Ahigh
October 18th, 2013 at 11:41:59 AM
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Suggestion to Ahigh for his "one man lab": install a foot pedal to start and stop the recording, or simply "speak" your commands (just say "boo") instead of requiring your system to listen for the sound of the dice hitting the table.
October 18th, 2013 at 11:42:07 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote:there are no creative variables. Folks, this stuff has been researched for 20 years. There is nothing new here. Its all been worked out and done before.
Geez, what are you a member of the flat earth society?
Remember, the U.S. patent office was close once because everything that could be invented already had been.
]
October 18th, 2013 at 11:54:17 AM
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Quote: petroglyph
Geez, what are you a member of the flat earth society?
Remember, the U.S. patent office was close once because everything that could be invented already had been.]
Look if you think there is something different about the physics of a craps table, and throwing dice, let's hear it. Don't make ridiculous comments about a flat earth society. There is nothing new here guys. Nothing in terms of dice influencing or dice control or even video production.
October 18th, 2013 at 12:21:21 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonLook if you think there is something different about the physics of a craps table, and throwing dice, let's hear it. Don't make ridiculous comments about a flat earth society. There is nothing new here guys. Nothing in terms of dice influencing or dice control or even video production.
First, my comment was meant good naturedly not derogatory.
I concur, there is no original thought.
It's just that over thousands of years and billions of minds thinking, we aren't aware of all those thought angles.
I agree the math never changes it is a constant. But Jesse Owens didn't believe the mile couldn't be run in under 4 minutes.
October 18th, 2013 at 1:49:12 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonSuggestion to Ahigh for his "one man lab": install a foot pedal to start and stop the recording, or simply "speak" your commands (just say "boo") instead of requiring your system to listen for the sound of the dice hitting the table.
That's a good idea. The FFT solution is likely simpler, but I was also thinking along the lines of voice recognition too in order to be able to make calls on the outcome as well. If I do voice recognition, it would really be a second choice as I prefer to be able to shoot without saying anything at all, I just don't always get the luxury of a quiet environment is all.
Also, I want the computer to see the outcomes instead of having to state the outcomes.
Once I start writing the vision algorithms, the audio cue can just be a hint that gets verified by seeing movement in the previous few frames. But I still want the fft because I can imagine just talking and having movement is still going to be a false trigger.
aahigh.com
October 18th, 2013 at 4:11:39 PM
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Another question for Ahigh: wouldn't you want your system to record the dice before they hit the table? I would think having a trigger that starts the recording when the dice hit the table would miss important information about the dice hitting.
October 18th, 2013 at 4:34:11 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonAnother question for Ahigh: wouldn't you want your system to record the dice before they hit the table? I would think having a trigger that starts the recording when the dice hit the table would miss important information about the dice hitting.
Really? Can someone else answer this one for me?
aahigh.com
October 18th, 2013 at 4:40:46 PM
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Don't you want to see if the dice hit the table flat, or on a corner? Would your current program show that or just the dice bouncing off?
October 18th, 2013 at 4:52:21 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonDon't you want to see if the dice hit the table flat, or on a corner? Would your current program show that or just the dice bouncing off?
It's beneath him to answer you, so I'll tell you. When the equipment picks up the sound of the dice hitting it automatically starts the recording, but first it grabs some video out of it's cache (I can't rrmber how far back. 1/2 second maybe), so when you view it it shows the dice coming down to hit the table.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
October 18th, 2013 at 5:26:05 PM
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Quote: Zcore13It's beneath him to answer you, so I'll tell you. When the equipment picks up the sound of the dice hitting it automatically starts the recording, but first it grabs some video out of it's cache (I can't rrmber how far back. 1/2 second maybe), so when you view it it shows the dice coming down to hit the table.
It strikes me as perhaps easier, or at least less equipment-intensive (video only, vs. sound + video) to simply do a motion-detect on any camera to start the capture. Any frame where the dice are off-screen is obviously irrelevant, so just start the capture when the dice enter the frame from above. And you'd use a similar motion-detect to end the recording after the dice come to rest (plus a few frames to ID the result). That way you don't need to worry about noisy environments at all.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 18th, 2013 at 5:41:14 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistIt strikes me as perhaps easier, or at least less equipment-intensive (video only, vs. sound + video) to simply do a motion-detect on any camera to start the capture. Any frame where the dice are off-screen is obviously irrelevant, so just start the capture when the dice enter the frame from above. And you'd use a similar motion-detect to end the recording after the dice come to rest (plus a few frames to ID the result). That way you don't need to worry about noisy environments at all.
