CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA

Quote: eagleeye2

Now guys, those things may do well for some, however, wouldn't it be better to ""Resolve The Dice Unbalance Mystery"" then ALL can avoid those Casino's that Utilize Unbalanced Dice & or Better Force those Casino's to Return to using BALANCED DICE???

Quote: ontariodealer

no, you are wrong, I don't think any of those thing, I just think you are a retard.

Quote: eagleeye2

You may need a LOT of LUCK, as Dice Verified Unbalanced in Favor of Heavy #6 & #5's with a corresponding increase in 2's, 3's & 7's ( as shown in the Video) are detrimental to both Do & Don't Betters, favoring the Casino's & increasing their House Take by several % Points.

Quote: eagleeye2

The above makes it difficult to WIN at Casino Craps, when playing against Biased Dice.

Quote: ontariodealer

no, you are wrong, I don't think any of those thing, I just think you are a retard.

Quote: eagleeye2

RonC.

Please provide your PROOF of this statement:

"The dice, even unbalance, cannot be played to an advantage and they do not provide an extra advantage (over the house advantage) to the casino.""

There are Real Professionals out there that DISAGREE With Your Statement!

Folks, compare this to RonC's Flap!

Check out the following Link, which has a # of Exerts Backing their comments!
http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/p/cheating-casinos.html

eagleeye2

Quote: ontariodealer

no, you are wrong, I don't think any of those thing, I just think you are a retard.

Quote: eagleeye2

WOW the Posting Chaos on this thread is Totally Amazing!

I started a Thread TItled "CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA"

I have provided significant information on dice & dice balancing. I have provided links to Unbalanced Dice, and a Link to Experts who feel as I do that it is NOT OK for Casino's to Utilize UNBALANCED Dice, adding to their % Craps Take from their Customers without INFORMING those CRAPS Playing Customers that they are IN FACT UTILZIING UNBALANCED DICE at times of their Choosing to Enhance their $$$ Take @ the Craps Tables.

This Link Verifies that some Dice are UNBALANCED ~ ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx7aVMKCOQ&feature=youtu.be )

Dice Verified Unbalanced in Favor of Heavy #6 & #5's with a corresponding increase in 2's, 3's & 7's ( as shown in the Video) are detrimental to both Do & Don't Betters, favoring the Casino's & increasing their House Take by several % Points.

The above makes it difficult to WIN at Casino Craps, when playing against Biased Dice.

Check out the following Link, which has a # of Exerts Backing their comments!
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx7aVMKCOQ&feature=youtu.be )

Yes, all of the above, yet we have half a dozen posters here that totally disagree with the above Links & add to the Chaos, rather than attempt to solve the problem at hand!

Nay~Swayers most frequent arguments are as follows:

1) Nothing you can do about Unbalanced dice

2) No Dice are perfect accept it

3) Casino's do not know how to use Dice Balancers, so what

4) Just accept biased Dice & take advantage of them

5) & that insanity goes on

IMHO, there are Balanced Dice (I purchased 15 Such Dice & reported on them In My #1 Post here), Casino's should use them!

Also, IMHO, there are Unbalanced Dice Being used at times, in Some Las Vegas Casinos, Proof in the Video Link Provided Above.

I ask all to OPEN their EYES to this Mystery & chip in & help Solve It!

eagleeye2

Quote: AxelWolf

Yes and you keep saying the same thing over and over.

Quote: AxelWolf

Yes and you keep saying the same thing over and over.

1 UNVERIFIED video is MEANINGLESS. People have pointed out a few problems with the video.

Let's have someone with some credibility order 6 sets of new dice. Everyone who is in your camp can put up money for the Dice and everyone in the BS camp can do the same . If it turns out all there's more to this andiIf the Dice mimic what's in that Video , we pay for the dice, if not your camp does. Let's ask Ahead if we can use his dice caliper to test them.

Quote: eagleeye2

AxleWolf,

Now that is much better!

I do ask if you could elaborate on this ""People have pointed out a few problems with the video."" Please list the problems?

Also, A-High's Dice Caliper, in spite of costing $2,000 unfortunately exhibits more friction than does a basic Caliper that provides ""FREE SPIN"" of the Die.
A Dice Caliper purchased from Gamblers Supply will suffice.

eagleeye2

Quote: AxelWolf

I have asked this same thing before. Go back and search.

