What do you do? Confrontation or no?
December 20th, 2012 at 10:31:42 PM
permalink
I was at a very small casino in Puerto Rico recently with my girlfriend. Literally, there was one $5 blackjack table. She had NEVER played BJ before. NEVER. But she watched me play one night and wanted to try it. So, I went through the main points of basic strategy with her and we practiced with a deck of cards until she got the overall idea. Finally, we go to the casino and she takes the only open seat--3rd base. She's flat betting $5. She was making the correct decision the vast majority of the time, and I was reminding her of what to do whenever she looked confused or it was an unusual spot. Still, it must have been clear to the table that she hadn't played blackjack before. After 10 minutes or so, she was up about $20 and having a FANTASTIC TIME. Then guy at first base puts down a bet of about $90. I forget what he gets, but he doesn't bust. She gets a 12 against a dealer 3 and hits. You see where this story is going--she busts, dealer makes a hand that otherwise would have busted had she stood, and guy at first base loses $90. At this point, guy at first base starts talking--LOUDLY--to his friend next to him. He's talking in Spanish, but I know enough Spanish (and enough about idiotic blackjack players) to get the idea of what he's saying, and it's not good. But he's not content to let it go at one or two comments. Guy at first base doesn't stop, and continues berating her loudly. This goes on for about 10 minutes, during which time he's slamming his bets down as he's talking. Finally, he calls someone up on his cell phone and tells them how much of an idiot she is (among other things). All of the dealers/pit boss and most of the players speak Spanish and say nothing. She doesn't know a word of Spanish and just thinks the guy is upset at losing generally. She has no idea what he's saying, and she doesn't know enough about blackjack to realize that some players get upset at others in situations like that. What would you do? Here's the dilemma: (1) she has no idea he's mad at her, (2) I'm pretty sure the guy spoke English, but saying something to him would ruin her good mood because then she'd realize he's talking about her, (3) saying something to him may escalate a fight/be unproductive anyway. I thought about trying to say something to him in Spanish, but my speaking skills are dwarfed by my listening comprehension, which is decent but not great, so anything I said would sound pretty silly. Moreover, there are no other tables to move to. Dealer, of course, says nothing. What do you do?
December 20th, 2012 at 10:48:04 PM
permalink
Quote: GambleSometimesI was at a very small casino in Puerto Rico recently with my girlfriend... What do you do?
Everyone plays their hand as they see fit - with apologies to no one!
Your girlfriend made the right play.
The clown gave himself the punishment he deserved.
I have played many times in Puerto Rico (San Juan and Arecibo), and in Costa Rica (both in San Jose and Playa Jaco), and I am constantly amazed how some clown on the game acts like Pablo Escobar to yell at someone at Third base if the dealer doesn't bust.
YOU PLAY YOUR HAND AS YOU SEE FIT, WITH APOLOGIES TO NO ONE IF THEY LOSE. AS A DEALER, I HAD TO TELL THIS TO EVERYONE FROM TIME TO TIME, FROM DICE TO BLACKJACK TO SETTING HANDS IN PAI GOW POKER.
You openly tell them:
1. I mind my own hand, and you mind your own had.
2. You play your hand as you see fit, as do I.
3. My money on my hand = MY call. Thank you for your opinion. I'm glad you lost. (I've actually said that. A Ruger. 380 may help, but do not show it unless absolutely necessary.)
Quote: Gamble SometimesDealer, of course, says nothing. What do you do?
As a dealer, I have always enforced this boundary. I do not know HOW many times I said - "you, Sir - no to that! Everyone plays their hands as they do when their own money is on the line - just like YOU. You Lose? It's on you. Let me call the floorman over to explain this TO YOU." (IF needed.)
You Play YOUR hand as you see fit; Apologize to no one - Basic Strategy or not.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:51:55 PM
permalink
You do nothing. You are not in the US. When outside the US my policy is avoid confrontation at all times. If this happened here In the US I may have laughed in his face. However the casinos are full of crazies and idiots these days.This same scenario I have seen play out over and over. You can't talk sense to these types its best to let it go its gonna happen again & again. Find comfort in the fact that this guy plays like a chump but thinks he is a champ.
