CHARTING A TABLE
April 1st, 2016 at 7:10:10 PM
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Quote: ontariodealerprofessional stickman available.....fly me to vegas and a hooker or two will cover it.
I will pay for the hooker if I get to pick her out.
April 1st, 2016 at 7:24:02 PM
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He's probably in as long as you get sloppy seconds.Quote: rainmanI will pay for the hooker if I get to pick her out.
or 100's in this case.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 1st, 2016 at 8:36:28 PM
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Math
I made my proposal, it is 100% fair to both.
Take it or leave it.
dicesetter
I made my proposal, it is 100% fair to both.
Take it or leave it.
dicesetter
April 1st, 2016 at 9:26:05 PM
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Both? This isn't about me at all. I'm just a proxy for skeptical inquiry. This is about you and your far-fetched, unproven claims of dice influence. If you think your eight years of practice can beat a random roller -- whether it's me, your wife, or your off-hand -- then I'm offering you the opportunity to prove it in public.Quote: dicesitterI made my proposal, it is 100% fair to both.
If you won't accept the offer to prove your skills in public, then at least do the members of this forum the respect of admitting that you're not sure you actually can. The choice is yours, but I really want you to accept. I'd love for you to buy us all a bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 1st, 2016 at 10:24:24 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfHe's probably in as long as you get sloppy seconds.
or 100's in this case.
no cum bets then??????
get second you pig
April 1st, 2016 at 10:33:27 PM
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Sorry buddy
You made it about you "You do your careful dice setting. Over ten hands (an expected 85 rolls or so), I wager that you won't have longer rolls than me more than half the time.
It is all about you.
dicesetter
You made it about you "You do your careful dice setting. Over ten hands (an expected 85 rolls or so), I wager that you won't have longer rolls than me more than half the time.
It is all about you.
dicesetter
April 1st, 2016 at 11:02:54 PM
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I'm with you; I wanted to make it a friendly wager for a bottle of good Scotch shared with WoV members. We'd all have a drink either way, the only question is who pays. But dicesitter wants to escalate to $2000, well fine, that's more in my pocket but I don't need his money. I'd do it for free except that doesn't seem like much of a challenge. Remember, I'm not the one trying to prove anything -- like I said, there's no difference between me throwing the dice or him throwing off-handed. The question on the table (no pun intended) is whether he can influence the dice, not whether I can. I know I can't and I'm not trying to.Quote: petroglyphTo this red chip player that is hefty but still a friendly wager, that everyone walks away from, still smiling. You guys both can play at a level that I can't even afford to lie about. I was going to put twenty bucks on you, but I was kinda hanging out hoping to get odds.
Going to 2K, which I know you can afford, takes the fun out of it for me. Now we got bookies coming in making side bets, and someone is working security, and hormones building. Guys bumping chests, etc.
But then it gets bizarre with his notion of "proving his skill" in private, with just one stickperson in the room and nobody else to verify anything. That's just strange. Besides, that's like playing a baseball game in front of no fans. No, it's not a challenge at all if it needs to take place in private behind closed doors. I don't care if anyone can influence the dice in the privacy of their own home. But I'm very certain that in a real-money live casino setting, dicesitter's alleged skill won't beat a random shooter's hands more than half the time. If 10 rolls isn't enough, we can do 10 rolls multiple times -- best 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5.
I'm fine just with 10 rolls too, and I never bet purple. I did make a $1000 line bet once but that was with 10 black chips. And I don't think there's any regional language difference, it's just a question of dicesitter not being willing (never being willing) to demonstrate that there is any truth to his wild claims of dice-influence prowess. He won't discuss his results, he won't talk about his methods, and he certainly won't fly to Vegas to try to win my bottle of Scotch (or even my $2000.) I don't know what his excuse will be, but I'm 100% sure he'll back out.Quote:I enjoyed the SooPoo challenge, what a great way to get craps enthusiasts challenging others. If you wanted to take his money, IMO, quit messing with it and play. I wouldn't have moved it to 20 rolls, you had him on the ropes. Me, I would have left it at a bottle, but I probably get the same juice out of red chips as you guys do playing purple. I was glad to get him to roll the dice.
FWIW, until recently I hadn't seen anything that looked like an insult from either of you, but it's starting to build. I think it's a regional language difference in communication , and once someone takes umbrage, it escalates and the whole thing goes to hell.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 1st, 2016 at 11:22:19 PM
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Time to fix the terms of the challenge.
DS said "20 hands each on a neutral table with just you and me and a stickman.."
What does that mean?
I assume it means no other players at the table, but spectators can watch.
Is that correct?
So then gentlemen, is there an agreement?
Time to clarify terms.
DS said "20 hands each on a neutral table with just you and me and a stickman.."
What does that mean?
I assume it means no other players at the table, but spectators can watch.
Is that correct?
