Lion's Share
Not because I think I'm gonna hit it, but because it's easily the loosest slot I've played on the strip. A good way to rake up those MLife points.
I think the same about the Sigma Derby.
Quote: MrVJust wondering if the progressive jackpot on the last remaining Lion's Share slot at MGM is still unclaimed?
I just called and spoke to Maureen in High Limit Slots who assures me that the Lion's Share slot machine has not yet hit.
I wouldn't play it, though, it's waiting for me to get there should I ever come to Vegas, so you'll probably lose money...j/k
Maureen was very nice, by the way. She was extremely cheerful, upbeat and knew which machine I was referring to immediately.
Quote: BozIt is only a matter of time until this breaks and they cannot get parts. I play it every time I visit, if I can get on it.
I think the same about the Sigma Derby.
Last time I was there it was having a hell of a time accepting a lot of my bills. Apparently they haven't (are unable to?) updated the bill reader. In the end I guess that ended up saving me money...
Quote: ams288Last time I was there it was having a hell of a time accepting a lot of my bills. Apparently they haven't (are unable to?) updated the bill reader. In the end I guess that ended up saving me money...
MGM should have a stash of old currency just for that machine it sounds like. :)
And when it hits, do you think they'll get rid of the dinosaur?
I'm sure they'll get rid of it. No casino wants a slot that requires an employee to pay out winnings (which Lion's Share does).Quote: tringlomaneAnd when it hits, do you think they'll get rid of the dinosaur?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhat is the max bet on this machine?
Max bet is: 3 X $1 = $3
Quote: tringlomaneMGM should have a stash of old currency just for that machine it sounds like. :)
And when it hits, do you think they'll get rid of the dinosaur?
It's only there as they have to pay out the jackpot to conform to the Gaming Board regs.
As soon as it hits, that thing will be wheeled away.
Quote: ams288Still unclaimed. I play this slot every time I go to Vegas.
Not because I think I'm gonna hit it, but because it's easily the loosest slot I've played on the strip. A good way to rake up those MLife points.
This doesn't surprise me as "casino win" on dollar slots has increased a few percentage points in the last ten years. It's very possible they've never adjusted the payout of that slot.
http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/2012/8/9/185912/9223/vegas-travel/About+That+Two+Million+Dollar+Jackpot+Slot+That%27s+Due+To+Hit+Soon
Quote:
If you win, you get to keep the machine. The whole machine.
Talk about the ultimate souvenir of a huge win!!!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWait. The article doesn't say that you get to keep the machine. You took the quote completely out of context. Ever thought of working on political campaigns?
I did? That's what it said under the picture of the Three-Bars near miss. It said, "Rumors, maybe facts," so I said, "I don't know if this is true or not." I'll call them again a bit later and ask.
Quote: Mission146I did? That's what it said under the picture of the Three-Bars near miss. It said, "Rumors, maybe facts," so I said, "I don't know if this is true or not." I'll call them again a bit later and ask.
Exactly. It is a rumor, or possibly a fact. They also have contradicting statements in there (the machine is loose; the machine is tight), so obviously not all the statements are true.
So, we can conclude that you do or don't get to keep the machine. Which we knew before :)
But if this thing is still around my next trip, screw it, I'll play for at least 10 max wagers. I'll just have to remember to bring $30 in singles apparently.
<--- big gambler
The machine will be deactivated (as we know) if it hits, thus, I imagine if it is nothing but a machine upon which a wager cannot actually be made, an individual could legally take it into his/her possession.
In any event, Cinda is also very knowledgeable and friendly, in a sample size of two, I'm going to say that they have an excellent staff there. She was very friendly, asked me if I'd be coming to Vegas, wished me luck...etc.
To get to the point, that the winner retains the machine is a commonly-held rumor amongst employees and patrons alike, with most employees believing that to be the case. She told me that she would address the matter in pre-shift tomorrow to get a definitive answer and gave me the hours during which I could speak to her, personally, tomorrow. Hopefully, we will have a definite answer tomorrow.
Really, it makes sense. The money that has funded the progressives isn't really the casino's money; they are just holding it until someone hits it. Taking it out before it hits would be pretty unfair.
But... what about machines with multiple progressives, like the QuickHits machines. SOME of the progressives will always be increased from the base, and not hit. Even when someone hits the large 9QH jackpot, the 8QH and below may be quite large. What does the casino have to do to remove one of those?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI have a question about this "can't remove a machine until the jackpot hits" rule.
Really, it makes sense. The money that has funded the progressives isn't really the casino's money; they are just holding it until someone hits it. Taking it out before it hits would be pretty unfair.
But... what about machines with multiple progressives, like the QuickHits machines. SOME of the progressives will always be increased from the base, and not hit. Even when someone hits the large 9QH jackpot, the 8QH and below may be quite large. What does the casino have to do to remove one of those?
There may be an option on the machine to stop the meter increase; this is a complete guess, however.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI have a question about this "can't remove a machine until the jackpot hits" rule.
Really, it makes sense. The money that has funded the progressives isn't really the casino's money; they are just holding it until someone hits it. Taking it out before it hits would be pretty unfair.
