Wizard
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December 15th, 2017 at 6:57:41 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Wizard, what are the conditions required to win this jackpot?



Looks like aces full of jacks beaten by a four of a kind or higher. I see no rule that says both hole cards must be used in both hands, which is a common requirement for such jackpots.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
NokTang
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December 15th, 2017 at 7:46:48 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


If I have what could be a qualifying winning or losing hand, and it looks possible somebody else does too, with $120,000 on the line, without this rule I would want to make sure this person doesn't fold.




As I think was mentioned, we don't know if only two players or more...and that matters.

If only two, both now holding straight flush's after? the river card is dealt, collusion is obviously going to be suspected and in fact tried. The person showing his hand is the SF by definition is telling the other player(s) half the needed situation is met. Even saying it orally would IMHO suffice, but that would allow for a bluff.
sabre
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December 15th, 2017 at 9:48:03 AM permalink
Anyone in this thread who said any variation of "well those are the rules" is wrong.
tringlomane
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December 15th, 2017 at 10:40:57 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quads over quads here at MotorCity Casino is currently $1,010,380.45.

https://www.motorcitycasino.com/PokerRoom.aspx?Page=BadBeat



That's insane. Is the jackpot drop $2 or something? Ppl went nuts in St. Louis when it got to $400k once.
Ibeatyouraces
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December 15th, 2017 at 10:53:46 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

That's insane. Is the jackpot drop $2 or something? Ppl went nuts in St. Louis when it got to $400k once.


No idea. I remember when I started playing there in 05 when they only had the one BB and the requirements were only Aces full of tens or better beaten by quads or better with both hole cards having to play. If it got to $50,000+ there'd be a couple hours wait just to get on a game. That was also back during the poker boom too though.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
apples
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December 15th, 2017 at 11:40:55 AM permalink
I have played bbj's before. Hit a few at the Sahara since it was the easiest in Vegas. Every player knows your not allowed to talk about it but players always work around it telling the players not to fold and put in a few more chips to be eligible. I never seen hands tabled like this but showing neighbors your cards is normal. Stations can be difficult when they want to be. I know I wouldn't want to be involved in the ruling because I think the Casino has the advantage in this circumstance. I hope the players get paid just to keep the poker players happy. We all know the players never win since the rake, dealers and waitress never lose.
Zcore13
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December 15th, 2017 at 12:22:38 PM permalink
Quote: apples

We all know the players never win since the rake, dealers and waitress never lose.



That's not true. I'm positive playing poker over my lifetime. It's not like playing against the house in other games.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Romes
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December 15th, 2017 at 12:33:53 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

That's not true. I'm positive playing poker over my lifetime. It's not like playing against the house in other games.


ZCore13

Agreed.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Keyser
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December 15th, 2017 at 12:41:09 PM permalink
When a dispute like this one takes place it's import to contact news reporters. Reporters will contact the casino, asking them to state their position on a dispute. This pressure on the casino is important if you want the casino to settle a dispute quickly rather than appealing a dispute. Social media is also valuable. Ensure that the names of the casino and management are included in reports and posts.
Wizard
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December 15th, 2017 at 12:54:22 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Agreed.



Not to say you're not being truthful, as I'm sure you are (being very careful my posts don't offend anyone), but I've never met anyone, other than myself, who claims to be a lifetime loser in raked poker.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
PokerGrinder
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December 15th, 2017 at 1:16:50 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Agreed.


I call bulls*it, there is no way this fishy is a winning player! Mods isn’t there a rule against blatant lies? Can we get at least a 3 day suspension for this “Romes” character if that even is his real name!
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
Zcore13
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December 15th, 2017 at 1:20:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Not to say you're not being truthful, as I'm sure you are (being very careful my posts don't offend anyone), but I've never met anyone, other than myself, who claims to be a lifetime loser in raked poker.



A $5 rake is nothing in a medium to high spread game or No Limit game.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
IcheckraiseU
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December 15th, 2017 at 1:59:05 PM permalink
Quote: apples

We all know the players never win since the rake, dealers and waitress never lose.



I got the joke even if everyone else took it very serious! This might of been a bad attempt at humor but I get it.

Quote: Wizard

Not to say you're not being truthful, as I'm sure you are (being very careful my posts don't offend anyone), but I've never met anyone, other than myself, who claims to be a lifetime loser in raked poker.



I agree with you when it comes to Live Tables. I never heard anyone claim they are a losing player overall. Since internet poker and tracking it is clear that many players are winning and winning millions. I would think that for every true winning player you will have thousands in the red.