So then gentlemen, is there an agreement?
Time to clarify terms.
"What, me worry?"
April 1st, 2016 at 11:38:18 PM
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Hey bud
I did not back out I made the proposal. Your backing out.
I wont do this at a casino because then it is about dice control and in that regard
I represent more than just me.. I wont do that.
This is about you cutting down all the work I have done and the many times you
called me a liar. This is personal, this is not dice control..
Private table, stickman and we go head to head, 20 hands.
I would have gladly played for nothing and enjoy playing with anyone, I sure as
hell don't need the money, but it has been you that made it personal, I understand
you cant help it , you have to insult to make yourself feel good. You cant get it through
your head that many people do things because they enjoy doing, not for just money, so
in that regard when you cut down everything I have done it is an insult to me....
So you can be a decent person and stand up for what you say... or not!!
dicesetter
I did not back out I made the proposal. Your backing out.
I wont do this at a casino because then it is about dice control and in that regard
I represent more than just me.. I wont do that.
This is about you cutting down all the work I have done and the many times you
called me a liar. This is personal, this is not dice control..
Private table, stickman and we go head to head, 20 hands.
I would have gladly played for nothing and enjoy playing with anyone, I sure as
hell don't need the money, but it has been you that made it personal, I understand
you cant help it , you have to insult to make yourself feel good. You cant get it through
your head that many people do things because they enjoy doing, not for just money, so
in that regard when you cut down everything I have done it is an insult to me....
So you can be a decent person and stand up for what you say... or not!!
dicesetter
April 1st, 2016 at 11:47:56 PM
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What have we been talking about if not dice control in a casino?Quote: dicesitterI wont do this at a casino because then it is about dice control
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 1st, 2016 at 11:52:50 PM
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Normally whomever it is that's making the outrageous claims and pumping up the bet finds a way to weasel out.
Sometimes the claim they can do x but they want proper odds. NO, that doesn't show confidence in your supposed ability. So what's the point?
They almost always make some excuse or make unrealistic terms so the challenger has to back out.
Is anyone willing to bet me whether or not this challenge will take place or not?
Basically I want to bet that this challenge wont take place within 4 months where a $2000+ wager takes place and ME has a significant advantage and there's at least one trusted independent observer.
Sometimes the claim they can do x but they want proper odds. NO, that doesn't show confidence in your supposed ability. So what's the point?
They almost always make some excuse or make unrealistic terms so the challenger has to back out.
Is anyone willing to bet me whether or not this challenge will take place or not?
Basically I want to bet that this challenge wont take place within 4 months where a $2000+ wager takes place and ME has a significant advantage and there's at least one trusted independent observer.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 1st, 2016 at 11:59:01 PM
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A derivative bet? I like it. Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with you on the "no," especially after dicesitter just shut down the possibility of meeting in a casino to toss dice. Seriously, did anyone else here think that when I suggested that we shoot dice, I wasn't talking about a casino in Vegas? Was I unclear about that?Quote: AxelWolfIs anyone willing to bet me whether or not this challenge will take place or not?
Basically I want to bet that this challenge wont take place within 4 months where a $2000+ wager takes place and ME has a significant advantage and there's at least one trusted independent observer.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 2nd, 2016 at 12:26:24 AM
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If he says he's coming, ten bucks says he comes.Quote: AxelWolfIs anyone willing to bet me whether or not this challenge will take place or not?
I nominate Axel as an observer.Quote:Basically I want to bet that this challenge wont take place within 4 months where a $2000+ wager takes place and ME has a significant advantage and there's at least one trusted independent observer.
April 2nd, 2016 at 12:26:56 AM
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The claims of DS are all BS.
It was obvious from the start.
He's weaseling out.
Just like we knew he'd do.
It was obvious from the start.
He's weaseling out.
Just like we knew he'd do.
"What, me worry?"
April 2nd, 2016 at 12:59:43 AM
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I'm not a big craps fan, someone else would probably enjoy it much more than I would.Quote: petroglyphIf he says he's coming, ten bucks says he comes.
I nominate Axel as an observer.
Anyways I think DS is miffed at me for insulting him about not cherry picking or something.
I wouldn't want any excuses.
DS should pick someone as long as ME agrees.
I'm still censused why he's only allowing for 3 people. Where is it that only one person runs a craps game?
I wouldn't trust a situation where I was at a private table unless I knew the owner and checked everyone for crooked dice.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 2nd, 2016 at 1:15:09 AM
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Axelwolf
I don't care who it is, that is not the point. I am doing this in private not to make it
harder on Math, but I have a number of friends that work on their shots and they would
not have me talk about this at all.
None of them would make a public dog and pony show about dice control....I wont either , because
their support and friendship means more to me than Math.
