Convinced about Dice Setter, What Would it Take?
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31 members have voted
You have seen all the slow-mo videos of this type of thing?Quote: AlanMendelsonI've seen those slo mo videos. They're not dice influencers. They're hucksters.
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FYI you don't need a "legit" DI producing a slow-mo video to understand what happens once the dice hit the table and back wall.
Quote: AxelWolfYou have seen all the slow-mo videos of this type of thing?Quote: AlanMendelsonI've seen those slo mo videos. They're not dice influencers. They're hucksters.
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FYI you don't need a "legit" DI producing a slow-mo video to understand what happens once the dice hit the table and back wall.
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I've never seen a video produced by a true DI.
I've seen three, maybe four true DIs playing at tables. None of them have produced a video.
Have you seen my dice sliding video on YouTube?
Gene
So it's either "Where there's smoke, there's fire" or "A sucker is born every minute."
I vote door number two.
Why hasn't some "dice influencer" set up a craps table in his garage and just videotaped himself throwing the dice 10-or-20,000 times and showing proof that he can hit certain numbers more than should be statistically possible?
Quote: GenoDRPhHas there even been a controlled experiment with these three, maybe four true DIs? Has any true DI agreed to a controlled experiment to test their hypothesis?
Gene
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Why would a true DI expose himself?
Do blackjack card counters expose themselves?
I got thrown out of 3 casinos -- MGM Grand, NYNY and Bellagio -- just because they SUSPECTED I was a DI.
Could you imagine the grief these guys would have if they showed themselves on Youtube???
Gene
You getting booted out of 3 casinos, or even just 1, because some pit boss believed you controlled dice proves nothing, other than pit bosses are gullible and lack critical reasoning skills.
So can you influence or control dice using a casino legal throw, to an extent that changes the house edge of a pass line bet with no odds from a -EV to a +EV?
Gene
Quote: AlanMendelson
Why would a true DI expose himself?
Do blackjack card counters expose themselves?
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Yes. Multiple members of the MIT blackjack team have exposed themselves. There are videos on YouTube of card counters. There are books written by card counters.
Even if you want to argue that many of those are FORMER card counters (especially the MIT guys), fine, but that just prompts the questions, where are all the FORMER DIs?
Where are all the "retired" DIs that don't need to hide their identity anymore and can prove what they can do, like we see with card counters?
Quote: GenoDRPhThese people expose themselves all time in their advertisements for their exclusive seminars. That cost at least 4 figures to attend. Coming soon to a city near you, but act fast! Attendance is limited!
You getting booted out of 3 casinos, or even just 1, because some pit boss believed you controlled dice proves nothing, other than pit bosses are gullible and lack critical reasoning skills.
So can you influence or control dice using a casino legal throw, to an extent that changes the house edge of a pass line bet with no odds from a -EV to a +EV?
Gene
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There you go... talking about the hucksters.
I promise you... the three guys I saw play were not selling anything.
One was a heart surgeon from Seattle. I played with him several times.
The other two I saw only once. They won a modest amount of money on their rolls and I never saw them again. What's modest? Only a couple thousand each.
Were they monster rolls? No.
Monster rolls are not required to be a DI. But the hucksters promote monster rolls.
All I need is a shooter who can hold the dice for ten minutes. That's all I ask.
Gene
These are NO WAY near the sample sizes needed to demonstrate DI. What you saw was variance with a veneer of technique.Quote: AlanMendelsonOne was a heart surgeon from Seattle. I played with him several times.Quote: GenoDRPhThese people expose themselves all time in their advertisements for their exclusive seminars. That cost at least 4 figures to attend. Coming soon to a city near you, but act fast! Attendance is limited!
You getting booted out of 3 casinos, or even just 1, because some pit boss believed you controlled dice proves nothing, other than pit bosses are gullible and lack critical reasoning skills.
So can you influence or control dice using a casino legal throw, to an extent that changes the house edge of a pass line bet with no odds from a -EV to a +EV?
Gene
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The other two I saw only once. They won a modest amount of money on their rolls and I never saw them again. What's modest? Only a couple thousand each.
