Mental
Mental
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October 2nd, 2022 at 6:22:18 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

In this forum, whenever anyone accuses a casino of cheating at a game such as BJ, the usual WOV suspects start posting that millions of hands are necessary to accumulate the kind of statistics that are necessary to conclude that a game is unfair. That's the reasoning used by salaried casino advocates on this WOV forum to squash any claims of crooked casino games.

Therefore, it is simply fanciful nonsense that your personal hand histories from an online casino are enough to demonstrate that an online BJ game is unfair. Because you haven't played millions of hands. Bad results overs tens of thousands of hands are explainable as simply bad variance.

Hand histories in poker are different, because they can exhibit online players making inexplicable decisions to consistently win hands.

Would anyone doubt this statement:

Ever since we have had an internet, there have always been online casinos with unfair games. There may (or may not) be jurisdictions where online games are well regulated, but there have always been online casinos headquartered in the Caribbean, and other parts of the world where regulations are just a rumor and where 'game integrity' is a lie. There are so many nations where corruption is a way of life and where regulators can be bribed to look the other way, I don't see how anyone can sit in their wide chairs here in the US and make some of the statements that were made earlier in this thread.
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The OP refers to Draftkings, Wynn, Golden Nugget, FanDual, MGM, not some sketchy island operator.

The description of the algorithm does not imply subtle EV shaving. It describes dropping the hammer on the poor sap who raises his bet. We are not talking millions of hands to uncover the hammer algorithm.

Besides, how uncommon is it for a serious player to acquire a million hands of BJ? I have played many millions of deals of VP games and even more spins of slot machines.

The number of logged hands analyzed rigorously by the claimant in the OP is apparently zero.
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
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MentalOnceDear
October 2nd, 2022 at 6:31:46 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

The OP refers to Draftkings, Wynn, Golden Nugget, FanDual, MGM, not some sketchy island operator.

No, he's talking about ALL of them:

Quote:

THESE GAMING SITES THAT ARE ON THE INTERNET ARE ALL - EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM - %100 RIGGED (link)



After his reference to Draftkings, Wynn, etc., it said et al ("and others").

It's a ridiculous claim.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 2nd, 2022 at 9:35:47 PM permalink
One of the dead giveaways on the air ball machine that it was registered with the state as a slot machine was if you won more than $1,200 on any bet they had to come around and pay you in person with cash after you filled out the tax forms just like you do on a slot machine. Just like my friend who works for the casino said. Same with Bally roulette machines, they were just glorified slot machines and none of the roulette players would play them after a while cuz you can't win on them in the same way you win at regular roulette. About 2010 they pulled the air ball roulette out of Four Winds Casino because two of the guys who repaired it from a firm based in Chicago figured out how the algorithm worked and they figured out how to win on it and took it for a couple hundred thousand dollars. There was a court case against them and I never heard how it turned out but the casino pulled the machine.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
darkoz
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October 2nd, 2022 at 9:41:24 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

One of the dead giveaways on the air ball machine that it was registered with the state as a slot machine was if you won more than $1,200 on any bet they had to come around and pay you in person with cash after you filled out the tax forms just like you do on a slot machine. Just like my friend who works for the casino said. Same with Bally roulette machines, they were just glorified slot machines and none of the roulette players would play them after a while cuz you can't win on them in the same way you win at regular roulette. About 2010 they pulled the air ball roulette out of Four Winds Casino because two of the guys who repaired it from a firm based in Chicago figured out how the algorithm worked and they figured out how to win on it and took it for a couple hundred thousand dollars. There was a court case against them and I never heard how it turned out but the casino pulled the machine.
link to original post



Can't find any evidence this happened.

Can you supply a link
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 3rd, 2022 at 2:07:07 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

One of the dead giveaways on the air ball machine that it was registered with the state as a slot machine was if you won more than $1,200 on any bet they had to come around and pay you in person with cash after you filled out the tax forms just like you do on a slot machine. Just like my friend who works for the casino said. Same with Bally roulette machines, they were just glorified slot machines and none of the roulette players would play them after a while cuz you can't win on them in the same way you win at regular roulette. About 2010 they pulled the air ball roulette out of Four Winds Casino because two of the guys who repaired it from a firm based in Chicago figured out how the algorithm worked and they figured out how to win on it and took it for a couple hundred thousand dollars. There was a court case against them and I never heard how it turned out but the casino pulled the machine.
link to original post



Can't find any evidence this happened.

Can you supply a link
link to original post



I'm remembering now, they did not pull the machine right away. What they did was lowered the time did you had to make a bet down to 10 seconds. I kid you not. That did not work out so they pulled the machine entirely. Them beating the algorithm had something to do with how much time they had in between bets. Like I said it was a long time ago could have been 2008.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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October 3rd, 2022 at 3:08:21 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

One of the dead giveaways on the air ball machine that it was registered with the state as a slot machine was if you won more than $1,200 on any bet they had to come around and pay you in person with cash after you filled out the tax forms just like you do on a slot machine. Just like my friend who works for the casino said. Same with Bally roulette machines, they were just glorified slot machines and none of the roulette players would play them after a while cuz you can't win on them in the same way you win at regular roulette. About 2010 they pulled the air ball roulette out of Four Winds Casino because two of the guys who repaired it from a firm based in Chicago figured out how the algorithm worked and they figured out how to win on it and took it for a couple hundred thousand dollars. There was a court case against them and I never heard how it turned out but the casino pulled the machine.
link to original post



Can't find any evidence this happened.