Easier in design maybe, but not necessarily implementation.
n = audio->GetSampleFrameCount();
audio->GetBytes( ( void ** ) &buffer );
fft( m_InputId, buffer, n );
short min = buffer[0];
short max = buffer[0];
int i;
for( i=1; i<n*2; i++ )
{
if( buffer<min ) min = buffer;
else if( buffer>max ) max = buffer;
}
if( max - min > 600 )
{
constamp = msec();
// printf( "Min max %d %d\n", min, max );
}
if( max - min > 8000 )
{
if( !hitstamp || ( msec() - hitstamp > 5000 ) )
{
hitstamp = msec();
printf( "HIT! %d\n", max - min );
}
}
Here's the audio implementation. "con" means enough noise to continue and hit is enough noise to trigger a hit. This is just placeholder, but the point is that it was very easily to implement, and certainly easier than a motion detection algorithm. But I think for the long term, you need both, not just one.
aahigh.com
October 18th, 2013 at 5:57:40 PM
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I would expect that you'd use a pre-built motion detection algorithm, just like you're using a pre-built FFT algorithm.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
October 18th, 2013 at 10:58:50 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistI would expect that you'd use a pre-built motion detection algorithm, just like you're using a pre-built FFT algorithm.
That's a good idea. Video compression algorithms are based on discerning what has changed from frame to frame.
October 18th, 2013 at 11:54:29 PM
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I'm not sure if they are still made this way, but there use to be mics for acoustic instrument that rest directly on the chamber area, more like a mic that picks up vibration.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 19th, 2013 at 12:51:30 AM
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Well, I did some simple work that is pretty effective. Where there is background noise, it usually comes in more gradually. So I look for sharp rises in the volume levels. I basically store a volume-level at each frame for the previous 30 frames or half a second and I look for very sharp rises in the volume level from very quiet to loud enough to be dice. My wife just came down and started talking and going through the fridge, and it didn't trigger even when she was talking in a relatively loud voice and also when she shut the fridge it didn't trigger (because the fridge shut wasn't an explosive enough sound to trigger). So that was good.
If I clap my hands, that will trigger it, though. So less about frequency and more about sharpness or attack of the waveform.
It's not using the FFT at all right now, but it's working pretty good.
I also added an option to just hit a key to optionally remove any unwanted recording. IE: it's better to go ahead and record and ask if you want to toss the recording than to miss a recording because it wasn't triggered. So that helps tremendously too. So when everything is going smooth you don't have to hit something, but you can hit something if you get an accidental fire to sort of throw away an unwanted recording basically.
Thanks for all the ideas guys. But yeah, I will be doing plenty of image space stuff, but I would prefer to do that not during the capture phase. The bandwidth needed to capture 5 raw 60fps high definition signals simultaneously is demanding enough that I don't really want to add too much code to do a lot of processing while it's capturing frames.
Once the raw data is captured, processing can be done, but I'm really looking to get a good clean capture just based on audio queues, and I think I'm on my way. The only other thing I think I need is a baseline ambient volume to normalize to the minimal volume level (when it's assumed that everything is as quiet as it's going to get). I think that should be easy to add, though. Maybe a few tuning variables or commands to calibrate the sound with a sound-check, but that can all come later.
If I clap my hands, that will trigger it, though. So less about frequency and more about sharpness or attack of the waveform.
It's not using the FFT at all right now, but it's working pretty good.
I also added an option to just hit a key to optionally remove any unwanted recording. IE: it's better to go ahead and record and ask if you want to toss the recording than to miss a recording because it wasn't triggered. So that helps tremendously too. So when everything is going smooth you don't have to hit something, but you can hit something if you get an accidental fire to sort of throw away an unwanted recording basically.
Thanks for all the ideas guys. But yeah, I will be doing plenty of image space stuff, but I would prefer to do that not during the capture phase. The bandwidth needed to capture 5 raw 60fps high definition signals simultaneously is demanding enough that I don't really want to add too much code to do a lot of processing while it's capturing frames.
Once the raw data is captured, processing can be done, but I'm really looking to get a good clean capture just based on audio queues, and I think I'm on my way. The only other thing I think I need is a baseline ambient volume to normalize to the minimal volume level (when it's assumed that everything is as quiet as it's going to get). I think that should be easy to add, though. Maybe a few tuning variables or commands to calibrate the sound with a sound-check, but that can all come later.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 2:44:26 AM
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Why is this thing turning into a Rube Goldberg machine?
Any alarm store/electronics store already stocks motion and sound detectors that can trigger the system. Easier and lower cost would be a simple foot button to press at the shooting position.
I may have missed it earlier but what is being done to check the grip and release of the dice from the hand, since it is the grip and release which is probably the most difficult part of dice influencing/control. You have no control over the bounce or how the dice bounce -- but you need to see how the dice were gripped and released in order to fine tune your delivery.
to be honest, it doesn't matter how the dice bounce. What matters is did you hold the dice properly, release them properly? Did they stick? Did you get the right angle? was the arm swing proper? Did you have a fluid follow through to the center of the back wall?
Once the dice have left your hand its out of your control.
And getting back to what Wong said: just putting a sheet of aluminum foil to see if the dice hit on their sides or edges vs. hitting on corners is enough to determine if the dice are hitting the table properly. No dice influencer can really influence the exact numbers they are getting so why bother to keep track? What you want to keep track of is how your grip and delivery and hit on the table look like... and the rest is up to fate.