I'm fairly certain that many people including the Wizard would be very interested if someone could show a small trend in newly ordered 7's bias dice, especially if it mimics the ones in that video. I definitely interested TRUST ME, I would love to have you be vindicated. It opens up some opportunities Ill forever be singing Paradice City. If it's prevalent and it's a significant bias someone will be motivated enough to find out how to exploit it.

I think it would make an interesting video. Starting with the unpacking and ending with the testing. (Im not sure he has the time or the motivation to spend money upfront ordering them.

I know absolutely nothing about ordering dice. Where do you get them? How much do they cost. How long before they come? will they be the same quality as the casinos dice? Can any blow Joe order them? What's the protocol?



Perhaps you can Get the ball rolling and come up with a list of steps and directions. I'm in on a wager/cost of the process. For my money, I want to see a majority of the dice with a bias favoring 7's. But if nothing significant happens showing a bias( like the Video) You and the nutty bunch are responsible for the costs.

I want someone with some scientific intelligence, someone respectable with no motivation to skew the results. I'm sure with some cherry picking someone would by chance find a 7 heavy pair of dice.

PS. As far as the video you posted goes. I think I seen a silhouette of Harry Coover ghost in the background. We should omit that video from evidence just in case.
Don't make me call in ghost busters.

Pss. Trust but confirm.

Quote: eagleeye2

Also unfortunately, all 15 dice were Found to Be Balanced to my satisfaction, on a dice Caliper. Individual Weights & Measurements of these dice are reported in the table way back in my # 1, original posting. Based upon this d ata, these Dice were judged by me to have been manufactured under Good Manufactufring conditions.

Not to toot my horn, but I am a retired degreed Mechanical Engineer, worked for a Major U.S. Company & specialized in Problem Solving. After I retired, I spent (3) years as an Independent Consultant teaching Problem Solving Classes to Major Manufacturing Companies. The last thing I would do, or allow someone else to do, is to alter data collected, as outliers can point to problem solutions.

Quote: eagleeye2

AxleWolf,

"" Trust but confirm "" ~ That is exactly what I set out to do when I Ordered (3) Sleeves of "Casino Quality, 3/4 Inch, Clear, Highly Polished Dice, purportedly to be from (3) different suppliers. Unfortunately, they may have all came from the same manufacturer, (as they were all packaged in the Traditional Gold Foil Wrapper).

Also unfortunately, all 15 dice were Found to Be Balanced to my satisfaction, on a dice Caliper. Individual Weights & Measurements of these dice are reported in the table way back in my # 1, original posting. Based upon this d ata, these Dice were judged by me to have been manufactured under Good Manufactufring conditions.

Not to toot my horn, but I am a retired degreed Mechanical Engineer, worked for a Major U.S. Company & specialized in Problem Solving. After I retired, I spent (3) years as an Independent Consultant teaching Problem Solving Classes to Major Manufacturing Companies. The last thing I would do, or allow someone else to do, is to alter data collected, as outliers can point to problem solutions.

After collecting data on the 15 Dice I purchased, it conflicted directly with data floating around the internet, etc. Specifically, this video of Dice purchased from Heavy, with his Logo, etc. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx7aVMKCOQ&feature=youtu.be ).

That motivated me to reach out for additional information needed to solve the ( "CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA" )

All input thereto is appreciated!

eagleeye2

Quote: petroglyph

I dislike saying this, but the thread has went on long enough, I can't stand it anymore. This is MHO.

A caliper is ;Calipers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A caliper (British spelling also calliper, or in plurale tantum sense a pair of calipers) is a device used to measure the distance between two opposite sides of an object.

A balancer is ; - definition of balancer by The Free Dictionary
bal·anc·er (băl′ən-sər) n. 1. One that balances. 2. See halter2. bal•anc•er (ˈbæl ən sər) n. 1. one that balances. 2. halter 2. [1400-50] ThesaurusAntonymsRelated WordsSynonymsLegend: Noun 1. balancer - an acrobat who balances himself in difficult positions acrobat - an athlete ...
Search domain www.thefreedictionary.comthefreedictionary.com/balancer..Or something that measures, balance

A scale;Digital Scales, Weight Scales, & Balances. Shopping Made Easy.
A digital scale or weight scale can be tricky to shop for. We've made it really easy to choose from our huge inventory of balances and weighing scales. Or other, see fish scale, algorithmic etc.

