Defeating the $25 Table Minimum
Meatloaf is even worseQuote: odiousgambityou can always count on ChumpChange to solve the problem
The rest of us have learned a new way to insult a Jew. Little did I know you could fling 'pot-roasting' at them and they would lose it! Odd that it doesn't show up in this list of 25,
https://tasty.co/article/deenashanker/make-bubbe-proud
However, I do agree that the OP's endless posts in this thread were strangely defiant, oppositional and non-responsive and suspending him was a constructive move.
I'd break it down to two $250 buy-ins and add a $25 odds bet at $375 or above.
If there's a $10 table around, you could have five $100 buy-ins and add $10 odds at $150.
.Quote: odiousgambitMr. Tuttigym, I think I finally know where you are coming from. The HE of Craps on the line bets is often remarked on to be one of the lowest edges of any bet in the casino. You seem to feel this is emphasized too much, that we would be better off just shutting up, because what you have seen over the years is people getting clobbered at Craps
I would not ask anyone to "shut-up." I feel that the emphasis is misquided. The fraction the 495 possibilities produce is accurate. The conversion of that fraction to a decimal number and thus a percentile is accurate. However, the inference that that percentile is in actuality a HA/HE mathematical "certainty" as offered by the "establishment," is unproven in the real world of play. Again, a real concern would be the "interpretation" by those less educated, those who are gullible, and those who will not question.
Quote: odiousgambitSome are taking your comments to mean you don't believe the math. I don't think that's true.
Some are taking your comments as a subtle attempt to troll. I don't thinks so, but I have to admit I think this thread should have died a long time ago.
Correct, and, perhaps, but now some are getting back to the original intent of the thread with suggestions and ideas.
Quote: odiousgambitI think you are just saying the low edge on the pass line isn't going to save you. For the most part, if someone becomes a Craps player, you feel such a person better be prepared to forget about 'low house edge' . It has little reality to it as an experience you will get at a session or many sessions. When posters also say the same thing, you feel they still don't get it when they won't also say the 1.41% edge has little practical meaning.
One reason I have come to this conclusion is you have asked me a lot of questions about the math elsewhere, and I don't get a retort that you don't buy it when I try to explain what I know [which has limits]
Am I right about this?
Yes, thank you for your insight. It is greatly appreciated.
tuttigym
Quote: Ace2Seems like you need to work on your basic probability and statistics knowledge.
If you were to make one billion PL bets, you can be about 99.9% confident that your loss will be 1.41% of the total amount you wagered. Flat betting of course
Your "example," in real world terms, can not be verified, so I personally and I am not sure anyone with real craps experience, would be "confident" of a 1.41% loss.
Quote: Ace2And regarding the HE varying after a point is established, you could say the same thing about blackjack, for instance. The overall HE is about half a percent but if the dealer is showing an Ace and you get dealt a hard 16, it's a lot higher for that hand. Why don't you just bet Don't Pass then...once a point is established you have the edge
I do not want to seem rude, but "21" is much less complicated with only one wager at risk, so that contemplating a HE/HA is not that important, I believe. The suggestion regarding the Don't Pass bet is valid and could work, but again as you yourself would say, "no guarantees." There are always pitfalls to any extended play using the same strategy repeatedly.
tuttigym
Quote: DocThose of us who have studied statistics and probability theory understand this stuff about craps. We also understand the outcome probability for the flip of a fair coin is 50% heads and 50% tails.
But c'mon, folks, tuttigym has pointed out to us that if that were really true, then every 10 flips of that coin would result in exactly 5 heads and 5 tails. Likewise, every 50 flips would result in exactly 25 heads and 25 tails, and every 5 flips would result in exactly 2.5 heads and 2.5 tails.
Now, we know that can't be, so -- based on tuttigym's expert guidance -- it seams we must abandon the stupidity of expecting a fair coin flip to result in 50% heads and 50% tails. All of that was just absurd mathmaticians talking.
Mr. Doc: You may know statistics and probabilities, but your ability to read minds needs some work and well as perhaps comprehension skills. I have NEVER used the "coin flipping" example in any of my posts nor will I. Here is a mathematical craps "certainty": The 7 will be rolled once in every 6 tosses (16.67%), however, there are NO guarantees it will always occur or occur consecutively or even in any number of hands played, but we have all witnessed such at any given craps session.
tuttigym
Quote: CalderI'm sure the next response will crush Tutti with the overwhelming weight of mathematics and the thread will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
I am never "crushed" by someone's rhetoric; I first consider the source and then evaluate.
tuttigym
Quote: WizardPersonal insult/trolling -- three days.