Any alarm store/electronics store already stocks motion and sound detectors that can trigger the system. Easier and lower cost would be a simple foot button to press at the shooting position.
I may have missed it earlier but what is being done to check the grip and release of the dice from the hand, since it is the grip and release which is probably the most difficult part of dice influencing/control. You have no control over the bounce or how the dice bounce -- but you need to see how the dice were gripped and released in order to fine tune your delivery.
to be honest, it doesn't matter how the dice bounce. What matters is did you hold the dice properly, release them properly? Did they stick? Did you get the right angle? was the arm swing proper? Did you have a fluid follow through to the center of the back wall?
Once the dice have left your hand its out of your control.
And getting back to what Wong said: just putting a sheet of aluminum foil to see if the dice hit on their sides or edges vs. hitting on corners is enough to determine if the dice are hitting the table properly. No dice influencer can really influence the exact numbers they are getting so why bother to keep track? What you want to keep track of is how your grip and delivery and hit on the table look like... and the rest is up to fate.
October 19th, 2013 at 7:50:46 AM
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<deleted>
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 7:52:53 AM
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Alan
And getting back to what Wong said: just putting a sheet of aluminum foil to see if the dice hit on their sides or edges vs. hitting on corners is enough to determine if the dice are hitting the table properly. No dice influencer can really influence the exact numbers they are getting so why bother to keep track? What you want to keep track of is how your grip and delivery and hit on the table look like... and the rest is up to fate.
This is pretty good stuff, except for one thing...
What you want to keep track of is how your grip and delivery and hit on the table look like.
There is no reason to worry about your grip, delivery or where or how the dice hit the table
if it makes no difference.
Dicesetter
And getting back to what Wong said: just putting a sheet of aluminum foil to see if the dice hit on their sides or edges vs. hitting on corners is enough to determine if the dice are hitting the table properly. No dice influencer can really influence the exact numbers they are getting so why bother to keep track? What you want to keep track of is how your grip and delivery and hit on the table look like... and the rest is up to fate.
This is pretty good stuff, except for one thing...
What you want to keep track of is how your grip and delivery and hit on the table look like.
There is no reason to worry about your grip, delivery or where or how the dice hit the table
if it makes no difference.
Dicesetter
October 19th, 2013 at 8:01:39 AM
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<deleted>
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 11:12:50 AM
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Quote: dicesitter
There is no reason to worry about your grip, delivery or where or how the dice hit the table
if it makes no difference.
Now we come to the question of reality vs fantasy. If you think you control or influence the dice after they hit the table then yes, go ahead and keep track of everything from the time you pick up the dice to the time they come to rest on the table.
I think that if you pick up the dice properly, grip them properly and throw them properly so that they bounce properly at the right location on the table (center table, towards the flat part of the back wall, with a gentle bounce) you have done all you can.
Ahigh's device would clearly show -- if it was directed to -- your release and the bounce. If I knew what happened with my release and with my bounce (that info alone) it would help me improve my shot.
Case in point: when we were married at the craps table at Caesars, Caesars had a videographer and a still photographer. After the ceremony I got some photos of us all playing craps. I actually have some shots of the dice coming out of my hand on several tosses. In those shots I can see how my dice (using the cross sixes set) actually started to rotate as soon as the dice left my fingers. I have one of those photos framed in my office. When friends see it they say "wow a shot of a true dice controller." And I say: "No. That's a photo of a failed dice controller -- look at how the dice are starting to rotate."
So Dicesetter, my position is that in the first second of your release it's ordained whether you will have a good roll or not. That first second will tell you if the dice are on axis, what the level and point of release are -- and the video will tell you if the force and swing were proper, plus how they bounced on the table. That is actually more important than what happens after the initial bounce. Remember: on a real craps table with other players there are chips in your way and if you are having a great roll eventually there will be chips all over the table. If you can only throw well at an "empty table" it's not going to do you any good in a real casino.
I think Ahigh should put more emphasis on recording and tracking the release and the dice travelling and especially the bounce -- much, much more important.
October 19th, 2013 at 12:00:10 PM
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Alan
I understand what your saying, and i am not trying to disagree,i simply ask if everything
you have done is undone the second the dice hit the table, why would you do anything in
the first place, and what ever ahigh does and however many hundreds of hours i practice
has no bearing on anything.
That comes down to an agument of your going to shoot me, and the compromise position
is not lets talk about it, it is well it that going to be tomorrow or the next day. There is only
one winner.
I know you know this game, and we agree on 90% of it, but where we differ is on what
happens after the dice hit the table.
I say controlling the number of times a dice bounces after it hits the table wll vary the
result some, You say once the dice hit the table the game is over.
If that is true than any documentation over thousands of rolls should always produce a result
that is 100% random.... and it does not for some people.
dicesetter
I understand what your saying, and i am not trying to disagree,i simply ask if everything
you have done is undone the second the dice hit the table, why would you do anything in
the first place, and what ever ahigh does and however many hundreds of hours i practice
has no bearing on anything.