Were they monster rolls? No.
Monster rolls are not required to be a DI. But the hucksters promote monster rolls.
All I need is a shooter who can hold the dice for ten minutes. That's all I ask.
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If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
Alan. To me a DI shooter is a..."[person] that can repeatedly influence the result of the dice using a casino legal throw, in a manner that will overcome the house edge in craps.**Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
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Is that what you believe was happening with these shooters?
**slightly modified quote from Soopoo's post a few pages back
So can you influence or control dice using a casino legal throw, to an extent that changes the house edge of a pass line bet with no odds from a -EV to a +EV?
Gene
Quote: UP84Alan. To me a DI shooter is a..."[person] that can repeatedly influence the result of the dice using a casino legal throw, in a manner that will overcome the house edge in craps.**Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
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Is that what you believe was happening with these shooters?
**slightly modified quote from Soopoo's post a few pages back
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The house edge is determined by the various combinations of the dice. No one overcomes the house edge.
Your question really is this: do they have a skill that allows them to minimize the appearance of the 7?
From what happened yes. The two shooters I saw only once only threw one 7 after about 10-15:minutes.
My friend the surgeon has had many good rolls. But does he also have point-sevens? Yes.
When I got booted from MGM and NYNY it was because I was having monster rolls and setting and throwing softly. Was I a true DI? No. But I was banned by both casinos from throwing.
At Bellagio the story was crazier. I threw 5-4 three times in a row with the dice leaning against the wall. Totally accidental but I was accused of being a mechanic.
Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
No offense Alan, but your credibility as a craps observer is suspect: hello, "18 yo's in a row."
I've never seen a DI, nor have I seen Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or Bigfoot, and I bet you really haven't either.
When is the last time you've been to a gaming bookstore or different gaming website? Most everything has in fact been exposed. It's been far too many years now for there to be no real evidence. I'm sorry Alan, but I can't accept your evidence. Your evidence is basically the fact that you witnessed a few guys that may have been winning who had some very good-looking shots. You haven't any idea if they had an advantage or if they were ahead overall. For all you know they're down hundreds of thousands overall.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: GenoDRPhHas there even been a controlled experiment with these three, maybe four true DIs? Has any true DI agreed to a controlled experiment to test their hypothesis?
Gene
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Why would a true DI expose himself?
Do blackjack card counters expose themselves?
I got thrown out of 3 casinos -- MGM Grand, NYNY and Bellagio -- just because they SUSPECTED I was a DI.
Could you imagine the grief these guys would have if they showed themselves on Youtube???
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It would be worth so much more to an individual who could prove they can do it than whatever it's worth playing it.
Gene
Gene
My mind is made up about the hucksters.
I am also realistic about DI.
In baseball a great hitter has maybe a .300 average.... and not 1.000
In golf great golfers miss putts.
Great quarterbacks get intercepted.
But on gambling forums, DIs must be perfect.
LOL
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas/amp/
Quote: GenoDRPhSo we've established that you admit to NOT using DI, or at least not being effective at it.
Gene
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I'm not a good shooter at all.
Quote: AlanMendelsonAxel no one will convince you about DI because your mind is made up.
My mind is made up about the hucksters.
I am also realistic about DI.
In baseball a great hitter has maybe a .300 average.... and not 1.000
In golf great golfers miss putts.
Great quarterbacks get intercepted.
But on gambling forums, DIs must be perfect.
LOL
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas/amp/
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Literally no one thinks DIs "must" be perfect.
But great hitters, great golfers, and great quarterbacks can prove their greatness from game to game and season to season.
Their skills are repeatedly demonstrable and verifiable.
Can anyone say the same for DIs?
Quote: AlanMendelson
Why would a true DI expose himself?
Do blackjack card counters expose themselves?
I got thrown out of 3 casinos -- MGM Grand, NYNY and Bellagio -- just because they SUSPECTED I was a DI.
Could you imagine the grief these guys would have if they showed themselves on Youtube???
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You state that you have been thrown out of casinos due to suspected influencing of the dice.
