Gaffed software at major Internet casinos

Quote: 4ofaKind

I officially retire from all of this nonsense, since I realize the only hope I have of once again enjoying online gaming is to wait for the USA. Hope I live long enough to find out being 60 years old already.

Later

I guess I'm finally with ya on something pops, after all these years. Integration of online and regulated casinos is going to be a mess. I am out. I am disappointed you have held the line that Nevada or NJ would be something different in the first place or in the long run, but we are all entitled to our opinions. I'm mostly disappointed that you have never engaged me when I tell you how it really is going - I understand you may believe it is a self correcting thing - that once you have an American regulator looking at the online game you will get what you are looking for - but I simply do not see it. 888 gets the first live poker license, Gtech gets a bye in light of these allegations, Nevada and Amaya both bring on sullied names from Ultimate Bet, (however briefly in one instance), New Jersey drafts a check from a cabinet position to hire Malta LGA. I didn't mean to beat your argument into the dirt, I'm just saying it was a dream. All online elements are entrenched in the new "on land" online game. Would it have been different back when you said you weren't lobbying for regulation (oops ocr forum archived and null)? Maybe, but we are where we are and the current state, and foreseeable state of affairs was negotiated on and agreed to far before we started arguing about it. You saw the glass half full and maybe still see hope - I knew all along what this crapfest would become.

I too, retire from the idiocy.

Take care old man

I somehow suspect you'll both be around for time to come.

I agree that the belief in "US regulation" as some kind of potential manna from heaven is highly misguided, and frankly plain naïve. If all the other governing bodies are as bent as each other - and we now have evidence from pretty much all of them - then why the US would be some kind of paragon of perfection is a mystery to me, other than I know many Americans are seriously patriotic and therefore maybe inclined to see their mechanisms through rose-tinted specs.

Quote: Caruso

I somehow suspect you'll both be around for time to come.

I agree that the belief in "US regulation" as some kind of potential manna from heaven is highly misguided, and frankly plain naïve. If all the other governing bodies are as bent as each other - and we now have evidence from pretty much all of them - then why the US would be some kind of paragon of perfection is a mystery to me, other than I know many Americans are seriously patriotic and therefore maybe inclined to see their mechanisms through rose-tinted specs.

Additionally, I think people massively overstate the importance of the US market. In a few years it will become irrelevant. The money is in Asia. Macau eclipses Las Vegas already. Casino interests outside the US are very powerful-they don't need a seal of federal approval to make billions.

So down in history this one goes, huh? Caruso has the right angle - publish the facts for all to see for all time. He's been doing it for as long as I can remember and has archived dozens of things like this. I think it's important for people to remember that Eliot Jacobson ( I hope I spelled that right) was not just some guy who came along and said, "yeah me too" he started this thread. The Wizard might have jumped the gun a bit blacklisting Realistic but I guess we'll never know because the someone else is holding all the cards.

You know what stinks to high heaven though? It isn't the hubris of GTECH, it's the fact they got away with it. Like it's us and them and they hold the deck. That deck seems to include regulators and casino watch dogs. And what is more revolting is that big operators get to slide, take a bye, ignore the reality just because they can. It taints the whole ball of wax on land and online due to the games provider. That's not some emotional response to not seeing a fair conclusion, that is a reality check.

We have server based gaming on land, all over the place. We have incidences of GTECH delivering messed up games in Saratoga NY (not a red herring) and we have them not answering to players through regulators. We really can't look at the old beat cop in Gibraltar as some statistical anomaly - we can see it as the wave of the future though.

Look I'm not saying the games were crooked, it could have been a simple mistake. And I'm not saying that someone who answers directly to the Minister of Finance was compromised either, I'm saying it is way bigger than that. I'm saying that GTECH and SCIGAMES and any other number of super players including betfred, betfair, william hill, paddy power and any Playtech can do as they damn well please. And I'm saying that server based gaming is no different whether it comes into your living room, your hotel room or is delivered on the casino floor. The whole ball of wax was tainted when Nevada gave Gtech (spielo/lottomatica/finsoft/dynamite idea et al whatever) an online license. ka-put!