Now math keeps saying this is about dice control.... no its not "You do your careful dice setting. Over ten hands (an expected 85 rolls or so), I wager that you won't have longer rolls than me more than half the time. That sentence has nothing to
do with dice control... his ego got the best of him.
And axel your no better.."I wouldn't trust a situation where I was at a private table unless I knew the owner and checked everyone for crooked dice". Your indicating I would set this up so I could cheat, what in the hell is wrong with you???
dicesetter
I don't care who it is, that is not the point. I am doing this in private not to make it
harder on Math, but I have a number of friends that work on their shots and they would
not have me talk about this at all.
None of them would make a public dog and pony show about dice control....I wont either , because
their support and friendship means more to me than Math.
Now math keeps saying this is about dice control.... no its not "You do your careful dice setting. Over ten hands (an expected 85 rolls or so), I wager that you won't have longer rolls than me more than half the time. That sentence has nothing to
do with dice control... his ego got the best of him.
And axel your no better.."I wouldn't trust a situation where I was at a private table unless I knew the owner and checked everyone for crooked dice". Your indicating I would set this up so I could cheat, what in the hell is wrong with you???
dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 1:59:07 AM
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I was thinking I would shake down ME first ☺.Quote: dicesitterAxelwolf
I don't care who it is, that is not the point. I am doing this in private not to make it
harder on Math, but I have a number of friends that work on their shots and they would
not have me talk about this at all.
None of them would make a public dog and pony show about dice control....I wont either , because
their support and friendship means more to me than Math.
Now math keeps saying this is about dice control.... no its not "You do your careful dice setting. Over ten hands (an expected 85 rolls or so), I wager that you won't have longer rolls than me more than half the time. That sentence has nothing to
do with dice control... his ego got the best of him.
And axel your no better.."I wouldn't trust a situation where I was at a private table unless I knew the owner and checked everyone for crooked dice". Your indicating I would set this up so I could cheat, what in the hell is wrong with you???
dicesetter
Actually I wasn't talking about you or him, I was speaking in general. I would be very leery of any private table or people I never met before. Geese, don't take things so seriously. NO I TRUST YOU WOULD NOT DO THAT
Trust but confirm☺☻
This forum is supposed to be educational and fun. You don't seem to want any of ME's education and you don't seem to be having fun right now.
DS "but I have a number of friends that work on their shots and they would
not have me talk about this at all."
Some of you DI's keep saying stuff like this. Can you explain why you insist on desperately trying to convince people here you can influence the dice? Especially on this forum where if it was proven possible there are plenty of people with math skills, money, desire, time, the willingness to pursue it, and worst yet, some like to write books and educate casinos.
If you were my friend touting something highly profitable, because even you say there's guys much better than you claim to be. (IT'S WORTH A FORTUNE, ME explained how to cut out the variance and watch your BR grow)
that people mostly think is a myth, I would be fiercely pissed at you just for posting here and wonder why I'm friends with you.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 2nd, 2016 at 4:37:36 AM
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AW: Anybody making big bucks in real time with real money is not going to reveal what they are doing. They are keeping a low profile and not talking about it.
I think it was George Shaw who was quoted as saying: "Those who can do; those who cannot either teach or write. (As an aside I have done both. (:-)
The investment management/system vendor community has a saying: "Trade the best, and sell the rest." Do you know of anyone who would sell a producing
mine or oil well?
Back in the day, I could care less what anyone said or thought what the stock market would do because I was making money trading my edge.
I dare say we are see the same behavior demonstrated in the DI teaching schools community. But what do I know?
I think it was George Shaw who was quoted as saying: "Those who can do; those who cannot either teach or write. (As an aside I have done both. (:-)
The investment management/system vendor community has a saying: "Trade the best, and sell the rest." Do you know of anyone who would sell a producing
mine or oil well?
Back in the day, I could care less what anyone said or thought what the stock market would do because I was making money trading my edge.
I dare say we are see the same behavior demonstrated in the DI teaching schools community. But what do I know?
April 2nd, 2016 at 7:00:58 AM
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For those who don't remember, I sponsored and Aaron hosted a dice challenge. Nickolay claimed he could avoid 7's, and we made a bet over 200 rolls. I don't remember the exact details but suffice it to say he actually rolled substantially more 7's than he claimed he would, actually more than 1 in 6, it might have even been 40 in 200 rolls!
My attitude in handling what I consider a phoney claim by a DI is a little different than ME's. I always ask the DI what they think they can do? If they say they can hit 7's only 1 in 7 rolls, I'll design a bet. If they say they can hit 6 or 8, 1 in 6 times each, I'll design a bet. I let the alleged DI guy tell me what they can do, and will bet against them. I DO understand that the bet I design will clearly be in my favor, but am aware that variance could sink me. It's a chance I am willing to take.
Dicesetter, can you make a specific claim of something you can do consistently that a random shooter could not expect to do?