December 20th, 2012 at 10:54:55 PM
permalink
Quote: rainmanYou do nothing. You are not in the US. When outside the US my policy is avoid confrontation at all times. If this happened here In the US I may have laughed in his face. However the casinos are full of crazies and idiots these days.This same scenario I have seen play out over and over. You can't talk sense to these types its best to let it go its gonna happen again & again. Find comfort in the fact that this guy plays like a chump but thinks he is a champ.
Puerto Rico IS in the United States. They vote for U.S. presidents, and their leader is a Governor, - not a President.
you can say the same thing about playing in North Las Vegas, or in Detroit!
Once a casino or gambling hall LOSES CONTROL OF ITS LIVE TABLE GAMES - and it doesn't matter where the hell in the world it is - it has lost control of its table games, and should not be in business, as subject to the laws and gaming control boards.
I will add:
I have never played in Somalia, or in DR.
There are clean games in Cambodia and Coulmbia, including the Rockerfeller casino.
If you're afraid inside of a casino because you've bet your money and played your cards as you've seen fit and had a right to, you can bring this up with the casino manager - and on the Internet at a place like this.
Mike Shackleford and his forums have a world-wide review presence.
NO ONE should ever be in such a position at a casino, and word gets around quickly - IF you post it!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:05:28 PM
permalink
Quote: PaigowdanPuerto Rico IS in the United States. They vote for U.S. presidents, and their leader is a Governor, - not a President.
you can say the same thing about playing in North Las Vegas, or in Detroit!
Once a casino or gambling hall LOSES CONTROL OF ITS LIVE TABLE GAMES - and it doesn't matter where in the world it is - it has lost control of its table games and should not be in business, as subject to the laws and gaming control boards.
I will add:
I have never played in Somalia, or in DR.
No its outside the United States but is a territory of the United states. And getting into a confrontation or legal trouble there is a whole lot different than here. You could possibly find yourself buried without a head in the jungle.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:13:03 PM
permalink
Quote: rainmanNo its outside the United States but is a territory of the United states. And getting into a confrontation or legal trouble there is a whole lot different than here. You could possibly find yourself buried without a head in the jungle.
Just like in Las Vegas. But here, you're buried in the desert.
In Detroit, - in a dumspter.
I will say this:
To put aside all arguments about safety and "jurisdiction"
1. Posting "Gambling and Safety" report is well-advised, to be done on the Internet.
2. A LOT of U.S. Gambling dollars is reviewed through the Prism of THIS gambling site alone.
A poor Safety Report on the WizardOfVegas might mean more money for Atlantic City, Costa rica, Macau, and Las Vegas - and less where there are problem reports.
I can personally tell you I have had no problems gambling in Puerto Rico (Condado Island and in Arecibo), and none in Playa Jaco, Costa Rica thought I did have some in San Jose, Costa Rica.
If you are not safe at a casino - or ARE safe at a casino - you can say so here.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 20th, 2012 at 11:23:24 PM
permalink
I'm not worried about gambling outside the US I'm worried about confrontations with strangers outside the US. (Stranger in a strange land.) :)
December 20th, 2012 at 11:28:08 PM
permalink
deleted
Last edited by: sodawater on Oct 1, 2018
December 20th, 2012 at 11:52:45 PM
permalink
Quote: PaigowdanPuerto Rico IS in the United States. They vote for U.S. presidents, and their leader is a Governor, - not a President.
Point of order - Puerto Rico is a US territory, yes, but they don't get to vote for US president. (ref)
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
December 21st, 2012 at 12:19:52 AM
permalink
Quote: rainmanI'm not worried about gambling outside the US I'm worried about confrontations with strangers outside the US. (Stranger in a strange land.) :)
I don't play outside the US, but I still avoid confrontations with strangers. There is nothing to be gained from a confrontation. I play 80-100 thousand rounds of blackjack a year, so I can assure you that I make plays that other players don't approve of. lol Especially when the deck is rich and I start deviating from BS. I used to get all defensive, especially concerning basic strategy plays, but even that is a bad idea. If you fire back, telling someone I hit my 12 vs 3 because 'the book' says to, it just tells the casino that you know a little something about this game. I have been told by several pit friends that basic strategy players get a different rating than bad players resulting in less comps etc, so even that is not beneficial.
