jeff057
jeff057
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December 7th, 2018 at 8:58:43 AM permalink
I recently attended a fundraiser where prizes were handed out based on chips accumulated in 1.5 hrs. I saw a coworker cheating at this event and called him on it at the time, but nothing was done. Simple cheat of adding to his bet when he would win. He walked away with the first place prize of $500 and it isn't sitting right with me at all.

Anyway, he started with 500 chips and went to 6,000 in 1 hour - call it 120 hands tops? Could someone please help me back into the odds of this? 6 deck shoe, 3 splits, double down, dealer peeks, not sure what else you gurus need, but it's your typical charity blackjack game rules.

Thanks!
ahiromu
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December 7th, 2018 at 9:11:22 AM permalink
I'm not a blackjack guru, but you also need to mention his betting pattern. Was there a max bet? What I'm getting at is that you can go from 500 to 6000 by parlaying four times with relative ease (.42^4 iirc?), but if there was a max bet of 100, then 55 units in a hundred hands is kind of suspect.

Past posting is one of the most basic forms of casino cheating. How someone could get away with it, even in a charity situation...
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
OnceDear
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jeff057
December 7th, 2018 at 9:12:31 AM permalink
Quote: jeff057

Anyway, he started with 500 chips and went to 6,000 in 1 hour - call it 120 hands tops? Could someone please help me back into the odds of this? 6 deck shoe, 3 splits, double down, dealer peeks, not sure what else you gurus need, but it's your typical charity blackjack game rules.

Thanks!



That's pretty despicable behavior if true.
Anyhow, assuming his starting bankroll of 500 wasn't replenishable, then his probability of reaching 6000 was just short of 500/6000 or 8.33%
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/oncedear/blog/5/#post1370
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Ayecarumba
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December 7th, 2018 at 9:15:59 AM permalink
Quote: jeff057

I recently attended a fundraiser where prizes were handed out based on chips accumulated in 1.5 hrs. I saw a coworker cheating at this event and called him on it at the time, but nothing was done. Simple cheat of adding to his bet when he would win. He walked away with the first place prize of $500 and it isn't sitting right with me at all.

Anyway, he started with 500 chips and went to 6,000 in 1 hour - call it 120 hands tops? Could someone please help me back into the odds of this? 6 deck shoe, 3 splits, double down, dealer peeks, not sure what else you gurus need, but it's your typical charity blackjack game rules.

Thanks!



If you reported him at the time, and nothing was done about it, there is nothing productive to be done regarding the event now. However, in the future, if a similar event is held, boycott it, and encourage your other co-workers to do likewise.

I would also examine my financial dealings with the cheater, and consider separating myself and the company's assets from those under his control as much as possible. If someone is willing to cheat co-workers at a charity event, there are probably other shenanigans going on.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
jeff057
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December 7th, 2018 at 9:35:41 AM permalink
No max bet so I guess it is not completely astronomical odds. Thanks for your help.
billryan
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December 7th, 2018 at 10:23:44 AM permalink
Just to be clear- his cheating let him win a prize that would have been awarded anyway. The charity wasn't cheated, was it?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
FinsRule
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December 7th, 2018 at 11:17:31 AM permalink
I’m not a lawyer, but I’m thinking intentionally cheating would probably be against the law, even if the charity didn’t lose money.

I would think intentionally cheating in a home poker game is against the law too, right?
OnceDear
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December 7th, 2018 at 12:04:36 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

I’m not a lawyer, but I’m thinking intentionally cheating would probably be against the law, even if the charity didn’t lose money.

I would think intentionally cheating in a home poker game is against the law too, right?

If he cheated, then he stole. The ultimate victim isn't relevant. There was one, maybe a benevolent winner who'd have just donated back to the charity. I've no doubt such cheating, if it occurred, was against criminal law in just about every jurisdiction.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
jeff057
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December 7th, 2018 at 12:26:48 PM permalink
Confirmed - charity not stolen from, just attendees of event where person with most chips at end of time period wins. Charity still gets their share from all attendees.
billryan
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December 7th, 2018 at 12:42:52 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

I’m not a lawyer, but I’m thinking intentionally cheating would probably be against the law, even if the charity didn’t lose money.

I would think intentionally cheating in a home poker game is against the law too, right?