So where this is going? The "power" of existing online operators has affected the new online operations. Guess who didn't get a piece of that pie? Sheldon. (thanks for the 'Sands' pass Wizard) so he is all against online.

Anyway, I digress. Take the Danish approval of SkilonNet. What really happened? They got a PLATFORM approved, some games on it might have been TST or other RNG approved but they sure as heck didn't test the software did they? (See Wizard of Odds blacklist SON for bad double up game.) So they can dance along their merry way and change the most obvious cheating device known to a gambler whenever they damn well please (and it can happen on land folks). Yet, they hold one of the most prestigious licenses available for an online provider. Go figure. Same mess with UKGC, GRA, whatever and finsoft.

I guess that if anything good could come of this, it isn't that we depend on a regulator but on someone invested in their reputation and cash flow to tell us if stuff is wonky or right. So if Eliot J. has a way to compare RNG to actual game play (start small there are probably 10,000 games online now) and certify it, I would play there. Otherwise I'm throwing in the lucky penny and never looking back.

Well then, I guess this is historical and ended pretty much as every other documented case of bad games ends.
I have a better idea.
Put the world's largest game supplier on their knees or tell the them to get the hell out of the space.

The fact that my UK or British friends, acquaintances, or bully enemies don't seem capable of using the political process in public (nor legal) to show the level of collusion does kind of dishearten me. I gave it my all. I put my boots on the ground in Providence, I used every element of poetry i could conjure. I have met the enemy and I lost. But I'm not the loser - I fought.

fight

eff it, I won't walk on eggshells. ken burns does this one and Eliot could have tried harder.

deleted by author

.........

The moral of the story is - it doesn't matter who or what was behind the game, it was really nothing ya know what matters is that the Minister of Finance has not made a public statement. This isn't Neo Games Legends of Terra, this is a poke with a pin. I understand i have not earned the respect tro ask the question but I have one of Elliot.

i remember a time when strings and strings of loud bikes rode by my house until I got the dosh. i remember being whisked into a silver Mercedes (mistaken identity and being told my civil rights had been revoked, i remember sitting in a cell - years ago in Nevada (gambling crime before i was 18) I have had my hair pulled with a foot on my neck and a gun in my nose, and i have been shot at more than once(fitzys once and G's twice) and mugged at 3am with no bicycle cops downtown. i could go on and on. I have been threatened with a ten year felony, innocent as I am, as a gambling crime in Rhode Island, simply because I looked like me in a 30 year old gold book picture, and i have sought sanctuary on the mashntucket (how you say?) res in the last couple of months and survived. I have been threatened on the phone by LEO's and had my bail revoked in six counties, including Clark. In Nevada i have been locked in a closet with skellies and heard the yokal talk about whre they came from on the other side of the door, I have abconded (gambling -crime-) and hid beneath the prosecutors desk and used his phone to call my counsel, I have been beaten within an ich of my life by people purpoting to be police, and i have walked the west greenwich campus, nexy amgen, now a day care, made appointments, and approached the Providence campus of gtech before being threatened with a Lincoln gambling crime i could not have committed because i was not there (they use old gold book, believe it) but i have never had someone kick down my door and cap me behind the ear for talking about gtech- that is noty what it is about. Dig deep enough into any online or online casno and you could find that, it is everywhere. gtech is simply too big too fai asnd not because oif that. believe me, I drank moonshoine with rhode island rednecks, i sat in the best and worst bars in providence, and to amn, to amn the locals knew who gtech was - i got lots of pinky finger scares, but never in relation to gtech- okay, ibought a ticket I lied a little, i got appointments. It is something bigger, really i goit the vibe that spielo was untouchable, and that is why i alluded to interpol. It turns out it is true, gtech is cozy'ing up with scigames rather than tryin to dominate now (ref no prob) and they have made enough 30 year profit sharing contracts that it wouldn't matter if tyou shut them down tomorrow. It aint what ya think it is, in your wildest dreams - it is a move by lottery providers, pure and simple, to take th eonlone space - innit? yes it is

WTF is wrong with you? Stop posting while under the influence of whatever it is you're taking.

