Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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April 22nd, 2013 at 2:37:15 PM permalink
Ahigh, you explained with a lame backhanded attempt to say that someone might be able to control 12's coming up more often. You took half a page to say nothing that could help him. He wants to learn craps not search for a unicorn.

The field is not a good bet compared to other options while you are learning. If you want to learn how to play craps, start with a passline bet. That's just as easy to learn and a way better bet. Add odds once your comfortable with how the passline works. You could just play passline and odds and watch everything else and be in way better shape then trying any "system" on the field.

Good luck!

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
Joined: Jul 30, 2012
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April 22nd, 2013 at 2:41:49 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

The less experienced person might not have fun trying to play the game the way that you do it.

Fighting BS one post at a time!
Jimbo
Jimbo
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
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April 22nd, 2013 at 2:51:22 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

Fewer and bigger bets in the field could quite possibly do better than a typical session of yours, Jimbo!!!

Now calm down, Aaron. Please don't take it personal if my advice may differ from yours.

And, yes, you did explain the "costs" of the field bet.

Just because someone is a beginner, does not mean they have to play "dumb" (and please do not interpret that I am suggesting you play dumb--or we will go off on a tangent).

I did advise "tgotch" that it is a good idea to practice away from the casino where he can learn the game without risking actual money. I am also sure that if he runs simulations on WinCraps, he will become a more informed player.

And I did say--or meant to say--that there is a difference in playing for "fun" or playing "smart."

I will never begrudge or criticize someone for approaching the game differently than I do. To each their own. Many people are not interested in playing craps in such a way where the house edge is the lowest. Just look at all the bets in the center of the table. Also consider your own play.

Many people are "gamblers" who play for fun and the thrill of catching that "hot" shooter or, as you put it, that possible "hot streak."

However, if a beginner (apparently with a genuine and sincere desire to learn) asks specifically about betting the field, then I am going to advise him to avoid betting the field. Because under no circumstance is it a "smart" bet. Nor is there any such thing as a "strategy" that justifiably includes the field bet.

I do not view the game of craps as so complicated that it is imperative for a beginner to bet where the house edge is higher simply because that particular bet may be easier to understand. If that were the case, then the advice for beginners is to bet the Seven--since nothing could be more simple--yet that bet has the highest house edge on the table.

Quote: Ahigh

Given the above arguments, what's your strategy for dealing with people who make internet forums less entertaining for you?

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Not that it matters.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 22nd, 2013 at 2:51:23 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

No, it does not work.



Any system will work until it stops working. Given a sufficient number of events, all betting systems fail.

But there are in fact some people who bet fewer than 10 bets per year on the game. The field only becomes a bad way to play the game the more you play it that way.

If we compare apples to apples, and look at the advantage per bet, the difference isn't even 7x. It's more like 2x.

Some people don't want to stand there all day long and just want to make one bet and be done.

It's still better than roulette for that type of player.

Your comments are very myopically assuming that people who don't think they way you do don't exist.

It does work! It ABSOLUTELY WORKS for more 44% of the people who only ever want to make one craps bet in their life!

And 2.78% of those people QUADRUPLE THEIR MONEY!

Stop thinking like the way you do it is the only way that is worthwhile.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 22nd, 2013 at 2:56:18 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

The less experienced player will have more fun becoming a more experienced player and forgetting about the Field.



Or they could become a degenerate gambler and lose everything they worked for their entire life. But I'm sure you know better than me that they will have more fun the more they play.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 22nd, 2013 at 2:59:28 PM permalink
And for anyone reading, betting the field and losing a hundred bucks or two hundred bucks while you're watching others lose more money doing more complicated things is not a bad idea.

The worst thing I hate to see is someone taking the "smart" odds bet betting way more than they feel comfortable betting normally because "it's a good deal" and losing way more money than they ever imagined they might because they got unlucky.

For NEARLY every one of these people, there's another person who wins.

But the sad story side can be very sad, is all.

I watched mathematically intelligent old man lose over five grand at lunch today thinking he was betting smart by getting the best house edge on the don't pass with full odds on a $25 minimum table.

He sure did get unlucky on my roll. He kept chasing and losing and chasing and losing.

