EvenBob

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
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No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
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So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
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The shuffle randomly determines which sequence of cards can be dealt.

You cannot have a pair of J♦'s in a single deck game dealt from a common pack. There is only one J♦, it cannot be dealt twice between shuffles.

If it were otherwise, I could agree with you.
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"..all variants of poker, individuals compete for an amount of money or chips contributed by the players themselves (called the pot). Because the cards are dealt randomly and outside the control of the players, each player attempts to control the amount of money in the pot based on the hand they are holding,[1] and on their prediction as to what their opponents may be holding and how they might behave"

Wikipedia
link to original post

You seriously need to stop using poker as an example, you obviously know very little about the game. It makes you look foolish.

Poker is an absolute skill game, winning or losing over the long will be based on your skill compared to others you are playing with. You don't even have to randomly shuffle the cards to play poker. You don't even have to look at or use your cards to win at poker. When playing heads up and short-handed people oftentimes don't care much about what their cards are, it's about the position and knowing how your opponents play. Oftentimes in poker, you're making skilled decisions before the cards are ever dealt, even before you've ever even seen anyone play a single hand.

Second round five virtual vets 5 real bets 5 virtual. Got 10 right and five wrong. This is the way I used to play before I started playing for just one unit and I would have settled for this making five units. But it takes so much longer and the hit rate is so much lower. I would have to play this for a while before I start betting real money. But so far I'm not noticing any anomalies in the outcomes. We'll see.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post

No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post

So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
link to original post

The shuffle randomly determines which sequence of cards can be dealt.

You cannot have a pair of J♦'s in a single deck game dealt from a common pack. There is only one J♦, it cannot be dealt twice between shuffles.

If it were otherwise, I could agree with you.
link to original post

"..all variants of poker, individuals compete for an amount of money or chips contributed by the players themselves (called the pot). Because the cards are dealt randomly and outside the control of the players, each player attempts to control the amount of money in the pot based on the hand they are holding,[1] and on their prediction as to what their opponents may be holding and how they might behave"

Wikipedia
link to original post

You seriously need to stop using poker as an example, you obviously know very little about the game. It makes you look foolish.

Poker is an absolute skill game, winning or losing over the long will be based on your skill compared to others you are playing with. You don't even have to randomly shuffle the cards to play poker. You don't even have to look at or use your cards to win at poker. When playing heads up and short-handed people oftentimes don't care much about what their cards are, it's about the position and knowing how your opponents play. Oftentimes in poker, you're making skilled decisions before the cards are ever dealt, even before you've ever even seen anyone play a single hand.
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I couldn't care less how poker is beaten my point is it starts with random outcomes as does blackjack and that's all I care about. If those random outcome games can be beaten so can others. The whole point of shuffling a deck of cards either by hand or with Shuffle machine iis to make the decks as random as possible. Can you argue with that? If that's the goal to make them random then each card coming out of the deck is random. This is not rocket science. You people are far too hung up on how the games are beat, who cares. T

My third round on the roulette lightning wheel was very typical, the second column was majorly sleeping so I pretty much bet first and third columns. The second column woke up on the 13th bet and I was done. So far this wheel is acting very much like a real wheel spun by a human. But I will have to play it many more times than this to make my final decision. Lots of people playing it again tonight it's very popular. But they're not betting very much money there might be 15 winners a total payout of $430. That's chicken feed compared to regular roulette. So they are doing what I'm doing they are testing it out by making small bets. Regular roulette players are pretty crafty we can spot a bogus wheel because it acts differently. Roulette outcomes become very familiar to you if you play a lot and when it starts to deviate you can tell something's wrong. Most people have not crafted it down as far as I have but we do spot the same things. I remember about 2009 Bally introduced those tall green roulette slot machines that looked like the real thing. They were crowded with players for the first couple of weeks and after that they were just dead and they eventually got rid of them. Roulette players knew there was something wrong they were acting nothing like how real roulette works.

I remember seeing one machine where somebody had bet the minimum amount on every single number except the number 11 and guess what the winner was? Number 11. They gave up in disgust that's why their last game was still displayed.

Quote: EvenBob

…Nobody wants to ask questions everybody just wants to express they're uneducated opinions…
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Really. Is that a fact. Hmmm…

Globalize much?

Don’t forget, people, cats’ waste IS highly toxic.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post

No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post

So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
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The first card dealt would be random assuming a well shuffled deck but not the following cards. In a single deck, if the first card dealt is the 2 of clubs, there is no chance the next card will be the 2 of clubs. As others have said the following events are then dependent events.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: SOOPOO

Why would anyone even believe EB actually plays roulette for money?
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I love how everyone here is an expert on what I do yet not one single person here has ever tried it. Soopoo, you are a doctor, would you have been one of the other doctors in the 19th century to lock the doctor who discovered washing hands in between operations in a mental institution? Simply because they did not want to believe his claims. Giving your stance against me I guess you would have locked him up because you think you know more than I do about this and you've never done it.
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Bob, the doctor who felt washing his hands would help in surgery made an hypothesis. It was then proven using the scientific method of research and analysis. The same analysis has already very easily been used to DISPROVE your claims. You continuously erroneously claim someone needs to play roulette to understand it. Roulette is such a simple game that I can FULLY understand it only having played it a very few times. I can say the same for craps. BJ and baccarat are somewhat more complex and require math above my pay grade to fully understand their ‘beatability’. But I trust the math experts (many who participate here) that show BJ is beatable using counting/bet size variation techniques, and baccarat is not beatable under the great majority of real world situations.
I could have told you roulette is not beatable by the time I was in 10th grade.