My attitude in handling what I consider a phoney claim by a DI is a little different than ME's. I always ask the DI what they think they can do? If they say they can hit 7's only 1 in 7 rolls, I'll design a bet. If they say they can hit 6 or 8, 1 in 6 times each, I'll design a bet. I let the alleged DI guy tell me what they can do, and will bet against them. I DO understand that the bet I design will clearly be in my favor, but am aware that variance could sink me. It's a chance I am willing to take.
Dicesetter, can you make a specific claim of something you can do consistently that a random shooter could not expect to do?
April 2nd, 2016 at 7:56:20 AM
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Axelwolf
Thanks for the reply.
Math has offered nothing, he has no idea what to do. period.
Now in terms of posting here.... that is another story altogether.
It should be clear to you by now I like to play this game, and when I was
49 I had a pretty bad medical problem. It was bad enough that it was
very difficult to do most of the things I had liked to do and even those
were no longer enjoyable.
To get my mind off it as best I could I started to read about craps, now I
had played some since I was 25, but only now and then. I read every
book I could get including some of Franks work, actually played some
using a few things he talked about. Then took a class and got a table and
working on a craps shot made me look ahead. Little by little I spent
more time thinking I may enjoy the next year, rather than the thought
that I would not even be here the next year. Now I am here, and
pretty happy I am. So while craps is just another game to most people,
it has a different meaning to me, and that has nothing to do with
money.
My posting on here has nothing to do with proving anything, it
was just data from my practice and play..... I treated it no different
than the stuff we talk about at hunting camp, or we talk about
during all our fishing tournaments.
It was people like Math and you that went on and on about what
ever I was posting had to wrong or a lie etc.
The more you pushed, I gave at times to much information and yes
I got a number of calls to get off here. I got a call the other day
in fact when I gave Math more than I should. I cant go into some
public place and make this a dog and pony show about dice
setting. I cant do that no matter what you say.
On the other hand Math needs to be put in his place.
I don't know any other way to say it.
And Axle I have no beef with you, we don't agree on everything, but I would
play a hand or to with you any day,
dicesetter
Thanks for the reply.
Math has offered nothing, he has no idea what to do. period.
Now in terms of posting here.... that is another story altogether.
It should be clear to you by now I like to play this game, and when I was
49 I had a pretty bad medical problem. It was bad enough that it was
very difficult to do most of the things I had liked to do and even those
were no longer enjoyable.
To get my mind off it as best I could I started to read about craps, now I
had played some since I was 25, but only now and then. I read every
book I could get including some of Franks work, actually played some
using a few things he talked about. Then took a class and got a table and
working on a craps shot made me look ahead. Little by little I spent
more time thinking I may enjoy the next year, rather than the thought
that I would not even be here the next year. Now I am here, and
pretty happy I am. So while craps is just another game to most people,
it has a different meaning to me, and that has nothing to do with
money.
My posting on here has nothing to do with proving anything, it
was just data from my practice and play..... I treated it no different
than the stuff we talk about at hunting camp, or we talk about
during all our fishing tournaments.
It was people like Math and you that went on and on about what
ever I was posting had to wrong or a lie etc.
The more you pushed, I gave at times to much information and yes
I got a number of calls to get off here. I got a call the other day
in fact when I gave Math more than I should. I cant go into some
public place and make this a dog and pony show about dice
setting. I cant do that no matter what you say.
On the other hand Math needs to be put in his place.
I don't know any other way to say it.
And Axle I have no beef with you, we don't agree on everything, but I would
play a hand or to with you any day,
dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 8:30:43 AM
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Quote: dicesitterI cant go into some
public place and make this a dog and pony show about dice
setting. I cant do that no matter what you say.
On the other hand Math needs to be put in his place.
Your posts about DI nonsense over the months have been little BUT "a dog and pony show," played out in public.
Now, when asked to put up or shut up, you refuse to publicly put your money where your mouth is.
Oh, wait a minute: there could be a solution.
You could do the challenge under your terms, have it videoed, then post a link to the video on this board.
"What, me worry?"
April 2nd, 2016 at 9:05:40 AM
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MRV
Sorry no video of any kind.
dicesetter
Sorry no video of any kind.
dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 9:32:18 AM
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Why not?
"What, me worry?"
April 2nd, 2016 at 9:41:28 AM
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Mrv
Why.......
I am an old fart playing craps and I don't represent anyone else. Why should I do this
and have people like Math make it about anyone that sets the dice.
it was math that insulted everything I said or did, and then he said he could throw the
dice over his back shoulder and beat me.... First I have actually seen people lose
thousands playing like that.. second Math was a fool, he should have taken my first
offer of 10 hands each... anything can happen in 10 hands, the kid could get a 70
roll and it is game over...... but 20 rolls works better for me .