Quote: Zcore13

That's not true. I'm positive playing poker over my lifetime. It's not like playing against the house in other games.


ZCore13



In my mind it is clear that Apples was making some attempt at humor. I think he was saying that the players in general have no chance with all the money that is raked. I would think he knows that some players win in the game "lifetime" but he might of been trying to explain that it is very difficult?

I agree that it isn't exactly the same and can be worse since the house wins on almost every single hand. In those games where they rake up front it gets really ugly. In the old days the "Snatch Games" were fun. I am sure you could beat those as well?
CrownMGD
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December 15th, 2017 at 3:23:48 PM permalink
Who is responsible for every dollar raked to these Mega Jackpots? These are the Jackpots that are property wide? Does this mean that every Stations Casino in Vegas collects the Rake for this Mega Jackpot? I have heard players and employees tell stories of arrests being made in Poker Rooms because of misappropriation of funds. Has Stations Casino Poker Rooms every been guilty of such? I heard a story long ago about Managers doing something illegal with drawings and car give aways. The story was that the drawing was rigged and the players who won the car or cars already knew they would be called. Is this true and do these things still happen these days with all the protection?
TomG
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December 16th, 2017 at 11:50:25 AM permalink
The "Rules are rules" argument doesn't hold much weight. If Stations never or rarely enforces this rule in any other situation, that would mean it is only in place for them to withhold paying
BTLWI
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December 16th, 2017 at 5:51:00 PM permalink
1600 Hours of poker since I got a smart phone.

[Un?]fortunately machines have given a higher hourly this year so I've only put in 700 hours of poker in 2017. Horizontal axis is session count.




The logic behind not allowing communication is simple. You could extrapolate it to an entire table where all players turn their hands face up preflop and only continue to a flop if 2+ coordinated BBJ hands are available. That is communication that clearly influences action.

If casinos really wanted mega BBJ they would just make the qualifier TTTT beaten and never reduce that.
FleaStiff
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December 17th, 2017 at 5:30:06 AM permalink
Looks like a bot chart to me.

Can you post the charts for your fellow players who provided all that money to you?
Rigondeaux
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December 17th, 2017 at 2:18:43 PM permalink
No idea who that guy is or if that's real. Could just be running insanely good. It happens.

But the Wizard's point stands. Most poker players (and sports players) seem to wildly overestimate their winnings. Even if they track them, they still seem to find ways. Losing players are extremely hard to find. Some break even. Some are small winners. Some are winning 3 buy ins every single night. Hard to say where it all comes from.

I always think of this guy who does some training videos and they are good videos and seems like a nice guy. But he says he makes $120/hr or something like that.

Then he digresses about the process of buying his first home, in his mid thirties. Doesn't dress nice, in fact claims to be frugal. doesn't seem the type to have a massive cocaine habit or something.

Bud, what happened to the quarter mil a year you have been making in cash all this time? Guy must have an awesome collection of garbage pail kids.
Hunterhill
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December 17th, 2017 at 2:34:35 PM permalink
I agree with some of this,but judging by the way someone dresses doesn't cut it.
I know multiple Ap's with 7 figure bankrolls but they dress like bums.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
Rigondeaux
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December 17th, 2017 at 3:17:38 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

I agree with some of this,but judging by the way someone dresses doesn't cut it.
I know multiple Ap's with 7 figure bankrolls but they dress like bums.



Yeah I know. Clothes/flashy lifestyle are just one thing he isn't spending on. It's possible the guy has a safe with over a million in cash somewhere and would rather keep it there than use it to buy real estate. Or he lost a ton in stocks or something, without ever making the most obvious investment of buying a home. Lots of possibilities. But he is a relatively normal guy, talkign about buying what sounds like a normal house for the first time with his fiance and says he has been making over a $100/hr in cash throughout his 20s and 30s.

Most likely answer is, he hasn't really made that much. He decided that those really bad downswings didn't count because he wasn't on his game, or whatever. He actually makes $120/hr on Friday and Sat night, when playing well, etc.

Was just perusing twoplustwo where a guy, who had some good pointers to give, claimed he was making 16bb/hr at 1/3. If he underreports that on his taxes, that's a de facto six figure income. Assuming he is not some uniquely gifted genius, it's pretty odd that there aren't a lot of other intelligent people quitting their jobs to go make six figures at 1/3. Or, say, adjuct math professors picking up a mere $35k a year or whatever on the side.

Heard it all for years.