Bob on the roulette lightning wheel is this the one that draws a few numbers after the wheel starts to spin and if any of these hits it gets a multiplier? If so is it just the inside numbers or does it also sometimes give multipliers on the outside (columns, dozens ect)? If it only does the numbers then are you playing some numbers straight up?

Quote: EvenBob

"Are the results of each round in blackjack essentially independent events?
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No, full stop.

Quote: EvenBob

One of my favorite ways of playing is to use the patterns and trends in the high low numbers and use them to bet on the dozens by making the dozens an even chance which I explained earlier. I also do this with the columns. By taking the first column and half of the second column and running it against the bottom half of the second column and the third column I turn it into an even chance bet. I then turn the columns into a EC like I do the dozens. What this does is let you bet on 24 numbers even though 12 numbers are a push it is still an even chance win. There is no advantage in doing this, the advantage comes from reading the patterns and trends in the high low numbers and the two halves of the columns that I turned into an EC bet. I watch the sleepers also on columns and dozens because 12 numbers sleep a lot more often than 18 numbers for obvious reasons. And six numbers in the streets sleep even more often but that's another story.
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hey

I read the whole thread but to be frank by whole thread I mean I read every posting of EvenBob but stopped at some stage to read all the other members postings as they were only attacking and it repeated itself.
(just for info English is not my mother language)

EvenBob wrote he will answer questions. I will ask some questions and hopefully will get the answers to those. I apologize in advance if I missed an answer/question

regarding pattern and trends:
Would this be one of the patterns you call a pattern?
B,RRRRRRR,B,RRR,B,RRRRRRRRR,B,RRRRR,B,RR,B,RRRRRB,

What is a trend according your opinion/view? 6 x 8 x 10x Red or Black for example?

>you wrote that you flat bet but it is not same amount any 2 days!<
please be so kind to explain this as I am confused. I know a flat bet can be 1 unit 2 units or more and I also understood that you are not playing a progressive strategy

please explain the even bets when playing columns. you are betting 1 column and a half column.
how do you bet a half column? as far as I know roulette columns and betting half column you would need to bet on the numbers of the column. I understood that you don't have much time to place your bets, will it still be enough time to place the bets?

when betting on 2 columns/dozens against a sleeper column/dozen please explain how or why you decide which column/dozen you bet 1 unit and the other column/dozen with 2 units?

as we are talking about column/dozen sleepers would you give us a minimum number a column/dozen is not showing up so you call it a sleeper?

I am also confused by your virtual bets. for example > 5 virtual bets > 5 real money bets > 5 virtual bets
could you please explain a bit more about those virtual bets? why do you use those virtual bets? do you use those virtual bets always before yo place a real money bet? what is the reasoning of those virtual bets?

that's it for now :) and sorry for so many questions in one posting

sorry I forgot to ask how many screens your PC setup has?

Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: darkoz

Right, and you sit home all day on gambling websites and don't recognize you are gambling.
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I don't play all day the sessions are very short and that is correct, I'm not gambling.
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Right.

You are classic addiction not able to recognize you have a problem.

The more you claim to make wagers but aren't gambling the more you prove you have an addiction and don't recognize it.

Even the most successful advantage Player will say he is gambling and refer to himself as a professional gambler.
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Warning: I am very close to handing out a suspension for a personal insult. These are personal comments that are insulting. Your role is not to psychoanalyze the other posters and announce that they have a disorder. Is that clear?

I am closing this thread and will reopen it in approximately 36 hours.

Warning: You not allowed to personally insult the person you disagree with.

1. Calling someone delusional is an insult. This insult is being repeated by multiple posters.

2. Calling someone a gambling addict is an insult. It is particularly insulting when there is clearly no basis for such a statement.

Rather than suspend a fraction of the forum, I will temporarily close this thread and allow it to sink below the Recent Threads list. I will reopen it on Saturday evening, and if the same people then get on this thread and continue to violate the forum rules against personal insults, I will take stronger action.

Quote: gordonm888

I am closing this thread and will reopen it in approximately 36 hours.

Warning: You not allowed to personally insult the person you disagree with.

1. Calling someone delusional is an insult. This insult is being repeated by multiple posters.

2. Calling someone a gambling addict is an insult. It is particularly insulting when there is clearly no basis for such a statement.

Rather than suspend a fraction of the forum, I will temporarily close this thread and allow it to sink below the Recent Threads list. I will reopen it on Saturday evening, and if the same people then get on this thread and continue to violate the forum rules against personal insults, I will take stronger action.
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Did MDawg pay you to do this? :-P

Quote: vegas

Bob on the roulette lightning wheel is this the one that draws a few numbers after the wheel starts to spin and if any of these hits it gets a multiplier? If so is it just the inside numbers or does it also sometimes give multipliers on the outside (columns, dozens ect)? If it only does the numbers then are you playing some numbers straight up?
link to original post

It only applies to the inside numbers never the outside bets. I never bet the inside numbers.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/37509-my-governor-changed-my-life/17/#post863497

Quote: seven
regarding pattern and trends:
Would this be one of the patterns you call a pattern?
B,RRRRRRR,B,RRR,B,RRRRRRRRR,B,RRRRR,B,RR,B,RRRRRB,



No

Quote: seven
What is a trend according your opinion/view? 6 x 8 x 10x Red or Black for example?



Anything that keeps repeating for longer than 5 spins. Such as BBBBB or BRBRBRQuote: seven



Quote: seven
you wrote that you flat bet but it is not same amount any 2 days!<
please be so kind to explain this as I am confused. I know a flat bet can be 1 unit 2 units or more and I also understood that you are not playing a progressive strategy

I change the dollar amounts of my bets so it doesn't look like I'm using any kind of a routine method.



