Is the dealer obligated to hit soft 17 ?
based upon personal reasons? For example the dealers wife(Player 2) could be one of the players playing at the Blackjack table and not hitting
his soft 17 would be advantageous to his wife not losing money.
Consider this scenario.
The dealer deals every player 2 cards, and then the dealer reveals his/her hand of A,6 (A soft 17)
Now the dealer has dealt two players at the table the following hands which they each decide to stand on.
Player 1 (Chooses to stand on 16 with cards of 10,6)
Player 2 (Chooses to stand on 17 with cards of 10,7)
So here is my question. Will the dealer hit his/her soft 17 with another card, taking on the risk that he/she could potentially lose?
Or will the dealer say the themselves, "okay the house beat one player and the second one has a push, so I will stop here".
Because really the dealer could end up dealing out his or her hand with the following cards, causing the dealer to bust.
A,6,5 (dealer deals himself a third card of a 5 which totals to 12)
A,6,5,10 (dealer deals himself a 10 value card which now causes him to bust with a total of 22)
Dealer must draw to 16 and stop on all 17s.
And I didn't even know there was such a thing as hitting a soft 17 because no Gentlemen who owned a casino in Vegas would ever stoop to even thinking such a thing.
..........
Then the Gentlemen sold out to corporations and the corporations brought in MBAs and nickle squeezers who soon graduated to becoming penny squeezers and the ethics of giving the player a decent bet went out the window about when Harrah's became Hilton's and embarked on decades of entity shuffling and Wall Street Focus instead of Customer Focus.
Now Vegas is a town of hotels and Profit Centers and restaurants and Penny Squeezers ... you can Belly Up To The Bar all you want but you will only get what the computer indicates your Comp Account allows because no one knows your name anymore and no one is a Gentleman anymore.
Quote: SnapBackSuppose you play Blackjack at a casino where the dealer hits soft 17. Is it mandatory that the dealer hit 17, or will the dealer strictly do so
based upon personal reasons?
Have you even played in a casino before?
I have indeed. However I rarely go to casinos, but every few years. So even though BlackJack is my favorite game, I have forgotten some of the rules. I could drive a few hours to the closest casino, and learn by trial and error, however I would prefer to do my homework first. So I hope you pardon my questions about Black Jack. It just feels good to also be able to get some human interaction, rather than relying solely on a book or google.
Cheers!
Quote: SnapBackHi Beethoven,
I have indeed. However I rarely go to casinos, but every few years. So even though BlackJack is my favorite game, I have forgotten some of the rules. I could drive a few hours to the closest casino, and learn by trial and error, however I would prefer to do my homework first. So I hope you pardon my questions about Black Jack. It just feels good to also be able to get some human interaction, rather than relying solely on a book or google.
Cheers!
Gotcha. Sounds like a legit question, so pardon the snarkiness.
Take care, and enjoy your next trip to the casino.
This is because the dealer is usually playing against multiple players at once. So the rules he or she abides by must be consistent. Now, it is preferable for the player that the dealer stands on Soft 17 because the dealer ends up with a slightly better final hand on average when Soft 17 is hit.
Hit on soft 17, or stand, is a very common rule that can vary by casino or even by table. But it is predefined, and printed right on the felt.
FYI. A dealer will always hit on any 16 and always stand on any 18.
17 is the only one where it can change, so that's why it gets a lot of discussion.
Similarly, blackjack may pay 3:2, or 6:5. Again, it's predetermined and printed on the felt or on the table rule sign.
Quote: tringlomaneThis is because the dealer is usually playing against multiple players at once. So the rules he or she abides by must be consistent. Now, it is preferable for the player that the dealer stands on Soft 17 because the dealer ends up with a slightly better final hand on average when Soft 17 is hit.
A testament to how much 17 sucks. Player stands on 17 due to high risk of busting if hitting, not because 17 should win.
Quote: Beethoven9thHave you even played in a casino before?
I should have asked the same question. Not only does the dealer not have any discretion about anything with regard to the rules of the game, but in what casino can dealers deal to friends, family, and loved ones? I sure as hell couldn't deal to my wife. For that matter, I was nervous about dealing to a former professor (who didn't recognize me) and to a friend's fiance. No way would I deal to my own wife.
Besides, she's a total ploppy anyway.