But... what about machines with multiple progressives, like the QuickHits machines. SOME of the progressives will always be increased from the base, and not hit. Even when someone hits the large 9QH jackpot, the 8QH and below may be quite large. What does the casino have to do to remove one of those?
According to this:
Quote:Regulation 5.110 of the Nevada Gaming Commission, in effect during 1972-73, provided that no payoff indicator on a progressive machine may be turned back, except when the jackpot is won; and if it reaches a limit, that amount must be retained until it is won; the rate of progression cannot be changed until there is a winner. During the taxable year ending June 30, 1973, the Nevada Gaming Commission had no restrictions on the transferability of the accrued but unpaid progressive slot machine liability on one progressive slot machine to another progressive slot machine.
It will take further research, but it seems possible that they can simply move it. However, they've not moved it for Lion's Share, so I will continue to look into it.
LOOKED INTO IT:
Pursuant to Page 14 from the Nevada Gaming Laws, Section 5.110:
http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=256
1.) The first thing they can do is cap the Progressive to its current level or any amount greater.
or:
Quote:c. The licensee distributes the entire incremental amount to another single progressive payoff schedule on similar game(s) or machine(s) at the licensee's establishment and:
1.) Documents the distribution.
2.) (PARAPHRASED-CANNOT COPY/PASTE) The licensee cannot move it to a machine requiring a higher bet, unless the licensee were to increase the amount being re-distributed accordingly with the increase to the wager.
A simple example would be a machine at $200 over the Base at $2.00 a pull, you could move the amount to a machine that is $2.50 a pull, but you'd have to add $250 to the new machine's Progressive Meter.
3.) (PARAPHRASE) Must still comply with minimum theoretical payout laws.
4.) (PARAPHRASE) Must be done within thirty days.
LION'S SHARE
This is speculation, but since Lion's Share is the only machine upon which someone can hit a Progressive of that size and receive an immediate check for the amount, pursuant to Nevada/Federal Law (?), they cannot simply move the Progressive because the machines now must comply with the new law.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWell, if it is a fact, let me know. I want that machine! Oh, yeah, 2 mil would be nice too.
Greetings!
I am pleased to report that I spoke to Leah in High-Limit Slots, and after some initial confusion that was my fault (I spoke to Linda yesterday, not Cinda, as I thought---bad cell connection) and it is a FACT that the machine will be deactivated and the machine's final winner will retain the machine!
Again, what a souvenir!
Leah was just as charming, friendly and knowledgable as Linda. She also wished me good luck in all of my gambling exploits!
Quote: Mission146Greetings!
I am pleased to report that I spoke to Leah in High-Limit Slots, and after some initial confusion that was my fault (I spoke to Linda yesterday, not Cinda, as I thought---bad cell connection) and it is a FACT that the machine will be deactivated and the machine's final winner will retain the machine!
Again, what a souvenir!
Leah was just as charming, friendly and knowledgable as Linda. She also wished me good luck in all of my gambling exploits!
Ok, then, if you want it, you'd better get over there. If it's still there over Super Bowl weekend I'll be bringing it home.
Quote: AxiomOfChoice
Ok, then, if you want it, you'd better get over there. If it's still there over Super Bowl weekend I'll be bringing it home.
I don't know that I will ever be in Vegas, so I hope you do! Happy Variance!
I agree. There must be some reason they have not moved it/capped it by now. When Lady Luck went out of business, all their progressives were transferred to the video poker machines at the bar next door (same owners). It was a very lucrative game for a while.Quote: Mission146LION'S SHARE
This is speculation, but since Lion's Share is the only machine upon which someone can hit a Progressive of that size and receive an immediate check for the amount, pursuant to Nevada/Federal Law (?), they cannot simply move the Progressive because the machines now must comply with the new law.
There are also some very high progressives at Circus Circus -- mostly capped. I'm ashamed to admit at threw a few dollars at them last time I was there. The Sequential Royal on the A+8 video poker also gets very high sometimes.
Quote: ams288Last time I was there it was having a hell of a time accepting a lot of my bills. Apparently they haven't (are unable to?) updated the bill reader. In the end I guess that ended up saving me money...
I hope the machine has TITO. If that is the case, load up your TITOs ahead of time and makes the accounting much easier.
Nope. The reader will accept bills but not tickets. And all winnings are paid manually by a live person.Quote: Ardent1I hope the machine has TITO. If that is the case, load up your TITOs ahead of time and makes the accounting much easier.
Quote: 1arrowheaddrWhat did the progressive start at? When was it last hit?
I thought that it had not hit since it was installed in the 90's (maybe when the MGM opened? That was '95, right?)
This might be wrong; someone please correct me if it is.
I guess the short answer is, Hell if I know!
Quote: Mission146I can't find what it started at, but if we assume the payout structure (with exception to the Progressive) is perfectly-graduated, then it would be $75,000. However, we notice that the Three Lion's Share symbols in any position jump from 1k to 10k when you get to that Max Bet, so if the Lion's Share followed that structure, you'd be looking at $500,000 as a base on that Progressive.
