teliot
teliot
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November 18th, 2011 at 2:12:18 PM permalink
Studies say software cheats players at 2 online casinos,

By Mark Gruetze, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, November 18, 2011
Last updated: 2:37 pm
boymimbo
boymimbo
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November 18th, 2011 at 3:11:49 PM permalink
Nice work on getting this out there, Mike and Eliot!!!
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
boymimbo
boymimbo
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November 18th, 2011 at 3:16:03 PM permalink
Does anyone want to try a Legends test to see if Rachel Miller is correct or not?
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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November 18th, 2011 at 5:28:53 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Nice work on getting this out there, Mike and Eliot!!!



Thank you! Kudos also to Mark Gruetze for bringing some attention to this in the mainstream media.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Garnabby
Garnabby
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November 20th, 2011 at 6:27:31 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

... also to Mark Gruetze for bringing some attention to this in the mainstream media.


"Mark Gruetze has been a recreational gambler for more than 30 years, focusing on blackjack, video poker and poker. He is administrative editor of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Send questions to players@tribweb.com. "

By which definition is he "mainstream"? There's not even a spot at that page to leave comments. Looks like bodog isn't getting his "money's worth" out of the boys after all. (One more reason to NOT legalize such companies.)
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)
teddys
teddys
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November 20th, 2011 at 4:38:30 PM permalink
Quote: Garnabby

By which definition is he "mainstream"? There's not even a spot at that page to leave comments. Looks like bodog isn't getting his "money's worth" out of the boys after all. (One more reason to NOT legalize such companies.)

Mark was at the WoV meetup in Pittsburgh and knows and is a fan of the site. He sometimes posts here. Trib-Review is a major daily in Pittsburgh and is by any definition mainstream.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Garnabby
Garnabby
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November 20th, 2011 at 5:11:05 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Mark was at the WoV meetup in Pittsburgh and knows and is a fan of the site. He sometimes posts here.


One of "the boys" was exactly where i was going with that.
Quote: teddys

... by any definition mainstream.


I was thinking syndicated "mainstream".

Anyway, on which page of that local newspaper did that (sorely-incomplete) story run?

And would such a story about a local casino be covered in full on the front page of any newspaper, were such to come to light?
Why bet at all, if you can be sure? Anyway, what constitutes a "good bet"? - The best slots-game in town; a sucker's edge; or some gray-area blackjack-stunts? (P.S. God doesn't even have to exist to be God.)
binary128
binary128
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November 22nd, 2011 at 10:53:09 AM permalink
I believe that it is an inescapable conclusion - the game of Craps provided by BLR Technologies is capable of being "rigged". (Please note my use of the word "capable". See below.)

As a software developer, I will put forward one possible method for doing this.

Let's say that you have a code component which contains public and private classes, and these public classes expose public methods. So, one public class may be craps_game, and one public method may be roll_dice.

This roll_dice method takes arguments, which it uses to process the game. Let's say that one of these arguments is a nefarious "adjustment factor" for the game return.

As an extreme; if the parent code passes in a 100 for this adjustment factor, that translates to a clean game. If the parent code passes in a 0 (zero), then every game is a loser.

Thus, by using this "adjustment factor" it would be possible to deploy the same code as both a clean game and a "rigged" game. And the level of that "rigged-ness" would be variable.

Also of importance - If the parent code is script code (and not compiled code), then this "adjustment factor" can be easily modified, perhaps taking only a few seconds. In other words, if someone running such a system got the word that "the cops are at the door", then 15 seconds later and they're running a clean game.

(Please don't go all "Tin Foil Hat" on me with "If you know it then you do it" silliness. Anyone who writes code for a living can see their way through this one.)

It is my understanding that people involved in this investigation played in a BLR Tech "Play for Fun" version of the Craps game. In doing so, they did NOT observe the same 25% RTP behavior that has been observed and documented by others.

So, could I ask those that did testing to confirm what they tested, and whether their results were clean or rigged? In replying, could you please provide a link, if available, to where you published or documented your results?

World Wide Wagering

- "Play for Fun" confirmed clean/rigged (or not available)?

- "Play for Real" confirmed rigged. (clempops4)


5Dimes

- "Play for Fun" confirmed clean/rigged (or not available)?

- "Play for Real" confirmed clean/rigged?


It is my understanding that Legends does NOT provide a "Play for Fun" version of the BLR Tech Casino.

Legends

- "Play for Fun" not available.

- "Play for Real" - ???
boymimbo
boymimbo
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November 22nd, 2011 at 11:11:51 AM permalink
Play for fun on all three and on the BLR site does not have the bias.

Play for Real at Legends was not tested.

Play for Real at 5 dimes - has videos that the Wizard posted.
Play for Real at WorldWide - has clems' original analysis (854 of 3,200 wins) in that thread. Eliot also did an analysis though it is unclear on the site. I think it was WorldWide.

5 Dimes - play for fun and real are now gone.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
binary128
binary128
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November 22nd, 2011 at 12:30:46 PM permalink
boymimbo,

When you say "Play for fun on all three ..." - I did not see a Play for Fun at Legends. Did you?

Mike's data was for 5Dimes. clempops' data was for WWW. Eliot's data is unsure.

Can you point to any of this via links? Especially the Play for Fun data/observations.

Thanks.

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