Hey I think I was more than fair, I did not come on here and say I could beat you, or
Axel or anyone..... its the casino that takes your money..... I hope everyone wins...
But Math made it about him and me.
dicesetter
Why.......
I am an old fart playing craps and I don't represent anyone else. Why should I do this
and have people like Math make it about anyone that sets the dice.
it was math that insulted everything I said or did, and then he said he could throw the
dice over his back shoulder and beat me.... First I have actually seen people lose
thousands playing like that.. second Math was a fool, he should have taken my first
offer of 10 hands each... anything can happen in 10 hands, the kid could get a 70
roll and it is game over...... but 20 rolls works better for me .
Hey I think I was more than fair, I did not come on here and say I could beat you, or
Axel or anyone..... its the casino that takes your money..... I hope everyone wins...
But Math made it about him and me.
dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 9:42:59 AM
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Jeez. This thread is one of the longest running most pathetic car crashes ever to grace WOV.
There will be no challenge played out. It's just going to be claim / rebuttal, name call/name call till someone gets suspended.
It's gone from being about charting a table to a punch and judy show. It won't end well.
There will be no challenge played out. It's just going to be claim / rebuttal, name call/name call till someone gets suspended.
It's gone from being about charting a table to a punch and judy show. It won't end well.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
April 2nd, 2016 at 9:51:11 AM
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Quote: OnceDearJeez. This thread is one of the longest running most pathetic car crashes ever to grace WOV.
There will be no challenge played out. It's just going to be claim / rebuttal, name call/name call till someone gets suspended.
It's gone from being about charting a table to a punch and judy show. It won't end well.
The MKL, Logan/Singer was a lot longer and fun to watch.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
April 2nd, 2016 at 9:51:48 AM
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Hasn't the back and forth been ongoing now since....2010!!!
April 2nd, 2016 at 10:19:27 AM
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exactlyQuote: OnceDearJeez.
not to mentionQuote: OnceDearThis thread is one of the longest running most pathetic car crashes ever to grace WOV.
this thread was hijacked to the Max
why is it not in its own room?
"FLAG ON THE PLAY"
the parties to D and DI stuff needs to get their own room
'barf' said Doggie (his name is Max)
back to charting in the Original Post
way more important stuff, imo
OK
more after lunch (it is almost always lunch time 4 me)
I Heart Vi Hart
April 2nd, 2016 at 10:25:37 AM
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Eclectic
It is worse than " the world turns"
But its about over, Math wont bet his money on himself and
I am very confident in what I am doing so his nonsense will
end.
dicesetter
It is worse than " the world turns"
But its about over, Math wont bet his money on himself and
I am very confident in what I am doing so his nonsense will
end.
dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 10:35:57 AM
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simple it isQuote: MrVYour posts about DI nonsense over the months have been little BUT "a dog and pony show," played out in public.
Now, when asked to put up or shut up, you refuse to publicly put your money where your mouth is.
Oh, wait a minute: there could be a solution.
have someone give the DI old-guy $2,000 real for the challenge
that way he was a 0% probability of losing any of his own $$$$$$$$
on the challenge (he still has to take his wife out for dinner)
who is that someone?
the Wizard of Odds comes to mind
I have some extra cash taking up room
or run a donation to raise the funds
that would be so easy too
I Heart Vi Hart
April 2nd, 2016 at 11:00:09 AM
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Of course not. The amount of doublespeak coming from dicesitter is shameful. He posts videos of his allegedly-controlled throw, yet declines to videorecord a more proper demonstration of his skill? Ridiculous. He spends months boasting on the Internet about how his long years of practice have given him magical dice control abilities, yet then declines to demonstrate it before an audience because he doesn't want to make a public disclosure? Even more ridiculous.Quote: OnceDearJeez. This thread is one of the longest running most pathetic car crashes ever to grace WOV.
There will be no challenge played out.
At the most basic, his claim is that his dice control allows him to roll longer at the table (with an SRR of 1:7 or better). So I offer a sensible challenge: prove that you actually can roll longer than a random roller's hands. His response? "That's not about dice control, that's personal." Utter nonsense.
This entire thread has been full of his prevarications and exaggerated boasts of alleged skill, skill which I believe is non-existent. It shouldn't be surprising that the sort of person who makes such boasts would also be good at concocting excuses for why they won't prove their boasts in public.
SOOPOO, I'm all for designing a different challenge, but I wouldn't expect dicesitter to ever accept one. I've volunteered a challenge: dicesitter's alleged skill vs. random throwing, hand vs. hand, for 10 hands each. Or 20 or 50. It doesn't matter who throws the dice randomly -- it could be his wife, a robot with a dice cup, his other hand, you, me, etc. Now, you've seen how he thinks this is personal, but really he's just using me to personify his real critic, which is skeptical inquiry. I'm fine being the stand-in for a random thrower, but that's only happening in a casino with professional casino dealers, and preferably an audience of WoV members. I don't think anyone here expects me to go alone to the craps table in his basement...