Quote: tilt247If the felt says dealer hits all soft 17's, don't play buddy. Keep walking. Make sure blackjack is 3-2 also, if it's 6-5, don't even think of playing and make sure you let everyone know how much of a scam it is. My good deed for the day. Carry on
Not everyone lives in Atlantic City. H17 is the new standard. As an AP, there are entire states where the H17 is the far superior game. Granted, this guy is no counter, but maybe the nearest S17 game is 8 hours away.
Quote: SonuvabishNot everyone lives in Atlantic City. H17 is the new standard. As an AP, there are entire states where the H17 is the far superior game. Granted, this guy is no counter, but maybe the nearest S17 game is 8 hours away.
I don't really agree that H17 is the new standard. There are plenty of good S17 games.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI don't really agree that H17 is the new standard. There are plenty of good S17 games.
There are more H17 games than S17 games. Outside of Atlantic City, H17 is the vast majority. In my opinion, something is not standard when it is not as common as the only other alternative.
Quote: Beethoven9thHave you even played in a casino before?
Don't go getting yourself banned for snarkiness B9
:-)
Quote: SonuvabishThere are more H17 games than S17 games. Outside of Atlantic City, H17 is the vast majority. In my opinion, something is not standard when it is not as common as the only other alternative.
I haven't played in enough states to really comment on that. But I have never had a problem finding a S17 game in either Las Vegas or northern California.
S17 still seems to be the standard for mid-high limit games (min. $50 or higher) in Vegas, on the strip. Presumably, that minimum drops if you go downtown or elsewhere in Vegas (but that's just a guess on my part).
In northern California, a large casino (with tens of blackjack tables) recently converted every single game to 3:2 S17 (including their single-deck games). This is an Indian casino, so no commission on the hands either -- it's regular blackjack. They sometimes have limits as low as $5, so it's not just for the high-limit games.
These are only two examples, but they are the two places that I play.
Quote: aceofspadesDon't go getting yourself banned for snarkiness B9
:-)
Yea, you never know when those two golfers are watching. Craig Stadler and Duffy Waldorf are everywhere.
Quote: 1BBYea, you never know when those two golfers are watching. Craig Stadler and Duffy Waldorf are everywhere.
The Walrus!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI haven't played in enough states to really comment on that. But I have never had a problem finding a S17 game in either Las Vegas or northern California.
S17 still seems to be the standard for mid-high limit games (min. $50 or higher) in Vegas, on the strip. Presumably, that minimum drops if you go downtown or elsewhere in Vegas (but that's just a guess on my part).
In northern California, a large casino (with tens of blackjack tables) recently converted every single game to 3:2 S17 (including their single-deck games). This is an Indian casino, so no commission on the hands either -- it's regular blackjack. They sometimes have limits as low as $5, so it's not just for the high-limit games.
These are only two examples, but they are the two places that I play.
Oh I haven't played in a great deal of places. I did recently see a study that revealed the percentage of games country-wide. I would agree that S!7 is easier to find at higher stakes, harder at lower. And that generally, it is not difficult to find somewhere...and for a non-AP, it's always going to be the better game, because penetration does not matter, and surrender and RSA are less important. Maybe for the high stakes game, S17 is still the standard, I don't know. But overall, to my knowledge, H17 has taken over on a per table basis. I would not recommend the OP play in the high stakes area!
Quote: aceofspadesDon't go getting yourself banned for snarkiness B9
That's my middle name. ;)
Which casinos?Quote: AxiomOfChoiceS17 still seems to be the standard for mid-high limit games (min. $50 or higher) in Vegas, on the strip. Presumably, that minimum drops if you go downtown or elsewhere in Vegas (but that's just a guess on my part).
Quote: aceofspadesDon't go getting yourself banned for snarkiness B9
:-)
Here is an absolutely true story. My mother, with her two best pals in high school (circa 1949), decided they wanted to invent a word just to see if it would take. They planned to use it in every conceivable instance and hope that someday it would pass into the vernacular. The word was "snarky" and its forms like "snark" and "snarkiness". And it meant then what it means now; roughly sass or sarcasm with a slightly mean twist. But it wasn't really in heavy use until the last 5 years or so, when we started seeing it in places like Time magazine and hearing it from political commentators. And now it's everywhere. Isn't that kind of cool?
In all seriousness, that's extremely cool, I wish I could invent a word that would become part of common vernacular. I've certainly invented words and word combinations, my favorite word being, "Disclude," and its many forms (discluding, discluded, disclusion) but nobody wants to disclude anything. They only want to exclude it, even though discluding something is excluding it in a very specific way.