I tried to PM you before posting Michael after creating this account but couldn't navigate it. I had a hard time getting an email to you with my original account closed. If this seems untoward, please close this account and accept my apologies.
For others - I had sent a private message to the Wizard asking him to close my account. I didn't realize I had left the last ramble on here. Then I couldn't delete it. Then I decided that as long as it was mostly factual, why bother. I would like to rejoin other conversations.
If this account is allowed to remain I will comport myself in a way that most any reader can understand, to the best of my ability, and not be overly abstract or cryptic in my assertions. I will state opinions and facts. Any are open to challenge.
Unlike most, this is not a bridge I meant to burn.

Briefly, and I realize this may be removed for any reason.
My opinion is that the gaffed games were of little consequence until we saw the response. A simple gaff perhaps. A misplaced dynamic paytable coding. Simple, compensations. But we saw an arrogance that was not some yapping dog in Costa Rica trying to bark an injured player down - we saw Hubris. We saw the most important player in the world say "so what, we will not apologize and if you go tell teacher, we'll send YOU to the office for a spanking". The response of any casino was probably directly proportional to what they had on the line - so no need to sing praise for one and damn another. What we saw here was absolute arrogance from someone who can get away with it.
Why can they do as they please? It is not because the "parent" company has been around since the 1600's, and it is not because they were who they were. It is because they run the numbers for the world. They own every lottery you can think of and they could not get caught with their pants down. In fact they answer to no-one.

So, they have a pit bull. I don't believe that Gtech/finsoft/whatever is a mad dog. I just think that lotteries have gotten away with a certain form of business behaviour (protected by government, offer shitty odds, bluster when busted) for so long that they truly believe they can take the entire gambling space and do as they please. That does attract a certain element. With no answering to anyone but themselves. That's what most people don't get about this - some do.
I never said i was opposed to it. I'm just trying to educate here, and hell no there is nothing we can do about it, is there? Scientific Games (under any alia) owns how many machines on American casino floors, Spielo (under any alias) owns how many? The fix is in, I just wish they would have been nicer about announcing their dominion.
But the fix is in because you let gramma buy scratchies at the packie store, and because you yearn for that 42,000,000:1 payoff when you know you can't have it, and because you let your loved ones lie to themselves, and because you didn't raise your whisper to the man the first time you saw a foodstamp recipient buy a lottery ticket.
The fix is not in over some stupid dynamic miscoding on a reel slot displayed help file of a supposed fixed odds game that brought in maybe 380k (just a guess here or there).
It's in because we let it in - each of us.

The Lottery is an unstoppable force, it always has been. Chinese peasants fought each other to recover the pigeons for what we call Keno. Older bones than have been documented threw some kind of stone. Gambling is intrinsic to man, it just is. As long as the GAME is not dynamically fixed i could not care less about the pay table, and we don't see a fixed game here in that respect - we do see a bad pay table displayed dynamically - I will go for" Finsoft effed up when they "enhanced" the Realistic game" explanation. That is all we have to go on. So let it go and chase them into OPAP Greece if you want and see their behavior when they have the ball lol

Quote: lojo1

I tried to PM you before posting Michael after creating this account but couldn't navigate it. I had a hard time getting an email to you with my original account closed. If this seems untoward,

Since you claim to have made a good faith effort to reach me, there won't be a punishment for the multiple-account rule. So, I'm unbanning logo and banning logo1. Carry on with what you were saying, under "lojo."

Banned members may contact me through the contact form.

Thank you sir.

Have any online followers seen what these guys are doing in Greece since they got the controlling share of OPAP with Emma Delta? It's a virtual lock-up monopoly. Damn sharp investment, and it shows their true colors.

Well I guess no one knows, know one cares, or nobody cares. I'll take that as point proven. They own the space I guess.