"It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again."
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 2nd, 2016 at 11:06:44 AM
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Quote: MathExtremistOf course not. The amount of doublespeak coming from dicesitter is shameful. He posts videos of his allegedly-controlled throw, yet declines to videorecord a more proper demonstration of his skill? Ridiculous. He spends months boasting on the Internet about how his long years of practice have given him magical dice control abilities, yet then declines to demonstrate it before an audience because he doesn't want to make a public disclosure? Even more ridiculous.
For a moment, I thought you were saying it's not a car crash :)
If Dicesetter were a troll, Then I'm afraid I'd have to say that you were the guy feeding him.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
April 2nd, 2016 at 11:20:01 AM
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I'd go with "train wreck" but that's probably just a regional thing. I don't get the sense he's a troll, but if he is then I apologize for my part in keeping this nonsense on life support.Quote: OnceDearFor a moment, I thought you were saying it's not a car crash :)
If Dicesetter were a troll, Then I'm afraid I'd have to say that you were the guy feeding him.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 2nd, 2016 at 12:08:44 PM
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Well, there it goes
April 2nd, 2016 at 5:38:09 PM
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Petroglyph
Well Petroglyph,,,, what you going to do. I cant make it any
easier for him.
I even told Axel I have no problem with him being the
stickman.
Math knows his mouth was a tad larger than his ability
Anyway, I got the two boats out today and it snowed,, perfect!
Dicesetter
Well Petroglyph,,,, what you going to do. I cant make it any
easier for him.
I even told Axel I have no problem with him being the
stickman.
Math knows his mouth was a tad larger than his ability
Anyway, I got the two boats out today and it snowed,, perfect!
Dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 5:52:17 PM
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You will probably get a couple feet, might as well hitch a ride with the bride.Quote: dicesitterPetroglyph
Well Petroglyph,,,, what you going to do. I cant make it any
easier for him.
I even told Axel I have no problem with him being the
stickman.
Math knows his mouth was a tad larger than his ability
Anyway, I got the two boats out today and it snowed,, perfect!
Dicesetter
April 2nd, 2016 at 6:34:43 PM
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It's simple as long as you guys can find a place and an agreed up on witness(stick man) There shouldn't be a problem getting this going.
What place did you have in mind DS?
I'll be happy to participate on stick, however I suggest RS. He's probably better with a stick.
Whatever it takes.
1 step at a time.
1)DS why don't you tell us when you're available and where we should have this.
See if ME is available and agrees to the location.
2)Hammer out the bet.
3)agree on the witness and a alternate just in case.
4)Each of you send Mike the 2k in escrow.
5)show up and play.
6) have some dinner, drinks and fun with others after. Winner pays for losers drinks and dinner(mine to).
What place did you have in mind DS?
I'll be happy to participate on stick, however I suggest RS. He's probably better with a stick.
Whatever it takes.
1 step at a time.
1)DS why don't you tell us when you're available and where we should have this.
See if ME is available and agrees to the location.
2)Hammer out the bet.
3)agree on the witness and a alternate just in case.
4)Each of you send Mike the 2k in escrow.
5)show up and play.
6) have some dinner, drinks and fun with others after. Winner pays for losers drinks and dinner(mine to).
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 3rd, 2016 at 5:49:51 AM
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Gentlemen:
I don't think one meeting will prove anything. If ME wins, he will say the rolls were random, just as the law of large numbers suggested they would be.
If DS wins, he will claim influence. From my limited understanding one needs rolls of at least 10,000 to indicate any type of influence. Which is why
my analysis of 7,500 rolls were not enough. 72-hours at the craps may be enough. I calculated the number of rolls contained in the book to be 35 hours
so the rolls in the 72 hours book should number >10,000 but I don't have that one.
I don't think one meeting will prove anything. If ME wins, he will say the rolls were random, just as the law of large numbers suggested they would be.
If DS wins, he will claim influence. From my limited understanding one needs rolls of at least 10,000 to indicate any type of influence. Which is why
my analysis of 7,500 rolls were not enough. 72-hours at the craps may be enough. I calculated the number of rolls contained in the book to be 35 hours
so the rolls in the 72 hours book should number >10,000 but I don't have that one.
April 3rd, 2016 at 7:23:31 AM
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"only comes into play"Quote: eclecticI first came across this theory when reading Zeke Feinberg's books.
The basic concept he sums up in the following two sentences.