That comes down to an agument of your going to shoot me, and the compromise position
is not lets talk about it, it is well it that going to be tomorrow or the next day. There is only
one winner.
I know you know this game, and we agree on 90% of it, but where we differ is on what
happens after the dice hit the table.
I say controlling the number of times a dice bounces after it hits the table wll vary the
result some, You say once the dice hit the table the game is over.
If that is true than any documentation over thousands of rolls should always produce a result
that is 100% random.... and it does not for some people.
dicesetter
October 19th, 2013 at 12:01:36 PM
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Just so we can restrict the conversation to analysis of my software instead of picking apart my shot, here's Tony helping me test the software this morning:
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_02.mp4
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_03.mp4
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_04.mp4
This camera angle lets you see the trajectory of the dice as they spin through the air by visually being aligned with the initial trajectory to let you see how the dice are either rotating together or not.
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_02.mp4
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_03.mp4
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_04.mp4
This camera angle lets you see the trajectory of the dice as they spin through the air by visually being aligned with the initial trajectory to let you see how the dice are either rotating together or not.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 12:14:14 PM
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[delete]
October 19th, 2013 at 12:57:28 PM
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Quote: dicesitterI understand what your saying, and i am not trying to disagree,i simply ask if everything
you have done is undone the second the dice hit the table, why would you do anything in
the first place,
"Fate" does not mean that everything you did was "undone" when the dice hit the table. How the dice hit the table is determined by your grip and throw, and your grip and throw and how the dice hit the table will help to determine how the dice continue in their path. Therefore, the most important part of the process is your grip and throw. Get the grip and throw right (including the release) and you will do fine with "fate."
think of basketball which is what I played in school. when it comes to shooting foul shots we were taught and practiced muscle memory (same as in DI in craps): do the same thing over and over again and you won't miss the free throws. You grip the ball, you go through the motion of the shot, you aim. The basket doesn't change its height, the distance to the basket doesnt change -- if your delivery is the same each and every time the ball will go into the basket each and every time. Same theory in craps shooting.
October 19th, 2013 at 1:15:08 PM
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Quote: AhighJust so we can restrict the conversation to analysis of my software instead of picking apart my shot, here's Tony helping me test the software this morning:
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/r111_02.mp4
to be honest, I think the most important angle you have is the table-level angle showing the dice leaving the player's hand and the spin. that is very useful.
Another camera angle showing the front view which might capture the release and grip would also be helpful. Obviously this shooter wasn't trying to influence the dice but in the case of someone who set and gripped the dice as a DI would those two camera angles would be very helpful.
I am wondering if you might be able to embed a mini lens inside the back wall to get a "wall view" of the dice? I am imagining the possibility of having three cameras -- low, middle, high -- inside the wall showing how the dice hit the wall? Now that would be unique and extremely helpful. It would mean not just seeing how the dice are released and hit the table but now you would see if the dice hit the back wall "square" which is what is needed for a clean bounce off of the pyramids. Perhaps inserting the mini lenses in the depressions between the pyramids?
edited to add:
Ahigh let me ask you this basic question: what do you want your system to show or prove? There is nothing new about the techology that you are using. The question is the "application." You must have a purpose for the application. Im sure it's not just for keeping track of rolls of the dice or even to track the movements of the dice, alone. So what is it?
October 19th, 2013 at 2:16:26 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonThere is nothing new about the technology that you are using.
What is new is my software. I am eliminating a lot of work editing and creating videos so that I can create a database of compressed information that documents each shot made for a shooting session. It's about 2.5MB per camera per shot to store. So about 10MB per shot means that with a 1TB hard drive, I can store over 100,000 shots. Once I have the ability to record all of this data in a format that is ideally compressed and edited, the process of developing a computer vision algorithm that can go through all the data and convert everything to animation data can be made.
This is not a new idea. I had this idea years ago.
This is not an idea that I have been keeping to myself. I even created a you tube video that I very expressly described exactly what my plan was in order to do this.
You have to listen to the whole video and understand what I'm describing. But I included this video earlier in this thread. I know at least one person listened and understood. There are a lot of parts and pieces to this project, and I'm pretty sure that at least five people understand what I'm talking about in terms of how I intend to capture the bounce in detail for tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of throws.
Basically this automatic recording software just simply eliminates 100% of the labor of throwing out all the high bandwidth data of just continuously recording from multiple cameras for hours and hours and asking someone to do the editing for me.
It baffles my brain how you can say that this is not new technology. At least assuming you consider software to be technology, which I think is a fair assumption.
And you, of all people, should understand the value of editing video. All these videos I have been posting are 100% completely created without pressing a single key. That's what new. You just run the program, shoot the dice, and out pops videos.
I am going to also be creating a way to nagivate and query these videos to say be able to pull up groups of rolls that meet certain criteria once I get a database of throw videos built up.
But so far, I haven't made a single throw into the database. All the throws are just for testing the software. Not for satisfying anyone else's demands for what they think I should be doing. I'm doing the work, I'm paying for the equipment, so I get to choose how I do it.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 2:25:59 PM
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Okay, I watched it. I admit I don't understand it one bit.
