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rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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January 12th, 2022 at 9:29:54 AM permalink
Or, to shorten, there two degrees of impossible. One is truly impossible as no known way to do it, and the other is degree of difficulty that it is also impossible but not as great as impossible as the first. Neither are going to be done, but one is greater than the other in impossibility.
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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January 12th, 2022 at 10:08:43 AM permalink
Soopoo just say you cant influence the dice. That's all. There's no harm and no shame.

I also can't control a bowling ball Into the 1-3 pocket. But some people do it all the time.

Some people can get the golf ball into the clown's nose. Some people can hit the ball 200 yards to within inches of a flag.

Some people are paid millions of dollars a year to throw a football while being chased by six uniformed gorillas, to where there's a receiver waiting to catch it.

Some people can throw a baseball 90mph to a spot slightly larger than your palm.

Some people can throw a dart into a spot no larger than a dime.

And so it goes.
unJon
unJon
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January 12th, 2022 at 11:52:30 AM permalink
SOOPOO,

FWIW, I am very skeptical about it. But to me the fact that the casinos have implemented certain protection measures like the diamonds on the wall, and a certain amount of springiness under the felt, I take as evidence that dice influence was done by at least some people before those measures were taken.

Are the current measures the casino has taken sufficient to ensure DI is impossible? I dunno. Probably. If I show up at a casino and suddenly see something new like diamonds on the felt for the last three inches of floor, then I will conclude that they weren’t sufficient, the casinos found someone beating them at craps, and added a new measure.

I do find it strange that you believe so strongly that the current safety measures the casino takes means DI is IMPOSSIBLE. I guess I’m more skeptical but agnostic.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Vegasrider
Vegasrider
Joined: Dec 23, 2017
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January 12th, 2022 at 1:42:11 PM permalink
With so many chips on the table, how can anyone throw a controlled roll? It’s more believable if the surface of the table remained constant free of chips
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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January 12th, 2022 at 2:44:11 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy


Well, in Nevada, if you want to be pedantic, and hope a judge agrees with you, then no, it is not against the rules. What is illegal (and I do mean illegal; it is a crime under the Nevada Revised Statutes, and the penalty for a repeated offense is a mandatory, as in "no probation and no suspended sentence," minimum one year in prison) is to use a "computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game
except as may be made available as part of an approved game or otherwise permitted by the Commission."
The Commission specifically permits using handwritten notes to track cards in baccarat and roulette results.

Note #2 specifically says "cards," although technically those are just four examples of "obtaining an advantage."
There is also the question of whether a pen/pencil and paper are considered "a mechanical device altered to obtain an advantage."

Insert the somewhat obligatory "You are wasting your time trying to develop a system in craps" comment here - especially as, since you are basing it on rolls, you have to assume that the same two dice are being used for every bet.
link to original post



Your mention of the use of a pencil and paper - to write down previous results in plain view of the dealer and pit boss - as possibly qualifying as 'a mechanical device" or "hardware" designed to obtain an advantage by keeping track of cards played or cards prepared to be played in the game' is intriguing. I suppose it might be argued that such a common practice that is commonly allowed by casinos in baccarat and roulette might qualify as a crime under Nevada Revised Statutes! Especially for plausible advantage plays like trying to take advantage of a vulnerable baccarat side bet.

I hate overly broad language in statutes defining criminal activity because it gives the police (and casinos in this case) the opportunity to use their discretion and selectively enforce the statute against parties that they otherwise don't like very much - legally, that they "bear animus towards."
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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January 12th, 2022 at 3:16:15 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

With so many chips on the table, how can anyone throw a controlled roll? It’s more believable if the surface of the table remained constant free of chips
link to original post



Just supposing that someone could DI successfully, in theory, trying to only play when alone at the table or only playing half tables would remedy the chips problem.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
onebok
onebok
Joined: Mar 31, 2016
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January 12th, 2022 at 3:26:12 PM permalink
The new electronic tables are ideal in this regard...no chips at all.
Vegasrider
Vegasrider
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January 12th, 2022 at 4:21:39 PM permalink
Keeping track of roll results is much different than keeping track of what cards remain or has been dealt. It’s a new roll with a new results on every roll, just like roulette. It’s like shuffling the cards after every hand in BJ. I’m basing my track on probabilities. For example, a 7 should be rolled after every 6 rolls. Is it against the rules for me to just make a note on paper how many rolls have been made without rolling a 7? Like I mentioned I can easily keep track by using single dollar chips stacking them towards one side after every roll. Just using the 7 as an example, that is not my system but it’s based on stacking the percentages on my side
Ace2
Ace2 
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January 12th, 2022 at 4:27:02 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Keeping track of roll results is much different than keeping track of what cards remain or has been dealt. It’s a new roll with a new results on every roll, just like roulette. It’s like shuffling the cards after every hand in BJ.
link to original post

You just hit the nail on the head.

Dice have no memory. Previous rolls have no effect on future rolls
It’s all about making that GTA
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 12th, 2022 at 7:40:49 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

… to me the fact that the casinos have implemented certain protection measures like the diamonds on the wall, and a certain amount of springiness under the felt, I take as evidence that dice influence was done by at least some people before those measures were taken.
link to original post

I take it as some casinos are paranoid. Other casinos, seeing what the paranoid casinos have done, do a collective corporate shoulder shrug, and implement the same protections.

Whether you believe in DI or not, you have to agree that such measures make it harder.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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