Of course the real negative is that many times you are dealing with gambling addicts, and always remember the implications of that word. These people are often wagering money they can't afford. They are desperate and often unstable. I don't need some sick degenerate, and we were reminder once again just last week how sick some people are, blaming me for his gambling problem and confronting me outside the casino. Maybe that sounds passive, but I usually have a pretty decent amount of funds on me at all times and just don't need the hassle.
So when someone tells me how wrong it was to hit my 12 vs the dealer 3, I just say "yeah, your probably right". But if the situation arises again, I just hit it again. No need for me to prove to this person or the floor, just how much I know. I get enough satisfaction out of knowing that I am making my rent, why the person telling me what to do is losing his. :)
December 21st, 2012 at 12:26:45 AM
permalink
Quote: AcesAndEightsPoint of order - Puerto Rico is a US territory, yes, but they don't get to vote for US president. (ref)
They aren't allowed to vote in the presidential election but they are allowed to vote in the primary and decide who is going to be running for president. lol That makes a lot of sense.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:32:07 AM
permalink
You shouldn't have to have a confrontation for hitting a 12 against a 2 or 3, or a 16 against a 7.
Or for hitting a hard 18 against a dealer's 5, if you see fit.
Ever.
Usually you can honestly say: "It's bad enough you play your own hand as you do, and yet I say nothing. Now, do I tell you how to play your own hand?"
Or for hitting a hard 18 against a dealer's 5, if you see fit.
Ever.
Usually you can honestly say: "It's bad enough you play your own hand as you do, and yet I say nothing. Now, do I tell you how to play your own hand?"
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 21st, 2012 at 12:47:23 AM
permalink
Quote: PaigowdanYou shouldn't have to have a confrontation for hitting a 12 against a 2 or 3, or a 16 against a 7.
Or for hitting a hard 18 against a dealer's 5, if you see fit.
Ever.
Usually you can honestly say: "It's bad enough you play your own and lose. Do I tell you how to play your own hand?"
I don't need the hassle of it. I am disciplined enough that it just doesn't matter to me. And yes, Dan, YOU with all the time you have put at the table should know, logic and common sense have nothing to do with it. If a player loses they will blame you, no matter what you do. Doubling down your 10 vs the dealer 6 is the wrong move if it causes them to lose. lol
Quote: Paigowdan
My money on my hand = MY call. Thank you for your opinion. I'm glad you lost. (I've actually said that. A Ruger. 380 may help, but do not show it unless absolutely necessary.)
Not sure of your sense of humor, Dan. I hope you say this tongue in cheek. First of all, if you are carrying a weapon to use as an intimidation tactic, it just makes you a bully. This is also just bad advice. You don't show your weapon until you are prepared to use it. If you show your weapon early, it alerts your opponent that you have it. You lose that edge. When things do escalate to that point, knowing you are armed, their first move with be to shoot you.
December 21st, 2012 at 1:47:15 AM
permalink
Quote: kewljI don't need the hassle of it. I am disciplined enough that it just doesn't matter to me. And yes, Dan, YOU with all the time you have put at the table should know, logic and common sense have nothing to do with it. If a player loses they will blame you, no matter what you do. Doubling down your 10 vs the dealer 6 is the wrong move if it causes them to lose. lol
Quote: Paigowdan
My money on my hand = MY call. Thank you for your opinion. I'm glad you lost. (I've actually said that. A Ruger. 380 may help, but do not show it unless absolutely necessary.)
Not sure of your sense of humor, Dan. I hope you say this tongue in cheek. First of all, if you are carrying a weapon to use as an intimidation tactic, it just makes you a bully. This is also just bad advice. You don't show your weapon until you are prepared to use it. If you show your weapon early, it alerts your opponent that you have it. You lose that edge. When things do escalate to that point, knowing you are armed, their first move with be to shoot you.
Part of it is a sense of humor, because a thousand and one BJ players may go into a false Joe pesci mode when steaming losses or because of other problems, usually handled by security, and it's a part of a sad show. And for what, playing your hand as you see fit, a 12 against a 3? If he calms down, fine with him and the game. But If you are later approached by a big guy in the parking lot, who has a inappropriate resentment, you may need to defend yourself, similar to the risk of any parking-lot type robberies that occur, also.