I understand the value of having a camera record the dice and the throw to see how the throw influences the dice and if the dice are doing what you want them to do. But after that you lost me.
I understand the value of having a camera record the dice and the throw to see how the throw influences the dice and if the dice are doing what you want them to do. But after that you lost me.
October 19th, 2013 at 2:30:27 PM
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I don't expect everyone to understand. But when I worked with Nintendo way back in 1994, 1995, producing PilotWings 64 in 1996 for the Nintendo 64, I researched and determined how to deal with animation data to create the game code that animates all the 3d animations in that game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion
What I learned about is what is known as a Quaternion. This is just a way to store computer animation data. It is very compact and convenient.
I've now used quaternions and created animation systems in video games for over a decade. It's easy stuff for me to do.
I am going to convert all the rolls into basically a tiny amount of information that represents EXACTLY where the left and right die originated and exactly where the left and right die ended. To the nearest sub-millimeter!
It's effectively just exactly what they do in video games, except usually they are capturing the motion of a human figure instead of cubes.
Cubes is very very easy.
Maybe that helps?
If you need more information on how motion capture works, here's a link on that stuff in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_capture
Doing a single rigid body of a cube is about the easiest motion capture problem there is. So it's not going to be hard(!!!)
All this editing software is just to build a database of hundreds of thousands of throws enough to fill up a hard drive that can be used to create a database of position and orientation of dice for each throw so that I can VERY quickly go through the very compact animation data (probably less than 100MB of animation data for 100,000 throws) which can be quickly processed, compared, reviewed, overlaid, etc.
I want to be able to get through somewhere around 200 rolls per hour fully edited and done. It is still going to take a REALLY LONG TIME to record that many throws. But there is NO WAY I would be able to afford to have someone manually edit all that stuff for me. Just impossible! I mean I couldn't afford it, and no way would I do it myself.
At some point I will be testing to see how many rolls per hour I can get done and recorded. That will be a game in and of itself to challenge myself to roll as many rolls as possible in an hour while still doing an acceptable amount of effort towards a controlled toss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion
What I learned about is what is known as a Quaternion. This is just a way to store computer animation data. It is very compact and convenient.
I've now used quaternions and created animation systems in video games for over a decade. It's easy stuff for me to do.
I am going to convert all the rolls into basically a tiny amount of information that represents EXACTLY where the left and right die originated and exactly where the left and right die ended. To the nearest sub-millimeter!
It's effectively just exactly what they do in video games, except usually they are capturing the motion of a human figure instead of cubes.
Cubes is very very easy.
Maybe that helps?
If you need more information on how motion capture works, here's a link on that stuff in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_capture
Doing a single rigid body of a cube is about the easiest motion capture problem there is. So it's not going to be hard(!!!)
All this editing software is just to build a database of hundreds of thousands of throws enough to fill up a hard drive that can be used to create a database of position and orientation of dice for each throw so that I can VERY quickly go through the very compact animation data (probably less than 100MB of animation data for 100,000 throws) which can be quickly processed, compared, reviewed, overlaid, etc.
I want to be able to get through somewhere around 200 rolls per hour fully edited and done. It is still going to take a REALLY LONG TIME to record that many throws. But there is NO WAY I would be able to afford to have someone manually edit all that stuff for me. Just impossible! I mean I couldn't afford it, and no way would I do it myself.
At some point I will be testing to see how many rolls per hour I can get done and recorded. That will be a game in and of itself to challenge myself to roll as many rolls as possible in an hour while still doing an acceptable amount of effort towards a controlled toss.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 2:40:02 PM
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I understand what you are doing and what your system will show but the question is: HOW WILL I USE IT??
October 19th, 2013 at 2:40:30 PM
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And in response to other people talking about what is important. The only thing that is important is that all the data is there. Even if I didn't have the camera showing the initial trajectory, if I know the initial set used, I can actually solve for the starting position of the dice using physics and known constants like acceleration due to gravity and so on. IE: you don't see the initial arch of the throw, but the computer can actually figure it out anyway. It can't figure out how the dice were being held, but it can reasonably figure out exactly where they were let go.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 2:41:31 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonI understand what you are doing and what your system will show but the question is: HOW WILL I USE IT??
Who said you were going to use it? And why do all your questions come across as being so demanding? When I asked you to wash my car, it was just to vent a little bit about the questions you ask me.
But let me answer that question:
I'm not making this for you, personally, to use this.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 2:53:42 PM
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ok we are on the same page.
In terms of what ahigh is doing, I like the idea, it would be interesting to have
a real good set up. but mine tells me what i need to know since i feel what i do before
the dice hit the table dictates to a large extent what happens after they hit the table.
dicesetter
In terms of what ahigh is doing, I like the idea, it would be interesting to have
a real good set up. but mine tells me what i need to know since i feel what i do before
the dice hit the table dictates to a large extent what happens after they hit the table.
dicesetter
October 19th, 2013 at 2:58:02 PM
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If I am not going to use it (which means other players are not going to use it), why are you showing it to us here?