Quote: seven
please explain the even bets when playing columns. you are betting 1 column and a half column.
how do you bet a half column? as far as I know roulette columns and betting half column you would need to bet on the numbers of the column. I understood that you don't have much time to place your bets, will it still be enough time to place the bets?



I do not bet half a column I cut the column numbers in half so I can keep track of which columns to bet on. I run the first 18 numbers in the columns against the last 18 numbers just like you do in a high low bet.


Quote: seven
when betting on 2 columns/dozens against a sleeper column/dozen please explain how or why you decide which column/dozen you bet 1 unit and the other column/dozen with 2 units?



I usually run the 1st and 3rd against each other as a even chance bet by making the second a push. When I see a bet I will place 2 units on the 1st or 3rd and one unit on the second thereby neutralizing the second. I do this because I tend to see different kinds of patterns when I run 12 numbers against 12 numbers then I do 18 against 18.




Quote: seven
as we are talking about column/dozen sleepers would you give us a minimum number a column/dozen is not showing up so you call it a sleeper?



For me disappearing for six or seven spins qualifies it as sleeping.



Quote: seven
I am also confused by your virtual bets. for example > 5 virtual bets > 5 real money bets > 5 virtual bets
could you please explain a bit more about those virtual bets? why do you use those virtual bets? do you use those virtual bets always before yo place a real money bet? what is the reasoning of those virtual bets?



I always bet first virtually to see if the outcomes are actually playing my game because sometimes they are not. Because I'm experimenting on this wheel I do 5 + 5 + 5 to see if there is continuity between betting virtually and betting real money. In regular play I only try to make one unit so I don't need to do this



Quote: seven
sorry I forgot to ask how many screens your PC setup has?



I only use one screen because there's not enough time to follow more than one stream of information. There is barely time to do that with 20 seconds in between bets.

A lot of really good questions, you put a lot of thought into this. Thank you for asking.

Quote: EvenBob

I usually run the 1st and 3rd against each other as a even chance bet by making the second a push. When I see a bet I will place 2 units on the 1st or 3rd and one unit on the second thereby neutralizing the second.
link to original post

This would mean you are losing two units when the second dozen hits while only winning one unit when the first and third hits.

Plus you lose five units when green hits

How is that an even chance?

Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

I usually run the 1st and 3rd against each other as a even chance bet by making the second a push. When I see a bet I will place 2 units on the 1st or 3rd and one unit on the second thereby neutralizing the second.
link to original post

This would mean you are losing two units when the second dozen hits while only winning one unit when the first and third hits.

Plus you lose five units when green hits

How is that an even chance?
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I am betting 3 units total and the most I can lose is three units. When I bet 2 on the first or third dozen I win three units. That's what makes it even chance. Two units on the first dozen and I win four units minus one unit that was on the second dozen for a total win of three units. 3 units bet 3 units won

What’s wrong with placing the ten for 3 units? About the same vig and variance as 00 roulette column bet. Alternatively you could place the ten for 2 units and the four for 1 unit. Even chance

Another similar and fun option would be to buy the four…but only if the commission is collected up front. That keeps the vig at 4.76%, comparable to 00 roulette

The patterns are easier to track and exploit using dice

Quote: Ace2

What’s wrong with placing the ten for 3 units?
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I do not understand what placing the 10 means

Thank you very much for answering each of my questions, very much appreciated. please bear with me as I have follow up questions.
please correct me guys regarding quoting and formatting as it is not my strength.

Quote: seven
regarding pattern and trends:
Would this be one of the patterns you call a pattern?
B,RRRRRRR,B,RRR,B,RRRRRRRRR,B,RRRRR,B,RR,B,RRRRRB,

Quote: EvenBob

No

do I have to think of another sample I think it could be a pattern and ask again? or could you please give me an example of one? as I was sure my above example is a pattern :)

Quote: seven
What is a trend according your opinion/view? 6 x 8 x 10x Red or Black for example?

Quote: EvenBob

Anything that keeps repeating for longer than 5 spins. Such as BBBBB or BRBRBR

do you only follow and bet Red/Black? or also Even/Odd and 1-18 and 19-36?

Quote: seven
you wrote that you flat bet but it is not same amount any 2 days!<
please be so kind to explain this as I am confused. I know a flat bet can be 1 unit 2 units or more and I also understood that you are not playing a progressive strategy

Quote: EvenBob

I change the dollar amounts of my bets so it doesn't look like I'm using any kind of a routine method.

means to confuse the enemy :) I assume you change the amount after a winning session and not during a session?

Quote: seven
please explain the even bets when playing columns. you are betting 1 column and a half column.
how do you bet a half column? as far as I know roulette columns and betting half column you would need to bet on the numbers of the column. I understood that you don't have much time to place your bets, will it still be enough time to place the bets?

Quote: EvenBob

I do not bet half a column I cut the column numbers in half so I can keep track of which columns to bet on. I run the first 18 numbers in the columns against the last 18 numbers just like you do in a high low bet.

thanks for clarifying as it is new to me that someone is using this kind of approach to get another even bet pattern/trend
let's see if I understood it right that if you get a bet signal>trend/pattern then you bet 1 on the column which has half numbers and the 2 units you bet on the full column

Quote: seven
when betting on 2 columns/dozens against a sleeper column/dozen please explain how or why you decide which column/dozen you bet 1 unit and the other column/dozen with 2 units?

Quote: EvenBob

I usually run the 1st and 3rd against each other as a even chance bet by making the second a push. When I see a bet I will place 2 units on the 1st or 3rd and one unit on the second thereby neutralizing the second. I do this because I tend to see different kinds of patterns when I run 12 numbers against 12 numbers then I do 18 against 18.

thanks for clarifying and again a very interesting approach.

