Worst plays you've ever witnessed
Quote: ZenKinGYes i meant downcard. Typo.
Regarding the next card, i dont know why you and others always try to think of the obvious exception and try to argue with me. Obviously if you have next card information, you either simply managed to see the next card, or youre sequencing or some other type of AP such as getting a peak at the last card before the cut and then cutting it into play. Im not talking about any of that. Im simply talking about strictly playing basic strategy or counting, but go ahead and keep trying to argue for the sake of arguing.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm telling you that you are wrong, that's all.
YES, it's possible to know the next card dealt.
YES, it's possible to know the dealers down card.
I've got much more experience than you in those fields, trust me.
And for the record, one of our BP's was once told "you're playing wrong" by a counter at our table who had no clue what was going on.
Quote: michael99000I've always said casinos should allow players to take insurance on their blackjack when the dealer shows a 10 value. As horrible as the odds are on it there are players who would take it. One for instance would be if someone randomly decides to bet way more on a hand than their usual bet amount. Let's say a $10/hand player randomly bets $1000 on a hand and gets a blackjack vs a dealer 10. I guarantee some would take even money in that situation out of fear of getting nothing if the dealer has that ace. The casino has nothing to lose aside from the extra few seconds it would take for the dealer to announce the insurance open being available on more hands
I have to think that's a horrible idea, unless you somehow structured the bet differently. It would occur 5x as often as it does, and the insurance on a 10 would only pay roughly 1 in 13 (without considering Effect of Removal to that point in the deck) times. I'm not great at card math, but I think it would exceed the 25% HE cap Nevada and other states have on any individual bet. Maybe if you paid 20% of your Ante and won 100% back or something like that, it would be ok.
Quote: TheoHuxtableI've never seen this happen but can you hit a hard 21?
Let's say a player puts out a big dealer bet, but mid-hand the dealer says something really really really off putting. Now the player wants to spitefully hit their three card 21. Will the floor allow it? Or is there some rule disallowing the player to take another card? Similar question on surrendering a Blackjack.
I believe the regulations in New Jersey state a player may NOT hit a 21.
But I've absolutely taken dealer tip money back between being paid and dealer scooping it up.
Quote: michael99000I've always said casinos should allow players to take insurance on their blackjack when the dealer shows a 10 value. As horrible as the odds are on it there are players who would take it. One for instance would be if someone randomly decides to bet way more on a hand than their usual bet amount. Let's say a $10/hand player randomly bets $1000 on a hand and gets a blackjack vs a dealer 10. I guarantee some would take even money in that situation out of fear of getting nothing if the dealer has that ace. The casino has nothing to lose aside from the extra few seconds it would take for the dealer to announce the insurance open being available on more hands
This bet was offered in the past and was called super insurance it paid 10 to 1. You could only bet 1/10th of your bet .
It was patented or trademarked but it never caught on.
One of the problems was it slowed the game down when dealer had to offer super insurance, which almost no one ever bet.
Quote: beachbumbabsI have to think that's a horrible idea, unless you somehow structured the bet differently. It would occur 5x as often as it does, and the insurance on a 10 would only pay roughly 1 in 13 (without considering Effect of Removal to that point in the deck) times. I'm not great at card math, but I think it would exceed the 25% HE cap Nevada and other states have on any individual bet. Maybe if you paid 20% of your Ante and won 100% back or something like that, it would be ok.
I'm not trying to say that taking insurance when dealt a blackjack vs. a 10 would be a good bet for the player. I'm just saying that if someone bet a life changing amount of money on one hand of bj and got dealt a blackjack vs a 10 that some of those people would take an automatic even money win over the 1/13 possibility of getting nothing in return.
Even though the math says it's not smart.
The other thread about having $5000 and needing to turn it into $10,000 to save your life is a great example. If I put my $5000 on a blackjack hand and I got dealt a bj vs a dealer ten I'd gladly take even money.