Quote: Mission146Pics or it didn't happen!
In all seriousness, that's extremely cool, I wish I could invent a word that would become part of common vernacular. I've certainly invented words and word combinations, my favorite word being, "Disclude," and its many forms (discluding, discluded, disclusion) but nobody wants to disclude anything. They only want to exclude it, even though discluding something is excluding it in a very specific way.
N00dz or negz
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/snarky#English
Quote: Beethoven9thWhich casinos?
I haven't been to every casino on the strip, but most (if not all) MGM/Mirage properties have the following games:
DD, 3:2, S17, DOA, DAS, noRSA, noSurrender
6D, 3:2, S17, DOA, DAS, noRSA, late Surrender
Minimums depend on how busy it is and how high-end the casino is, but you will often find the 6D game for a $50 min and the DD game for $100. I've seen the DD as low as $50 and the 6D as low as $25 at slow times. On the other hand, at very busy times (eg, the MGM Grand after a major event) you might not find a game with less than a $300 minimum.
You might have to go to the high limit room to find these games, although they are on the main floor at some casinos.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceMinimums depend on how busy it is and how high-end the casino is, but you will often find the 6D game for a $50 min and the DD game for $100. I've seen the DD as low as $50 and the 6D as low as $25 at slow times. On the other hand, at very busy times (eg, the MGM Grand after a major event) you might not find a game with less than a $300 minimum.
You might have to go to the high limit room to find these games, although they are on the main floor at some casinos.
Gotcha. That makes sense now since I don't really pay attention to BJ in the high limit room. I don't recall seeing any S17 on the main floor of these places, BUT to be fair, I haven't really been looking either. Thx for the into!
Quote: Beethoven9thGotcha. That makes sense now since I don't really pay attention to BJ in the high limit room. I don't recall seeing any S17 on the main floor of these places, BUT to be fair, I haven't really been looking either. Thx for the into!
At the Aria the green chip games are mixed in with the regular games and they are all S17. There is probably also a high limit room somewhere -- I have not played at Aria much.
At the MGM Grand there is the high-limit room (the mansion), the new whiskey bar (Whiskey Down -- I guess you could call it a 2nd high limit room, with a more fun, less stuffy atmosphere, and very hot, scantily clad waitresses), and the "S17 pit", which is out in the open. It's sort of between Whiskey Down and the high limit slot room (past the craps tables from Whiskey Down).
At NYNY it's only in the high limit room (which is small and often quite empty -- a good place to check for a $50 min at DD).
At Mandalay Bay it's only in the high limit room (but, be careful -- they have 2 high limit rooms, but only one with blackjack)
I'm not sure about the other MGM/Mirage casinos. I was not able to find a good game in Bellagio but I may have been looking in the wrong places.
In fear of being "snarky" I will leave this one aloneQuote: beachbumbabsHere is an absolutely true story. My mother, with her two best pals in high school (circa 1949), decided they wanted to invent a word just to see if it would take. They planned to use it in every conceivable instance and hope that someday it would pass into the vernacular. The word was "snarky" and its forms like "snark" and "snarkiness". And it meant then what it means now; roughly sass or sarcasm with a slightly mean twist. But it wasn't really in heavy use until the last 5 years or so, when we started seeing it in places like Time magazine and hearing it from political commentators. And now it's everywhere. Isn't that kind of cool?
Quote: 1BBThere are a few people taking credit for snarky going back to 1906.
You know, I've never looked it up. It's just been a family thing for all this time. I'll take your word for it rather than spoil my mom's fun, if that's the case. We definitely got spanked for being "snarky" when I was a little kid, so when she made that claim, we all believed it (and it may still be true).
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAt the Aria the green chip games are mixed in with the regular games and they are all S17. There is probably also a high limit room somewhere -- I have not played at Aria much.
Thank you, that is great info! *two thumbs up* I occasionally hit Aria, but I'll definitely be going there more often now. Maybe I'll run into aceofspades too. ;)
The problem is up until that point, I had believed everything you ever said, I got suspicious when I hear that "ABSOLUTELY TRUE STORY" Now, I feel like the kid who just found out his father didn't really die a hero. He just went out to get a pack of smokes :(Quote: beachbumbabsYou know, I've never looked it up. It's just been a family thing for all this time. I'll take your word for it rather than spoil my mom's fun, if that's the case. We definitely got spanked for being "snarky" when I was a little kid, so when she made that claim, we all believed it (and it may still be true).