Most of the time, it just doesn't add up, for various reasons. Lifestyle is one of them. This guy Limon, who was on GWAE a couple times, put it pretty well when some online pros claimed they were making like $400/hr at Commerce. "Cool! So, can I see your yacht?"

Of course, some people really do make good money playing poker. I totally believe that Phil Galfand and guys like that have become multi-millionaires just from poker. But I think it's more often exaggerated (also, cases of survivorship bias), from losers thinking they are break even, to guys who make $50/hr thinking they make $120/hr and all the way to the top.
gamerfreak
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December 17th, 2017 at 3:39:59 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Heard it all for years.

Most of the time, it just doesn't add up, for various reasons. Lifestyle is one of them. This guy Limon, who was on GWAE a couple times, put it pretty well when some online pros claimed they were making like $400/hr at Commerce. "Cool! So, can I see your yacht?"


A lot of times people who claim to make some crazy hourly figure fail to mention how many hours they are actually getting that on a regular basis.

There's times where I'm sure I theoretically earn $150/hr+ with my business, but I'm certainly not getting 40 of those hours in every week.
Rigondeaux
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December 17th, 2017 at 4:08:41 PM permalink
Sure. And I think with poker players, they are being intentionally misleading.

In AP you might say a play is worth X an hour, and it's a little clearer what you mean. Though that rarely accounts for all the hours actually invested.

Someone who says they make $120/hr playing poker and is a full time player, to me is saying that is their average income. A poker player who can make $120 only between 1-3am friday night on labor day weekend, doesn't "make 120/hr" any more than you make 150/hr or a lawyer with one big client they overbill makes 250/hr.
billryan
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December 17th, 2017 at 5:34:20 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser

When a dispute like this one takes place it's import to contact news reporters. Reporters will contact the casino, asking them to state their position on a dispute. This pressure on the casino is important if you want the casino to settle a dispute quickly rather than appealing a dispute. Social media is also valuable. Ensure that the names of the casino and management are included in reports and posts.



I imagine the newspaper being owned by the casinos competition can't hurt.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Ibeatyouraces
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December 17th, 2017 at 6:28:29 PM permalink
My biggest pet peeve about "professional poker players" is the "career earning" figure. Most "top pros" are free rolling thanks to their sponsors.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
beachmonkey
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December 17th, 2017 at 6:49:31 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

My biggest pet peeve about "professional poker players" is the "career earning" figure. Most "top pros" are free rolling thanks to their sponsors.


You know it’s just a strategy to put a possible opponent ( you) in the future game you may or not play together to have a small doubt in your mind as to your self worth or abilities in playing against such a high (sic) career earnings figures player. Tilting played forward. I’m sure you have heard in sports commentary that this play x has no fear re play z in opposition team.
I usually talk that person up ( top pros) and really over inflate the ego for them , blindsided them played forward. You be comfortable with your earnings as it’s only your head on your body that hits the pillow at night . Let them lie to you and other as much as they like. Encourage them and you will succeed. Blind side .
Kind regards
Rigondeaux
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beachmonkey
December 17th, 2017 at 6:59:22 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

My biggest pet peeve about "professional poker players" is the "career earning" figure. Most "top pros" are free rolling thanks to their sponsors.



Even then, they don't count the stake.

Bt WSOP accounting if you bet 100 at even money on 10 nfl games and won 2, you would have made a profit of 400.
billryan
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December 17th, 2017 at 7:03:53 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Even then, they don't count the stake.

Bt WSOP accounting if you bet 100 at even money on 10 nfl games and won 2, you would have made a profit of 400.




Not really, you'd have career earnings of $400. Might even call them "winnings", but certainly would not call it a $400 profit.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
beachmonkey
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December 17th, 2017 at 7:31:39 PM permalink
I know this not a poker thread per say , and I’m sorry if this sends the thread sideways. But I will anyway. Re this thing about misleading information re poker earnings. A little event years ago, I was perhaps a bit more abrasive than usual. I’m at a poker table $500 buy in. Mid afternoon. People are arriving for the usual Wednesday night tournament, they play cash games first ( I love them really) ( I really really do ) I m almost wetting myself now with how much I love them. Sorry . I’m sure many of you vultures understand.
They are mostly arriving that day with the bracelets, the little plastic or metal slabs with tournament winner etc . After awhile I ask as one must always ask how they won it etc they tell you pair of deuces etc. reveal game play etc
The ego saws ,they win a couple pots , I fold nice hands to them, the heads are too big overinflated. I pull out a clean tampon and put it on the table next to my stack. You know unwrap and fluff it up. Pretty much cuts conversations right out. After a while couple of hands I say to one of them do you know what this is ? I say it’s my bracelet, it’s my tournament winning trophy you know I’m a tournament winning c##t and my trophy is so useful I can use it. Talk about tilting, shocked faces on these poor folks we took their cash . By the way I did get a bit of a chat to clean it up from the pit boss. The other regulars loved it.
As just something to combat the opponent perceived notion that display of a bracelets will make their opponent tremble before them and the skill the obviously have. Yeah right. Play yar tournament lie to yar mates blar blar blar.
It takes more than that to cut it at poker, but do encourage your opponent to think they are better than they are as that is the biggest pot to be won.
Kind regards
P. s I did win the trophy for being a certified c##t I must confess. Oh them where the days. haha
Merry Christmas. Favourite time of year.
FleaStiff
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December 22nd, 2017 at 1:47:21 AM permalink
Bad Beat Jackpot in Detroit's Motor City Casino is over the one million dollar mark.