I know you know the difference, and I have waited 27 pages, if I am correct please use the right terms, ok? If I am incorrect let me know also.

The way I see it is as used here; scale=for measuring weight,,,,balance= device for checking balance or balancing, and caliper= a device for measuring distance between two points.


With some people what bugs them is spelling, some it's verbage, with me I guess, it's calling a spade a spade? thanks

My understanding was that in Vegas they were only measuring the dice to see if they were indeed a cube with a caliper or micrometer?

Quote: eagleeye2

1) A "DICE BALANCING CALIPER", like that in the photo, is exactly what has been refered to throughout this thread.

2) I point out that your play on Balancer & Caliper, while correct in the dictionary definition, of each, are TOTALLY INCORRECT in the case being discussed on this thread.

A) The"DICE BALANCING CALIPER" shown, Has ZERO Means of establishing a specific amount of unbalance, (it has no electronics) as would be required to establish a weight & position of unbalance, as isR equired to BALANCE a DIE!

B) The"DICE BALANCING CALIPER" shown has ZERO Means for measurement of distance, as the Diictionaary definition of Caliper REQUIRES.

C) Thus your semantics are totally incorrec, as used in your POSTING above.

Quote: dicesitter

Pet


That is about it. I watched at Gold Coast as she measured and measured and wrote everything
down, ,but did not check to see if they balanced properly before she placed them back in
the wrappers

Yup they are square

dicesetter

Quote: Dalex64

Please explain which numbers each individual die rolls for the pair of dice to make more sevens.

Then explain which numbers each individual die is biased towards in a stick of 5.

After that we can talk about the 10 different combinations of dice you can end up with when selecting two dice out of a stick of 5.

Quote: eagleeye2

1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's.

Quote: Face

Once retrieved, they are "transported by the 3" via locked cart to the Table Games podium, where they are removed from the cart and locked in a storage area on location. There they remain until they are needed. When they are needed, yet another call is made to Surveillance so the process is sure to be watched. They remove the old from the table (where it is bagged, logged, and later tested for bias and canceled), and insert the new (after testing for size and bias).

Quote: SanchoPanza

We have read accounts here, including from highly reputable people, about possessing real uncanceled casino dice. When asked how they were acquired, no responses have been given. No one has pursued that question, so I presume that it stands as a given reality.

Quote: Face

Quote: Face

Sort of a huge deal to simply skip over. That "somehow" is so gigantic, perhaps it is too big for you to see. Let me help you...

When casinos receive their cards and dice, it is done securely...

Quote: eagleeye2

(1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's.)

Quote: Face

Sort of a huge deal to simply skip over. That "somehow" is so gigantic, perhaps it is too big for you to see. Let me help you...

When casinos receive their cards and dice, it is done securely...

Face,

I posted ""1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's."" Yada, Yada, Yada...

Yes, that is the ONLY answer to this Video that is possible: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx7aVMKCOQ&feature=youtu.be ).

And this much longer one: http://dicecraps.blogspot.com/search/label/Biased%20Dice

Yes, seeing is Believing, other than form those that Believe Trickery was involved in creating the above Video's.

Get real folks, those that posted the Video's are out to Present Reality, not deceive you as some here tend to believe.

With Face's explanation of Casino Security, when handling Incoming Dice, it appears that the Dice Manufacturer inadvertently, or for some reason Created the Unbalance that All that Viewed the Video's have seen with their own EYES!

eagleeye2

Quote: Face

Still, as it pertains to the topic, all of that means nothing. Unless one thinks they could happen upon one of these forgotten legits, juice it, and then reintroduce it. Please don't lead me down that road ;)

Quote: Face

Unless one thinks they could happen upon one of these forgotten legits, juice it, and then reintroduce it. Please don't lead me down that road ;)

Quote: MathExtremist

You need to be able to swap in *and out* loads in order for that to be effective. That requires real sleight-of-hand skill. And if you're going to do that, you're not going to use slightly biased dice in the way our conspiracy-theorist friend suggests.

I recall a story once where a cheat fumbled the switch and one of the dice that was supposed to be palmed dropped back onto the table. Maybe it was in one of the Scarne books. Anyway, the stick sent a pair of 3s and the die that fell was also a 3 ... so the stick called "hard nine." (Presumably just before security escorted the shooter to the back room.)

I hate to dignify the ongoing conspiracy theory with a response, but it baffles me how someone who claims to be a mechanical engineer or the like isn't actually running experiments designed to measure and quantify the alleged bias in the dice he bought. Instead all we get is another Internet video.