Anyone who folded to this should put a sign up that says "owned by gtech". That's my opinion. Shall we start with the New Jersey board or Nevada? Should we go as far as all of the forums who have censored this discussion? It was bound to happen sooner or later, and there was bound to be someone like me promoting their borg reality - because make no mistake my friends, foes or otherwise - this is the landscape and they enjoy the discussion. Why on earth legal beagles or any other shits need to be discussed is beyond my ken when the pup of the Minister of Finance of (not now so great because of this) Great Britain was allowed to threaten one of the only purveyors of truth in gambling and he shut his mouth forthwith.
The capital has run out on the issue for most - it has become a losing proposition for any affiliate who wanted to make hay. Now we are left with anyone who gives two shakes or not. Forums have been censored, so far this one has not.
I don't find discussion here so I will assume none of it matters, the issue is settled, or someone intimidated all the readers too by proxy.
Believe me, I have better things to do than beat bonuses, chase rogue operators, or even gamble. I'm just blown away by the lack of interest in what could be exciting education to the realities of a bet laid and a bet paid.

With no argument to the contrary I will assume that every reader knows and believes that the lottery will control the space, online and onl and. If you have a a contrary opinion I will entertain it.

BTW I'm not persona non grata on most forums without reason - I threaten the affy hold. Nothing like that here.

alright I give up folks. Thanks for letting me back on Wizard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbjNWg2Q5b4

Mate, you know I love ya', right?

But you devalue every freakin' thread you participate in with these, sorry, gotta say it, ridiculous and off topic posts. I sometimes wonder if you're a bizarre kind of casino plant, because you only help the bad boys with this stuff.

I appreciate your sentiments but must disagree about the value on on-topic"ness". The game gaffers now own a controlling interest in Emma Delta which owns the Greek gambling monopoly OPAP. If we look at what has occurred in Greece (blacklist, etc.) since this deal, we see the true colors of the game-gaffers. A good starting google string would simply be "OPAP pokerfuse", or gtech opap.

To me, this behavior confirms their way of doing business and draws a direct line to the way they responded to this issue - they didn't! They may have been "inconvenienced" by an inquiry from the Gibraltar commissioner, but reading the tone of his so-called report it would be easy to imagine a little figurative commissioner elbow to the rib of finsoft with a hushed "don't worry about it, I know you're good guys, I'll make these flies quit buzzing you".

Maybe my premise seems ridiculous - how could some crap software like Boss Media hope to take the online gambling space? It can't and it won't, but the MO of gtech can and will. Their machinations are easy to see in their land casino contracts - exclusive providership in may instances, assured floor space in others (assumed) and 20 - 30 year contracts - some with profit sharing. Anyone freely competing in their markets risks legal/criminal action, because laws are crafted to benefit gtech. The lottery is always a monopoly in its own right, although other forms of gambling are allowed (presently).

The US DOJ policy decision in 2011 or '12 that limited the Wire Act to sports betting was brought specifically to allow online lottery, and as a consequence other forms of gambling were given a green light of sorts. As gtech owns exclusive rights to almost 40 US state lotteries there is good reason to believe they may have cheered that decision. They may have even engineered it, I haven't looked. While 888 may be the delivery vehicle for Nevada, New Jersey, or Delaware you can bet my bottom dollar that gtech will be the vehicle in at least a dozen new states when they come online with lottery sales at 60% RTP. Next will be "regular" casino games with the same crap odds offered to players in Greece. And we can bet that the contracts they negotiate will look like OPAP. As federal regulation comes along (hearings were held last Tuesday) it's a pretty good guess that the final bill, or maybe an earmark, will give the space to established, legitimate lotteries - read - gtech.

Maybe I used 2,000,000 unnecessary words leading up to these 5 paragraphs. What that has to do with a couple of gaffed games is not much. It has everything to do with the way it played out. There were no penalties, sanctions, or demands for reimbursement. They were given a poker license in Nevada while the investigation was ongoing. Forum members and professionals were 'silenced'. As far as we know legal threats were made to forum owners. The company is simply too big to admit an error - and they don't have to. They own whatever space they play in.

I won't argue with any of that, but I was talking about the off topic YouTube videos (top of this page), not anything you just posted above. It was the same thing that made me see red at BB, which led to a tsunami of posts that got you "moderated" status, so I phrased it (fairly) politely above to avoid unneessary agro.

The thing with you is if you'd just not post when you're under the influence, I doubt you'd be banned anywhere.