And an online bad beat jackpot is at half a million.
Last edited by: FleaStiff on Dec 22, 2017
DrawingDead
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December 22nd, 2017 at 3:56:10 AM permalink
Personally I'm not a big fan of Station Casinos compared to most of their competition, and I generally prefer to take my business to others. In fact I had a tiresome dispute with their central office drones several years ago that I eventually won ONLY because I'm obsessive about record keeping in casinos, and was able to document everything about the matter six ways to Sunday. But.

Yesterday I had an extended & quite detailed conversation with an individual who was at that table (and dealt into the hand) at Red Rock when this occurred in front of her. FWIW, I am personally 100% confident in the accuracy of this person's detailed account of what happened. Some highly relevant facts:

1. They were NOT head-up in the pot when the stupid Hollywooding douchebag exposed his hand to the table. At that moment it was a FOUR-WAY contest for the pot with three other players still in the hand.

2. The impulsive imbecile was all-in at that point, but there was still significant action yet to be taken among the others who all had major decisions yet to be made, with sizeable chip stacks to potentially be put in play among them.

3. It was a no-limit game.

4 They were not even on the river when he deliberately displayed his hand during multi-player action. Amazingly, the narcissistic spaz actually did his sleazy thing with action still pending from multiple players ON THE TURN.

5. Of course it was hit and paid out shortly after, as anyone who actually knows a damn thing about how the Station multi-property BBJ really works would already have guessed. Two days later it was hit at Sunset Station, resulting in payouts for the entire amount of the accumulated rigidly segregated promo drop to all players at all tables in all their poker rooms in all their properties at that time.

6. If the ongoing dispute eventually gets decided in the childish idiot's favor, Station Casinos will be on the hook for paying out the BBJ twice, including a retroactive payout to all players who were in games at all their properties' poker rooms when the incident of the sleazy moron screwing up the play of a hand occurred. And yes, they most definitely DO have a record of each and every potentially affected player, just as they would if it was paid at that time. If that ends up being the result, they will have to pay a little more than about $150,000.00 in total out of company funds into the promo account which normally has NOTHING TO DO with any of the house rake or any other casino funds and is not ordinarily allowed to be commingled in any way at all, as required by State law, by NV Gaming regulation, and continuous auditing by Gaming Enforcement.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
FleaStiff
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December 22nd, 2017 at 4:35:08 AM permalink
So the question remains: was it ignorance or drunkenness or ?????? ?
DrawingDead
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December 22nd, 2017 at 5:17:08 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

So the question remains: was it ignorance or drunkenness or ?????? ?

I believe the most likely explanation is it that it is yet another common everyday garden variety confirmation of the fact that a small but persistent subset of the Las Vegas area poker rooms, sports books, and casinos "local" regulars are actually thinly disguised alien beings with an inadequate awareness and poorly developed ability to mimic the normal expectations for behavior of the human species they encounter here on Earth, after they landed near Groom Lake decades ago, and upon alighting from their saucers superficially morphed into the form of the first indigenous life form and habitat they encountered.

Which, unfortunately, was a dingy pukey grind joint "casino" on the edge of Pahrump patronized mostly by meth tweakers & recent parolees from the Nevada State institution for the criminally insane. Most average normal type local folk informally know this, and it is, after all, the most simple straightforward explanation that fits the facts of the matter at hand.

See also, the documentary:

Last edited by: DrawingDead on Dec 22, 2017
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
NokTang
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December 25th, 2017 at 7:21:39 PM permalink
What was the ruling and what happened in this saga? Thanks and Happy Holidays.
djatc
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December 25th, 2017 at 9:03:11 PM permalink
youse guys are all noobs I make $500/hr on poker.