Quote: seven
as we are talking about column/dozen sleepers would you give us a minimum number a column/dozen is not showing up so you call it a sleeper?

Quote: EvenBob

For me disappearing for six or seven spins qualifies it as sleeping.

according to your answers above I need to ask the following
let's start with the dozens. what if the 2nd dozen is the sleeper? how do you handle this as the 2nd dozen is the one you try to neutralize?
regarding the columns do you check also for sleepers or only the 18/18 chance of the 3 columns? and if you check also for sleepers how do you play it?

Quote: seven
I am also confused by your virtual bets. for example > 5 virtual bets > 5 real money bets > 5 virtual bets
could you please explain a bit more about those virtual bets? why do you use those virtual bets? do you use those virtual bets always before yo place a real money bet? what is the reasoning of those virtual bets?

Quote: EvenBob

I always bet first virtually to see if the outcomes are actually playing my game because sometimes they are not. Because I'm experimenting on this wheel I do 5 + 5 + 5 to see if there is continuity between betting virtually and betting real money. In regular play I only try to make one unit so I don't need to do this

you bet the first one virtually on any pattern/trend you see which fits to your game, so if you win (virtually) will you do the real money bet on the same trend/pattern or do you wait for the next trend/pattern?
do you always do this virtual bet before the real money bet after you see the trend/patter you are looking for? for example you see the trend/pattern you are looking for you do the virtual bet if you lose the virtual bet I assume you are looking for a new trend/pattern and you d again a virtual bet and if you win the virtual bet you will do immediately the real money bet? let's say you win and you have your 1 unit profit per session. then you decide for another session. will you again do the virtual bet before the real money bet?
I hope it was not to confusing :)

Quote: EvenBob

I only use one screen because there's not enough time to follow more than one stream of information. There is barely time to do that with 20 seconds in between bets.

I thought somehow that you are following 2-3 different live dealer casinos online and in this case it would be better to use more than one screen

BTW could you teach/explain your way of seeing patterns/trends to someone else and he would bet same way you are doing it? or is it that only you with the years of experience can see those patterns fast enough?

thank you again for answering all my questions. stay safe there

Quote: seven

do I have to think of another sample I think it could be a pattern and ask again? or could you please give me an example of one? as I was sure my above example is a pattern :)

Patterns are things like BBRBBRBBR or BBRRBBRRBB or BBRBBRRBRR

Quote: seven

do you only follow and bet Red/Black? or also Even/Odd and 1-18 and 19-36?

Yes online I follow all three. That's all I have time for cuz I only have 20 seconds to make a bet.

Quote: seven

means to confuse the enemy :) I assume you change the amount after a winning session and not during a session?

The bets have to remain the same during the session if I'm going to end up one unit ahead.

Quote: seven

thanks for clarifying as it is new to me that someone is using this kind of approach to get another even bet pattern/trend
let's see if I understood it right that if you get a bet signal>trend/pattern then you bet 1 on the column which has half numbers and the 2 units you bet on the full column

No. When I see a bet to make it will be on the 1st or 3rd column and I place two units on the 1st or 3rd and one on the second. I only use the numbers from splitting the column in half to determine where I'm going to place my bet. In other words if I think it's going to be the second half I'll place my bet on the second and third column.

Quote: seven

when betting on 2 columns/dozens against a sleeper column/dozen please explain how or why you decide which column/dozen you bet 1 unit and the other column/dozen with 2 units?

When I'm triggered by a sleeper I'll bet both the others equally. In other words if the third dozen is sleeping I'll bet equal units on the first and second dozen.

Quote: seven

regarding the columns do you check also for sleepers or only the 18/18 chance of the 3 columns? ?

I am always looking for sleeping dozens 100% of the time. Because they are quite often money in the bank.

Quote: seven

you bet the first one virtually on any pattern/trend you see which fits to your game, so if you win (virtually) will you do the real money bet on the same trend/pattern or do you wait for the next trend/pattern?
do you always do this virtual bet before the real money bet after you see the trend/patter you are looking for? for example you see the trend/pattern you are looking for you do the virtual bet if you lose the virtual bet I assume you are looking for a new trend/pattern and you d again a virtual bet and if you win the virtual bet you will do immediately the real money bet? let's say you win and you have your 1 unit profit per session. then you decide for another session. will you again do the virtual bet before the real money bet?
I hope it was not to confusing :)

I make several virtual bets always to see if the patterns are for real. If they are not I move on or wait for something else. You cannot just jump in and start betting because you'll lose half the time. You have to verify to have any kind of chance of winning one unit on a regular basis. And I am still wrong one out of five times.

Quote: seven

BTW could you teach/explain your way of seeing patterns/trends to someone else and he would bet same way you are doing it? or is it that only you with the years of experience can see those patterns fast enough?

It would be very difficult the most I could do is point in the right direction and the person would have to do most of the work themselves. It's a matter of becoming familiar with how the patterns and trends of 36 numbers looks and behaves over time. It can only do so many things it's very limited in its scope. If there were 70 numbers it would be impossible.

Quote: seven

thank you again for answering all my questions. stay safe there

I appreciate all the thought that you put into your questions feel free to keep asking. I'll basically tell you anything you want to know. I used to be afraid somebody would steal this but now I know nobody will steal it because it's too hard to learn and nobody wants to take the time to do it.
link to original post

Because I only have 20 seconds in between bets I pretty much have to think ahead that if this happens I'll do this or if that happens I'll do that. So when I see the outcome I already know what to do. And it still doesn't leave much time. I know what 99% of the people do. They make their favorite bets and just hit the repeat button. I never had the luxury of doing that because every bet I make is unique.