What do shot-takers seriously expect to hear back at tables from people, who are minding their own business, and playing their games fine, not looking for flak from anyone else, aside from seeing if they win or lose their own hand? I consider casinos to be safe inside the house, with a handfull of people there who are sometimes sweating some hard money, or tripping out or any reason; many times it is wise to ask for a security escort, or to even have a concealed firearm, once alone in the parking lot. The guys who were problems at the tables were photographed by surveillance, but they still may be a robbery threat or a retaliatory threat when you are walking to your car. 99% of the time this dos not occur, but 1% of the tame it may, and there may be a risk.
Some of the rougher casino have this as a minor issue, and it should be tightly address.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:24:14 AM
permalink
It doesnt matter what country or what casino you are in... you're not there to get into a fight. Say nothing. Leave, even if there isn't another table to go to. What's more important?
December 21st, 2012 at 3:17:53 AM
permalink
There's always callate! or cierra la boca! and much worse if you want to escalate things. I don't advise it. The advice here has been excellent up until the Ruger although who hasn't thought about it? These punks don't deserve the time of day but unfortunately they are part of the game. They always have been, always will be and are to be ignored.
I know of one very large casino that has a strict no firearms policy. Anyone caught carrying will be asked to leave and may be subject to a records check by the State Police.
I hope you didn't tell your girlfriend what was going on. She was having a fantastic time and I see absolutely no need to put a damper on it.
I know of one very large casino that has a strict no firearms policy. Anyone caught carrying will be asked to leave and may be subject to a records check by the State Police.
I hope you didn't tell your girlfriend what was going on. She was having a fantastic time and I see absolutely no need to put a damper on it.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
December 21st, 2012 at 5:41:29 AM
permalink
Since you believed that he was talking in Spanish so you wouldn't understand him, I'd ignore it.
If he was talking in English, I'd simpy say, "The cards could have been shuffled one card differently. And besides, she did the correct play according to 'The Book'."
If he gives you any shit about 'The Book', tell him you know the author, and then hand him a business card.
(On second thought, don't hand him a business card. The simplified strategy on the back suggests standing on that hand.)
If he was talking in English, I'd simpy say, "The cards could have been shuffled one card differently. And besides, she did the correct play according to 'The Book'."
If he gives you any shit about 'The Book', tell him you know the author, and then hand him a business card.
(On second thought, don't hand him a business card. The simplified strategy on the back suggests standing on that hand.)
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 21st, 2012 at 5:50:22 AM
permalink
Easy one for me. Say nothing to girlfriend at the table. But at a later date, before you go to play again, let her know about the possible attitudes of other players, so if it were coming at her in English she would be prepared for it.
December 21st, 2012 at 5:56:41 AM
permalink
I agree with SOOPOO.
December 21st, 2012 at 6:43:06 AM
permalink
No need to escalate, particularly with cultural or language barriers wherein escalation can get out of hand real fast.
Let her enjoy the game. Maybe she didn't even notice the jerk's behavior at all, only you did. If so, ignore it.
Let her enjoy the game. Maybe she didn't even notice the jerk's behavior at all, only you did. If so, ignore it.
December 21st, 2012 at 9:11:29 AM
permalink
One trick that I've utilized to justify a "wrong" move is noting the rounds that come afterwards. Say for instance you win the next 3 bets and maybe the rest of the table does too.
Just comment that "Seems like we won the last 3 consecutive hands, wonder what how it would've went had I NOT hit that 12?"
If the rounds were beneficial to all, including yourself, then they'll quickly clam up and let it go. Realizing that it was in fact the right move, just not that particular hand, but helped you get a few consecutive wins to pull ahead.
I recently had a scenario where I hit 12 vs a 2, and pulled an 8. At first, it looked great. Until the dealer turned up a 4, caught a 10 and then a 5! Sure enough someone had to jump and say "See, he woulda busted if you just stayed!" Interestingly enough, after that bad beat, the entire table won the next Seven consecutive hands to end the shoe and I delivered the line "Just for the record, we haven't lost a hand since I hit that 12. But I guess you knew that already!"