Quote: beachbumbabsHere is an absolutely true story. My mother, with her two best pals in high school (circa 1949), decided they wanted to invent a word just to see if it would take. They planned to use it in every conceivable instance and hope that someday it would pass into the vernacular. The word was "snarky" and its forms like "snark" and "snarkiness". And it meant then what it means now; roughly sass or sarcasm with a slightly mean twist. But it wasn't really in heavy use until the last 5 years or so, when we started seeing it in places like Time magazine and hearing it from political commentators. And now it's everywhere. Isn't that kind of cool?
I do not mean to be contrary or purposely find fault, but you are claiming that your family invented the word snarky? This word was originally British, derived from 19th Century German. Perhaps the real story is that they heard an uncommon word and decided to use it incessantly? No one can actually invent a word (with the exception of Shakespeare, one of the earliest comprehensive writers in recorded history), it would be a neologism, sometimes a sign of a serious neurological or mental condition. If a slang term is extremely popular and commonly used (to the point where it would be very difficult to determine the individual responsible for its first usage), it may be adopted as a word.
Quote: SonuvabishI do not mean to be contrary or purposely find fault, but you are claiming that your family invented the word snarky? This word was originally British, derived from 19th Century German. Perhaps the real story is that they heard an uncommon word and decided to use it incessantly? No one can actually invent a word (with the exception of Shakespeare, one of the earliest comprehensive writers in recorded history), it would be a neologism, sometimes a sign of a serious neurological or mental condition. If a slang term is extremely popular and commonly used (to the point where it would be very difficult to determine the individual responsible for its first usage), it may be adopted as a word.
I don't take you being contrary at all. It was my mother's claim since I was a little kid, and I believed it. When it showed up here tonight, I told the story. Several people looked up the etymology after I said that and have reported it predates my mother's claim. So, while it's still true to her, that's fine with me if it's a story of hers, not the truth. (I do prefer the truth in most things, but my mom is my mom, doncha know....).
The British part would fit; they were English Canadians from Manitoba.
I would disagree with your statement, though, that "no one can invent a word". People do all the time. Whether it becomes part of the vernacular or passes into common usage, that's a different thing; it either gets adopted into use, or it doesn't.
Quote: SonuvabishPerhaps the real story is that they heard an uncommon word and decided to use it incessantly? No one can actually invent a word it would be a neologism, sometimes a sign of a serious neurological or mental condition.
Unless you are attempting to posit that spoken language is inherent, rather than a learned trait, every word we (collectively, as humans) use or have ever used, in every language, was invented at some point.
Quote: beachbumbabsYou know, I've never looked it up. It's just been a family thing for all this time. I'll take your word for it rather than spoil my mom's fun, if that's the case. We definitely got spanked for being "snarky" when I was a little kid, so when she made that claim, we all believed it (and it may still be true).
I've seen this phenomenon before, so don't feel bad. One family had a story that a spunky great aunt* suggested to General Scott to try the "Anaconda Plan" at a dinner party, giving him the idea [it had never occured to him, you see]. It was a cherished story within the family; a youngster of that family talked about it all the time in an internet Civil War discussion group. Nobody had the heart to tell him any different.
*great great great or somesuch down the line no doubt
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIn northern California, a large casino (with tens of blackjack tables) recently converted every single game to 3:2 S17 (including their single-deck games). This is an Indian casino, so no commission on the hands either -- it's regular blackjack. They sometimes have limits as low as $5, so it's not just for the high-limit games.
If a single-deck game is 3:2 S17, that would be an off-the-top player edge! (Assuming there aren't any other bad rules stuck in there.)
Quote: AxelWolfThe problem is up until that point, I had believed everything you ever said, I got suspicious when I hear that "ABSOLUTELY TRUE STORY" Now, I feel like the kid who just found out his father didn't really die a hero. He just went out to get a pack of smokes :(
lol...I feel a little bit like that, too, Axel. It's been an absolutely true story for me for about 50 years. But I'm going to let Mom keep telling the story, because it's part of who she is.
Quote: Mission146Unless you are attempting to posit that spoken language is inherent, rather than a learned trait, every word we (collectively, as humans) use or have ever used, in every language, was invented at some point.
I am basically saying that sometimes when we really do not have a word for something, a renowned writer will invent one. The origins of other words are impossible to trace to an individual. A word that I could make up is gibberish or slang. That's just my take, I acknowledge there are other legitimate points of view.