Or to make it a little more fair , the casino could offer the player say 130% of their bet before checking for the ace. Kinda the equivalent of how they offer even money now with an ace up before checking for the ten instead of going through the insurance bet process. 130% works out better for the casino in the long run then not offering any insurance at all. And players who aren't math savvy feel like the casinos doing them a favor when they get offered the even money vs a dealer ace so they might feel the same way about getting offered something vs the ten
Quote: RSI believe the regulations in New Jersey state a player may NOT hit a 21.
But I've absolutely taken dealer tip money back between being paid and dealer scooping it up.
Quote: NJSA
13:69F-2.12 Drawing of additional cards by players and the dealer
(a) A player may elect to draw additional cards whenever his or her point count total is less than 21 except that:
1. A player having blackjack or a hard or soft total of 21 may not draw additional cards;
Right.
Single deck game on the Strip years ago. Player betting minimum has tens against a dealer 6. Splits and wins both hands. Said he saw it in Skarne’s book.
Skarne’s Splitting Rules for Single Deck:
Always split 7’s when dealer card is 5,6,or 7.
Always split ten-count cards when dealer up card is 5 or 6.
Dealer blows tip in Arizona:
Player hits her A3 and draws a 7. Dealer says “Eleven”.
She hits before both realize the mistake. Too late. Hits once more and busts.
Guy was backbetting a very attractive woman in Connecticut and hitting on her, almost to the point of harrasment. She was getting really annoyed and the more she protested, the bolder he got. She was betting table minimum and he was betting near max. They were winning when she pulls a blackjack and he's looking for someone to hifive when she turned and says give me three black chips or I'm hitting it.
The BJ is worth over $1,000 and he protests to the dealer and pitiless, who has been monitoring the whole thing. They shrug and say
it's her hand. He hands her the chips and everyone at the table laughs at him. He collected his win and slunk away.
Quote: billryanWasn't there for this, but read about it on Ken Smith's forum.
Guy was backbetting a very attractive woman in Connecticut and hitting on her, almost to the point of harrasment. She was getting really annoyed and the more she protested, the bolder he got. She was betting table minimum and he was betting near max. They were winning when she pulls a blackjack and he's looking for someone to hifive when she turned and says give me three black chips or I'm hitting it.
The BJ is worth over $1,000 and he protests to the dealer and pitiless, who has been monitoring the whole thing. They shrug and say
it's her hand. He hands her the chips and everyone at the table laughs at him. He collected his win and slunk away.
Great AP move on her part.
Quote: billryanWasn't there for this, but read about it on Ken Smith's forum.
Guy was backbetting a very attractive woman in Connecticut and hitting on her, almost to the point of harrasment. She was getting really annoyed and the more she protested, the bolder he got. She was betting table minimum and he was betting near max. They were winning when she pulls a blackjack and he's looking for someone to hifive when she turned and says give me three black chips or I'm hitting it.
The BJ is worth over $1,000 and he protests to the dealer and pitiless, who has been monitoring the whole thing. They shrug and say
it's her hand. He hands her the chips and everyone at the table laughs at him. He collected his win and slunk away.
I have been hearing this story or a variation of it for years,even before the Ct casinos opened.
I am sure something like it has happened somewhere at somepoint in time,but I think it's fallen into the category of urban legend, just like the person who knows someone that got a royal playing (insert name of game here) and got so excited they picked up their cards and ran to next table to show their husband,so casino refused to pay them.
Naturally he's also holding kickers with pairs. Just watched him hold 33J.
Quote: HunterhillI have been hearing this story or a variation of it for years,even before the Ct casinos opened.
I am sure something like it has happened somewhere at somepoint in time,but I think it's fallen into the category of urban legend, just like the person who knows someone that got a royal playing (insert name of game here) and got so excited they picked up their cards and ran to next table to show their husband,so casino refused to pay them.
I wouldn't doubt you are correct. It may have happened in several different places. It's a great story and now everyone here knows what to do if ever put in a similar situation.
Quote: Timesharemooch30 and 2 come up one time out of 36
I've never seen 30 come up!