Of course, if it doesn't result in 3-7 winning hands, then you can't use the line! But it's always good to keep handy.
Just comment that "Seems like we won the last 3 consecutive hands, wonder what how it would've went had I NOT hit that 12?"
If the rounds were beneficial to all, including yourself, then they'll quickly clam up and let it go. Realizing that it was in fact the right move, just not that particular hand, but helped you get a few consecutive wins to pull ahead.
I recently had a scenario where I hit 12 vs a 2, and pulled an 8. At first, it looked great. Until the dealer turned up a 4, caught a 10 and then a 5! Sure enough someone had to jump and say "See, he woulda busted if you just stayed!" Interestingly enough, after that bad beat, the entire table won the next Seven consecutive hands to end the shoe and I delivered the line "Just for the record, we haven't lost a hand since I hit that 12. But I guess you knew that already!"
Of course, if it doesn't result in 3-7 winning hands, then you can't use the line! But it's always good to keep handy.
December 21st, 2012 at 9:18:23 AM
permalink
One can never really be sure what you would do in that position. My guess is that I would lean out over the table and silently
mouth F*** YOU. Several times if need be. From there it would be up to first base. One thing for sure, we are not going outside.
If I have to pop him one, it will be right there, with my fist full of chips.
mouth F*** YOU. Several times if need be. From there it would be up to first base. One thing for sure, we are not going outside.
If I have to pop him one, it will be right there, with my fist full of chips.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
December 21st, 2012 at 9:49:46 AM
permalink
Quote: Buzzard
If I have to pop him one, it will be right there, with my fist full of chips.
That's a smart move. An hour later YOU will be the one sitting in jail. And if it's a weekend, here in Clark County, you will be there til Monday, so you will have plenty of time to enjoy the satisfaction this provided you. Of course, you can claim whatever defense you like, but it will all be irrelevent as there be a nice video to document the event. This would be a particularly good move for those of us that play mid level black stakes and carry 5 figures. We would get to check out funds at the Clark County Detention Center. I am sure those funds wouldn't shrink or get lost or anything. That type of thing NEVER happens in Clark County. lol I think I'll just stick to using my brain instead of my fist. :)
December 21st, 2012 at 10:25:22 AM
permalink
Obviously, you're in foreign lands and not at your home casino, and you don't know who you are dealing with. So any kind of confrontation except feigning ignorance is the best thing to do. In fact, I'd cash out and go to another table.
When the player starts yelling at you and making you uncomfortable, you get out of the situation and you explain to your girlfriend exactly what is going on.
When the player starts yelling at you and making you uncomfortable, you get out of the situation and you explain to your girlfriend exactly what is going on.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
December 21st, 2012 at 10:53:32 AM
permalink
Quote: PaigowdanPuerto Rico IS in the United States. They vote for U.S. presidents
As as been mentioned, they do not get to vote for US presidents. Nevertheless, if forced to a yes or no answer about whether PR is part of the United States, the answer is yes.
If this were in the 50 states I would not just ignore this other player. In another thread somebody told a similar story, about challenging the other player to a bet on what the basic strategy said was the right play. However, here you are in a place that at least feels like a foreign country and there is the langauge issue. If I had a cell phone with me I would pretend to make a call and in English talk about the idiot at first base.
A lesson to be learned from that to avoid the problem to begin with, sit in an early position.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
December 21st, 2012 at 11:00:10 AM
permalink
Quote: WizardAs as been mentioned, they do not get to vote for US presidents. Nevertheless, if forced to a yes or no answer about whether PR is part of the United States, the answer is yes.
If this were in the 50 states I would not just ignore this other player. In another thread somebody told a similar story, about challenging the other player to a bet on what the basic strategy said was the right play. However, here you are in a place that at least feels like a foreign country and there is the langauge issue. If I had a cell phone with me I would pretend to make a call and in English talk about the idiot at first base.
A lesson to be learned from that to avoid the problem to begin with, sit in an early position.
I think we are answering the wrong question about Puerto Rico though. Whether they are a state or not is sort of irrelevant. What we need to know, does their judicial system operate the same way as the US? After all, this is where this confrontation is going to end up at some point. And as the foreigner, you are not going to be given much benefit of the doubt from the local police. Do they answer at all to any of the judicial bodies in the US? If not, then there absolutely is no choice but to avoid any confrontation whatsoever.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
December 21st, 2012 at 11:23:29 AM
permalink
Quote: rainmanYou do nothing. You are not in the US. When outside the US my policy is avoid confrontation at all times. .
