SPECIFIC STRATEGY QUESTION
Ok a little background, the casino near me stands on soft 17, uses 6 decks, doubling is allowed after all splits on any two cards, dealer peaks, late surrender is allowed on any two cards, player can split up to 4 hands, except for Aces where only one split is allowed and you only get one card after splitting aces.
My question is this:
After i split aces and get the one card that I am allowed, I am allowed to surrender each "A-Whatever" hand individually. Which hand values should I be surrendering against which dealer up cards?
The hand values can range from 12 to 21, and the dealer could have a 2 to A for their up card.
This is the one situation I'm always questioning myself what to do. Should I be surrendering in any situation here?
Thanks for everybody's help.
I HOPE THE WIZARD WILL SEE THIS POST CUZ I'M HOPING TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.
If you have 18 or more, never surrender.
16 or fewer, surrender against 8-A.
(This is an educated guess)
So, surrender 16 or less against 8-A
DON'T surrender anything else. Including 17 vs A (-0.478 for standing)
So, if you split Aces and end up with soft 12,13,14,15 or 16 then you should surrender against a dealer 8, 9 10 or Ace. A dealer 7 is a close surrender but you gain slightly more by not surrendering. Also, (if I've calculated correctly), 17 verses Ace is a close decision but again you are slightly better off by not surrendering.
edit: posted this same time as dwheatley above ...
Quote: DMackdaddyHey,
Ok a little background, the casino near me stands on soft 17, uses 6 decks, doubling is allowed after all splits on any two cards, dealer peaks, late surrender is allowed on any two cards, player can split up to 4 hands, except for Aces where only one split is allowed and you only get one card after splitting aces.
My question is this:
After i split aces and get the one card that I am allowed, I am allowed to surrender each "A-Whatever" hand individually. Which hand values should I be surrendering against which dealer up cards?
The hand values can range from 12 to 21, and the dealer could have a 2 to A for their up card.
This is the one situation I'm always questioning myself what to do. Should I be surrendering in any situation here?
Thanks for everybody's help.
I HOPE THE WIZARD WILL SEE THIS POST CUZ I'M HOPING TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.
I believe this would be the same as double down rescue in spanish 21.you should surrender totals of 12-16 against 8-A and 17 against A
Quote: 24Bingothe math is pretty tedious unless there's a trick I'm missing.
The math is simple: If you have the choice between surrender and an (implicit) stand, you surrender (EV = -0.5) your hand if the EV on stand is lower.
If you consult the table (which is given above), you find that this is the case for all stiff hands against dealers 8, 9, 10, or Ace.
I was wrong about using spanish, surrendering 17 against ace is wrong foR S17Quote: 24BingoI'm not sure the Spanish 21 strategy (surrender up to 16 against 8-A, 17 against A) is optimal, since that's assuming fewer tens. If nothing else, my guess would be it prices you in to surrender low totals against a 7, but I'm not even close to certain, and the math is pretty tedious unless there's a trick I'm missing.
Quote: bigpete88Those are as favorable rules as I have ever seen. Pound that game if you are able. Standard Vegas strip rules with the added bonus of late surrender.
Would you get even more jealous if I told you this casino openly supports counting? There's one dealer that burns the first card and says while showing it....so if you're counting that's a -1 (or +1) lol.
Quote: MangoJThe math is simple: If you have the choice between surrender and an (implicit) stand, you surrender (EV = -0.5) your hand if the EV on stand is lower.
If you consult the table (which is given above), you find that this is the case for all stiff hands against dealers 8, 9, 10, or Ace.
Return table. That would be the trick.
Quote: jmaftirI would also be surprised if they let you surrender a hand after a split. Please confirm that is the case.
Yes, that is the case.
You split aces, the dealer gives you one card on one hand, then asks if you want to surrender. You can either signal to surrender or wave sideways to stay....the dealer then gives you your other card on the other ace....then you get the same options.
Quote: DMackdaddyYes, that is the case.
You split aces, the dealer gives you one card on one hand, then asks if you want to surrender. You can either signal to surrender or wave sideways to stay....the dealer then gives you your other card on the other ace....then you get the same options.
Dat shit cray!
Quote: DMackdaddyHey,
Ok a little background, the casino near me stands on soft 17, uses 6 decks, doubling is allowed after all splits on any two cards, dealer peaks, late surrender is allowed on any two cards, player can split up to 4 hands, except for Aces where only one split is allowed and you only get one card after splitting aces.
My question is this:
After i split aces and get the one card that I am allowed, I am allowed to surrender each "A-Whatever" hand individually. Which hand values should I be surrendering against which dealer up cards?
The hand values can range from 12 to 21, and the dealer could have a 2 to A for their up card.
This is the one situation I'm always questioning myself what to do. Should I be surrendering in any situation here?
Thanks for everybody's help.
I HOPE THE WIZARD WILL SEE THIS POST CUZ I'M HOPING TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.
Shouldn't OP just follow standard late surrender rules?
i.e 16 vs 9/X/A and 15 vs X at neutral counts
Quote: mgaShouldn't OP just follow standard late surrender rules?
Nope, because standard strategy is "best of stand, hit, split, double, or surrender".
After you split your aces, you need "best of stand or surrender" - which is quite different.
Quote: dwheatleyYou can use this return table to get very close to optimal surrendering play. If the EV of standing is less than -0.5, you should surrender.
So, surrender 16 or less against 8-A
DON'T surrender anything else. Including 17 vs A (-0.478 for standing)
The issue of counting is why I said close to optimal. If you are counting, you need the index numbers for all the surrenders (16 and under would have the same index number)