But he had a great bet in theory.

The dealers assured me not to worry about his money as he loses often.

I won a $50 pass line bet with $150 odds on a 4-point. He lost MUCH more than I won on that roll! But he had a better house edge than I did, so that counts for something.

The nice thing is that the house gave me no heat at all to roll that winning roll.

The bottom line is, bet however you want, but the field has a 2.78% edge per roll. You are better off sticking with bets that have lower edges per roll, and I agree with that. But bet small in the field and learn the game if you want, and don't let the "smart guys" who lose more than you worry you with their condemnation of your naive approach to the game. You're fine if you can handle the higher edge with smaller bets, don't worry about it.

Another nice thing about the field is that it can win when the table is what the smart guys would call "cold." Lots of crap rolls means come away, but single the field, or double, or triple.

So you're sort of betting on crap and you're betting on numbers that don't come up as often as the numbers in the middle (the 5, 6, 7, and the 8).

Most of the "smart" betters are betting on the 6 and 8 either through odds or place bets.

If they are losing on a long roll, you can be laughing in the field while they are digging for more money.

One more point about the field, if you must bet the field, don't combine it with a passline or come bet at the same time. This is not as smart.

If you bet the field, don't take a bunch of other bets as you can unintentionally be hedging and making it much harder to win.
Jimbo
Jimbo
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
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April 22nd, 2013 at 3:10:41 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

And for anyone reading, betting the field and losing a hundred bucks or two hundred bucks while you're watching others lose more money doing more complicated things is not a bad idea.

This suggestion of yours is not only a bad idea--it is an absurd and terrible idea.

No one should pay anything while watching others play at the craps table. It is free to watch.

And but for the nominal cost of a software program such as WinCraps (or the free use of craps simulations on the internet), no one need pay anything to learn the game away from the casino.

Your remark about your lunch session where you won while a "mathematically intelligent don't player" lost as if that is somehow supportive of your argument for betting the field or for playing dumb does not deserve a response.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 22nd, 2013 at 3:15:04 PM permalink
Quote: Jimbo

Your remark about your lunch session where you won while a "mathematically intelligent don't player" lost as if that is somehow supportive of your argument for betting the field or for playing dumb does not deserve a response.



Let me be more specific: smart people lose too! The way to win at the game isn't to be smart, it's to be lucky.

In the short term, being smart about the difference in the edge between the pass line and the field doesn't even MATTER. It's only in the longer term that it matters.

If you are suggesting not to play the game until you know how to play it, I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

Play and bet the game as you learn. You tell someone to bet the pass line to be smart, and they don't get it yet, they'll be making bets with a 33.33% house advantage. Did you ever consider that?

I'll say it again, don't let experienced people tell you that your field bet is a bad bet. It's still about twice as good as playing double zero roulette any way you slice it if you get triple in the field.

I will make another point: the field bet is the easiest bet on the felt for a new player to understand. How about you prove me wrong on that point?
Jimbo
Jimbo
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
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April 22nd, 2013 at 3:26:35 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

You tell someone to bet the pass line to be smart, and they don't get it yet, they'll be making bets with a 33.33% house advantage.

I am inclined not to respond. You seem so consumed or obsessed on wanting the last word, you can have it.

I am sure the original poster has the answer to his question.

But I am baffled by your above remark that betting the pass line will be giving up a 33.33% house advantage. I am sure you are itching to enlighten me.
Ahigh
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
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April 22nd, 2013 at 3:28:10 PM permalink
Quote: Jimbo

This suggestion of yours is not only a bad idea--it is an absurd and terrible idea.



I disagree. In fact, your suggestion that the player learn about the game before they play it is what is absurd.

Some people want to play a simpler game than you. The extra seven cents per $5 bet on the field compared to a pass line bet is worth it if you only ever want the minimum amount on the felt at a time. There are LOTS of new players that this is EXACTLY what they want.

We are arguing about $0.07 for a player who isn't ready to make a single $30 bet or higher on a $5 table. This describes almost ALL new players in my mind.

My opinion about your advice is that you shouldn't play craps unless you understand how odds work.

I disagree.

That pretty much sums it all up!!

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