Tracking roll outcomes

Curious, is it against the rules to track roll results in craps? I know Baccarat and roulette allows tracking. I’m thinking of playing craps and I have a system that I would like to use but it would make it easier if I could mark the rolls with a pen and paper vs remembering them in my head.

I'll bring an index card with my system/strategy and put it in my shirt pocket for easy reference during a game. But trying to remember rolls, the most I'll do is a 5-count.

Quote: Vegasrider

Curious, is it against the rules to track roll results in craps? I know Baccarat and roulette allows tracking. I’m thinking of playing craps and I have a system that I would like to use but it would make it easier if I could mark the rolls with a pen and paper vs remembering them in my head.
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Well, in Nevada, if you want to be pedantic, and hope a judge agrees with you, then no, it is not against the rules. What is illegal (and I do mean illegal; it is a crime under the Nevada Revised Statutes, and the penalty for a repeated offense is a mandatory, as in "no probation and no suspended sentence," minimum one year in prison) is to use a "computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game
except as may be made available as part of an approved game or otherwise permitted by the Commission."
The Commission specifically permits using handwritten notes to track cards in baccarat and roulette results.

Note #2 specifically says "cards," although technically those are just four examples of "obtaining an advantage."
There is also the question of whether a pen/pencil and paper are considered "a mechanical device altered to obtain an advantage."

Insert the somewhat obligatory "You are wasting your time trying to develop a system in craps" comment here - especially as, since you are basing it on rolls, you have to assume that the same two dice are being used for every bet.

Quote: Vegasrider

Curious, is it against the rules to track roll results in craps? I know Baccarat and roulette allows tracking. I’m thinking of playing craps and I have a system that I would like to use but it would make it easier if I could mark the rolls with a pen and paper vs remembering them in my head.
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Every combination of bets has a negative expectation. No system can beat that

Not only is it not against the rules, some casinos will offer you scrap paper and a pencil to track the results. But they WILL take exception if you then can't place your bets in a timely manner.

Additionally, casinos are so confident that tracking the rolls for any system is a waste of time and pointless (and they're right), that some tables have history displays similar to that on roulette. Most (all?) electronic versions of craps, including the new systems that have players roll dice, include the history on the player's terminals.

So, as others have said, you're wasting your time trying, but are welcome to make the attempt.

Quote: Vegasrider

Curious, is it against the rules to track roll results in craps? I know Baccarat and roulette allows tracking. I’m thinking of playing craps and I have a system that I would like to use but it would make it easier if I could mark the rolls with a pen and paper vs remembering them in my head.
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You may track your rolls. And if you're the shooter and you think you are influencing the dice you absolutely should be tracking your rolls.

Just do your note taking quickly just as your dice setting should be done quickly.

This was the wrong forum to ask this question as it is anti dice influencing and every answer will show that bias.

You'd be better off asking DI-related questions at a DI friendly forum.

Quote: AlanMendelson

This was the wrong forum to ask this question as it is anti dice influencing and every answer will show that bias.

You'd be better off asking DI-related questions at a DI friendly forum.
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I don't speak for everyone.
I'm actually pro-DI.
Unfortunately, like perpetual motion, I haven't seen it work yet.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AlanMendelson

This was the wrong forum to ask this question as it is anti dice influencing and every answer will show that bias.

You'd be better off asking DI-related questions at a DI friendly forum.
link to original post

I don't speak for everyone.
I'm actually pro-DI.
Unfortunately, like perpetual motion, I haven't seen it work yet.
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I have seen it work... but with fewer than 5 shooters. That's five in my lifetime.

A simple 4x6 notebook. a column for every set used. Later transfer to an Excel based dice program. Transpose sets to see what would have happened using the original tosses. It is called work, since an iPhone cannot be used at the table.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AlanMendelson

This was the wrong forum to ask this question as it is anti dice influencing and every answer will show that bias.

You'd be better off asking DI-related questions at a DI friendly forum.
link to original post

I don't speak for everyone.
I'm actually pro-DI.
Unfortunately, like perpetual motion, I haven't seen it work yet.
link to original post

I have seen it work... but with fewer than 5 shooters. That's five in my lifetime.
link to original post

NO YOU HAVEN’T! You may THINK you have seen it, but JUST LIKE the 18 yo’s in a row, you are just plain wrong. DI to overcome the house edge does not happen (legally). You saying you’ve seen a few guys do it DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN A FEW GUYS DO IT! Is that clear and simple enough?

Rant over…..