Quote: EvenBob

Patterns are things like BBRBBRBBR or BBRRBBRRBB or BBRBBRRBRR

Something like that could easily be programmed. I understand it's probably more complicated than that, but unless you're just making up what you consider a good situation as you go, it CAN be programmed. It's not even that complicated.

Not only can it be programmed to recognize whatever it is you're looking for, but it could also even make the bets for you. I don't know if something like that would break any state LAWS, however, as I said before, there's a $h!t ton of "legitimate" offshore joints such as Bovada.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Patterns are things like BBRBBRBBR or BBRRBBRRBB or BBRBBRRBRR

Something like that could easily be programmed. I understand it's probably more complicated than that, but unless you're just making up what you consider a good situation as you go, it CAN be programmed. It's not even that complicated.

Not only can it be programmed to recognize whatever it is you're looking for, but it could also even make the bets for you. I don't know if something like that would break any state LAWS, however, as I said before, there's a $h!t ton of "legitimate" offshore joints such as Bovada.
link to original post

Those are very simple patterns I used as examples. And no it's not as easy as you see a pattern and you bet anybody can do that. There's way more to it, obviously. Believe me we talked about this on other forums those of us that know how to do it we all agree programming it would be very difficult. Probably not impossible but not worth the time. There are too many factors involved.

The casinos are all in on the big lie. They say they want you to win , they tell you you're going to win. In all their promos for every casino all they show is people winning. Winning and winning and winning. Winning jackpots on the slots. winning huge amounts at the roulette and craps tables. Super joyful people throwing money up in the air because they just won a new car. They never tell you the truth that the last thing they want is for you to win. They never show people devastated by loss. The whole industry is a lie from top to bottom, that's probably one of the reasons I can't stand going to a casino. Like I said I'm no gambler, my state legalizing online gambling was the best thing to happen to me in this industry in the last 10 years. I don't remember ever having a good time in a brick-and-mortar casino, even winning. The whole place just depresses me.

I have been corresponding with somebody who read this thread and thinks what I do in roulette has some relation to a Markov chain. So I looked it up and holy crap, he might be right.

"THE MARKOV CHAIN PERSPECTIVE OF ROULETTE
The idea in this gaming perspective of Roulette is to just watch the spins and wait for the
right time to bet. However, the dilemma in this gaming perspective is, when is the right time to
bet? With the knowledge of the characteristics of the Markov chain representation of the Roulette,
we look into the probabilities and means of the first passage time to analyze the game...

Playing Roulette by applying the results from the Markov chain representation is better
than betting in every round. However, this perspective is not foolproof. The randomness of the
wheel is not being eliminated by the Markov chain representation. It just allow a player to gauge
a time interval in which betting on a color change is a favourable outcome.
The gaming perspective from the Markov chain representation gives a player more
confidence to win in the end, with less attempts. A player who wants to try this gaming perspective
should have utmost patience and content. Though, it is better than betting every round, it will only
allow you to win a few since waiting is big part of it."

The author of this article just described exactly what I do. The article concentrate solely on the even chances in this case red and black. The article claims that if you wait and watch for certain conditions you have a better chance of winning. That is exactly what I do and I've been doing it for so long that I think I've carried it to a new level beyond the scope of this article. I'll have to look into this more but at this point this is some pretty positive stuff. I'm not even pretending I understand most of this but he hit the nail on the head too many times for me to ignore it. He's describing how I play.

Here's the link, the article isn't very long but it's very scholarly and well-written the guy obviously knows what he's talking about.

https://academic.macewan.ca/burok/Stat322/seminar/Roulette.pdf

You wonder why I post a thread like this, you're looking at the reason. I would never discover things of this nature so it wasn't for input from the outside. That's why I put up with all the abuse for times like this.

Markov is now rolling over in his grave…..

You do realize that EvenBob is an energy vampire, right?

83 pages! Well done EvenBob. LOL!!! :)

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Patterns are things like BBRBBRBBR or BBRRBBRRBB or BBRBBRRBRR

Something like that could easily be programmed. I understand it's probably more complicated than that, but unless you're just making up what you consider a good situation as you go, it CAN be programmed. It's not even that complicated.

Not only can it be programmed to recognize whatever it is you're looking for, but it could also even make the bets for you. I don't know if something like that would break any state LAWS, however, as I said before, there's a $h!t ton of "legitimate" offshore joints such as Bovada.
link to original post

Those are very simple patterns I used as examples. And no it's not as easy as you see a pattern and you bet anybody can do that. There's way more to it, obviously. Believe me we talked about this on other forums those of us that know how to do it we all agree programming it would be very difficult. Probably not impossible but not worth the time. There are too many factors involved.
link to original post

As I said before, you are talking to the wrong people.

Not worth it? Don't be silly, if what you've been saying is true, it's worth millions.

Whenever you had spotted a pattern, you should have been taking screenshots after making your bets. That data could've been added to a database. It may not be perfect, however, it would have certainly added a lot of extra betting opportunities.

There are already a bunch of different roulette programs some of which detect patterns.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Patterns are things like BBRBBRBBR or BBRRBBRRBB or BBRBBRRBRR

Something like that could easily be programmed. I understand it's probably more complicated than that, but unless you're just making up what you consider a good situation as you go, it CAN be programmed. It's not even that complicated.

Not only can it be programmed to recognize whatever it is you're looking for, but it could also even make the bets for you. I don't know if something like that would break any state LAWS, however, as I said before, there's a $h!t ton of "legitimate" offshore joints such as Bovada.
link to original post

Those are very simple patterns I used as examples. And no it's not as easy as you see a pattern and you bet anybody can do that. There's way more to it, obviously. Believe me we talked about this on other forums those of us that know how to do it we all agree programming it would be very difficult. Probably not impossible but not worth the time. There are too many factors involved.
link to original post

As I said before, you are talking to the wrong people.