I guess the short answer is, Hell if I know!
So.. do you think it's +EV yet?
I'm guessing no, because, if it was, MGM would (or at least, should) be advertising that fact like crazy.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo.. do you think it's +EV yet?
I'm guessing no, because, if it was, MGM would (or at least, should) be advertising that fact like crazy.
I called the MGM Grand and spoke to Cheryl (Sheryl?) who did not immediately know the answer to my question, but was very kind and got an answer returning to me promptly. She even asked if I would prefer to hold or have her call me back.
In any event, my speculations were way off as the base amount for that Progressive was 1M.
It was either the previously linked article (or another I read) that said the HE with each Max Bet pull is between -800% to -1500%, but that seems like over-shooting it, to me.
I personally think that it would be at +EV at this point, but since I have no idea of ANY probabilities of that machine, that's just a pure guess based on the fact that the Progressive is at nearly 3x its starting point. If it still lives while you are there, and you can determine how much of every bet goes into the Progressive, then we can probably get a general idea based on that combined with a jurisdictional minimum return of 75%. We know the return is better than 75%, however, because that must also account for people who may not Max Bet, and even the Base Pays are not perfectly graduated. We could use 75% though (even including the Progressive increase as part of the 75%) to get a worst-case scenario.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo.. do you think it's +EV yet?
I'm guessing no, because, if it was, MGM would (or at least, should) be advertising that fact like crazy.
It might be. Depends on how many virtual stops each reel has. It's definitely +EV if there are only 128 stops each (probably unlikely). Much more likely, if there are 256 virtual stops per reel (1 in 16.78 million if only 1 virtual stop is allotted per reel), it is dependent on how well the base game pays to determine if it's +EV. With 256 virtual stops per reel and a jackpot probability of 1 in 16.78M, the jackpot is worth 4.52% of the return.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo.. do you think it's +EV yet?
I'm guessing no, because, if it was, MGM would (or at least, should) be advertising that fact like crazy.
And I agree with this because they are forced to have it on the floor! They want to get it the hell out of there as fast as they can!
The only problem is that it would take A LOT of spins to be able to differentiate between 1/128 and 1/256, an I don't plan to play THAT much.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI would be willing to try to deconstruct it while playing, but I am not willing to risk getting caught with a camera. So, I don't know... I guess I could use the pen and notebook method (I actually saw someone doing that at one of the "empire" slot machines in the MGMG during my last trip. I tried to watch him subtly. He noticed me watching after about 30 seconds, so I moved on. If that was someone on this list, sorry, I was not trying to draw attention to you)
The only problem is that it would take A LOT of spins to be able to differentiate between 1/128 and 1/256, an I don't plan to play THAT much.
Yeah, I can guarantee at least one of the reels is greater than 128 virtual stops, otherwise the game is massively +EV. The amount of spins needed for a representative sample is way too much to ask at $3 spin, imo. You will probably need 1000+ spins minimum.
If anyone wants more detail, pursuant to the PM confidentiality rule, I will give them more details. I'm not discussing it publicly. Nothing serious happened, and no AP lawsuit, I'm afraid, it's just that I am still welcome at that casino and the story (if anyone from that casino were to read it) pretty much means they could guess who told the story with about a 100% chance of being right.
Quote: Mission146They are not huge fans of the ones stealing proprietary information, though...they were just fine with me, "Thinking I had a system."
It's a bit of a stretch to say you were stealing proprietary info, you still have to deconstruct the slot machine correctly and correctly do the payout math. Easier said than done.
Quote: tringlomaneIt's a bit of a stretch to say you were stealing proprietary info, you still have to deconstruct the slot machine correctly and correctly do the payout math. Easier said than done.
I should have put that in quotation marks, you're correct, those were very similar to the words used by Staff to describe what I was doing.
I didn't even know that! I can't believe they quoted me.
See, I sent them an E-Mail, but I never actually got a response to the E-Mail, so I just figured that nobody really cared about the rumor anymore.
Thanks, BigFoot66!
Quote: bigfoot66Anyone mention that a certain WoV member was quoted on this topic over at www.VegasChatter.com ? :)
http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/2013/1/7/211356/7765/vegas-travel/Win+The+Lion%27s+Share+And+Win+It+All
dont see Missions name anywhere?
Quote: Mission146They used my first name and last initial towards the bottom of the article. BigFoot66 has spoken to me via PM before, which is why he knew what my first name and last initial are, as I sign almost all PM's with same.
ahhh...
also, the article says the machine has NEVER been hit since installed in the 1990s.
if the jackpot started at $1M and is now at $2.3M, then that's one SLOW progressive!
Quote: 100xOddsahhh...
also, the article says the machine has NEVER been hit since installed in the 1990s.
if the jackpot started at $1M and is now at $2.3M, then that's one SLOW progressive!
Has it been relegated to just hand pays since they converted to TITO? This also would cause people to lose interest in playing it. It might be slow, but there were originally only 4 units, and now there is only 1. Is there any non-network slot jackpot that is over $1M anywhere else in the world?