Wow, should I tell everyone about my plans for my next Infomercial shoot about a chain of dentist offices?
Wow, should I tell everyone about my plans for my next Infomercial shoot about a chain of dentist offices?
October 19th, 2013 at 4:19:28 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonIf I am not going to use it (which means other players are not going to use it), why are you showing it to us here?
Wow, should I tell everyone about my plans for my next Infomercial shoot about a chain of dentist offices?
That makes no sense at all. Infomercials about dentists don't belong on a forum about gambling, but maybe someone else should answer your question about if you should do that.
Alan, just stop posting in this thread. It's pretty obvious that you don't really want to be helpful at all and you just want to bicker and ask questions that already have answers. All of your questions could be summed up as "I don't get it" and "why are you doing this?"
Just stop worrying about it. And I am very sorry if what I am doing seems to not make sense for you to spend time thinking about. And please, for the love of god, please stop telling me what I need to do about recording a shot or whatever.
If it helps you sleep at night, just know that, with the exception of some of the negative comments from you and others stating that what I am doing is useless, I am enjoying what I am doing and it's fun for me. I don't need to satisfy anyone else's rationalization of why it should or shouldn't be done at all.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 4:24:50 PM
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Hold it Ahigh... you are posting about some computer system for craps and now you tell me (us) that it's for YOU and not for the rest of us?
So, again, is there some reason why the rest of us should care about your system?
And if there is no reason for the rest of us to utilize your system, it would be the same as me posting information about an infomercial here. In other words, are you wasting our time?
So, again, is there some reason why the rest of us should care about your system?
And if there is no reason for the rest of us to utilize your system, it would be the same as me posting information about an infomercial here. In other words, are you wasting our time?
October 19th, 2013 at 4:27:07 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonHold it Ahigh... you are posting about some computer system for craps and now you tell me (us) that it's for YOU and not for the rest of us?
So, again, is there some reason why the rest of us should care about your system?
First off, it's not a "system" as in gambling system or any other "system." If you wanted a word to describe it, I think "project" might be more appropriate. If you don't care, that's fine by me.
Quote: AlanMendelsonAnd if there is no reason for the rest of us to utilize your system, it would be the same as me posting information about an infomercial here. In other words, are you wasting our time?
No it wouldn't. And your suggestion is rude. I am not making any money from what I am doing. It's not a commercial, or an infomercial, or a betting system, or anything that I am selling.
You just don't get it. I get that. But just duck out of the conversation.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 4:40:41 PM
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Quote: AhighBut just duck out of the conversation.
I'm not ducking out of anything. I want to know why you are posting all of this about your "project" here if it does not relate to any of the players either here or others who play craps?
And if it does relate to the rest of us, kindly explain how?
EDITED TO ADD: I see that you went back and deleted your earlier comment that this "project" is just for you. Again, why are you posting about it here if this is something just for you?
October 19th, 2013 at 5:21:34 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm not ducking out of anything. I want to know why you are posting all of this about your "project" here if it does not relate to any of the players either here or others who play craps?
And if it does relate to the rest of us, kindly explain how?
EDITED TO ADD: I see that you went back and deleted your earlier comment that this "project" is just for you. Again, why are you posting about it here if this is something just for you?
Your posts are a waste of my time. You constantly make logical conclusions that don't make any sense. When you asked how you use it, I point out it's not for you personally to use. Then you conclude that it doesn't "relate to any of the players either here or others who play craps" from that response.
YGBFKM dude!
You're posts are annoying me in a way that it's like a mosquito buzzing around that I have to keep swatting at. I don't have time to respond to you.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 5:26:59 PM
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Here's a video I spliced together with four input cards hooked up to grab a shot. Now I want to tell you this is just the first shot that I made myself after getting all four cameras set up and working. I'm NOT making any claims about the shot at all, nor am I answering questions about the shot. This is just a demonstration of the cameras and software and what-not. I did turn it into a youtube to make it viewable directly in the forums (I'm posting both here and on my forum).
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 6:01:28 PM
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This is for everyone to read except Ahigh: There is nothing new in Ahigh's project that isn't already commercially available -- not the cameras, not the mics, not the switches, not the animation and certainly not the theory about how dice rolls and bounces and throws apply to DI or DC. If there is something "new" here it would be in an application of this known technology.
Ahigh will not respond to my request for the application. So I think it's nothing more than a Rube Goldberg device.
Ahigh will not respond to my request for the application. So I think it's nothing more than a Rube Goldberg device.
October 19th, 2013 at 6:04:42 PM
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Why call your site "goodshooter.com?"
You shoot no better than any of us.
Also, no doubt there is no more "good" in you than in any of us.
You might want to change it to "randomshooter.com."
That would be more appropriate.
But hey, keep spending those bucks on high tech toys to prove what we all know to be true.
You shoot no better than any of us.
Also, no doubt there is no more "good" in you than in any of us.
You might want to change it to "randomshooter.com."