"The inside numbers (5,6,8,9) ratio only comes into play when
the 7's ratios are normal or higher than normal. The higher the ratio
of 7's above 1/6 average, the better the opportunity for earning profits".
what does this mean in simple words?
place bets?
just buy my book and read it
<<<<>>>
what YOU say cuz you brought it up
and how many books do you have for sale?
none is OK
<<>>
the ratio = 1/2 for 5,6,8,9
that is easy
do you think it means that when there are 1 in 6 or more 7s
there will be more than 1/2 inside #s and one can win more money that way?
a quick look at 35,097 actual dice rolls from real casino craps table (The Zumma Craps System tester)
shows 5,975 7s actually rolled
expected number of 7s = 35097/6 (5849.5)
OK
so the theory says what now, more inside #s
no way this time
just 17,524
should have been at least 35097/2 (17548.5)
of course
when and how to bet is all that is required to win at craps
one can easily be a lifetime winner by winning more than they lose
no theory required
no books required to read either
practical experience?Quote: eclecticI was looking for feedback from anyone who has practical experience in applying this concept by tracking the rolls at a table?
good luck with that one
good luck with that one tooQuote: eclecticIt seems to me that a successful betting strategy could be exploited based on a quantitative expression of these ratios?
I find negotiating an advantage against the casino and winning more often
with Lay bets keeps it easy and simple
but almost all craps players wants to have that 50 roll hand every day
and close down all the craps tables from too many DIs
at least slots will survive
I Heart Vi Hart
April 3rd, 2016 at 7:49:05 AM
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Axel
Be a little careful here, I am on a fixed income, I may have to sell one of my boats to
pay the $2000. I cant be running around the country and buying dinner and drinks.
You know where I live, I have no idea where anyone else is from. Most of our fishing
tournaments are in May and June, all I have in July is a Take A Vet fishing program and I
am going to meet Petroglyph in Laughlin and more than likely rent a car and meet
some folks in Las Vegas.
My wife is not real happy about this, laughing, she does not care about the money or the bet,
she has never seen me pissed at anyone. me either.
I feel I have a job to do here, I will do it, win or lose and then be on my way.
dicesetter
Be a little careful here, I am on a fixed income, I may have to sell one of my boats to
pay the $2000. I cant be running around the country and buying dinner and drinks.
You know where I live, I have no idea where anyone else is from. Most of our fishing
tournaments are in May and June, all I have in July is a Take A Vet fishing program and I
am going to meet Petroglyph in Laughlin and more than likely rent a car and meet
some folks in Las Vegas.
My wife is not real happy about this, laughing, she does not care about the money or the bet,
she has never seen me pissed at anyone. me either.
I feel I have a job to do here, I will do it, win or lose and then be on my way.
dicesetter
April 3rd, 2016 at 10:59:00 AM
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Hey, the $2000 was your idea. I was going to make it about a $180 bottle of Scotch. I certainly don't want you to sell your boat. Being out on the water is more important than losing money at the craps table.Quote: dicesitterBe a little careful here, I am on a fixed income, I may have to sell one of my boats to
pay the $2000. I cant be running around the country and buying dinner and drinks.
If your dice throwing technique was actually generating profits in casinos -- that is, if you actually were a successful dice AP -- you wouldn't have any trouble finding $2000. So it's pretty clear that your stories of dice setting skill in casinos haven't turned into money for you. That's a shame. As I've said many times, if you had real skill at dice throwing and you were just missing the betting piece, that's easy enough for someone like me to fix. I'd analyze the altered probabilities and find an optimal betting pattern to take advantage of the player edge on certain bets.
But I don't think you have that skill, and only you can demonstrate otherwise. Whether you will is up to you. Or maybe it's really up to your dice-setting friends who want you to stop talking about all this.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
April 3rd, 2016 at 11:44:46 AM
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What are the odds dicesitter posts his results of dice throws? Many pages ago I asked, a little while later he said he'd post some....still.....nothing! :(
April 3rd, 2016 at 11:45:11 AM
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Quote: MathExtremistYou don't have that skill, and you can't demonstrate otherwise.
There. I fixed it for you
$:o)
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
April 3rd, 2016 at 9:01:46 PM
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RS
I posted last weeks results and tonight I had 12 hands for a total
of 122 rolls for a very nice 10.17 SRR
Tonight my shot started terrible, I shoot it from Stick right, but last
2 weeks have been working from stick left so I feel I can be effective
when area tables have only one side open.
RS what are the odds whatever I post will be good enough for you.
dicesetter
I posted last weeks results and tonight I had 12 hands for a total
of 122 rolls for a very nice 10.17 SRR
Tonight my shot started terrible, I shoot it from Stick right, but last
2 weeks have been working from stick left so I feel I can be effective
when area tables have only one side open.
RS what are the odds whatever I post will be good enough for you.
dicesetter
April 3rd, 2016 at 9:17:20 PM
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Math'
Laughing, well I have to give you credit. Its not often I get to laugh this hard, don't
fret, I will try real hard to find the $2000.