Whenever you're outside the US, and PR is not the US,
always assume they hate your guts because you're an
American and keep your cool at all times. There is
nothing more many places like than to bust some loud
mouthed American on anything they can. Just nod and
smile and say thank you sir, may I have another...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
December 21st, 2012 at 11:53:12 AM
permalink
You can probably get away with a confrontation in Canada as well, including Quebec.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
December 21st, 2012 at 1:42:47 PM
permalink
" That's a smart move. An hour later YOU will be the one sitting in jail."
Not recommending anyone do that. Just admitting what I might do. A lot would depend on his response to my FU.
As for a night in jail, been there, done that. LOL Hell, if I play my cards right, he might be the one charged with elderly
abuse. LOL Violence is not a proper response to a verbal FU.
Not recommending anyone do that. Just admitting what I might do. A lot would depend on his response to my FU.
As for a night in jail, been there, done that. LOL Hell, if I play my cards right, he might be the one charged with elderly
abuse. LOL Violence is not a proper response to a verbal FU.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
December 21st, 2012 at 2:12:15 PM
permalink
What is mostly missing from all this is any sort of pressure on the casino/casino operator - in any locale at all, - to maintain both safety and decorum.
I've seen many players get told "You're here to play, NOT to harass other players. If you not clear on that, then you will have to leave."
Not enough places establish this VERY fundamental ground rule. We're not talking about patronizing a high-roller with a private table. You're at a table, then you play your hand, and no one else's. NOT a hard concept once explained.
First of all, players have a right to play their hands as they see fit without lip from any other player. If you're there to play - fine.
Secondly, anyone has the right to defend himself from this kind of crap, and the casino should be put on notice if the casino fails to address it.
I've seen the same high rollers who were obliged with comps and other benefits - get quickly put on notice once they start getting into other players' business and hand play, being told: "Your money and game knowledge isn't better than anyone else's. If you can't mind your own P's and Q's, then go to the cage and leave."
I've seen many players get told "You're here to play, NOT to harass other players. If you not clear on that, then you will have to leave."
Not enough places establish this VERY fundamental ground rule. We're not talking about patronizing a high-roller with a private table. You're at a table, then you play your hand, and no one else's. NOT a hard concept once explained.
First of all, players have a right to play their hands as they see fit without lip from any other player. If you're there to play - fine.
Secondly, anyone has the right to defend himself from this kind of crap, and the casino should be put on notice if the casino fails to address it.
I've seen the same high rollers who were obliged with comps and other benefits - get quickly put on notice once they start getting into other players' business and hand play, being told: "Your money and game knowledge isn't better than anyone else's. If you can't mind your own P's and Q's, then go to the cage and leave."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:18:34 PM
permalink
Unless the verbal FU comes from an out-of-town Gringo and the trial is conducted in Spanish. I understand your sentiments as far as Las Vegas but in a foreign country (let's not debate just how foreign) with a young woman you want to be able to protect, you don't do verbal FU's unless able to accompany them with one-arm curls to lift a nearby piano.Quote: BuzzardViolence is not a proper response to a verbal FU.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:22:25 PM
permalink
Quote: RaleighCrapsI think we are answering the wrong question about Puerto Rico though. Whether they are a state or not is sort of irrelevant. What we need to know, does their judicial system operate the same way as the US? After all, this is where this confrontation is going to end up at some point. And as the foreigner, you are not going to be given much benefit of the doubt from the local police. Do they answer at all to any of the judicial bodies in the US? If not, then there absolutely is no choice but to avoid any confrontation whatsoever.
One would think that (aside from laws and local police, etc.) that security and decorum problems at a casino, particularly if documented and discussed at major gaming forums, would be a huge deterrent alone for the casino to allow this crap to happen.