That would be more appropriate.
But hey, keep spending those bucks on high tech toys to prove what we all know to be true.
"What, me worry?"
October 19th, 2013 at 6:34:18 PM
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Quote: MrVWhy call your site "goodshooter.com?"
Really? I know you're asking in the most rude way possible, but I will answer you. When playing, the dealers commonly refer to people who have a long roll as a good shooter. They will say things like, "same good shooter coming out." It's part of their selling bets to other players at the table by telling them what a good shooter they are.
When I looked one day to see if the domain was taken, and it wasn't, I thought to myself, "wow that's amazing that this URL isn't taken." And I decided to act to obtain it. This was shortly after a post on the Wizard of Vegas forum where folks ridiculed me for believing in things that they didn't have the willingness to contemplate as possible themselves, much in the same way as your posts implies you are also unwilling to contemplate such a possibility.
Quote: MrVYou shoot no better than any of us.
That's false. Now I know what you are really thinking is that regardless of how well I shoot, my outcomes are just as random as the rest of you. But there's no question that I shoot the dice better than MANY people. If for no other reason because other people don't put in the effort that I put in.
Quote: MrVAlso, no doubt there is no more "good" in you than in any of us.
That is a dubious claim that I am sure you would like to believe is true, Mr Vee aka Mr Schadenfreude.
Quote: MrVYou might want to change it to "randomshooter.com."
You might want to stop posting about things for which you are not qualified to comment on.
Quote: MrVThat would be more appropriate.
As if you are concerned about being appropriate. That is a laugh. Your posts are as inappropriate as any others.
Quote: MrVBut hey, keep spending those bucks on high tech toys to prove what we all know to be true.
Sure thing boss! Thanks for permission for me to spend my money how I want.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 6:52:39 PM
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Here's 160MB from 20 minutes or so of shooting. Basically, the way to view these movies is to select them from Windows explorer (shift click or however you want to select multiple files) after sorting the files by name. Then right click and select "Add Files to Windows Media Player."
After that, you can click track forward and track backward to view the various files. I found that just looking at the videos was sorta fun. But still just testing out the system. I was testing for minimal speed (where I review each shot) and I can get a roll a minute. If I don't watch the video, I'm pretty sure I can get more than two rolls per minute. But I haven't tested for speed yet how fast I can go.
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/rolls2.zip
After that, you can click track forward and track backward to view the various files. I found that just looking at the videos was sorta fun. But still just testing out the system. I was testing for minimal speed (where I review each shot) and I can get a roll a minute. If I don't watch the video, I'm pretty sure I can get more than two rolls per minute. But I haven't tested for speed yet how fast I can go.
http://www.goodshooter.com/ahigh/mp4/rolls2.zip
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 6:54:16 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonThis is for everyone to read except Ahigh: There is nothing new in Ahigh's project that isn't already commercially available -- not the cameras, not the mics, not the switches, not the animation and certainly not the theory about how dice rolls and bounces and throws apply to DI or DC. If there is something "new" here it would be in an application of this known technology.
Ahigh will not respond to my request for the application. So I think it's nothing more than a Rube Goldberg device.
Awesome and thanks for your comments. It was great having you participate. I heard they are having a sale at Macy's. You need to go and jump on that story.
Hop to it!
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 6:56:33 PM
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Ahigh
There is no question our posts are waste of your time, we are discussing ways to
be a better craps player, you are discussing ways to make yourself look better
we are discussing better ways to bet, and you sre discussing ways to make yourself look better
we are discussing ways to set the grip better and throw better, you are discussing ways to make yourself look better'
we are discussing what is more important. the throw or what happens after the dice hit the table, you are
discussing what makes you look better.
If we dont talk about ways to make you look better, we are not worth your time.
I have a news flash for you, nothing you do, have done or will do will make any of us better craps
players, because you refuse to deal with the most important elements of the throw.
So play your games, call us liars, insult us and worry about ahigh, we will worry about playing craps.
dicesetter
There is no question our posts are waste of your time, we are discussing ways to
be a better craps player, you are discussing ways to make yourself look better
we are discussing better ways to bet, and you sre discussing ways to make yourself look better
we are discussing ways to set the grip better and throw better, you are discussing ways to make yourself look better'
we are discussing what is more important. the throw or what happens after the dice hit the table, you are
discussing what makes you look better.
If we dont talk about ways to make you look better, we are not worth your time.
I have a news flash for you, nothing you do, have done or will do will make any of us better craps
players, because you refuse to deal with the most important elements of the throw.
So play your games, call us liars, insult us and worry about ahigh, we will worry about playing craps.
dicesetter
October 19th, 2013 at 7:00:00 PM
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Quote: dicesitterThere is no question our posts are waste of your time, we are discussing ways to
be a better craps player, you are discussing ways to make yourself look better
we are discussing better ways to bet, and you sre discussing ways to make yourself look better
we are discussing ways to set the grip better and throw better, you are discussing ways to make yourself look better'
we are discussing what is more important. the throw or what happens after the dice hit the table, you are
discussing what makes you look better.