Not worth it? Don't be silly, if what you've been saying is true, it's worth millions.

Whenever you had spotted a pattern, you should have been taking screenshots after making your bets. That data could've been added to a database. It may not be perfect, however, it would have certainly added a lot of extra betting opportunities.

There are already a bunch of different roulette programs some of which detect patterns.
link to original post

just thought to tell you that this makes a lot of sense to me
thanks

*Sigh*

Never has so much been written about so little.

Quote: EvenBob

Patterns are things like BBRBBRBBR or BBRRBBRRBB or BBRBBRRBRR

Where would you put your bet (taking those patterns)?

Quote: EvenBob

When I'm triggered by a sleeper I'll bet both the others equally. In other words if the third dozen is sleeping I'll bet equal units on the first and second dozen.

I know now you prefer the sleeper bet only on dozens.
Ok let's say 6 times no 3rd dozen will you bet not real money or virtual on the next spin?

You win your real money bet you have your one unit profit and stop.
What if you lose the real money bet? Will you wait for another 6 time sleeper and go on betting until you will have one unit profit?
If yes you found another 6 x sleeper you will do your bet and win and now you are even. Will you bet the next spin again to try to get your one unit profit?

Will this be a 6 times sleeper 5 18 8 15 20 00? how do you handle the zeros when looking for a 6x sleeper and when betting and a zero shows up?

link to original post
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/37509-my-governor-changed-my-life/17/#post863748

edit and added question
how many patterns do you follow? how many patterns of yours are needed to get those 80% hit rate? would be one pattern enough?

Quote: AxelWolf

[As I said before, you are talking to the wrong people.

Not worth it? Don't be silly, if what you've been saying is true, it's worth millions.
link to original post

It pays the bills that's all I care about.

Quote: seven

Where would you put your bet (taking those patterns)?

Don't know, just looking at one pattern is not enough information.

Quote: seven

I know now you prefer the sleeper bet only on dozens.
Ok let's say 6 times no 3rd dozen will you bet not real money or virtual on the next spin?

I would wait for more information.

Quote: seven

You win your real money bet you have your one unit profit and stop.
What if you lose the real money bet? Will you wait for another 6 time sleeper and go on betting until you will have one unit profit?

I will start looking for another betting opportunity it could be anywhere.

Quote: seven

If yes you found another 6 x sleeper you will do your bet and win and now you are even. Will you bet the next spin again to try to get your one unit profit?

Probably not I will look for something else.

Quote: seven

Will this be a 6 times sleeper 5 18 8 15 20 00? how do you handle the zeros when looking for a 6x sleeper and when betting and a zero shows up?

I completely ignore the zeros they don't even exist for me except as a nuisance. I consider them a non spin.

Quote: seven

how many patterns do you follow?
link to original post

I do not understand the question.

Quote: EvenBob

Don't know, just looking at one pattern is not enough information.

those are 3 patterns or what did I miss here?

Quote: EvenBob

I would wait for more information

I remember you answered that a dozen sleeper for you is when 6 or 7 times not showing up. What other information do you need to confirm the sleeper after 6-7 times not showing up?

Quote: EvenBob

I do not understand the question.

I understood that you are betting only on patterns you learned all the past years. How many patters are there that you follow and are accepting as a pattern to bet on?

Quote: seven

Quote: EvenBob

Don't know, just looking at one pattern is not enough information.

What you're looking for are rules and regulations and triggers and a road map of where to make the next bet. It doesn't exist if it did everybody would be doing this and nobody's doing it. What you want is for me to say if you see A bet on B. I don't play that way, it doesn't work. You will be wrong half the time. You are never going to understand this unless you start studying outcomes and you do that by logging into an online casino writing down the outcomes and where you think the bets are or download actual outcomes from some of the German casinos that are online which is what I did for years. I also bought something called Roulette Xtreme that you download online and you can put actual outcomes in it from real casinos and play it like it's real roulette. It's an invaluable tool for learning how to deal with outcomes. In order to understand this you have to put in the time of playing and playing and playing and playing virtually on something like the software I just mentioned. I've thrown away boxes and boxes and boxes of notebooks that are full on both sides of the paper front to back of virtual sessions that I played online. Not betting real money just learning how to do it. I'm realizing that answering questions is not going to get you anywhere except confused. People who think this can be programmed are wrong because there are no rules there are no triggers. What there is is understanding how the outcomes behave. Confused yet?

EvenBob either you're the most epic troll in the world that managed to waste the time of so many people here or you're just out of your mind.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: seven

Quote: EvenBob

Don't know, just looking at one pattern is not enough information.

What you're looking for are rules and regulations and triggers and a road map of where to make the next bet. It doesn't exist if it did everybody would be doing this and nobody's doing it. What you want is for me to say if you see A bet on B. I don't play that way, it doesn't work. You will be wrong half the time. You are never going to understand this unless you start studying outcomes and you do that by logging into an online casino writing down the outcomes and where you think the bets are or download actual outcomes from some of the German casinos that are online which is what I did for years. I also bought something called Roulette Xtreme that you download online and you can put actual outcomes in it from real casinos and play it like it's real roulette. It's an invaluable tool for learning how to deal with outcomes. In order to understand this you have to put in the time of playing and playing and playing and playing virtually on something like the software I just mentioned. I've thrown away boxes and boxes and boxes of notebooks that are full on both sides of the paper front to back of virtual sessions that I played online. Not betting real money just learning how to do it. I'm realizing that answering questions is not going to get you anywhere except confused. People who think this can be programmed are wrong because there are no rules there are no triggers. What there is is understanding how the outcomes behave. Confused yet?
link to original post

You used poker and Blackjack as examples of random games people figured out how to beat. There have been many programs made that are able to beat both those games but you're claiming it can't be done for roulette.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

[As I said before, you are talking to the wrong people.