If I thought for a moment that there was some systemic bias in all dice manufactured by a given vendor, and that I could identify it and (as a result) compute the altered edge on all the bets, I wouldn't be posting on the Internet about it. I'd be staying in a comped suite and confusing the pit crew with my unbelievable streak of good luck.

Quote: eagleeye2

(1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's.)

Quote: AxelWolf

ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE ONE UNVERIFIED VIDEO. If someone buys enough dice eventually they will run into a bias that fits their theory.

How many sets were purchased before and after this set? Are you trying to tell me this was the first and only time?

Is there any any reason more dice are not purchased and tested? Is there a reason he didn't show the unpacking of the dice and the set up?

Quote: MathExtremist

I hate to dignify the ongoing conspiracy theory with a response, but it baffles me how someone who claims to be a mechanical engineer or the like isn't actually running experiments designed to measure and quantify the alleged bias in the dice he bought. Instead all we get is another Internet video.

Quote: eagleeye2

Quote: AxelWolf

Wrongo AxleWolf, it is not one, but many, including An EXPERT TEAM AS fOLLOWS:

We have identified casinos that are methodically using unbalanced Biased Dice to increase their house advantage at Craps. Over the past 2 years, we have assembled a Biased Dice Research Team which includes over a dozen dice detectives with professional resumes that include:
- a double PhD tenured Math professor;
- a NASA aerospace scientist;
- a retired plastics engineer;
- a mechanical engineer;
- an electrical engineer;
- 2 finance majors;
- a CPA;
- a computer geek;
- and 4 craps players that live and play in Las Vegas almost every day of the year
(collectively we have 8 regulation size craps tables).

Casinos and gaming commissions do not see using unbalanced dice as an illegal act, but simply changing the odds in the same fashion as 6:5 Black Jack --- Giving the house more favorable odds with 6:5 BJ. As noted somewhere...

Copied from this link: ( http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/p/biased-dice.html )

Of course the nay~swayers on this thread po-po REALITY, including that in the LINK Above!

Get with it Guys & contribute to the solution!

eagleeye2

All that talent and over 2 years and only ONE lousy video. And not one of them can figure out how to exploit the situation. I'm sorry but that really is hurting your case.

By now they should've raped the casinos so badly, that the casino would be scared S__tless to introduce back bias dice .

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Quote: eagleeye2

...we have assembled a Biased Dice Research Team which includes over a dozen dice detectives...

Quote: MathExtremist

I hate to dignify the ongoing conspiracy theory with a response, but it baffles me how someone who claims to be a mechanical engineer or the like isn't actually running experiments designed to measure and quantify the alleged bias in the dice he bought. Instead all we get is another Internet video.

Quote: eagleeye2

With Face's explanation of Casino Security, when handling Incoming Dice, it appears that the Dice Manufacturer inadvertently, or for some reason Created the Unbalance that All that Viewed the Video's have seen with their own EYES!

Quote: AxelWolf

All that talent and over 2 years and only ONE lousy video. And not one of them can figure out how to exploit the situation. I'm sorry but that really is hurting your case.

By now they should've raped the casinos so badly, that the casino would be scared S__tless to introduce back bias dice .

Quote: eagleeye2

We have identified casinos that are methodically using unbalanced Biased Dice to increase their house advantage at Craps.

Quote: Face

I know, I know. I sort of feel the same; I just justify it by thinking I'm keeping the wheat separate from the chaff. I'd hate for an innocent to get sucked into this vortex.

There's just so much obviously wrong and shortsighted, yet all these doctors and engineers and physicists haven't seen it yet? I don't buy it. I almost think we're just arguing with a very well done program.



OK! See, this actually is a possibility. We're talking about mass produced blocks of acrylic contracted out to the lowest bidder. Yes, these dice can be garbage.

But please, to "get real" and drop the garbage, as you say, let's forget any conspiracy. All that I listed in my previous post still applies. They'd have to be purposely biased by the manufacturer, people in the plant would know, they'd have to be identified in some manner and that manner would have to be communicated to the many members of TG, and on and on, including the risk for no gain that many involved would be taking. There's too many cooks in that particular broth to go off without a whistle. So let's skip that.