You similarly state that you do not, and can not, influence the dice.
The position that the casinos throw people out is proof of anything is self-invalidating.
Quote: AlanMendelson
There you go... talking about the hucksters.
I promise you... the three guys I saw play were not selling anything.
One was a heart surgeon from Seattle. I played with him several times.
The other two I saw only once. They won a modest amount of money on their rolls and I never saw them again. What's modest? Only a couple thousand each.
Were they monster rolls? No.
Monster rolls are not required to be a DI. But the hucksters promote monster rolls.
All I need is a shooter who can hold the dice for ten minutes. That's all I ask.
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For clarification, you're not suggesting that someone setting the dice and playing a profitable game of Craps over a period of ten minutes would satisfy you as proof of anything, right? I hit the six-point Fire Bet on one occasion, was setting the dice, cannot influence said dice and held the dice well over ten minutes.
There are evidentiary standards that can or can not be satisfied. Anything less and it's really just a matter of believing something because you want it to be true. Some say the detractors do not believe because they want it to be false, but I have no percentage in it being false; I'm simply just refusing to believe something unless and until it has been proven, more likely than not, to my satisfaction.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AlanMendelsonAxel no one will convince you about DI because your mind is made up.
My mind is made up about the hucksters.
I am also realistic about DI.
In baseball a great hitter has maybe a .300 average.... and not 1.000
In golf great golfers miss putts.
Great quarterbacks get intercepted.
But on gambling forums, DIs must be perfect.
LOL
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas/amp/
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Literally no one thinks DIs "must" be perfect.
But great hitters, great golfers, and great quarterbacks can prove their greatness from game to game and season to season.
Their skills are repeatedly demonstrable and verifiable.
Can anyone say the same for DIs?
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My friend the heart surgeon played with me about a half dozen times.
The other two guys I consider to be DIs played with me at Caesars only once each.
I guess the problem is there isn't a league of craps players with a regular schedule.
Gene
Quote: GenoDRPhWould you be willing to show the math on how minimizing the appearance of a seven impacts the possibility of winning a pass line bet with no odds, both with no point established, and after a point established?
Gene
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There is math that can be shown, but this seems like an unreasonable request unless the claim is that they weren't making an Odds bet. The Odds Bet having an expectation of $0.00 on literally any amount bet would be at an advantage (taken alone) even if a person could only influence the dice to avoid sevens to the most infinitesimal degree imaginable and the distribution of other results (relative to each other) remained equal.
Quote: AlanMendelson
I guess the problem is there isn't a league of craps players with a regular schedule.
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Honestly, I think watching craps on TV would be a lot more interesting than watching poker, so someone should get to work on that craps league.
Quote: Mission146Quote: AlanMendelson
There you go... talking about the hucksters.
I promise you... the three guys I saw play were not selling anything.
One was a heart surgeon from Seattle. I played with him several times.
The other two I saw only once. They won a modest amount of money on their rolls and I never saw them again. What's modest? Only a couple thousand each.
Were they monster rolls? No.
Monster rolls are not required to be a DI. But the hucksters promote monster rolls.
All I need is a shooter who can hold the dice for ten minutes. That's all I ask.
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For clarification, you're not suggesting that someone setting the dice and playing a profitable game of Craps over a period of ten minutes would satisfy you as proof of anything, right? I hit the six-point Fire Bet on one occasion, was setting the dice, cannot influence said dice and held the dice well over ten minutes.
There are evidentiary standards that can or can not be satisfied. Anything less and it's really just a matter of believing something because you want it to be true. Some say the detractors do not believe because they want it to be false, but I have no percentage in it being false; I'm simply just refusing to believe something unless and until it has been proven, more likely than not, to my satisfaction.
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A DI is defined by his toss. Do I have to say this again?
The dice are set.
The dice are released in unison.
The dice travel parallel to the table.
The dice bounce on the table together then gently bounce off the back wall just under the pyramids and roll back very little.
The dice hit the table and wall either on their flat surface or on the edge -- but not on the point or corner.
That is influencing the dice.
Any random shooter can make points and any random shooter can throw 18yos in a row.