EVERY Blackjack dealer and floorman should be able to quickly say: "The gentleman/lady at third base has just as much right to play her hand - as you did your hand." The fact that ANY player has to say this - is a problem.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:26:44 PM
permalink
Flea , I am dumb, not stupid. In the 60's, when I would go to Nueva Laredo, I would give a kid $1 to watch my car. And the local cop on the block $10 right away. You know, just in case. LOL
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
December 21st, 2012 at 2:27:53 PM
permalink
Quote: FleaStiffUnless the verbal FU comes from an out-of-town Gringo and the trial is conducted in Spanish. I understand your sentiments as far as Las Vegas but in a foreign country (let's not debate just how foreign) with a young woman you want to be able to protect, you don't do verbal FU's unless able to accompany them with one-arm curls to lift a nearby piano.
1. How is saying "I played my hand as I see fit, just as you did with yours" an F.U.?
2. How much "out-of-town Gringo" money do these resort casinos want to lose? How much bad press? How hard is it for a floorman or pit boss to say "everyone plays their own hand?" or: "If he didn't tell you how to play your hand, then why do you tell him? Do you KNOW the next card coming out of the shoe? (no.)"
And if I went to a place when I had to pay bribes and extortion fees to have my car not stolen, or to be reasonably safe, I'd feel both dumb and stupid. And I'd let a LOT of people know "you may wish to go elsewhere."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
December 21st, 2012 at 2:48:44 PM
permalink
I've really been in one situation where somebody really got me upset, and I found out what I would do. I basically keep my mouth shut and do my best not to let them affect me.
I am a very loud and vocal player when I am having fun. If anything bad happens and somebody gets upset about me or a play I do or anything that I say, I generally get very quiet and just wait.
If I do anything to piss them off, it would be how I play.
I am not a blackjack player, but if I were, and I were betting $50 hands on a $5 table, I would probably go down to $5 and just do really stupid stuff HOPING that it fucked up the other guy instead of worrying that it helped me and just make the point I CAN PLAY HOWEVER I GODDAMN WELL PLEASE.
When Teddy and I were at El Cortez, some dude was losing big money behind the numbers I was hitting. I made my point with $5 on the line and no odds, and I did my routine "WHOOO HOOO FIVE DOLLARS YEAH!!!!" Everybody laughed and it was funny. The guy who was losing behind then went on the passline with a couple hundred and did a max odds $2000 odds bet (I don't remember, it may have even been MORE but not less). When he did that I said something polite along the lines of "yeah, go for it!"
Then he lit into me saying, "you know I'm embarrassed for you guy. I'm poor too."
The way that he said it, frankly, well, it hurt my feelings in a weird sort of way. I mean I think what he said was meant to be hurtful, and it totally brought me down from being happy. All I wanted to do was win this guy some money and he says that.
So what did I did? I ***PASSED THE GODDAMNED DICE*** and the next shooter sevened out. I didn't have to say jack shit. He left without a word.
FUCK THAT GUY.
But yeah, that dude ruined the rest of the night for me, and all I wanted to do was have a good time and hopefully win him some money.
Anyway, anybody who has problems like that absolutely has a regular routine of hating on themselves and others.
The best thing to do is to try your best not to let their negative vibes affect you. And I suggest DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL. You can wish harm on them, but don't say anything. And remove yourself, and go to another casino, or whatever you have to do.
I wish I could have just forgotten about that whole situation I was in too, but it did bug me because he made me feel like I was doing something wrong.
Everybody there was loving my behavior before he let his being a loser interfere with me having a good time.
I have lost more than that and more quickly, and when I was done, I WAS SMILING because I knew I could lose, and IT DIDN'T BOTHER ME because I DO NOT HAVE A GAMBLING PROBLEM AND I NEVER RISK MORE THAN I CAN AFFORD TO LOSE.
It is people who have gambling problems that usually do this type of thing. They are not responsible for their own behavior. But don't let them make you feel bad, just GET AWAY FROM THEM AS FAST AS YOU CAN and go somewhere else to have fun.
That is my two cents.
Alright, sorry for getting emotional, but I felt like I would try to contribute.
I am a very loud and vocal player when I am having fun. If anything bad happens and somebody gets upset about me or a play I do or anything that I say, I generally get very quiet and just wait.
If I do anything to piss them off, it would be how I play.