Quote: rsactuaryI've never seen 30 come up!
I've seen someone roll a 17.....he threw a few extra dice though.
a neighboring player, let alone watch their play.
Pending the game, sometimes you have time to kill. Say you're playing a carnival game and your hand is "set" for the round... You've got nothing else to do but watch the table/outcome. Or in blackjack when the cards are out and you're waiting to play...Quote: billryanIf you are playing positive games, time wasted watching other players hands is money lost. It's a rare occasion when I interact with
a neighboring player, let alone watch their play.
During this time, more money can be made with scavenger plays. While hole carding, I've scavenger bet other peoples (bafflingly) AMAZING hands after my hand was set. Always nice to bet these hands for greens or higher with a MASSIVE (50%-100%) edge on them =).
Interacting with other players (when you have 'downtime') keeps you looking casual, is more fun than sitting there quietly by yourself, and definitely generates more EV in the long run. The first 2 are my opinion, the last one is mathematical fact.
I was referring mostly to video poker. A couple weeks ago, I was playing at South Point when a couple sat down and started playing next to me. It must have taken me five minutes to notice it was a couple I knew from the dog park.
Sitting at first base a player is dealt a pair of 6s and the dealer has a 10 up. Of course he splits his 6s. The first card he draws another 6! So he could have had 18, but no... Now if splitting was right the first time (yes I know its not) then it must still be right... but no, now he hits the 12 and busts. On the second 6 her draws an 8 and stands. Oh my...
Let's just say the rest of the table was happy to see him lose it all a few hands later and leave.
Quote: bj4funJust got home from a few days in AC at the Borgata and I have a new nominee for this topic...
Sitting at first base a player is dealt a pair of 6s and the dealer has a 10 up. Of course he splits his 6s. The first card he draws another 6! So he could have had 18, but no... Now if splitting was right the first time (yes I know its not) then it must still be right... but no, now he hits the 12 and busts. On the second 6 her draws an 8 and stands. Oh my...
Let's just say the rest of the table was happy to see him lose it all a few hands later and leave.
Pure Evil about being happy that someone got felted... especially since in Black Jack this persons play has no bearing on your play and since your screen name is Black Jack For FUN!! I suppose this is one reason I hardly play poker anymore.... too much hate. I never understood players getting upset from some fish drawing a two outer on them. Don't you want to have that kind of an edge every hand you run?
Quote: monet0412Pure Evil about being happy that someone got felted... especially since in Black Jack this persons play has no bearing on your play and since your screen name is Black Jack For FUN!! I suppose this is one reason I hardly play poker anymore.... too much hate. I never understood players getting upset from some fish drawing a two outer on them. Don't you want to have that kind of an edge every hand you run?
Not only that, but to any extent that the Rules of a particular house haven't gone to complete garbage, you need players like that to supplement the House Edge. Granted, that does mean you need them to lose...but playing like that, it'll happen sooner or later anyway.
He was obviously telling us she had a BJ so me and my buddy took insurance. The other players didn't :)
They got dealt 9TJQA. It was the wife's turn to make a hold. She hesitated for a second and I thought, "Oh, she's thinking about it for a second (good), because oftentimes people hold the T-A thinking holding the extra high card is better because an extra shot at a high pair." What did she hold? Well, you can probably guess, as I wouldn't be posting this in this thread if.....BUT WAIT -- she got it right! She held the 9TJQ. Again, I'm like oh ok cool, she (likely) used some logic and figured an outside straight draw is better than an inside straight draw with an extra high card. Then her husband was like, "No, the T-A is better." I thought, meh, it's not that bad of a decision (of all decisions and mistakes you can make in general), at least he has a reason for thinking T-A is better than 9-Q, since there's an extra high card, easy mistake to make. But then, the most striking part, was his reasoning, something like, "This is double double bonus....Aces are good! Therefore you want to hold the ten through ace because there's an ace in it."
