Only playing hands w/ +EV

How bad a strategy would this be ?

Raising in limit games and shoving in tournaments/no limit.

Basically only playing A-J paired, hoping to improve my hand w/ the 5 cards to come.

I think that depends on your desired outcome. If you want to advance in the tournament, tight-but-aggressive play like that can be powerful - at least until you run into someone with a stronger hand.

Would it matter where I used this strategy ? low limit cash, high limit cash, no limit, or tournament ?

In the early part of a tournament, this isn't a bad strategy, although I'd recommend raising first rather than shoving. As the tournament goes on, though, the blinds will take you out if you don't loosen up. In a limit game, the blinds will cost you far more than you'll win, especially once people start catching on to your range. In a no-limit game, you'll probably be losing as well, since most people won't call a pre-flop all-in from someone who's folded through three straight blinds, and those who will are likely to have a better pair.

Are you saying that your strategy is push all in preflop or fold in a NL cash game or toutnament? If you have no post flop skills whatsoever then I guess this isn't terrible, this would really only be a strategy for a complete novice who had no concept of the game at all. I would also add a few more hands to your range for push/fold. You won't get much action, after a few times people will figure out what you are doing and they will be able to play perfectly against you as their would be a pretty easy counter strategy to this by basically figuring out the optimal calling range against your range. Example:


equity win tie pots won pots tied Range
Hand 0: 52.876% 50.86% 02.02% 423231528 16794612.00 { QQ+, AQs+ }
Hand 1: 47.124% 45.11% 02.02% 375358992 16794612.00 { JJ+ }

If I called with QQ+, AQs+ in the long run I would get the best of you.

This strategy would never work in a limit game as you need to play post flop in a limit game.

If you are looking for what preflop ranges you should play in cash games if you are beginner let me know and I can point you to some good resources, same for tournaments.

All this will vary based on Position and lots of other factors.

Thank you Rubixxcube, I am just starting to play low limit cash games and very much a beginner.

Quote: DonPedro

Would it matter where I used this strategy ? low limit cash, high limit cash, no limit, or tournament ?

I lot depends on the jokers.

I mean the jokers that are seated at your table. I had a guy (really loud and stupid so you just know he was faking it) go all in with 7-2 unsuited just to have everyone fold and he flipped his cards to show us. You have to catch clowns like that during their set-up so that they can't pull off the sting.

Any plays I could add to this strategy to confuse other players ?

I know a guy who always plays the 3 of Spades like AA he says it has something to do with Game Theory

Quote: DonPedro

Any plays I could add to this strategy to confuse other players ?

A middle pair and a suited leaners (Jack-ten suited, for example) would probably be decent semi-bluff cards to throw into the mix.

Thing is, as people have said, people will stop calling you if you play ultra tight, meaning your winners don't pay enough to pay the blinds, or you'll get looked by someone else with a marginal hand who out draws on you.

Quote: DonPedro

How bad a strategy would this be ?

Raising in limit games and shoving in tournaments/no limit.

Basically only playing A-J paired, hoping to improve my hand w/ the 5 cards to come.

If you would like, PM me your address (don't even have to include your name) and I will send you my copy of, The Psychology of Poker by Alan N. Schoonmaker with Pro Player David Sklansky acting as a strategy consultant. Every strategy is a bad strategy until you begin to understand the other players, and since you have stated that you are a beginner, I will say that I have found no better book for someone just starting out with respect to trying to analyze other players.

I do not mean you any offense, but none of your recent posts have alluded in any way whatsoever to what the OTHER players do! The most important thing to recognize about Poker, which is different from anything else in the casino, is that Poker is not a game of one. If those are the only hands you're going to play in Limit, even at a poor table where few players will analyze you, the Blinds and Rake will EAT YOU ALIVE! That's if you win the hand every time. You cannot simply sit around and wait for the Top 10 hands all the time. It's a good way to win the hands you do play, but at what cost on the hands that you don't play? Fold around the Table, the loose SB player Raises to steal your blind, you have J-10, suited, folding that? F*** that guy, BOOM, Re-Raise, want to play ball?

I guess Tournaments are fine for you, though you have a very good chance of losing with this strategy (Blinds/Antes will surely eat you alive and you will be insanely predictable), but please do not go anywhere near an NL cash game unless you learn the basics of reading other players and developing a more aggressive strategy that sees you in more Pots. If I read you doing this, and I WILL be watching you, then I figure only to go against you with suited A-K, A-A, or K-K...eventually I could very well end up with one of these hands and you are going to be dead in the water with your Q-Q. Thanks for telling me exactly what I have to have to be way ahead of you pre-flop, much appreciated. Worst case scenario is I never see any such hand so I just stay the Hell away from you for free.

I've been playing Poker for years. I've participated and done well in a few Tournaments and play Limit pretty well, but I still avoid NL Tables. I'm just not ready, I can't develop my reads or find betting patterns in others quickly enough. You have admitted you are a beginner openly, so please don't find this insulting, but if I am not ready, then you are not ready. Fear not, however, some develop faster than others, so you could be rocking 5-25 NL while I am still grinding out small wins at 3-6, Limit, especially since I don't even play as much as I used to...

By the way, I say NL Tournaments are fine for you ONLY because they are fixed-loss.

Quote: DonPedro

Any plays I could add to this strategy to confuse other players ?