That wasn’t due to DI. They threw you out due to your hedging strategy. Your bet combinations guaranteed a huge loss for the casinoQuote: AlanMendelson[
Why would a true DI expose himself?
Do blackjack card counters expose themselves?
I got thrown out of 3 casinos -- MGM Grand, NYNY and Bellagio -- just because they SUSPECTED I was a DI.
Quote: AlanMendelson
A DI is defined by his toss. Do I have to say this again?
The dice are set.
The dice are released in unison.
The dice travel parallel to the table.
The dice bounce on the table together then gently bounce off the back wall just under the pyramids and roll back very little.
The dice hit the table and wall either on their flat surface or on the edge -- but not on the point or corner.
That is influencing the dice.
Any random shooter can make points and any random shooter can throw 18yos in a row.
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Where is even hypothetical proof that this even could be done effectively enough to influence the probabilities to a sufficient degree? What you have described is merely throwing the dice in a consistent, and relatively orderly, fashion. That doesn't prove anything about creating an advantage.
If you want to suggest that qualifies as satisfying the conditions for, "Dice influencing," then I accept your position on the grounds that we define the term differently. Everything that you have stated is related to the mechanics.
Quote: Mission146Quote: AlanMendelson
A DI is defined by his toss. Do I have to say this again?
The dice are set.
The dice are released in unison.
The dice travel parallel to the table.
The dice bounce on the table together then gently bounce off the back wall just under the pyramids and roll back very little.
The dice hit the table and wall either on their flat surface or on the edge -- but not on the point or corner.
That is influencing the dice.
Any random shooter can make points and any random shooter can throw 18yos in a row.
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Where is even hypothetical proof that this even could be done effectively enough to influence the probabilities to a sufficient degree? What you have described is merely throwing the dice in a consistent, and relatively orderly, fashion. That doesn't prove anything about creating an advantage.
If you want to suggest that qualifies as satisfying the conditions for, "Dice influencing," then I accept your position on the grounds that we define the term differently. Everything that you have stated is related to the mechanics.
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Exactly. Dice influencing refers to the mechanics. The art of throwing dice.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Exactly. Dice influencing refers to the mechanics. The art of throwing dice.
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That they look pretty is immaterial to me if they are not doing something related to the expected financial outcomes.
Quote: Mission146Quote: AlanMendelson
Exactly. Dice influencing refers to the mechanics. The art of throwing dice.
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That they look pretty is immaterial to me if they are not doing something related to the expected financial outcomes.
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You want dice CONTROL. There is no dice control.
As soon as your dice hit the table control ends.
You're now hoping that the movement of the dice will be limited to either increase the chance of a 7 or minimize the chance of a 7.
I use the cross sizes set. If one of my dice rotates two faces I will get a 7 (6-1)
I'm hoping that by minimizing the rotation or having both dice rotate that I can avoid a 7.
But no one can control dice so they rotate on command.
All you can do is hope you've limited the movement of the dice.
.Quote: UP84Alan. To me a DI shooter is a..."[person] that can repeatedly influence the result of the dice using a casino legal throw, in a manner that will overcome the house edge in craps.**Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
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Is that what you believe was happening with these shooters?
**slightly modified quote from Soopoo's post a few pages back
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There can be nothing less important than what Alan believes about DI. He convinced himself he saw 18 yo’s rolled in a row. He made a nearly equally ridiculous assertion about number of royals hit in VP. It would not take much for a hot roll to convince him the guy is a DI.
Alan upthread said that I influence the dice while rolling Dem bones. I have stated that I consider ‘dice influence’ to be able alter the frequencies of rolls in a way that will overcome the house edge in craps. By my definition, I do NOT influence the dice.
Quote: SOOPOO.Quote: UP84Alan. To me a DI shooter is a..."[person] that can repeatedly influence the result of the dice using a casino legal throw, in a manner that will overcome the house edge in craps.**Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
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Is that what you believe was happening with these shooters?