Mr. W.: I am Jewish. First, define THE "insult." Second, I do not know what "trolling" is, so help me with that. Next, you need to stop all references to chicken soup, pastrami, Kosher (as in "that's not Kosher"), and chopped liver. I told a close black friend of mine about your sanction, and he suggested that fried chicken, corn bread, BarBQ, and watermelon could also be misinterpreted.
I will accept your apology and you owe me three days.
BTW do not let Don Rickles ever to post here even he is not with us.
tuttigym
Quote: MichaelBluejayIt's funny how tuttigym always signs his posts, as though every poster's screen name isn't prominently listed to the left of his/her post.
Just want everybody to know that I write all my posts, and I want to be courteous and accountable.
tuttigym
Quote: ChumpChangeJust place $25 on the 5 or 9 and run a progression. There's a lot less come-out action on place bets.
If it was a $100 table, I'd lay the 5 or 9 for $105 (+ vig) and run a progression.
If the table minimum says the payout has to be $100+, then I'll move to a $50 table and bet $75 (+vig) on the lay 5 or 9 and run a progression. When I pay the vig up front, the payout will be $50. If the vig is taken on a win, then I get paid less than $50 and that bet may not be permissible.
Very good. I do not think I would have the stones to bet so large on any bet even with a player advantage let alone Martingale when I lose. Playing the Doey/Don't for me would eliminate that nasty vig., should I try your suggestion.
tuttigym
Quote: odiousgambityou can always count on ChumpChange to solve the problem
The rest of us have learned a new way to insult a Jew. Little did I know you could fling 'pot-roasting' at them and they would lose it! Odd that it doesn't show up in this list of 25,
https://tasty.co/article/deenashanker/make-bubbe-proud
Thanks for your support and see my note to Mr. W.
tuttigym
Quote: OnceDearUnusual for Wizard to penalise for trolling. I do concur. I believe the OP is being deliberately mischievous and provocative in his assertions. There's a subtle undertone to his posting style that makes me deeply suspicious. Time will tell.
Mischievous is good sometimes, if done in a positive way. Outspoken might be a better adjective and perhaps thought provoking. BTW OnceDear how come you never responded or rebutted my post to you. Is it possible I was correct?
tuttigym
Okay, here you go: https://bfy.tw/QFTnQuote: tuttigymI do not know what "trolling" is, so help me with that.
Quote: DeMangoWe already spent 200 pages on this subject many years ago, the first mega post thread until the Not so Hot Blonde challenge. History repeats itself and those who do not take that lesson are doomed to repeat it's mistakes.
I love being the "first." I am still not making mistakes except for the "pot roast.". There are some here now who are coming to understand where I am coming from.
Maybe the years have made me more effective.
tuttigym
Quote: OnceDearWas one of the dice a two?
$:o)
??????? Is that an insult?
tuttigym
Quote: Ace2Meatloaf is even worse
When cooked and made right, it too smells incredible.
tuttigym
Quote: gordonm888I am 1/4 Jewish and I was not remotely offended by the comment about pot-roast, and I just did not interpret it as a personal insult.
However, I do agree that the OP's endless posts in this thread were strangely defiant, oppositional and non-responsive and suspending him was a constructive move.
Mr. gordonm888: Thank you for the support. Defiant and oppositional are appropriate, but non-responsive, I am not. I enjoy the conversation, feedback, rebuttal, and critiques. It keeps me sharp.
tuttigym
Quote: daveyandersen1MR TUTTIGYM If this is your method of play why do you need any more different ways to play on a $25 table ??? It looks like you already have a working method ..Just stick with IT..I thought you were looking for a cheaper way to play, which my recommendation is...
I am open to all ideas regarding the intent of this thread. I value your contribution, as it was a cheaper way to play.
tuttigym
tuttigym
1)So you are saying that in a billion coin flips, you don’t “believe” that heads will appear almost exactly 50% of the time...essentially with 100% confidence...because it cannot be verified?Quote: tuttigymYour "example," in real world terms, can not be verified, so I personally and I am not sure anyone with real craps experience, would be "confident" of a 1.41% loss.
I do not want to seem rude, but "21" is much less complicated with only one wager at risk, so that contemplating a HE/HA is not that important, I believe. The suggestion regarding the Don't Pass bet is valid and could work, but again as you yourself would say, "no guarantees." There are always pitfalls to any extended play using the same strategy repeatedly.
tuttigym
2) Blackjack is so much more complicated than Craps that you can’t even compare them. You can work out the edge of nearly every Craps bet in your head. Yet I have never seen a direct calculation of the edge in blackjack...only simulations
You are seriously not smart enough to use Google?Quote: tuttigymNothing came up. Why not just tell me??
Quote: tuttigymNothing came up. Why not just tell me??
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Quote:In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement
That’s a pretty insulting post. I’ve not quoted it in case you decide to edit it.