Can you supply a link
link to original post



I'm remembering now, they did not pull the machine right away. What they did was lowered the time did you had to make a bet down to 10 seconds. I kid you not. That did not work out so they pulled the machine entirely. Them beating the algorithm had something to do with how much time they had in between bets. Like I said it was a long time ago could have been 2008.
link to original post

Beating the Algorithm or clocking the wheel? I know they were lowering the amount of time you had to bet and changing the wheel speeds to prevent people from wheel clocking. Link, please? There were all kinds of various theories about organic roulette and the others but never have we seen any proof.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
BillHasRetired
BillHasRetired
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October 4th, 2022 at 12:29:55 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay
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For a minute, I thought you had typed "Heresy". (sigh) I've been reading too much David Weber.
ViennaPizza
ViennaPizza
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October 4th, 2022 at 2:56:37 AM permalink
Quora used to be legit, but nowadays it has turned into an echo chamber
AxelWolf
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OnceDearDieter
October 4th, 2022 at 5:49:07 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

No way this can be true, because if the games are rigged to just let you win small bets, then everyone would figure this out and ONLY make small bets and just clean up.
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In general I agree with this, however...

Ladies and gentlemen, the story you are about to hear is true. Only the names( probably lots of other stuff too)have been changed to protect the innocent(Me). I'm sure I have forgotten some details as it's been a long time.

I won't publicly mention the name of the casino, but it's a well-known respected offshore online casino.

After quite a bit of blackjack play online, I began to notice small bets between $1-$10(I think I mostly kept it under $7) and was winning at a noticeable above-average rate. This seemed to happen soon after a new deposit once the account had been dormant for a long while, or on a new account.

I know you are going to ask... why not just sit and play $1-$10 a hand all day and rack up the big money? Well yeah, that makes perfect sense, and I certainly would, if I could. Unfortunately, there seems to have been a trigger point that kicked in a..... take-down/normal mode. I believe that amount to have been around $200, in my case, that's what kept coming up.

Of course, none of this is actual evidence, it could have all just been confirmation bias, and crazy thinking, I even had some doubt myself.

I wasn't about to invest the time and energy to 100% confirm my theory. I wasn't really all that interested in making a few hundred extra dollars from time to time, especially, just on my experience and speculation. There was a much better opportunity at this particular casino, so it just added a little extra to my earnings from time to time.

Under my guidance, My girlfriend(now wifey) was able to recreate the same results by playing blackjack within those parameters.

Eventually, I referred a few close non-AP friends(probably around 10) to the website being that the casino had some good bonuses and fair payables on their games, such as 9/6 jacks VP. with initial instructions, all of them were able to make between $150 and $200 from just playing blackjack alone.

With one particular friend and aspiring AP, I never mentioned anything about my theory, I just told him to play blackjack and never exceed betting more than $8. He asked why not bet more than $8. I just said it was to avoid variance, let's just get this out of the way and get to the good stuff. After a week or so we meet up and I asked him how it was going at the casino and asked if he had noticed anything. I told him before you start, I already know what you are going to say, but carry on. Sure enough, he began to tell me how it's letting you win way above average on smaller bets.

Note: They had what should have been a good BJ promo. Betting larger amounts than I would normally, was the way to go, or so I thought. While betting $25 ++ I was getting absolutely crushed and went on one of my longest losing steaks while playing blackjack ever. I never again played any blackjack over $20 a hand. Usually, l kept it under $10. Again, this could all just be selective memory and confirmation bias. But, I wasn't about to take any chances. Just way too many losing hands in a row. LLLLLLLLLLW LLLLLLLLWLLLLLLWLLLLLL Not <<<Not accurate, but you get the point.

A "respected" member here independently came up with a similar theory about abnormally winning small bets about this particular online casino.

My theory is that they don't mind if they might possibly lose a few hundred to some new players. For the most part, people are going to be hooked if they are winning winning winning while playing blackjack. They will be coming back for more seeking that elusive winning streak they once remembered.

On top of that, most people are going to start betting higher amounts if they keep winning. Most people are going to play slots and other games while being locked into whatever high wagering requirements they have from bonuses.


At some point a different theory was popping up that this casino blackjack was rigged to lose, I highly speculate they were making larger than normal bets. This was making some small waves and I was asked to do some testing. I agreed to do the test, but I disagreed with the test since I was asked to bet small and only track certain things. I told those who asked that I was undoubtedly going to win money. I can't even remember if I actually won(I would have to look at old notes, texts and emails), but I do know I ran better than expected, and of course, it didn't show anything amiss.


I think they have some type of program that can detect your normal play, account balance, and various other things and it can adjust itself accordingly, so as not to be so obvious.

example: I'm convinced that if you normally play a few bucks a hand on blackjack or whatever, then you suddenly jump your bets to a large amount... you are F'ed. If you somehow have the funds to continue betting higher amounts it will adjust itself back to some normal resemblance of play.

None of this is proof of anything, it's all circumstantial. No doubt I'm off base with some of my theories and correct about some. Whatever the case, it served me well. I'm always cautious when playing unregulated online casinos, But if you are an AP or just like some value, I think it's foolish to avoid playing online.

What people may not realize is the fact that many regulated and unregulated online casinos have much much better RTPS than B&M casinos.

NO, It's not all rigged like Even Bob is suggesting. You can absolutely win and get paid while playing online. Do your research and stick to the top 20 online casinos, stick to well-known software providers. READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. After a while, you can skip through very quickly and identify the key terms that relate to your play and bonuses, such as the max bet allowed while using a particular bonus.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mental
Mental
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October 4th, 2022 at 7:01:41 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf


After quite a bit of blackjack play online, I began to notice small bets between $1-$10(I think I mostly kept it under $7) and was winning at a noticeable above-average rate. This seemed to happen soon after a new deposit once the account had been dormant for a long while, or on a new account.
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And you never bothered to log your play? Even if the offshore casino did not offer transaction logs, I would have written my own logger if I thought there was an algo that could be exploited.

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