If we dont talk about ways to make you look better, we are not worth your time.
I have a news flash for you, nothing you do, have done or will do will make any of us better craps
players, because you refuse to deal with the most important elements of the throw.
So play your games, call us liars, insult us and worry about ahigh, we will worry about playing craps.
I never called you a liar. It's possible you are an amazing shooter. It's also possible that one day you'll understand what a p-value is.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 7:28:18 PM
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So back to the thread topic: I want to add one more camera to this setup and that's the still camera. I need one more BlackMagic card in order to get that done though. And I think that this is more necessary for real-time feedback than it is for capturing where the dice went.
I know a lot of folks are still not sure what I am doing. Particularly Alan seems to be confused, and I am sure that others are too. But just keep in mind that I announced I was doing this to many people as long ago as a year ago. And generally nobody really understands it at all.
Once I export some captured data and I can draw the virtual dice like it was in a video game (and export the captured dice bounce data for people who want to make craps video games as well, for what it's worth), then I think a lot of light bulbs will click. But those folks still won't be reading this sentence or any other sentence to understand that. They will have to actually see it working where it looks like a video game of a real craps table and you have to explain that it's not a real craps table, it's just a very realistic looking 3d graphics rendering of a craps table.
Once I have that, it won't just be replaying videos, I can overlay different rolls to compare and contrast how the rolls played out. If you download that roll data I gave you, and you use your brain real good, maybe you could see some similarities between one roll and the next. Maybe not. Maybe they aren't even there!
But to a computer, it's all simple math to figure out which rolls are similar to one another. If there are any two rolls that are identical 100%, that alone is circumstantial evidence (not proof, but evidence) that the game is not 100% random. But nobody is going to remember that many rolls to compare them all. That's why I need to do the motion capture.
It really annoys me all the negative comments from folks on this forum. But I guess I just have to get used to it.
Certainly _some_ of the negative comments are from people who simply wished they understood more of what it was that I was doing. Some day, maybe they will come around. Or maybe they are right and it's just all random. But either way, it will take time to know. And until then I will persevere.
I know a lot of folks are still not sure what I am doing. Particularly Alan seems to be confused, and I am sure that others are too. But just keep in mind that I announced I was doing this to many people as long ago as a year ago. And generally nobody really understands it at all.
Once I export some captured data and I can draw the virtual dice like it was in a video game (and export the captured dice bounce data for people who want to make craps video games as well, for what it's worth), then I think a lot of light bulbs will click. But those folks still won't be reading this sentence or any other sentence to understand that. They will have to actually see it working where it looks like a video game of a real craps table and you have to explain that it's not a real craps table, it's just a very realistic looking 3d graphics rendering of a craps table.
Once I have that, it won't just be replaying videos, I can overlay different rolls to compare and contrast how the rolls played out. If you download that roll data I gave you, and you use your brain real good, maybe you could see some similarities between one roll and the next. Maybe not. Maybe they aren't even there!
But to a computer, it's all simple math to figure out which rolls are similar to one another. If there are any two rolls that are identical 100%, that alone is circumstantial evidence (not proof, but evidence) that the game is not 100% random. But nobody is going to remember that many rolls to compare them all. That's why I need to do the motion capture.
It really annoys me all the negative comments from folks on this forum. But I guess I just have to get used to it.
Certainly _some_ of the negative comments are from people who simply wished they understood more of what it was that I was doing. Some day, maybe they will come around. Or maybe they are right and it's just all random. But either way, it will take time to know. And until then I will persevere.
aahigh.com
October 19th, 2013 at 8:19:06 PM
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So now you're creating a video game? Or you are reseaching dice control? Sorry. This isn't worth the trouble.
October 19th, 2013 at 8:40:27 PM
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Sorry Alan but this Is not necessarily the case. If one can prove DI has a decent advantage. AP's are very creative and will find a way to avoid Chips scattered about the table. Just have a few partners at the end of the table.Quote: AlanMendelsonRemember: on a real craps table with other players there are chips in your way and if you are having a great roll eventually there will be chips all over the table. If you can only throw well at an "empty table" it's not going to do you any good in a real casino.
I'm not sure how often you read other threads on this site. This thread has more to do with gambling then 80% of the other threads. I may be overexerting but you get the point.
No matter how much you try to hide or deny it, it is so obvious you have some type of dislike for Ahigh. Are you really hurt he didn't say hi to you at Caesars?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 19th, 2013 at 8:57:51 PM
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seriously ? You really didn't know why someone would make a good name for their website? randomshooter.com was taken. goodshooter.com: It's a great website name for a craps site and even other things. I would think that domain name has value.Quote: MrVWhy call your site "goodshooter.com?"
You shoot no better than any of us.
Also, no doubt there is no more "good" in you than in any of us.
You might want to change it to "randomshooter.com."
That would be more appropriate.
But hey, keep spending those bucks on high tech toys to prove what we all know to be true.
admit it was this a free shot at busting his balls. then we can all laugh
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