I am not a blackjack player, but if I were, and I were betting $50 hands on a $5 table, I would probably go down to $5 and just do really stupid stuff HOPING that it fucked up the other guy instead of worrying that it helped me and just make the point I CAN PLAY HOWEVER I GODDAMN WELL PLEASE.
When Teddy and I were at El Cortez, some dude was losing big money behind the numbers I was hitting. I made my point with $5 on the line and no odds, and I did my routine "WHOOO HOOO FIVE DOLLARS YEAH!!!!" Everybody laughed and it was funny. The guy who was losing behind then went on the passline with a couple hundred and did a max odds $2000 odds bet (I don't remember, it may have even been MORE but not less). When he did that I said something polite along the lines of "yeah, go for it!"
Then he lit into me saying, "you know I'm embarrassed for you guy. I'm poor too."
The way that he said it, frankly, well, it hurt my feelings in a weird sort of way. I mean I think what he said was meant to be hurtful, and it totally brought me down from being happy. All I wanted to do was win this guy some money and he says that.
So what did I did? I ***PASSED THE GODDAMNED DICE*** and the next shooter sevened out. I didn't have to say jack shit. He left without a word.
FUCK THAT GUY.
But yeah, that dude ruined the rest of the night for me, and all I wanted to do was have a good time and hopefully win him some money.
Anyway, anybody who has problems like that absolutely has a regular routine of hating on themselves and others.
The best thing to do is to try your best not to let their negative vibes affect you. And I suggest DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL. You can wish harm on them, but don't say anything. And remove yourself, and go to another casino, or whatever you have to do.
I wish I could have just forgotten about that whole situation I was in too, but it did bug me because he made me feel like I was doing something wrong.
Everybody there was loving my behavior before he let his being a loser interfere with me having a good time.
I have lost more than that and more quickly, and when I was done, I WAS SMILING because I knew I could lose, and IT DIDN'T BOTHER ME because I DO NOT HAVE A GAMBLING PROBLEM AND I NEVER RISK MORE THAN I CAN AFFORD TO LOSE.
It is people who have gambling problems that usually do this type of thing. They are not responsible for their own behavior. But don't let them make you feel bad, just GET AWAY FROM THEM AS FAST AS YOU CAN and go somewhere else to have fun.
That is my two cents.
Alright, sorry for getting emotional, but I felt like I would try to contribute.
aahigh.com
December 21st, 2012 at 5:26:27 PM
permalink
" Alright, sorry for getting emotional, but I felt like I would try to contribute. "
The only power people have over you is the power you give them.
The only power people have over you is the power you give them.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
December 22nd, 2012 at 6:12:56 PM
permalink
Some good thoughts and some "interesting" thoughts. In the end, I just let it go since she had no idea he was upset at her and I didn't want to ruin her good mood.
Also, I thought it was relevant that he didn't say anything directly to her--if he did, then at that point, a (verbal) response would be necessary. Besides, it kind of amused me to see just how upset he was. Usually when someone is a jerk to you, nothing bad is happening to him. In this case, he was a jerk AND losing money. So that was kind of nice. In the end, he got felted, stormed off, and the world went on.
Also, I thought it was relevant that he didn't say anything directly to her--if he did, then at that point, a (verbal) response would be necessary. Besides, it kind of amused me to see just how upset he was. Usually when someone is a jerk to you, nothing bad is happening to him. In this case, he was a jerk AND losing money. So that was kind of nice. In the end, he got felted, stormed off, and the world went on.
December 22nd, 2012 at 6:27:36 PM
permalink
Sheeze, is this what happens when you ask a question of a bunch of know-it-alls? Now I'm going to have to hold off on asking why some dorks call a Christmas tree a "holiday" tree!
December 23rd, 2012 at 2:32:21 AM
permalink
Quote: iluvdisco33Sheeze, is this what happens when you ask a question of a bunch of know-it-alls? Now I'm going to have to hold off on asking why some dorks call a Christmas tree a "holiday" tree
December 23rd, 2012 at 3:19:16 AM
permalink
Quote: 1BBHow about starting a thread about disco?
Over at DT where we won't have to see it.
December 23rd, 2012 at 4:15:03 AM
permalink
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyOver at DT where we won't have to see it.
Absolutely! I was just about to add that but you beat me to it.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