**slightly modified quote from Soopoo's post a few pages back
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There can be nothing less important than what Alan believes about DI. He convinced himself he saw 18 yo’s rolled in a row. He made a nearly equally ridiculous assertion about number of royals hit in VP. It would not take much for a hot roll to convince him the guy is a DI.
Alan upthread said that I influence the dice while rolling Dem bones. I have stated that I consider ‘dice influence’ to be able alter the frequencies of rolls in a way that will overcome the house edge in craps. By my definition, I do NOT influence the dice.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas/amp/
So, just to clarify, does that mean that you do not believe there are any players who can expect to win long term at craps based on the dice throwing technique they use?Quote: AlanMendelsonThe house edge is determined by the various combinations of the dice. No one overcomes the house edge.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: SOOPOO.Quote: UP84Alan. To me a DI shooter is a..."[person] that can repeatedly influence the result of the dice using a casino legal throw, in a manner that will overcome the house edge in craps.**Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
link to original post
Is that what you believe was happening with these shooters?
**slightly modified quote from Soopoo's post a few pages back
link to original post
There can be nothing less important than what Alan believes about DI. He convinced himself he saw 18 yo’s rolled in a row. He made a nearly equally ridiculous assertion about number of royals hit in VP. It would not take much for a hot roll to convince him the guy is a DI.
Alan upthread said that I influence the dice while rolling Dem bones. I have stated that I consider ‘dice influence’ to be able alter the frequencies of rolls in a way that will overcome the house edge in craps. By my definition, I do NOT influence the dice.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas/amp/
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Dice sliding is not a legal maneuver. At any casino. I never have said there are not illegal ways to influence the dice. Loaded dice, dice sliding, are two examples.
Quote: UP84So, just to clarify, does that mean that you do not believe there are any players who can expect to win long term at craps based on the dice throwing technique they use?Quote: AlanMendelsonThe house edge is determined by the various combinations of the dice. No one overcomes the house edge.
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They need luck and skill because no one CONTROLS dice.
That's a non responsive answer. Please just directly answer my question, yes or no.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: UP84So, just to clarify, does that mean that you do not believe there are any players who can expect to win long term at craps based on the dice throwing technique they use?Quote: AlanMendelsonThe house edge is determined by the various combinations of the dice. No one overcomes the house edge.
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They need luck and skill because no one CONTROLS dice.
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Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: SOOPOO.Quote: UP84Alan. To me a DI shooter is a..."[person] that can repeatedly influence the result of the dice using a casino legal throw, in a manner that will overcome the house edge in craps.**Quote: AlanMendelsonUP84 if that makes you happy... that's what I saw.
If variance applies to the action of gently throwing two dice, how they travel, how they hit the table and the wall, and how gently they bounce off the wall under the pyramids... then call it variance.
link to original post
Is that what you believe was happening with these shooters?
**slightly modified quote from Soopoo's post a few pages back
link to original post
There can be nothing less important than what Alan believes about DI. He convinced himself he saw 18 yo’s rolled in a row. He made a nearly equally ridiculous assertion about number of royals hit in VP. It would not take much for a hot roll to convince him the guy is a DI.
Alan upthread said that I influence the dice while rolling Dem bones. I have stated that I consider ‘dice influence’ to be able alter the frequencies of rolls in a way that will overcome the house edge in craps. By my definition, I do NOT influence the dice.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/couple-accused-of-dice-sliding-at-wynn-las-vegas/amp/
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Dice sliding is not a legal maneuver. At any casino. I never have said there are not illegal ways to influence the dice. Loaded dice, dice sliding, are two examples.
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Well sliding is the only way to CONTROL dice.
If you want CONTROL find yourself a dice slider.
I'll show you how it's done.
Quote: UP84That's a non responsive answer. Please just directly answer my question, yes or no.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: UP84So, just to clarify, does that mean that you do not believe there are any players who can expect to win long term at craps based on the dice throwing technique they use?Quote: AlanMendelsonThe house edge is determined by the various combinations of the dice. No one overcomes the house edge.
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They need luck and skill because no one CONTROLS dice.
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I can't predict how well someone is going to shoot. Can you?
The longest rolls I've been on have been thrown by random shooters with dice bouncing all over.