Also, I directed him to a page that told him to type "troll definition" into the search box, and he couldn't even handle THAT. Real genius there. Kind of what you'd expect from someone who signs his name after every post.
Though actually, this was the link I meant to share: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=trolling
Quote: MichaelBluejaycouldn't even handle THAT.
In fairness, the UI and display in the early days of LMGTFY made it much more obvious what was going on. The updated link is an improvement.
He said 'nothing came up' and I can picture someone that age just not getting what to do
Tuttigym, I seem to be your Advocate and I don't know how I got here!
Quote: odiousgambit
Tuttigym, I seem to be your Advocate and I don't know how I got here!
It's a legit complaint. lmgtfy used to be the bee's knees; now apparently less so.
Quote: Ace21)So you are saying that in a billion coin flips, you don’t “believe” that heads will appear almost exactly 50% of the time...essentially with 100% confidence...because it cannot be verified?
No, I said I do not use the coin flip example at all to explain or justify HA/HE math. One does not need one billion trials of anything to prove a postulate or hypothesis. The coin flip 50% "heads/tails" postulate is a mathematical and statistical certainty simply because it happens often, not every time and not guaranteed to happen in any specified number of attempts. I may have written this before, so if I am repeating myself and you did not see it, I apologize, but in craps, a mathematical and statistical certainty is that the 7 will be rolled 16.667% of the time or one in 6 rolls of the dice. The event is witnessed at virtually every craps table and session in the gambling world. However, it does NOT necessarily occur consecutively, with any prescribed regularity, or within any time frame, and one does not need a billion rolls of the dice to prove that hypothesis.
Quote: Ace2) Blackjack is so much more complicated than Craps that you can’t even compare them. You can work out the edge of nearly every Craps bet in your head. Yet I have never seen a direct calculation of the edge in blackjack...only simulations
One does not have to "work out" the HE in "21." The "real edge" is that the dealer turns his card over AFTER the players make their decision based on their hand and what card the dealer has up. When the casinos went to multi-deck shoes, that edge increased even more, and when the casinos ruled that players could not enter the game in mid-shoe, that increased the HE, and if the dealer feels that some how there is an incredible card counter at their table, they will stop mid-shoe play and res-shuffle the cards and start a new shoe increasing the HE again. Obviously, based on your post you will disagree with that analysis or maybe not, and that is okay.
tuttigym
Quote: MichaelBluejayYou are seriously not smart enough to use Google?
Your seriously not smart enough to answer the question on any level that is intelligible and direct? So if one of your children, if you have any, asks you a question you know the answer to, you immediately direct them to google because you are not confident enough or communicative enough to answer? Very disappointing.
tuttigym
Quote: Dieterhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Thank you Dieter, that helps a lot and will help me to be more direct and responsive, not necessarily accurate, but hopefully on point.
See, Mr Bluejay, how easy that was?
tuttigym
Quote: unJon@MichaelBluejay,
That’s a pretty insulting post. I’ve not quoted it in case you decide to edit it.
Thanks, unJon, I am not insulted, but maybe I was trolled? In any case, I just consider the source.
tuttigym
Quote: MichaelBlujayThough actually, this was the link I meant to share: https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=trolling
Mr. Bluejay: Gosh you misdirected my search? You are the genius here. But what can one expect from someone who CANNOT accurately explain in writing a simple definition. Very disappointing.
I will accept your apology.
tuttigym
Quote: odiousgambitTuttigym, I seem to be your Advocate and I don't know how I got here!
It is not a mystery to me. You are just a fair and good individual that will look reasonably at all sides.
Thank you.
tuttigym
Quote: DieterIt's a legit complaint. lmgtfy used to be the bee's knees; now apparently less so.
Do you suppose Mr. Bluejay leearned anything?
Thanks Dieter. One day, maybe I can learn how you put images, like the one shown, in my messages.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymDo you suppose Mr. Bluejay leearned anything?
Thanks Dieter. One day, maybe I can learn how you put images, like the one shown, in my messages.
tuttigym
When you are posting there is a blue button that says “Insert My Picture”.
Quote: tuttigymYour seriously not smart enough to answer the question on any level that is intelligible and direct? So if one of your children, if you have any, asks you a question you know the answer to, you immediately direct them to google because you are not confident enough or communicative enough to answer? Very disappointing.
tuttigym
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish .......
MIT was first to study this and found that the HEADS side is heavier, so TAILS is more likely to show.
Smithsonian Magazine reported on another study here
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/gamblers-take-note-the-odds-in-a-coin-flip-arent-quite-5050-145465423/#:~:text=The%20reason%3A%20the%20side%20with,it%20finally%20comes%20to%20rest.