Earlier today (or maybe yesterday....what day is it now?) I saw a lady hold a Q only in deuces wild instead of 4 to outside straight. At least you can argue she's going for a royal flush -- at least that's typically the argument for holding a solo high card in DW is, I assume. But she threw away a suited T so she couldn't even make a natural RF by holding the Q only.
Quote: Mission146You see all kinds of bonkers plays on Deuces Wild, especially on UX. Maybe I just notice them on UX from vulturing, but some of the holds people make are bizarre. You're talking things like a Three-Straight (No SF Draw) with a Deuce. I've also seen hands like the one pictured more times than I can count, a Deuce with a single high card. I can only imagine the hold the casinos are getting off of people who play like that.
On top of that, the people who hold 2A in DW (not DWB) wouldn't hold 2T thru 2K, because the ace is the highest of high cards. Sort'a like when people hold A only in JOB or a K over a J.
Quote: Mission146You see all kinds of bonkers plays on Deuces Wild, especially on UX. Maybe I just notice them on UX from vulturing, but some of the holds people make are bizarre. You're talking things like a Three-Straight (No SF Draw) with a Deuce. I've also seen hands like the one pictured more times than I can count, a Deuce with a single high card. I can only imagine the hold the casinos are getting off of people who play like that.
Yesterday, an older lady playing DW held 2AA5. Apparently hoping for a full house.
Quote: Mission146Sadly, they were probably just holding the Flush Draw. I hope it was at least a 4-4-3-2.
No, I think it was "Colorado Deuces" lol
25/16/13/4/3/2
Quote: tringlomaneNo, I think it was "Colorado Deuces" lol
25/16/13/4/3/2
I think this is the common pay table for nickel and dime UX.
To me it doesn't matter though. I seem to always get dealt As, Jd, 9c, 5h, 3d when vulturing this game!
Quote: RSCouple playing next to me playing $1 ten play DDB UX. They were switching back and forth as to who'd hold and draw and all that stuff, that you sometimes see with couples.
Isn't that romantic. Bleah!
Quote: RSThey got dealt 9TJQA.....But she threw away a suited T so she couldn't even make a natural RF by holding the Q only.
Alot of players, especially couples who play together are there to spend time together, not to play any kind of strategy that makes sense. And people who play DW unless sober or completely sane will screw up strategies vs JoB, DDB, TDB, or Deuces.
Deuces are funny. I like to play them but I question my own sense as I like the idea of playing DDB and taking shorter runs at getting 4ofaK and hope that the 4ofaK is something meaningful likes Aces or 2-3-4s with a kicker vs getting sucked dry waiting for 4 2s or a Royal to miraculously appear.
My problem is that I'll pound a machine until something nice appears and sometimes I'll run out of time before "that something nice appears". I'm moving to DB / DDB games where I can leave more often and can accept a loss when a simple 4ofaK appears.
Quote: boymimbo
My problem is that I'll pound a machine until something nice appears and sometimes I'll run out of time before "that something nice appears". I'm moving to DB / DDB games where I can leave more often and can accept a loss when a simple 4ofaK appears.
I'm sorry but you've opened yourself up to some attacks here. Your strategy makes me think of many things. I think about weakness and a wounded, tired gazelle near the water with the lionesses pouncing on the kill. Interestingly the Jackals are in the wings ready to poach or just be happy with a scavenger play. Honestly I'm not sure who is smarter but I like the Jackals method and style.
Next I think about when I'm playing with my wife and we're up 8k in 30 mins and she wants to quit. I tell her... we didn't come here to win 8k... we came here to work! Now stop yakking and push those buttons, if you have to yak, yak but play while you yikity yak in my ear.
I guess the point is that quitting just because something good happens will only hurt your hourly.
Also your gonna have some serious losing playing DDB compared to FPDW or even 16/10 Deuces. Buckle up Buttercup if your playing that wave of the future DDB.
Quote: boymimboIsn't that romantic. Bleah!
Alot of players, especially couples who play together are there to spend time together, not to play any kind of strategy that makes sense. And people who play DW unless sober or completely sane will screw up strategies vs JoB, DDB, TDB, or Deuces.