Quote: Caruso

I won't argue with any of that, but I was talking about the off topic YouTube videos (top of this page), not anything you just posted above. It was the same thing that made me see red at BB, which led to a tsunami of posts that got you "moderated" status, so I phrased it (fairly) politely above to avoid unneessary agro.

The thing with you is if you'd just not post when you're under the influence, I doubt you'd be banned anywhere.

Ah, but I'm rarely inclined to post sober my friend. And I'm pretty sure I would have been booted from CM anyway because I would have said the same things to max today that I said then. GIA? good riddance to those roguemasters. OCR? yeah, you right. BB? That moderation was due to outside influence - he de facto banned me by simply not posting anything I submitted - after heavily censoring oops editing historic statements. Much of what he refused to publish was very similar to the above.
But no matter, now that I finally cut to the chase (obfuscation was a form of "don't hit the fruit-loop" defense) I'm pretty much shut of the subject.

I'll post my slim shady elsewhere ;)

@ Lojo,

My problem with so many of your posts is that they read like Finnegans Wake. They seem to contain "cause and affect" relationships, but these are so obscure as to have meaning only to the writer.

They are mostly written in prose, rather than a more "technical writing" style. The prose, in and of itself, is at times entertaining. But the VAST majority of times I have no freakin' clue what the hell you are talking about.

It's obvious that there is a lot of hard content (as opinion, but with supporting data) hidden amongst the, at times, lengthy prose. But most of the time I just don't have the time to wade through all of that prose and try to extract the significant nuggets.

So, in my opinion, if you would try to "write for the audience" rather than "write for the author", you'd perhaps make the contribution to the thread, and to the online forum community, that you are capable of, and I suspect desirous of, making.

Chris

Quote: binary128

@ Lojo,

My problem with so many of your posts is that they read like Finnegans Wake. They seem to contain "cause and affect" relationships, but these are so obscure as to have meaning only to the writer.

They are mostly written in prose, rather than a more "technical writing" style. The prose, in and of itself, is at times entertaining. But the VAST majority of times I have no freakin' clue what the hell you are talking about.

It's obvious that there is a lot of hard content (as opinion, but with supporting data) hidden amongst the, at times, lengthy prose. But most of the time I just don't have the time to wade through all of that prose and try to extract the significant nuggets.

So, in my opinion, if you would try to "write for the audience" rather than "write for the author", you'd perhaps make the contribution to the thread, and to the online forum community, that you are capable of, and I suspect desirous of, making.

Chris

Thank you for the critique. I'll take a look at that.

Regards

These dogs will just not quit cheating! Forget the saratoga thing (i tried to go interview her but had a problem) Now they are using false press reports to help people throw away their winning numbers. I'll start a new thread or leave it alone. This is not about gaffed games to me, It's about gaffers. In fact google has rewritten the news tonight, oh gosh, and the gtech idaho lottery is no longer apologizing for pretending to announce that someone in twin falls county won 40k (with the effect of the actual $1,000,000 winner tossing their ticket). It's all covered up, clain your winneer in 180 days or fuck off

google news burned this info, today


Lottery spokesman David Workman said there a reporting error that the winning ticket was bought in Twin Falls County, but that was not the case, the $1 million ticket was actually sold in Boise.


"We are encouraging everyone who played Powerball for last night's draw to check their tickets carefully,"

enough said

Do ya suppose they have my mug at all gtech stations? It was a fail in Rhode Island - too hot - but I guess I'll start up the west coast and see what happens. Just guessing san diego is sci-games, but haven't looked.
Just so they know - ya burn a player you might see me.

I can see how that may seem megalomaniacal, and anyone can imagine i have no sway. But I do put my 2 boots on the ground and I am not afraid to do it again. I can call cheese too and i do. Forget what you have learned about the powers behind the games and who they may or may not be, it always changes. (slimshadythegame) I have one second to decide, do i pursue or do i forget.

I forget and if anyone else wants to go all up into anything that big, there is nothing else that big, I won't be here for ya. I hereby forget.

shady http://rapgenius.com/Game-we-aint-lyrics

The game is changing, the game will never be the same