I can only imagine the reaction of the cop who responds to such a 911 call. If cheating at a home poker game is illegal, is cheating at Monopoly? Risk? Pac Man?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Romes
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December 7th, 2018 at 1:28:52 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

I’m not a lawyer, but I’m thinking intentionally cheating would probably be against the law, even if the charity didn’t lose money.

I would think intentionally cheating in a home poker game is against the law too, right?

Yeah, I think it would be some kind of fraud... or defacing a charity (pulling from the prizes they offer non-cheating donors).
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
billryan
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December 7th, 2018 at 1:40:42 PM permalink
Good luck trying to prove you were harmed by his actions.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
charliepatrick
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December 7th, 2018 at 2:41:37 PM permalink
The way we used to run chairty events was you could buy in and then however many chips you had at the end of the evening, you got raffle tickets. That way it isn't "winner takes all", although obviously winners will have more tickets than others. Also it begins to get embarrassing if someone keeps winning lots of prizes (and there's a difference between winning $500 and lots of prizes like bottles of whisky).

As an aside the rules in the UK used to be fairly tight so I'm not exactly sure what's allowed these days.
FinsRule
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December 7th, 2018 at 3:33:55 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I can only imagine the reaction of the cop who responds to such a 911 call. If cheating at a home poker game is illegal, is cheating at Monopoly? Risk? Pac Man?



If there is a risk tournament and there’s significant money on the line and there’s evidence, then sure.
ChumpChange
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December 7th, 2018 at 5:22:25 PM permalink
I think I turned 30 $100 chips into 120 $100 chips at a charity blackjack game, but there was no money involved. It was decades ago.
The college students running the game did NOT know how to play the game, so I had to teach them just about every hand, but I was just a random player on the scene. They didn't know if I was telling them the truth or not, and none of the other players knew how to play the game either.
Zcore13
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December 7th, 2018 at 8:52:42 PM permalink
Quote: jeff057

I recently attended a fundraiser where prizes were handed out based on chips accumulated in 1.5 hrs. I saw a coworker cheating at this event and called him on it at the time, but nothing was done. Simple cheat of adding to his bet when he would win. He walked away with the first place prize of $500 and it isn't sitting right with me at all.

Anyway, he started with 500 chips and went to 6,000 in 1 hour - call it 120 hands tops? Could someone please help me back into the odds of this? 6 deck shoe, 3 splits, double down, dealer peeks, not sure what else you gurus need, but it's your typical charity blackjack game rules.

Thanks!



This kind of thing happens all the time at charity events. I've dealt them and I've supervised them. You've got players that don't know how to play games, drunk participants, a relaxed atmosphere, usually event dealers (not casino dealers).

If you are there to play serious, you are at the wrong place.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
gamerfreak
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December 7th, 2018 at 8:56:51 PM permalink
These play money casinos are like shooting fish in a barrel.

The one I go to for a holiday party each year gives you $1k in chips to play with, and then you can trade your chips in for raffle tickets. It’s not a charity event.

They deal BJ shoes down to the last card, the allowable spread is infinite. And if you engage the bored-at-work dealers they will clue you into the hole card or just straight up give you free chips.

There are around 15 raffle items in separate drawings that you can drop your tickets in. My strategy is to drop all my tickets into a single prize. I crinkle and bend the tickets a bit before entering them. I don’t know if that actually helps or not, but I’ve always done it superstitiously.

I won an iPad last year and an Xbox One X this year.
beachbumbabs
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December 7th, 2018 at 9:00:23 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I can only imagine the reaction of the cop who responds to such a 911 call. If cheating at a home poker game is illegal, is cheating at Monopoly? Risk? Pac Man?



Here in Central Florida, people kill each other over XBoxes and other gaming contests. At least 3 times in recent years. So it's not beyond imagining the cops do have to respond to some serious disagreements based on games elsewhere.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
AxelWolf
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December 8th, 2018 at 6:19:14 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I crinkle and bend the tickets a bit before entering them. I don’t know if that actually helps or not, but I’ve always done it superstitiously.

it absolutely works.


Many casinos are convinced it works as well (of course they thought DI worked too)

They have made rules about bent tickets.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
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December 8th, 2018 at 8:12:13 AM permalink
Where are these charity events and how do I get in? This sounds like some serious +EV. :) :) :)
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