You are getting a little ahead of yourself.
Here is what I would recommend.

Learn basic starting hands by position.
Learn basic flop, turn and river play.

There are plenty of resources in print and online to learn the basics for those, if you want I can point you to them.
You need to crawl before you can walk. The above 2 steps alone are going to require lots of time, studying and playing to begin to understand even basic optimal strategy. Learn this before trying to learn deception and more advanced strategies. An analogy might be, its useless to teach you how to vary your bets counting cards in BJ if you haven't yet learned basic strategy.

To be honest, 90% of the people at low limit games pay almost no attention to what you are doing much beyond the "he plays a lot/not many hands". Even so they still ignore it mostly.
Playing your hands straightforward, especially at low limit games, can be very profitable, more so than people imagine. People love to call to try and catch you, you can have "it" every time and they continue to call. People make tons of irrational decisions all the time in poker at low limits, let people make there own mistakes and learn to take advantage of this before trying advanced strategies.

I agree with your post, in its majority, but he has to learn who the players are making these mistakes, why they are making them and how to identify them. The probabilities are important, yes, but I had a pretty good handle on them and didn't know anything about how to analyze other players, and simply, "Just playing your hand," wasn't profitable. You must read and identify the other players. Make no mistake, not every single Low-Limit Table is an easy game, and even assuming you have a Table just of people, "Playing their hands," if they do that better than you, you're screwed! Player identification is the key to success at a Low-Limit table.

Again, I do agree with what you said for the most part, but I think any starting player would do well to develop both things simultaneously, lest he mistakenly believe that one or the other is enough to make a good player.

Quote: Mission146

I agree with your post, in its majority, but he has to learn who the players are making these mistakes, why they are making them and how to identify them. The probabilities are important, yes, but I had a pretty good handle on them and didn't know anything about how to analyze other players, and simply, "Just playing your hand," wasn't profitable. You must read and identify the other players. Make no mistake, not every single Low-Limit Table is an easy game, and even assuming you have a Table just of people, "Playing their hands," if they do that better than you, you're screwed! Player identification is the key to success at a Low-Limit table.

Again, I do agree with what you said for the most part, but I think any starting player would do well to develop both things simultaneously, lest he mistakenly believe that one or the other is enough to make a good player.

Agreed, probabilities etc is not going to let you easily beat the game, there is a lot to it, and Low Limit tables can be tough, but i think the problem is that He needs to figured out at least some basic strategy before worrying about others.

DonPedro are you in the US or outside the US?

Thank you for all the suggestions, I have a few books from 2 + 2 and try to spend some time each day reviewing them.

I have played around 10-15 sessions @ 3/6 and 4/8. Although I have lost in most of them
( not much $$ , compared to table games , so these losses are much easier on my BR) .

I have had a few winning sessions( like they say even a broken clock is right, twice a day)

It seems as if , one night -my hands will hold or improve and win, and the next night, any pair runs into trips, my trips are not big enough, 2 pair-no good, str8 beat by a flush.

I enjoy playing poker much more than the table games and look forward to improving my game, thanks for the input !!

The tables I play have many experienced regulars, who play together daily, and seem to play many hands, and of course inevitably hit their hands.

So I treat each session as a chance to learn, You are very correct- my main focus is my cards, the board, and not much else.

My last session, I was able to focus on a few players plays, not sure how it helped. As many players played such a wide range of hands, when they hit they won, when it did not , they either acted as if it did and lost, or folded and loss less.

Many players take top,2nd,even 3rd pair to the showdown and act surprised they lost.

I have a lot to learn- but it has been a fun experience so far !!

Quote: DonPedro

Thank you for all the suggestions, I have a few books from 2 + 2 and try to spend some time each day reviewing them.

I have played around 10-15 sessions @ 3/6 and 4/8. Although I have lost in most of them
( not much $$ , compared to table games , so these losses are much easier on my BR) .

Note: Due to rake, it's pretty difficult to be a consistent winner at the 3/6, 4/8 limit level. Especially if the rake is capped at $5 or $6. The average loss per player is $10/hr or more. If you aren't losing a LOT, you're probably above average at the table already.

Quote: tringlomane

Note: Due to rake, it's pretty difficult to be a consistent winner at the 3/6, 4/8 limit level. Especially if the rake is capped at $5 or $6. The average loss per player is $10/hr or more. If you aren't losing a LOT, you're probably above average at the table already.

QFT, from another post of mine, using the rake in the area i live in:

"Here is some scary math for some low limit tables in my area. They take 10-12% of a pot up to a max of $5 a pot, plus $2 a hand jackpot drop if the pot reaches $20, in a no fold em 2/4 Limit holdem game almost every single hand reaches the $45 level which is what it takes to hit the max rake + Jackpot in this game. At these limits you probably get 30-40 hands an hour. If 10 of us sit down with $100 at the table there will be $1000 on the table, at a rough estimate of rake and JP drop of $200 an hour just about everyone would be broke in 5 hours."

DonPedro,

Don't worry about their faces just yet, their faces are mostly irrelevant at Limit anyway. Focus on their betting patterns and remember the Pre-Flop action and see what kinds of cards they show down. That's the most important thing, find their, "Worst hand point," as it relates to making a call, that way, you can be reasonably assured that you have them beat with anything better.