Deuces are funny. I like to play them but I question my own sense as I like the idea of playing DDB and taking shorter runs at getting 4ofaK and hope that the 4ofaK is something meaningful likes Aces or 2-3-4s with a kicker vs getting sucked dry waiting for 4 2s or a Royal to miraculously appear.
My problem is that I'll pound a machine until something nice appears and sometimes I'll run out of time before "that something nice appears". I'm moving to DB / DDB games where I can leave more often and can accept a loss when a simple 4ofaK appears.
Have you tried BPD (Bonus Poker Deluxe)? Same thing as 9/6 JOB, except 2 pair pays 5 instead of 10, and all 4oaks pay 400 instead of 125. Assuming it's 9/6, has a better return than 9/6 DDB or 9/7 DB. But if you catch a small hot streak of four of a kinds, you can actually win quite a bit in a short period of time. The only times you "get screwed" compared to DB is when you get four A's and you lose 400 credits (since you win 400 instead of 800). Versus DDB, ya lose 400 on 2-4's w/ kicker and A's, and 1600 when you get AWAK. But 5-K's you're getting an extra 150. 2-4's you're getting the same amount.
Stretch straight draw = 5 7 8 10, 4 5 7 9 etc.
Quote: monet0412I'm sorry but you've opened yourself up to some attacks here. Your strategy makes me think of many things. I think about weakness and a wounded, tired gazelle near the water with the lionesses pouncing on the kill. Interestingly the Jackals are in the wings ready to poach or just be happy with a scavenger play. Honestly I'm not sure who is smarter but I like the Jackals method and style.
Next I think about when I'm playing with my wife and we're up 8k in 30 mins and she wants to quit. I tell her... we didn't come here to win 8k... we came here to work! Now stop yakking and push those buttons, if you have to yak, yak but play while you yikity yak in my ear.
I guess the point is that quitting just because something good happens will only hurt your hourly.
Also your gonna have some serious losing playing DDB compared to FPDW or even 16/10 Deuces. Buckle up Buttercup if your playing that wave of the future DDB.
I'm not an advantage player nor do I claim to be. I live in central California where most of the VP sucks. I have a very good day-job where I work from home and have no desire to become AP.
Nor do I recommend my strategy to anyone else. I am the stooge that makes advantage play possible! A ploppy. An addict. All of these.
My hourly is negative. And I freely admit it, and am okay with that.
Quote: boymimboI'm not an advantage player nor do I claim to be. I live in central California where most of the VP sucks. I have a very good day-job where I work from home and have no desire to become AP.
Nor do I recommend my strategy to anyone else. I am the stooge that makes advantage play possible! A ploppy. An addict. All of these.
My hourly is negative. And I freely admit it, and am okay with that.
Oh... for some reason I thought you were playing more serious. I thought it was you who broke down the 99.3 version of Jokers I play at the 5 dollar level. I got the message now though and will store it for future reference.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat, no one has ever held a stretch straight draw when playing super fast for hours?
Stretch straight draw = 5 7 8 10, 4 5 7 9 etc.
I threw away a 3 of a kind on Pick-em after playing for 10 hours,I quit after that.
I don't think I've ever thrown anything out that was too juicy at face value.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat, no one has ever held a stretch straight draw when playing super fast for hours?
Stretch straight draw = 5 7 8 10, 4 5 7 9 etc.
Once or twice on Deuces.
Ya, that seems to be the most common game to do it on. You probably would not make that mistake on a JOB where you don't go for inside straights anyways.Quote: Mission146Once or twice on Deuces.
Don't get me wrong, Monet. I do like going on big point multiplier days and play really good machines when I head up to Reno, but my bankroll and amount of time available doesn't allow me to chase slot jackpots or play long term. And I play video poker pretty ideally, not perfect, but I've done VP analysis on myself and came out very good in the games that I've played. So I don't have the opportunity to play advantage play as there are only 3 casinos within an hour drive from my house and all of them are California tribe casinos.