Not worth it? Don't be silly, if what you've been saying is true, it's worth millions.
link to original post

It pays the bills that's all I care about.
link to original post

Wonderful, estimate how long you'll live and what your bills will be over that time then triple that amount.

Proof what you're claiming is real and how it's done and someone will pay the amount you have come up with. AND you can still do it yourself.

Quote: AxelWolf

You used poker and Blackjack as examples of random games people figured out how to beat. There have been many programs made that are able to beat both those games but you're claiming it can't be done for roulette.
link to original post

The only thing blackjack and poker have in common with roulette is they both use random outcomes. That's it they have absolutely nothing else in common so any other comparisons you make have zero validity. The only point I was trying to make and I've said this about 20 times now is that they both use random outcomes. Period.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

You used poker and Blackjack as examples of random games people figured out how to beat. There have been many programs made that are able to beat both those games but you're claiming it can't be done for roulette.
link to original post

The only thing blackjack and poker have in common with roulette is they both use random outcomes. That's it they have absolutely nothing else in common so any other comparisons you make have zero validity. The only point I was trying to make and I've said this about 20 times now is that they both use random outcomes. Period.
link to original post

But, they do not. Blackjack is not a random outcome (it can be predicted by the prior events). Poker also does not have a random outcome for both prior draw reasons and player choice within play.

Quote: Gandler

But, they do not. Blackjack is not a random outcome (it can be predicted by the prior events). Poker also does not have a random outcome for both prior draw reasons and player choice within play.
link to original post

Apparently it's a matter of opinion. I have posted three different sources here saying that cards in blackjack are random. One of the quotes is from a member of the original MIT blackjack team. It puzzles me that they go to great lengths to make sure that the decks of cards used in blackjack and in poker are thoroughly shuffled either by hand or by machine so that the cards are totally randomly occurring in the deck. Yet some maintain that as soon as you start dealing the cards it's no longer random. Of course it is, don't be ridiculous. You do not get non random outcomes from a randomly shuffled deck.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Gandler

But, they do not. Blackjack is not a random outcome (it can be predicted by the prior events). Poker also does not have a random outcome for both prior draw reasons and player choice within play.
link to original post

Apparently it's a matter of opinion. I have posted three different sources here saying that cards in blackjack are random. One of the quotes is from a member of the original MIT blackjack team. It puzzles me that they go to great lengths to make sure that the decks of cards used in blackjack and in poker are thoroughly shuffled either by hand or by machine so that the cards are totally randomly occurring in the deck. Yet some maintain that as soon as you start dealing the cards it's no longer random. Of course it is, don't be ridiculous. You do not get non random outcomes from a randomly shuffled deck.
link to original post

So if you and I played a game where we count down a randomly shuffled deck and you win whenever an ace appears

And we have gotten to only 8 cards left and not one ace had appeared yet

You would continue to flat bet because the cards are still as randomly shuffled as when we started with 52?

You wouldn't assume that because 44 cards were dealt without any aces that the odds of catching an ace in the last 8 cards were now fifty-fifty instead of 13:1?

Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Gandler

But, they do not. Blackjack is not a random outcome (it can be predicted by the prior events). Poker also does not have a random outcome for both prior draw reasons and player choice within play.
link to original post

Apparently it's a matter of opinion. I have posted three different sources here saying that cards in blackjack are random. One of the quotes is from a member of the original MIT blackjack team. It puzzles me that they go to great lengths to make sure that the decks of cards used in blackjack and in poker are thoroughly shuffled either by hand or by machine so that the cards are totally randomly occurring in the deck. Yet some maintain that as soon as you start dealing the cards it's no longer random. Of course it is, don't be ridiculous. You do not get non random outcomes from a randomly shuffled deck.
link to original post

So if you and I played a game where we count down a randomly shuffled deck and you win whenever an ace appears

And we have gotten to only 8 cards left and not one ace had appeared yet

You would continue to flat bet because the cards are still as randomly shuffled as when we started with 52?

You wouldn't assume that because 44 cards were dealt without any aces that the odds of catching an ace in the last 8 cards were now fifty-fifty instead of 13:1?
link to original post

Absolutely none of what you said changes the fact that the deck was shuffled so it's random and the cards coming out of the deck are random. What is so difficult to understand about this. So you found a way to read the cards, whoopie doo. Does not change the fact that the deck is randomly shuffled so the outcomes will be random. You cannot see the forest because the trees are blocking your sight. Just because you found 14 different ways to beat a randomly shuffled deck does not change the fact that the deck is random.

Listen kids, depending on how you are interpreting ‘random’ you are both correct. The next card in blackjack is ‘random’ with regards to the remaining cards in the deck. The next spin in roulette is random with regards to the 38 possible outcomes. Which is why the mumbo jumbo Bob post’s is just that, mumbo jumbo.

Just a reminder that EB does NOT win 80% of his even chance bets. That he does NOT pay his bills from his easily obtained roulette winnings. That there is not ONE post he has made in this thread that there is ANY reason to believe is based on any real life occurrence.

Reminder…. This ENTIRE thread is nothing but a troll thread. It is embarrassing that it is allowed to exist here.

From THE MARKOV CHAIN PERSPECTIVE OF ROULETTE

"Now, what if a player sits down and just watches the game? Instead of betting on every round,
a player will time his or her bet based on the previous results of spins."