They very real possibility that the dice are simply junk and contain an imbalance is not only likely, I will even give it my stamp of approval (for whatever that's worth to you). I personally believe that not only is it likely, but that it's absolutely guaranteed. It just has to be.

The only questions that remain, the only ~~~Mystery that needs unraveling~~~, is does their imbalance have an effect on the outcome, and can it be detected by a man on the table during live play.

Now, I have no fancy initials after my name. The only title I have is "Mister", and that just barely. Additionally, I am legitimately brain damaged. Got the medical reports and MRI's and everything. And not only do I have almost no college on my resume, but I "passed" high school math with a 63. Teach gave me two points just so I could graduate (and also likely so he didn't have to deal with me anymore). That being said, even I have a general understanding of how one might go about answering those two questions posed. I think, given a few dice, a couple weeks of free time, and the help of just one person that knows Probability 101, I could even answer the question in its entirety.

Why have none of you done the same? With the brain power you claim to have behind you, the apparent interest in the subject, and the supposed time you've invested in this idea, all these answers, all the unraveling, should have been done a hundred times over by now.

So why isn't it?

Quote: eagleeye2

Face,

What you illude to is just more subterfuge, Dam you should realize that!

With your Common Sense, DO or DO you NOT agree with the following?

Face,

I posted ""1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's."" Yada, Yada, Yada...

Yes, that is the ONLY answer to this Video that is possible: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx7aVMKCOQ&feature=youtu.be ).

And this much longer one: http://dicecraps.blogspot.com/search/label/Biased%20Dice

Yes, seeing is Believing, other than form those that Believe Trickery was involved in creating the above Video's.

Get real folks, those that posted the Video's are out to Present Reality, not deceive you as some here tend to believe.

eagleeye2

Quote: eagleeye2

Wrongo AxleWolf, it is not one, but many, including An EXPERT TEAM AS fOLLOWS:

We have identified casinos that are methodically using unbalanced Biased Dice to increase their house advantage at Craps. Over the past 2 years, we have assembled a Biased Dice Research Team which includes over a dozen dice detectives with professional resumes that include:
- a double PhD tenured Math professor;
- a NASA aerospace scientist;
- a retired plastics engineer;
- a mechanical engineer;
- an electrical engineer;
- 2 finance majors;
- a CPA;
- a computer geek;
- and 4 craps players that live and play in Las Vegas almost every day of the year
(collectively we have 8 regulation size craps tables).

Casinos and gaming commissions do not see using unbalanced dice as an illegal act, but simply changing the odds in the same fashion as 6:5 Black Jack --- Giving the house more favorable odds with 6:5 BJ. As noted somewhere...

Copied from this link: ( http://crapsadvantageplayers.blogspot.com/p/biased-dice.html )

Of course the nay~swayers on this thread po-po REALITY, including that in the LINK Above!

Get with it Guys & contribute to the solution!

eagleeye2

Quote: eagleeye2

Face,

What you illude to is just more subterfuge, Dam you should realize that!

Quote: eagleeye2

With your Common Sense, DO or DO you NOT agree with the following?

Quote: AxelWolf

Perhaps not trickery, just cherry picking.:

axleWOLF,

Not Cherry Picking, when 100% of Certain Dice, as used in most Las Vegas Casino's, FAIL On a Dice Balancing Caliper, like that shown in this link!
( http://www.gamblersgeneralstore.com/store/p/1876-Dice-Balancing-Caliper.aspx ).

All here should attempt to Understand how, when properly utilized, the Dice Balancing Caliper is 100% Capable of establishing if if a Die is BALANCED or NOT & to Document that Face of the Die that exhibits itself as HEAVIER than the other Faces of that Die.

As I have stated previously, the Dice Balancing Caliper, discussed on this thread is NOT Capable of Establishing the Amount of Unbalance in a DIE, nor physical dimensions of that Die, only if that Die is essentially Balanced or NOT, & the specific FACE of a Die that has been confirmed UNBALANCED!

View, with your own EYES how these Dice are 100% unbalanced in favor of the# (6) Face here:

I posted ""1) Somehow weight the # 5 & 6 Faces, which produce an abnormal # of 1's & 2's."" Yada, Yada, Yada...

Yes, that is the ONLY answer to this Video that is possible: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx7aVMKCOQ&feature=youtu.be ).

Why not accept REALITY & make an attempt to solve the CRAPS ~ DICE UNBALANCE MYSTERY ~ DICE PHYSICAL DATA

eagleeye2