ways. Such as observing every initial tile setup, on every tile on the 5x5 note if the chance of each color candy is coherent with other tiles in the game. Another way is to spin enough times with a good sample size to determine the RTP of lvls 1-10, 10-20, and 20-30. If they're not the same then the game is truly random.


Anyway babs since I highly suspect it's #2, your somewhat disappointing results from lvl 1-17 could actually be justified, since if the game is truly random then during that stage of the game the RTP is lower than what it would be at the endgame.
Neutrino
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June 12th, 2014 at 5:36:37 AM permalink
I feel like I should add how are higher level candies more powerful here in case it's not well known.

Special candies score you points in 2 ways:

1) Most of them (with the exception of lollipop and peanut butter cup) will destroy some tiles, you score the sum of the points based on the point values of the tiles destroyed.

2) Since the tiles are destroyed, you will get replacement tiles and hence a chance at more winning adjacent same color tiles. A strong candy like cotton candy is almost like an additional respin since it destroys about 2/3 of the tiles.

3) In the case of peanut butter cup, no points are awarded for destroyed tiles. In the case of lolipop and peanut butter cup, the rest of the tiles will be respun.

Note: you can NOT get more than 1 special candy in any single spin. There is also a hard cap of 6000 win per spin, but I've never seen any spin even close to that. The mere existence of the hard cap hints the game is probably truly random.

Higher level candies will get you more points (money points, not progress points) simply because they will destroy more tiles. Caramel is by far the worst and often does not destroy a single tile. White chocolate often destroys only 1 tile and disappears. But as you go to the higher level ones, Chocolate will always destroy 9 tiles (it has a multiplier as well, I don't know exact), sugar cane 8, cotton candy ~15.
CRMousseau
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June 17th, 2014 at 10:00:19 PM permalink
Quote: Tomspur

Even if you have to say so yourself :)



"Though I say it, who shouldn't?" - Ralph Rackstraw, _H.M.S. Pinafore_
GWAE
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July 12th, 2014 at 12:23:21 PM permalink
Question: I am at level 30 and it asks me if I want to start over since that is the last level. I just want to stay at 30, right?
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AxelWolf
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July 12th, 2014 at 4:31:10 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Question: I am at level 30 and it asks me if I want to start over since that is the last level. I just want to stay at 30, right?



I doubt it makes any difference. all that seems to be for show. I don't think the it actually changes the % on the game(I could be wrong).

If each new candy level really added the same % as the first candy it would go above 100%. You may not want to reset it because they are adding new levels soon.

how much are you up or down on the game its self? how much per spin are you playing?

SP seems to have a very low variance. No big jackpot progressives or heavy bonus rounds.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
GWAE
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July 12th, 2014 at 4:44:51 PM permalink
I am actually up on it by about $100. I play .05 and when it is doing well I will switch to .10 for a few spins.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
AxelWolf
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July 12th, 2014 at 4:48:49 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

I am actually up on it by about $100. I play .05 and when it is doing well I will switch to .10 for a few spins.

total bet?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Neutrino
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August 10th, 2014 at 12:43:52 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I doubt it makes any difference. all that seems to be for show. I don't think the it actually changes the % on the game(I could be wrong).



Whether it makes a difference or not depends on whether the game is actually random or not. There is zero doubt later level candies are more powerful than earlier ones. Hence if the spins are actually random, the RTP on later levels would be higher. If not, then it would not matter if he reset the level or not.

I'm waiting for someone with either technical information or insider information to either confirm or deny the randomness of this slot.
AxelWolf
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August 10th, 2014 at 1:18:38 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

Whether it makes a difference or not depends on whether the game is actually random or not. There is zero doubt later level candies are more powerful than earlier ones. Hence if the spins are actually random, the RTP on later levels would be higher. If not, then it would not matter if he reset the level or not.

I'm waiting for someone with either technical information or insider information to either confirm or deny the randomness of this slot.

You can argue if they are random or not but first show me where it says the slots are random. I have not seen that claimed yet. I may have missed it. They may be random but in a different way they you are thinking they should be. Bonus round PAYOUTS don't have to be random, even in NV. Not even the frequencies.

Do you have data proving higher level candy is more powerful then other candy's?

Not just what you think they are worth according to how many tiles they change. have you gathered information on each candy bonus and ow much on average it pays when you get it. If so show your data.

Since you only start out with one candy bonus when you get tat one the bonus amount usually averages the same as the candy's in the later levels. Also the bonus round should come up far more often with more candy's available but I haven't noticed this at all.

If it dose add something it certainty is not much. Why would it even offer people to reset?

It dose not take any time at all betting to the top level betting max. Also they are going to keep adding candies and levels to keep it fresh ow is this possible if each higher level candy is wort more value. Unless they make the frequencies of all candies come up less as you level up. Me thinks this is what happens. anyways.

I would track it but I ave no intensive to do so.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
24Bingo
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August 19th, 2014 at 8:26:46 AM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

I'm waiting for someone with either technical information or insider information to either confirm or deny the randomness of this slot.



I don't think there can be any doubt it's random (I mean, really?), but it may be that on later levels the "ordinary" candies are biased toward lower scorers to make up the difference.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
AxelWolf
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August 19th, 2014 at 10:39:37 AM permalink
Quote: 24Bingo

I don't think there can be any doubt it's random (I mean, really?), but it may be that on later levels the "ordinary" candies are biased toward lower scorers to make up the difference.

It might be random as far as stopping the RNG when you press spin but everything after that is just for show, the leveling up probably makes no difference in the payback. First level pays are the same as the high lever pays.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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