RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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February 19th, 2013 at 5:28:27 AM permalink
For those of you who know me on this site, I am sure you are thinking I have posted in the wrong section. RaleighCraps posting something on Blackjack???

As a rule, I almost never play Blackjack. The game just beats me up something fierce. I have been playing the BJ trainers whose links have been posted in this forum, and my BS play is pretty good. I have never really studied it, but I am consistently scoring over 90% correct plays, even when playing the hard version. I tend toward the aggressive side, taking double downs at most any decent opportunity. Some would be considered aggressive play, while a couple are probably bad plays.

Since Cherokee does not have Pai Gow Poker for me to kill time on, I opted for BJ. $10 table, not sure but I think it was 8 decks. split up to 4x, no surrender, 3:2 BJ. Not sure about DAS. I was playing at 3rd base and playing solid BS, other than I hit my 14 vs a dealer 2 card. I think that is the wrong play, but not sure. It was the wrong play that time, as I busted with a 10, which would have busted the dealer. A second ten saved me from any table wrath ;-)

The following play came up, and thanks to this site, and all of the stories, I was able to make an advantage play.
Newish player is in the 3 slot, and is being coached by first base. Not sure if they knew each other or not. This player needs coaxing to double against a dealer 5 or 6, and is occasionally inclined to take hits when he should stand, but usually plays the cards correctly.
Dealer has a 6 showing, player has $15 bet and gets 6-6. First base convinces him to split. He gets a 6. He splits again. Next card is a 6. First base is telling him to split, but he says "No, I have too much out there now". Thanks to this site, I jump in and say, "I'll take the action on your split if you want." He says sure, and I give him $15. I had the last hand to be played. He got another 6 on one of the hands, which he was not allowed to split since he had 4 already. I don't recall how he played the hands. I know he wanted to hit the 12, but I think first base talked him out of that. My hand got an 8 for 14, and he looked to me to make a call. I said it's your hand to play, but I would stay against the dealer 6, so that was what he did. Dealer busted, I got paid $40 on my hand, and got another $15 profit from the hand I bought from the 3 slot.

Now I have called this an Advantage Play, but was it? Is buying a 6 against a dealer 6 really an AP ?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:20:10 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:38:11 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If the play has a positive expectation, then yes. This is what we call "scavenger blackjack."



I see my question was ambiguous. What I was trying to ask was, "Is it a correct play to buy another player's 6, against a dealer's 6 up card?"

I believe the answer is, it is the correct play to BUY ANY hand against a Dealer's 6 up card.

Is this the correct play, and, would the same hold true for a dealer's 5 up card ?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:38:27 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If the play has a positive expectation, then yes. This is what we call "scavenger blackjack."



Does it have a positive expectation, or just a less negative expectation? Sure, 6 v 6 is better than 12 v 6. But is it actually positive?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:41:31 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Does it have a positive expectation, or just a less negative expectation? Sure, 6 v 6 is better than 12 v 6. But is it actually positive?



My thinking was that I am getting to make a bet, knowing the dealer has a 6 as the up card. My thought is that alone, makes it an advantage for me to try and get as much money as I can into play, regardless of what card I would need to buy.
Hopefully one of the pros here can tell me if I am right or wrong.

edit: I do not count, so I have no idea what the deck looked like at this point.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:42:30 AM permalink
Yes! That's an advantage play.

Here are the details for 6,6 vs 6 from Wizard of Odds for 8 decks and S17:


Dealer Player Stand Hit Double Split Split
DAS-No DAS-Yes
6 6,6 -0.154424 -0.172989 -0.345978 -0.002346 0.157466


[Edit] So, I believe your EV was 0.157466($15)/2 = $1.18 for an 8-deck S17 DAS game.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:45:52 AM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Yes! That's an advantage play.

Here are the details for 6,6 vs 6 from Wizard of Odds for 8 decks and S17:


Dealer Player Stand Hit Double Split Split
DAS-No DAS-Yes
6 6,6 -0.154424 -0.172989 -0.345978 -0.002346 0.157466


So, your EV was 0.157466($15) = $2.36 for an 8-deck, S17, and DAS game.



Isn't that how you would calculate the play if I had made the original bet?

In this case, I have no money in play.
I get to see the dealer's up card is a 6.
I then get a chance to buy into a hand where I have a 6 to start.
What is my EV to take this action ?

I think it would be different than what is stated in the table, wouldn't it?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:47:13 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:51:51 AM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

...
Isn't that how you would calculate the play if I had made the original bet?

In this case, I have no money in play.
I get to see the dealer's up card is a 6.
I then get a chance to buy into a hand where I have a 6 to start.
What is my EV to take this action ?

I think it would be different than what is stated in the table, wouldn't it?



I see your point. The value of 0.157466 would be for the original hand and might include the possibility of splitting to 4 hands. Also, since you get only one of the split hands, I believe your EV would be a little less than 0.5(0.157466) or 0.078733, which is still a good advantage play for you.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 19th, 2013 at 6:56:46 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

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