Someone like you would have had the opportunity to make money with some one
like me, if you did not think you were that much better than I am. There is nothing you
could say or do, to get me to have anything to do with you.
If we do put this together, I will make that very clear to you.
As for the $2000, I don't even like the idea of that, even when I win. That should not
be necessary, except that just beating you would not be enough after taking all your
bull. If I thought even for second, you were a decent guy, a bottle of booze or even a
fishing rod would be great, since its all in fun....but that day has come and gone.
dicesetter
Laughing, well I have to give you credit. Its not often I get to laugh this hard, don't
fret, I will try real hard to find the $2000.
Someone like you would have had the opportunity to make money with some one
like me, if you did not think you were that much better than I am. There is nothing you
could say or do, to get me to have anything to do with you.
If we do put this together, I will make that very clear to you.
As for the $2000, I don't even like the idea of that, even when I win. That should not
be necessary, except that just beating you would not be enough after taking all your
bull. If I thought even for second, you were a decent guy, a bottle of booze or even a
fishing rod would be great, since its all in fun....but that day has come and gone.
dicesetter
April 3rd, 2016 at 9:30:10 PM
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Sorry I was away and didn't read the thread - di
I'll take any bet you want and we can escrow the money with Mike or any mutually agreeable person. I will fly to any location as long as the amount of the bet is worthwhile - I can be there within 48 hour notice and will play at a private table as long as it is with dice that I can physically calibrate once there or with dice that we purchase together and remain with us until the shoot. I do not need to video tape it .
My only requirement is a voice recording of all transactions for the benefit of whoever is the escrow a so the dice can be announced on audio after each roll so there is no dispute after the fact
I'll take any bet you want and we can escrow the money with Mike or any mutually agreeable person. I will fly to any location as long as the amount of the bet is worthwhile - I can be there within 48 hour notice and will play at a private table as long as it is with dice that I can physically calibrate once there or with dice that we purchase together and remain with us until the shoot. I do not need to video tape it .
My only requirement is a voice recording of all transactions for the benefit of whoever is the escrow a so the dice can be announced on audio after each roll so there is no dispute after the fact
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
April 3rd, 2016 at 9:31:51 PM
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DS:
ME believes, your claims to the contrary, that you are no better at controlling / influencing the dice than he is.
He (and I, and many others) do not believe that your many years of practice have yielded anything of value.
You claim you have an edge, we say prove it, you run away and hide.
ME believes, your claims to the contrary, that you are no better at controlling / influencing the dice than he is.
He (and I, and many others) do not believe that your many years of practice have yielded anything of value.
You claim you have an edge, we say prove it, you run away and hide.
"What, me worry?"
April 3rd, 2016 at 9:56:19 PM
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Quote: dicesitterMath'
As for the $2000, I don't even like the idea of that, even when I win. That should not
be necessary, except that just beating you would not be enough after taking all your
bull. If I thought even for second, you were a decent guy, a bottle of booze or even a
fishing rod would be great, since its all in fun....but that day has come and gone.
dicesetter
I don't want to break this up while this wager is being orchestrated, but you're really toeing the line on Personal Insult. Dial it back just a little, please.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
April 3rd, 2016 at 10:30:03 PM
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As MrV just pointed out, I think you misunderstand my challenge. I don't think I'm better than you at throwing the dice. What I think is that you're *not* better than me or anyone else, whether that's your wife, a 10-year-old, or any other random thrower. Even a computer. For example, I just used Excel to randomly generate a bunch of dice rolls and charted out how they turned into 14 craps hands. The random lengths were:Quote: dicesitterSomeone like you would have had the opportunity to make money with some one
like me, if you did not think you were that much better than I am.
4, 6, 12, 7, 2, 8, 6, 4, 4, 8, 4, 17, 26, 5
I picked 14 hands because that's exactly how many you reported a few days ago. Based on your reported results compared to these randomly generated ones, you would have lost the challenge. Only 6 of your reported 14 hands were longer than the random ones, but you'd have needed 8 to win.
So if we ever do get together and shoot dice, I expect you'd lose the challenge again. It's not guaranteed -- that's why it's a bet -- but I definitely disagree with you that you'd prevail 80% of the time. But hey, if you think you'll beat me 80% of the time, let's do it 5 times just so I can get my one win in. Your 10 hands vs. my random 10 hands, five separate times, you get a point if the majority of your hands are longer than mine and I get a point otherwise. First to 3 points wins and the loser buys the WoV crowd dinner -- and it will be a crowd because we're doing this at a Vegas casino.
And I'll throw in some free consulting to sweeten the pot, win or lose. In the unlikely event that you actually do have any skill at influencing the dice, I'll show you how to finally make some money with it. For example, when you went to the casino the other day, picked your set and throw, bet heavy on the place bets and lost, that was almost certainly a terrible idea. That's not where you should be betting if you have the edge unless you know a lot more details.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
