dudestupid
dudestupid
Joined: Sep 11, 2010
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 151
January 4th, 2015 at 7:52:33 PM permalink
(this is inspired by the recent thread on ratholing)
If you're trying to get comps it seems to make sense to bet more when the pit boss is looking. I've seen multiple authors recommend this. Maybe bet $10 when s/he's not around and then increase to $50. Personally I think this is dishonest, maybe somewhat worse than telling your wife she "looks nice" when she doesn't and somewhat less serious than pirating movies.
I haven't varied my bets like this, but I have considered it. Usually I avoid chasing comps.
What's the chance of the pit boss noticing this? Would they confuse it with counting? I suspect it would just be dealt with by comping at the $10 rate.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
  • Threads: 211
  • Posts: 5319
January 4th, 2015 at 8:23:57 PM permalink
As a comps hustler I can tell you that the casinos do the most unethical methods for rating you so I hardly see how it is unethical to utilize the arsenal at your disposal to obtain those comps.

Let me ask you this:

When the pit boss sees you are wagering at $50, you are actually risking that $50 at that moment? If his rating is for $50 then that is because that is precisely what you are risking. If they cannot watch you as you vary your bets then they need a better system. Feel no guilt about it.

Here is another scenario. You have a system that requires you to bet more as you lose (or win). Not necessarily a straight martingale but you raise your bets in a succession. Is it ethical that the pit boss sees your first bet and rates you at ten bucks an hour when within fifteen minutes you might be wagering hundreds per hand? And when using this system you lose thousands is it ethical that the casino comp you as a ten dollar bettor? Or is ok when the issues with their comping methods work in their favor?
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
  • Threads: 7
  • Posts: 1482
January 4th, 2015 at 9:17:12 PM permalink
Quote: dudestupid

Personally I think this is dishonest, maybe somewhat worse than telling your wife she "looks nice" when she doesn't



1. Your wife always looks nice.

2. Don't fret about the honesty.

Casinos generally base comps on the greater of ADT or actual losses. They're tracking your buy-in, your rebuys, your cash-out, and the duration you were at the table. Periodically, they're looking at your bet size. They're inferring the number of rounds played based on time at the table.

If there's any doubt on your bet size, they'll gladly call surveillance to check... or more likely, they'll just assume your average is the lowest they saw.

You're going to get shorted on comps, even if they give you full credit for your bets. Don't feel bad about playing the game.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 84
  • Posts: 548
January 4th, 2015 at 9:35:43 PM permalink
There should be no ethical dilemma. It's the casinos responsibility to track and rate you accordingly. If you bet more when the pit is looking, so what?! One more thing, you don't know if the pit is actually rating your total action. I have found out from a supervisor that you are rated on your overall play which is suppose to factor in if you've been betting less and suddenly ramp up. In other words, it all averages out.

I use to employ a strategy of betting only when rolling the dice. Well guess what, the pit actually stopped rating me when I had no action.

If you have ethical dilemmas about this, then don't try to milk a comp. Its not uncommon for the supervisor to subtly.check with the rest of the pit on a players level of action.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 129
  • Posts: 16466
January 4th, 2015 at 10:04:10 PM permalink
Yes I agree Darkoz.

I believe We had a supposed supervisor/ dealer say if you don't tip enough, he will lie and and make sure you get no rating and marked as a card counter or possible cheat.

Casinos are very unethical. They will serve you booze until you pass out as long as your not being an ass. I guarantee you I can get 7 BIG shots (=to about 11) in a 1 HR from 1 person without a second though, and I don't weigh a lot.

Casinos will or have done the following.....

They retroactively screw people on promotions.

They have baited AP's to 86 them.

They have denied expired slot tickets.

They will go out of there way to entice you to lose your money.

They have unfairly kicked people out of their rooms.

They have knowingly illegally detained players.

They occasionally unfairly beat players.

They have denied cashing of chips.

They cheat at drawings.

They use slot keys to spy on each other.

I had the head of security tell me, he would lie and get his underlings to lie to metropolitan police to say he previously 86ed me and have me arrested for trespassing.

Employees will steal from you.

They don't want anyone with skill to play.

I've had machines cheat me and they refuse to compensate me.

I've had proof another customer took my cash out tickets and they refused to do anything.

They have lied in court.

They have knowingly let underage gamblers loose thousands.

They have voided payments on technicalities.

They have knowingly accused innocence players of serious crimes.

They knowingly faults advertise.

They will supply big players with illegal perks.(drugs, hookers)

They turn a blind eye to gamblers with million dollar addictions and even encourage people like that.

It's only an illusion that they want winners. They only want suckers to occasionally win.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
  • Threads: 43
  • Posts: 1737
January 5th, 2015 at 12:39:34 AM permalink
Axle what do you mean by"they use slot keys to spy on each other" ?
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 129
  • Posts: 16466
January 5th, 2015 at 1:46:20 AM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Axle what do you mean by"they use slot keys to spy on each other" ?

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/peppermill-casino-owners-agree-1-million-fine-over-use-slot-machine-reset-key
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
  • Threads: 43
  • Posts: 1737
January 5th, 2015 at 2:25:49 AM permalink
Thanks. I had forgotten about that incident. I agree with all the examples you gave. Back in the days when floor people did manual ratings they would just rip up your rating card and throw it away if they didn't like you.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1210
  • Posts: 20171
January 5th, 2015 at 5:21:43 AM permalink
Quote: dudestupid

Personally I think this is dishonest, ...



I don't. It is part of the cat and mouse game. It is like going a little slower when you see a cop up ahead. Furthermore, in my experience, it isn't even helpful. Most of the time when the floorman comes by you're in the middle of the hand and can't do anything about whatever you wagered. It is these "mid state" wagers that they tend to rely on.

Quote:

maybe somewhat worse than telling your wife she "looks nice" when she doesn't and somewhat less serious than pirating movies.



Nobody ever accused me of understanding the first thing about women. However, after 20 years of marriage, I've learned that your wife/GF ALWAYS looks nice.

Once my wife wore a hideous blouse composed of a little flower pattern. I told her it looked like Walt Disney threw up. She has been holding a grudge over that remark for years.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 261
  • Posts: 13694
January 5th, 2015 at 5:43:49 AM permalink
Heck, I always recommend that you start out with a good healthy bet and a good healthy Toke Bet for the Dealer too. The FloorPerson is still there doing your paper work and will see you "doing the Lord's work" as will the dealer(s). And you would eventually make a toke bet anyway so you might as well start out with the dealers favorably watching out for you.

As to an unbecoming blouse or some such thing .... if you've already left the house, you say nothing. If she still has an opportunity to change it, you say that you do not care for it, but "Honey, you know my fashion sense is worthless to you".

If its not a wife but a niece, you never make any comment about how she is dressed. Not ever. Not even to the cop on the street who mistakenly takes her attire as a sign of a certain profession. You say NOTHING about her attire.

  • Jump to: