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April 28th, 2020 at 3:50:30 PM permalink
Quote: sara312777

no mistakes are made and every card is dealt.


Thereís lots of details Iím excluding about the machines mainly cuz I could ramble on for hours about the red flags I see like the shufflers functions, shuffle master in poker rooms despite the steep price tag and how depressing it is dealing on these shufflers for the players and dealers alike. On a good day itís nothing for me to drop 1500 in tips on a 25 dollar hand shuffle table but machine shuffle I would regularly walk away with less than 20 dollars in the toke box and a migraine from the players bitching and whining all day about losing non stop ( and rightfully so.)



These two things ring a bell with me. When playing blackjack- Iíll attempt to redefine your perfect play comment - you can NOT do whatís called defection. The game is meant to be played a specific way. IMO this is why surrendering is not legal in specific places.

When you say play perfect, donít forget that there is always a backup card for the dealer which is usually one more than your total. If you defect in a way that is against basic strategy and you let the game play out ďanotherĒ way, you will be punished by losing.

When there is a double on board for you or another player such as 11 or 10 and the dealer has a 6 showing, had that person not doubled the dealer would have bust but instead the dealer pulls a miraculous 21 to kill the table and you now pushed.


I could go on I believe the words you say but IMO only the two things that I quoted are the things I agree with but I see this completely different.
Zcore13
Zcore13
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April 28th, 2020 at 4:00:57 PM permalink
Quote: AceCrAAckers

At the pai gow table, with a shuffle machine and rng that is electronic, I have seen the dealer win way more than statically realistic. I will grant that the sample size is small, but in over a hour of hands played, the dealer always had at least a joker or an ace.

I have mentioned this to the dealers there and they tend to agree that the house has more than their share of good hands. This place does not let players bank.

If everything is random, why not use dice to determine who gets the first hand?

Even when the casino is packed, and many players are on the baccarat tables, the pai gow tables are empty, or just one or two players.

I have never heard a good reason for rng and not using dice?



I good reason to not use dice in Ca and Az and I'm sure in others, is that using dice is illegal. I'll save my breath on your analysis and poor recollection skills of the 100% result of dealer getting an Ace or Joker.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
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April 28th, 2020 at 4:10:10 PM permalink
I should mention Iíve been almost kicked out of sands Bethlehem for accusing the blackjack machines of cheating. The basic answer I got was that there is no way to enforce a house edge and random is random and it doesnít have any type of limiting percentage on it or way to make sure itís not performing in any way. Thatís what random is. It can be bad it can be good. Thatís why itís random. But once again Iím on your side I truly believe these things are ďriggedĒ as they say... the problem is that there is nothing legally that says they canít rig the decks, but the procedures to keep people from rigging them are rigorous...
BedWetterBetter
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April 28th, 2020 at 7:08:26 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I should mention Iíve been almost kicked out of sands Bethlehem for accusing the blackjack machines of cheating.



Sands PA is one of the strictest casinos I've ever been to when it comes to prohibitive actions against "verbal threats" or accusatory statements. Had a guy get ejected from a table because he called another a 'Jackass' for doubling A-9 against dealer 6, when the table kindly asked him not to. The one who doubled and ended up pushing while the rest lost was telling them he felt "unsafe" after being threatened.

So I wouldn't say you were on to them by proclaiming things were rigged, they just don't want people arguing and potentially fighting over nothing.
michael99000
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April 28th, 2020 at 7:38:01 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I should mention Iíve been almost kicked out of sands Bethlehem for accusing the blackjack machines of cheating. The basic answer I got was that there is no way to enforce a house edge and random is random and it doesnít have any type of limiting percentage on it or way to make sure itís not performing in any way. Thatís what random is. It can be bad it can be good. Thatís why itís random. But once again Iím on your side I truly believe these things are ďriggedĒ as they say... the problem is that there is nothing legally that says they canít rig the decks, but the procedures to keep people from rigging them are rigorous...



How do the shufflers at Sands know where the player will cut the cards at the start ?

And how does the shuffler account for the relief dealer coming in and burning a card at some random point ?
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April 28th, 2020 at 7:54:29 PM permalink
Quote: michael99000

How do the shufflers at Sands know where the player will cut the cards at the start ?

And how does the shuffler account for the relief dealer coming in and burning a card at some random point ?



The ďrandom walksĒ are cyclical.
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April 28th, 2020 at 8:03:25 PM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

Sands PA is one of the strictest casinos I've ever been to when it comes to prohibitive actions against "verbal threats" or accusatory statements. Had a guy get ejected from a table because he called another a 'Jackass' for doubling A-9 against dealer 6, when the table kindly asked him not to. The one who doubled and ended up pushing while the rest lost was telling them he felt "unsafe" after being threatened.

So I wouldn't say you were on to them by proclaiming things were rigged, they just don't want people arguing and potentially fighting over nothing.



Never claimed I was on to them

There isnít on to them random is random and thatís anything and everything

Letís just say Iím lucky because of the people I know. There is a 50 50 split about the employees who work there who like me and ones who donít. The only reason I wasnít kicked out permanently is because the lady who wanted me out was about to end her shift, and the guy who was supposed to add me to the system saw how much money I had spent and the time I put into the place was not worth them kicking me out IMO. I also was very calm about the whole situation and said ďyou can kick me out but all that I asked was one question and that was if there was some kind of statistical test that was applied to the machinesĒ and they specifically told me that there was not any statistical test applied and answered my question ( they still wanted me thrown out even after answering my question)

Iíve almost had this happen when I accused the roulette tables of cheating too. The same lady handled the situation and remembered me when I approached with the blackjack question.

She said ď this is unhealthy we need to ban this person ď
BedWetterBetter
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April 28th, 2020 at 8:11:10 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Never claimed I was on to them

There isnít on to them random is random and thatís anything and everything

Letís just say Iím lucky because of the people I know. There is a 50 50 split about the employees who work there who like me and ones who donít. The only reason I wasnít kicked out permanently is because the lady who wanted me out was about to end her shift, and the guy who was supposed to add me to the system saw how much money I had spent and the time I put into the place was not worth them kicking me out IMO. I also was very calm about the whole situation and said ďyou can kick me out but all that I asked was one question and that was if there was some kind of statistical test that was applied to the machinesĒ and they specifically told me that there was not any statistical test applied and answered my question ( they still wanted me thrown out even after answering my question)

Iíve almost had this happen when I accused the roulette tables of cheating too. The same lady handled the situation and remembered me when I approached with the blackjack question.

She said ď this is unhealthy we need to ban this person ď



Sheesh, and I thought AC dealers were salty and uptight. Even though I haven't been to Sands since the name change to Wind Creek, I remember most BJ dealers having a sense of humor.

The floor personnel are another story, they are some of the saddest and most bitter people I've dealt with. I remember many times where they shorted somebody on a payout and I would speak up and point out their mistake, only to be told by pit bosses to 'mind my own business' or "we'll deal with it, we don't need YOUR help!"

As if I did something wrong by pointing out the error?
michael99000
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heatmapForager
April 28th, 2020 at 8:18:27 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

The ďrandom walksĒ are cyclical.



So do you think thereís a management level person in the employee breakroom , who knows how long it takes each dealer , based on their walking speed , to get to their BJ table? And someone from the table cues them when the dealer should begin walking so that they arrive at the table and burn the card at a precise point where the prerigged cards need it to happen?
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April 28th, 2020 at 8:28:11 PM permalink
Quote: BedWetterBetter

Sheesh, and I thought AC dealers were salty and uptight. Even though I haven't been to Sands since the name change to Wind Creek, I remember most BJ dealers having a sense of humor.

The floor personnel are another story, they are some of the saddest and most bitter people I've dealt with. I remember many times where they shorted somebody on a payout and I would speak up and point out their mistake, only to be told by pit bosses to 'mind my own business' or "we'll deal with it, we don't need YOUR help!"

As if I did something wrong by pointing out the error?



No this had nothing to do with floor personnel this started when I got sick of the stadium blackjack people yelling that it was rigged. This was completely on me I know where the gaming control board is and I like to bother them. I see the same patterns in the stadium as I do at the tables. And people kept yelling itís rigged. So I went and asked that question. The person who took my question had no clue. Went to get her boss and thatís the unlucky part. She just so happened to be the last lady to take my complaint about the roulette wheels. Got lucky when I was able to get the other security gaurd alone and calmly explain why I was there. All he cared about was if someone else complained about me and if I was bothering people and I wasnít so he threw me out for the day and I never have gone back since.

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