supergrass
supergrass
Joined: Apr 6, 2014
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January 31st, 2015 at 9:36:44 AM permalink
So in this casino I saw a group of advantage players playing against 6 deck CSM. I know they are pros because I have seen them card counting and shuffle tracking at other casinos. The BJ rules are very good, maybe only 0.1% house edge. I cannot work out their system. I know they are not card counting as described on discountgambling web site.

Usually two or three person sit at one table but only the first-base-seated player bet and play. I think the extra person is just to lock up the table. They stick to one table during a session, but moves around between days.

He plays ~3 boxes at table minimum 85% of the time. The other 15% of the time he will bet something like small-big-big or small-big-big-big-small. The combined big bet per round is 3k USD plus. He plays basic strategy, no weird stuff. Dealer does not have a hole card.
The casino is medium size, every time they play the shift manager and casino manager will come. And they don't look friendly. The rumor is they win everyday...

Anyone can suggest what I should be watching for?
vendman1
vendman1
Joined: Mar 12, 2012
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January 31st, 2015 at 9:59:59 AM permalink
Quote: supergrass

So in this casino I saw a group of advantage players playing against 6 deck CSM. I know they are pros because I have seen them card counting and shuffle tracking at other casinos. The BJ rules are very good, maybe only 0.1% house edge. I cannot work out their system. I know they are not card counting as described on discountgambling web site.

Usually two or three person sit at one table but only the first-base-seated player bet and play. I think the extra person is just to lock up the table. They stick to one table during a session, but moves around between days.

He plays ~3 boxes at table minimum 85% of the time. The other 15% of the time he will bet something like small-big-big or small-big-big-big-small. The combined big bet per round is 3k USD plus. He plays basic strategy, no weird stuff. Dealer does not have a hole card.
The casino is medium size, every time they play the shift manager and casino manager will come. And they don't look friendly. The rumor is they win everyday...

Anyone can suggest what I should be watching for?



This is just a guess. But I'm sure it's something to do with card clumping. They must have figured out that when the cards are put back in the CSM that the groups or clumps of cards stay pretty close together. Not exactly the same order obviously. But a bunch of high cards probably tend to stay bunched. Again...just a guess. Is this a casino not in the US?...I have a feeling it is not.
pokerface
pokerface
Joined: May 9, 2010
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January 31st, 2015 at 10:04:56 AM permalink
Quote: supergrass



Anyone can suggest what I should be watching for?


So you are part of the casino management?

I guess the casino is not in US.
winning streaks come and go, losing streak never ends.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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January 31st, 2015 at 12:13:44 PM permalink
Quote: pokerface

So you are part of the casino management?

I guess the casino is not in US.

Exactly what I was thinking. This guy has way to much information on exactly how they are playing. "What should I be looking for" Forums are reason AP is so dam hard nowadays and why there's so much kess of it. Sure enough someone probably just helped the Casino.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
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January 31st, 2015 at 12:59:34 PM permalink
"The rumor is that they win every day" That's exactly what it is a rumor. I can't count how many times I've heard dealers say "that guy always wins" . You have to remember people have selective memory.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
tongni
tongni
Joined: Feb 27, 2013
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January 31st, 2015 at 1:48:14 PM permalink
With the added information that they are pros what they are doing should be obvious. Can you PM me the casino?

The OP is very unlikely to be management - his description is something anyone watching for ten minutes would pick up on.
MoeHoward
MoeHoward
Joined: Aug 31, 2014
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January 31st, 2015 at 2:57:01 PM permalink
See if they are "splitting for less" while back-betting the large bets.

For example, $100 in front, $3000 behind, the hand is dealt 8-8 vs. T. The player who wagered the $100 is in control of the spot. He splits the 8's, placing another $100 bet. House rules, though, allow the $3000 to be placed on the first 8 without needing to be matched on the other 8. The person who wagered $3000 behind gets to turn his hand from a 16 into an 8 for free.

supergrass
supergrass
Joined: Apr 6, 2014
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January 31st, 2015 at 4:47:41 PM permalink
Quote:

Is this a casino not in the US?


no, not in USA

Quote:

So you are part of the casino management?


no, not casino management. I just want to figure out their system so I can do the same.

Quote:

See if they are "splitting for less" while back-betting the large bets.


no, only 1 bet is allowed per box. only 1 person bets and plays; the other 2 person just watch.

Quote:

"The rumor is that they win every day" That's exactly what it is a rumor.


I am not interested because of the rumor. I am interested because they are definitely long time advantage players with history going back several years. And the fact they have enough confidence to place such a big bet.
Dieter
Dieter
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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January 31st, 2015 at 6:16:56 PM permalink
Quote: supergrass

I just want to figure out their system so I can do the same.



In general, AP against a CSM is tricky.

If you can't figure out what they're doing without (much) outside help, then no, you probably can't do a similar play.

In order for this to be a good play for you, you'd need at least a lot of time (like they're willing to invest) and a fairly healthily sized bankroll (like they're willing to play).
May the cards fall in your favor.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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January 31st, 2015 at 6:48:37 PM permalink
Quote: supergrass

no, not in USA


no, not casino management. I just want to figure out their system so I can do the same.


no, only 1 bet is allowed per box. only 1 person bets and plays; the other 2 person just watch.


I am not interested because of the rumor. I am interested because they are definitely long time advantage players with history going back several years. And the fact they have enough confidence to place such a big bet.

Perhaps make nice with them and see if they might be willing to include you somehow(assuming you have some skill and something to offer, perhaps helping them lock up a seat. Maybe take a small piece of the action at a lower % of the EV.

Obviously don't just bum rush approach them in the casino. Perhaps a few friendly head nods over the course of a week, so they notice you.

Not sure how you noticed something is happening including the fact they are winning every day but the casinos haven't and they let them continue .

PS. I wouldn't mention WOV and what you posted, this thread would be disturbing to say the least. If it was me playing and I found out you were posting up all this information publicly I wouldn't go anywhere near you. You should have sent someone like vendman1, tongni or some other helpful knowable BJers a PM first.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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