That kid who threw 18 yes in s row was a random shooter with the dice bouncing all over.
This morning at Red Rock a RANDOM shooter made 6 passes. Three of the passes were 10s, two were 6s, one was a 5.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: UP84That's a non responsive answer. Please just directly answer my question, yes or no.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: UP84So, just to clarify, does that mean that you do not believe there are any players who can expect to win long term at craps based on the dice throwing technique they use?Quote: AlanMendelsonThe house edge is determined by the various combinations of the dice. No one overcomes the house edge.
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They need luck and skill because no one CONTROLS dice.
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I can't predict how well someone is going to shoot. Can you?
The longest rolls I've been on have been thrown by random shooters with dice bouncing all over.
That kid who threw 18 yes in s row was a random shooter with the dice bouncing all over.
This morning at Red Rock a RANDOM shooter made 6 passes. Three of the passes were 10s, two were 6s, one was a 5.
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There was no kid who rolled 18 yo’s in a row.
All shooters are random.
Carry on….
Quote: AlanMendelson
You want dice CONTROL. There is no dice control.
As soon as your dice hit the table control ends.
You're now hoping that the movement of the dice will be limited to either increase the chance of a 7 or minimize the chance of a 7.
I use the cross sizes set. If one of my dice rotates two faces I will get a 7 (6-1)
I'm hoping that by minimizing the rotation or having both dice rotate that I can avoid a 7.
But no one can control dice so they rotate on command.
All you can do is hope you've limited the movement of the dice.
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I don't, "Want," or, "Not want," anything, but I totally agree there is no dice control. I look at, 'Control,' as being like a Video Game controller, I hit 'A' and Mario jumps, if Mario does not jump when I hit, 'A,' then either the controller or game is not functioning properly, or the controller is not plugged in.
With that, I would say, "Dice control," would be someone says it will always be a six and it is always a six, which would take a sample size of a very few number of rolls to quickly disprove.
I agree as to your description of the goal of influencing the dice, but I'm having trouble understanding the apparent disconnect as to why you think the probabilities and house edge are always fixed (even for a DI) when you yourself are describing a DI's attempt to change the probability of a seven now.
Gene
Quote: Mission146Quote: AlanMendelson
You want dice CONTROL. There is no dice control.
As soon as your dice hit the table control ends.
You're now hoping that the movement of the dice will be limited to either increase the chance of a 7 or minimize the chance of a 7.
I use the cross sizes set. If one of my dice rotates two faces I will get a 7 (6-1)
I'm hoping that by minimizing the rotation or having both dice rotate that I can avoid a 7.
But no one can control dice so they rotate on command.
All you can do is hope you've limited the movement of the dice.
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I don't, "Want," or, "Not want," anything, but I totally agree there is no dice control. I look at, 'Control,' as being like a Video Game controller, I hit 'A' and Mario jumps, if Mario does not jump when I hit, 'A,' then either the controller or game is not functioning properly, or the controller is not plugged in.
With that, I would say, "Dice control," would be someone says it will always be a six and it is always a six, which would take a sample size of a very few number of rolls to quickly disprove.
I agree as to your description of the goal of influencing the dice, but I'm having trouble understanding the apparent disconnect as to why you think the probabilities and house edge are always fixed (even for a DI) when you yourself are describing a DI's attempt to change the probability of a seven now.
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I understand there's confusion when I say the house edge is fixed. I'm using edge and odds interchangeably. My bad.
In plain talk the goal of a DI is to hit more winning numbers. If you want to call that changing the house edge then so be it.
But when I think if house edge I think of the number of combinations that make 7 vs the combinations that make 4 and they don't change.
Again my bad.
Ok, thanks that clears things up a bit. And just to clarify further...do you believe there are DI shooters out there...ie. shooters who can use their skill to repeatedly hit more winning numbers? I will NOT be judgmental on your response on this one way or the other, I'm just trying to understand what you believe.Quote: AlanMendelsonIn plain talk the goal of a DI is to hit more winning numbers. If you want to call that changing the house edge then so be it.
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