In other words the player is using the past outcomes to make his decision about where to bet. Which is what I've been saying I do for years. And have been told 1000 times that it's impossible. Yet here we have a mathematician using a Markov chain showing that it can be done, and it will give you an advantage. I don't even pretend that I understand any of the math involved here it's way over my head. But he is certainly describing what I've been talking about in this thread and if you read this thread and you read this article you know that's true. I know there are people on this forum who understand how a Markov chain works and I'm waiting for one of you to come in here and say this guy is totally full of crap but that hasn't happened yet. What he is saying makes logical sense to me even though I do not understand the math of it. He is waiting for different states to appear and disappear which is exactly what I do and have said that I do. It requires a lot of patience and it requires looking at outcome results for years and years. Right from the start I was having small positive results and they only grew from there.

Here is the link again math people, prove he's wrong.

https://academic.macewan.ca/burok/Stat322/seminar/Roulette.pdf

Quote: SOOPOO

Just a reminder that EB does NOT win 80% of his even chance bets. That he does NOT pay his bills from his easily obtained roulette winnings. That there is not ONE post he has made in this thread that there is ANY reason to believe is based on any real life occurrence.

Just a reminder, this is just your opinion. You know almost nothing about the game of roulette, you know absolutely nothing about the method I use. Therefore your opinion is meaningless.
link to original post

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

You used poker and Blackjack as examples of random games people figured out how to beat. There have been many programs made that are able to beat both those games but you're claiming it can't be done for roulette.
link to original post

The only thing blackjack and poker have in common with roulette is they both use random outcomes. That's it they have absolutely nothing else in common so any other comparisons you make have zero validity. The only point I was trying to make and I've said this about 20 times now is that they both use random outcomes. Period.
link to original post

You were claiming that since poker and BJ use a random pre shuffle, and people have figured out proven ways to beat those games(Proven AP methods) then it shouldn't be a surprise that people have figured out a way to beat roulette with non-AP methods.

Yet, you fail to state or understand the obvious reason people can beat those games. You fail to state or understand the fact that there's math and logic behind that proof. Most people understand why those games can give someone an advantage, despite an initial random shuffle. No one who is logical, understands mathematics, and is sane can understand how it's possible. Guess why...because it isn't possible,

You want to use examples only when you believe it adds credibility to your method SYSTEM and ignore them when it's legit debunking your method SYSTEM.

You couldn't have found 2 worst examples.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

You used poker and Blackjack as examples of random games people figured out how to beat. There have been many programs made that are able to beat both those games but you're claiming it can't be done for roulette.
link to original post

The only thing blackjack and poker have in common with roulette is they both use random outcomes. That's it they have absolutely nothing else in common so any other comparisons you make have zero validity. The only point I was trying to make and I've said this about 20 times now is that they both use random outcomes. Period.
link to original post

You were claiming that since poker and BJ use a random pre shuffle, and people have figured out proven ways to beat those games(Proven AP methods) then it shouldn't be a surprise that people have figured out a way to beat roulette with non-AP methods.

Yet, you fail to state or understand the obvious reason people can beat those games. You fail to state or understand the fact that there's math and logic behind that proof. Most people understand why those games can give someone an advantage, despite an initial random shuffle. No one who is logical, understands mathematics, and is sane can understand how it's possible. Guess why...because it isn't possible,

You want to use examples only when you believe it adds credibility to your method SYSTEM and ignore them when it's legit debunking your method SYSTEM.

You couldn't have found 2 worst examples.
link to original post

Here is someone using math to show that past outcomes can indeed be used to gain the advantage in roulette. I suppose you think he's full of crap to because he doesn't agree with your opinion.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/37509-my-governor-changed-my-life/17/#post864077

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

You used poker and Blackjack as examples of random games people figured out how to beat. There have been many programs made that are able to beat both those games but you're claiming it can't be done for roulette.
link to original post

The only thing blackjack and poker have in common with roulette is they both use random outcomes. That's it they have absolutely nothing else in common so any other comparisons you make have zero validity. The only point I was trying to make and I've said this about 20 times now is that they both use random outcomes. Period.
link to original post

You were claiming that since poker and BJ use a random pre shuffle, and people have figured out proven ways to beat those games(Proven AP methods) then it shouldn't be a surprise that people have figured out a way to beat roulette with non-AP methods.

Yet, you fail to state or understand the obvious reason people can beat those games. You fail to state or understand the fact that there's math and logic behind that proof. Most people understand why those games can give someone an advantage, despite an initial random shuffle. No one who is logical, understands mathematics, and is sane can understand how it's possible. Guess why...because it isn't possible,

You want to use examples only when you believe it adds credibility to your method SYSTEM and ignore them when it's legit debunking your method SYSTEM.

You couldn't have found 2 worst examples.
link to original post

Here is someone using math to show that past outcomes can indeed be used to gain the advantage in roulette. I suppose you think he's full of crap to because he doesn't agree with your opinion.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/37509-my-governor-changed-my-life/17/#post864077
link to original post

I have seen that before, and when browsing I noticed something that made me no longer interested. *See below, the last paragraph.

I'm self-aware enough to know I don't understand everything in that research(I doubt you can either). I haven't a clue what a vector matrix is(sounds like a modern car name).

If someone knew when and how to time their bets then, of course, they would win, but you can't, nor can anyone else.

I have seen too many situations where someone is using fuzzy math, leaving out key factors or it's just not a proper scientific test. Someone inevitably shows some math and logic debunking it.

And there's this...
* "This study, however, has a flaw, the simulation of the Markov chain is done using R. The
results from this analysis study would have been stronger and more convincing if the simulation
is done in the actual game."