DISCLAIMER: ON VIDEO POKER

DISCLAIMER: ON A PROGRESSIVE

DISCLAIMER: WITH MAILERS

DISCLAIMER: NOT COUNTING LOSSES THAT EXCEED EV

DISCLAIMER: A COUPLE OF HOURS SOMETIMES IN A MONTH

DISCLAIMER: COUNTING DRINKS AS RETAIL COST

DISCLAIMER: I PLAY 3 MACHINES AT ONCE

DISCLAIMER: WHILE BETTING FOOTBALL GAMES
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Romes
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December 25th, 2017 at 11:15:45 PM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

I call bulls*it, there is no way this fishy is a winning player! Mods isn’t there a rule against blatant lies? Can we get at least a 3 day suspension for this “Romes” character if that even is his real name!

lol guess I should have "proved" myself and played Axel for some high limit heads up! Now I just look like a fish!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AxelWolf
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December 26th, 2017 at 9:45:27 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

lol guess I should have "proved" myself and played Axel for some high limit heads up! Now I just look like a fish!

From what I heard the only heads up you like to play in Vegas involves a Filipino ladyboy.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
speedycrap
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December 26th, 2017 at 12:29:50 PM permalink
I think it is basically some form of collusion. This time those people got burnt.
DJTeddyBear
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January 11th, 2018 at 2:40:48 PM permalink
This still hasn’t been resolved, but here’s an update...

https://www.cdcgamingreports.com/gaming-control-board-returns-bad-beat-jackpot-dispute-to-hearing-officer/
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MidwestAP
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January 11th, 2018 at 3:23:09 PM permalink
Thanks for the update DJTB!
Wizard
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January 11th, 2018 at 3:44:13 PM permalink
I'll lay 2 to 1 Stations wins. Any takers?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
speedycrap
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January 11th, 2018 at 4:03:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'll lay 2 to 1 Stations wins. Any takers?

I will put up $20 for the players. Strange things happen in these situations.
Wizard
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January 12th, 2018 at 10:15:16 AM permalink
Quote: speedycrap

I will put up $20 for the players. Strange things happen in these situations.



So you're betting $20 on the players to ultimately win $40, do we have an agreement? Bet will be resolved at the highest level of Gaming.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
speedycrap
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January 12th, 2018 at 1:52:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

So you're betting $20 on the players to ultimately win $40, do we have an agreement? Bet will be resolved at the highest level of Gaming.

Yes, I am betting USD $20 to win USD $40 for the players EVENTUALLY collect their BBJ. Deal ????
speedycrap
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January 12th, 2018 at 1:53:32 PM permalink
Beating and collecting from Wizard will be a highlight on my tombstone.
GWAE
GWAE
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January 12th, 2018 at 3:37:57 PM permalink
Quote: speedycrap

Yes, I am betting USD $20 to win USD $40 for the players EVENTUALLY collect their BBJ. Deal ????



Probably shouldn't speak for the wizard but he said highest level of gaming. I believe the article said it could go to regular court as an appeal. So gaming could say no and wizard wins but they can appeal to regular court and win the jackpot but I think wizard still wins the bet.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
speedycrap
speedycrap
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Joined: Oct 13, 2013
January 12th, 2018 at 3:45:10 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Probably shouldn't speak for the wizard but he said highest level of gaming. I believe the article said it could go to regular court as an appeal. So gaming could say no and wizard wins but they can appeal to regular court and win the jackpot but I think wizard still wins the bet.

So our bet is within Gaming Control Board ONLY?????
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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Joined: May 21, 2013
January 12th, 2018 at 7:20:29 PM permalink
Quote: speedycrap

So our bet is within Gaming Control Board ONLY?????



You and wizard dId not give the same terms. You said "collect their bbj money ". He said "gaming authority" decision. Probably need to straighten those terms.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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January 12th, 2018 at 8:35:43 PM permalink
I've lost track of the details but as I recall it was a rather major gaff that the errant player performed and Stations probably made a decision they didn't really want to make but had to. Despite annoying a lot of players and making a lot of undesired headlines, it appears it was the right thing to do and I'm sure the gaming board types will support the casino's decision.
Romes
Romes
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January 12th, 2018 at 11:58:56 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

From what I heard the only heads up you like to play in Vegas involves a Filipino ladyboy.

In your dreams, lover boy.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
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Joined: Feb 19, 2012
February 12th, 2018 at 11:29:06 AM permalink
Looks like the players won in this case. Happy to see this was the result.

Pokernews.com story
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