By the way MIT also discovered that when throwing two dice the two faces on the top have a slight advantage of being the final result. No reason was given in the MIT report I read.
I keep track of the Superbowl coin tosses and TAILS beats heads 29 to 26 and I think the Superbowl coins are designed like US coins with a heavier heads or obverse.
Quote: unJonWhen you are posting there is a blue button that says “Insert My Picture”.
Mr. unJon: Thank you. I personally do not plan on posting pictures charts, etc. I have stated often that my computer skills are perhaps a 2 on a level of 10. So my questions to your answer above are: 1) Where does the "picture" come from? 2) How do I get the picture on the same screen or message entity to be transferred to my message? Let me tell you how obtuse I am: I do not know how to transfer a photo from my phone onto an instant message. My mind just does not grasp it, and because of that, it has not become a priority in my life.
Again, thanks for trying to help.
tuttigymi
Quote: billryanGive a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish .......
Mr. billryan: So I should teach Mr. Bluejay how to read, write, and communicate his concepts, ideas, and views? I am not sure there is enough time.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymMr. unJon: Thank you. I personally do not plan on posting pictures charts, etc. I have stated often that my computer skills are perhaps a 2 on a level of 10. So my questions to your answer above are: 1) Where does the "picture" come from? 2) How do I get the picture on the same screen or message entity to be transferred to my message? Let me tell you how obtuse I am: I do not know how to transfer a photo from my phone onto an instant message. My mind just does not grasp it, and because of that, it has not become a priority in my life.
Again, thanks for trying to help.
tuttigymi
1) From your computer or phone, whatever device you are using to post. You have to save the picture or chart to your computer/phone first.
2) Once you click the blue insert picture button you’ll see how to do it.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThis might shock tuttigym but US coin flips are not 50/50.
Mr. Mendelson: Your back because you figured out that my pot roast comment did NOT "border on antisemitism" or because of your expertise in coin flipping?
Quote: AlanMendelsonMIT was first to study this and found that the HEADS side is heavier, so TAILS is more likely to show.
I did not and will not read the "study." I do not know if you have read the "study." But I do know enough about some kinds of research to ask these questions to which you may not know the answers which is okay.
1. Are you suggesting that ALL U.S. coins are the same regardless of the year they were minted?
2. In the "study," were the coins flipped by a mechanical devise or by human hand?
3. Were the coins flipped from the same exact height or elevation?
4. Was the rotation of the flipping exactly the same each time?
5. Was the velocity of the rotation identical each time?
6. Was the distance from the flip to the landing area identical?
7. Was the bounce or rebound from the surface to rest identical?
All of the above can and do create variables which could skew ultimate results.
Quote: AlanMendelsonSmithsonian Magazine reported on another study here
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/gamblers-take-note-the-odds-in-a-coin-flip-arent-quite-5050-145465423/#:~:text=The%20reason%3A%20the%20side%20with,it%20finally%20comes%20to%20rest.
Does that "study" answer the questions above?
Quote: AlanMendelsonBy the way MIT also discovered that when throwing two dice the two faces on the top have a slight advantage of being the final result. No reason was given in the MIT report I read
I am sorry Mr. Mendelson but that is NOT science or any kind of a valid report. I believe you know that too.
Quote: Alan MendelsonI keep track of the Superbowl coin tosses and TAILS beats heads 29 to 26 and I think the Superbowl coins are designed like US coins with a heavier heads or obverse.
That sample size is too small to even become valid, and the above questions are even more relevant given the fact that some of those coin flippers lacked even average physical coordination skills.
tuttigym
Quote: unJon1) From your computer or phone, whatever device you are using to post. You have to save the picture or chart to your computer/phone first.
2) Once you click the blue insert picture button you’ll see how to do it.
Mr.unJon you have the patience and grace to help me become more competent, and I thank you. If there is an opportunity and necessity to try it, I will.
Thank you.
tuttigym
Quote: billryanAt a coin flip for the COPA soccer series, the coin impaled itself into the ground and ended up vertical instead of horizontal.
Go figure. So who won THAT coin toss?
Great story.
tuttigym
Quote: tuttigymGo figure. So who won THAT coin toss?
Great story.
tuttigym
I am sure they called "No Roll, Next Shooter".
Or whatever the equivalent is.
Quote: AlanMendelsonTuttigym: US coins when sliced in half will have a heavier HEADS. It's because of the portrait.
Okay, I can go with that, but the questions I have asked are still relevant to the conclusions reached. What is the weight difference? What margin of error does that weight difference make? If the difference is infinitesimally small, those questions above are particularly pertinent?
You did not answer the "pot roast" question? Why? Embarrassed? Don't be.
tuttigym
