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rawtuff
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September 22nd, 2022 at 6:31:29 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: rawtuff

Quote: EvenBob

After everybody has made their bets the dealer throws this big switch on the wall and it selects 5 different numbers that have huge payouts and if you bet on one of those numbers you can win 100 times your bet 300 times your bet whatever.
link to original post



What? You can flat bet all the numbers every spin and make a killing. Another misunderstood wager?
link to original post

The non-boosted inside bet single numbers pay 29:1. Other inside bets also pay short.
link to original post



Ah, i see. So it's a sucker version then, probably adds to the HA on the inside bets overall?
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Johnzimbo
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:06:39 AM permalink
Your first wager of a session is how many units to win one unit?
darkoz
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:34:45 AM permalink
Quote: Johnzimbo

Your first wager of a session is how many units to win one unit?
link to original post



Asked and answered.

He refused to say actual dollars amount.

Some crap about no one believing him.

He insists on using the term units.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
SOOPOO
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:40:09 AM permalink
Quote: Johnzimbo

Your first wager of a session is how many units to win one unit?
link to original post

. This he has been clear about. He bets one unit to win one unit because he only bets on ‘even chance’ bets. He has also said if he loses the first bet he does NOT martingale, but rather, he just wins the next two one unit bets!
JimRockford
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:51:17 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Past spins however can influence your opinion of what might happen in future spins. Let me give you an extreme example. The wheel just produced 25 Reds in a row. Would black be a good bet at this point even though these are independent events and theoretically the next hundred spins could all be red. Of course black would be a good bet because from personal experience we already know that 25 Reds in a row is a huge anomaly. You can go your entire life and not see it.
link to original post


Clearly this makes sense to you. You offer it as a hypothetical that you presume we will all agree on. But I don’t agree. After 25, or 100 reds in a row I have no reason to prefer black over red. Independent means just that. If it’s random it’s unpredictable. If it’s predictable it’s not random. That’s why this thread will go on for a few hundred pages. We’ll never see this the same way.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 9:17:36 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Johnzimbo

Your first wager of a session is how many units to win one unit?
link to original post

. This he has been clear about. He bets one unit to win one unit because he only bets on ‘even chance’ bets. He has also said if he loses the first bet he does NOT martingale, but rather, he just wins the next two one unit bets!
link to original post



No, I keep betting till I am one unit ahead which could take 3 bets total or five bets total or seven bets total but it never takes more than seven usually and that only happened once.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 9:20:50 AM permalink
Quote: JimRockford


Clearly this makes sense to you. You offer it as a hypothetical that you presume we will all agree on. But I don’t agree. After 25, or 100 reds in a row I have no reason to prefer black over red. Independent means just that. If it’s random it’s unpredictable. If it’s predictable it’s not random. That’s why this thread will go on for a few hundred pages. We’ll never see this the same way.
link to original post



Predictable is a squishy word that's why I never use it. I prefer educated guessing. Leave the predictions to the weather people and they still get it wrong.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 9:29:17 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

You actually wouldn't have to do any traveling if wanted to get inventive."
link to original post
link to original post



In the United States you have to live in that state to play. I'm assuming the same is true for Canada you have to be actually in Canada, am I wrong? And worldwide there are not that many casinos that accept American players and have live roulette. In the United States they verify where your computer is every time you login and VPN's don't work to try and fool them.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrV
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:02:56 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Right now I'm thrilled to be able to pay my bills playing roulette. All my bills including property taxes and the snow plow guy. I love going into the township office on July 1st and paying my summer property taxes in cash.



Indeed?
"What, me worry?"
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:19:17 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

You actually wouldn't have to do any traveling if wanted to get inventive."
link to original post
link to original post



In the United States you have to live in that state to play. I'm assuming the same is true for Canada you have to be actually in Canada, am I wrong? And worldwide there are not that many casinos that accept American players and have live roulette. In the United States they verify where your computer is every time you login and VPN's don't work to try and fool them.
link to original post

It all depends on the casino as to what they require. The U.S.-regulated casinos require geolocation, as you already know, places like Bovada(not regulated) don't.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:26:45 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It all depends on the casino as to what they require. The U.S.-regulated casinos require geolocation, as you already know, places like Bovada(not regulated) don't.
link to original post



I play at Bovada everyday but those kind of casinos outside the United States are few and far between. And they use Bitcoin which is a total pain in the ass. All the casinos in Michigan use PayPal with instantaneous deposit and withdraw.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:29:30 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

. Leave the predictions to the weather people and they still get it wrong.
link to original post

If you would only share you pattern recognition method with them. It might even save countless lives.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:46:22 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: EvenBob

. Leave the predictions to the weather people and they still get it wrong.
link to original post

If you would only share you pattern recognition method with them. It might even save countless lives.
link to original post



Maybe I'm so good I can save the entire world with my stupid roulette method. Win all kinds of prizes be super rich cure diseases. Whatever.. It's a roulette method that lets me win more often then I lose, big deal who cares.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
darkoz
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:51:47 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

It all depends on the casino as to what they require. The U.S.-regulated casinos require geolocation, as you already know, places like Bovada(not regulated) don't.
link to original post



I play at Bovada everyday but those kind of casinos outside the United States are few and far between. And they use Bitcoin which is a total pain in the ass. All the casinos in Michigan use PayPal with instantaneous deposit and withdraw.
link to original post



Delicious irony!

The guy who could get rich with a pattern recognition system at Roulette is prevented from doing so because he thinks Bitcoin is like beanie babies.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
OnceDear
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:03:37 AM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: rawtuff

Quote: EvenBob

After everybody has made their bets the dealer throws this big switch on the wall and it selects 5 different numbers that have huge payouts and if you bet on one of those numbers you can win 100 times your bet 300 times your bet whatever.
link to original post



What? You can flat bet all the numbers every spin and make a killing. Another misunderstood wager?
link to original post



It selects 1 to 5 numbers. Odds on struck numbers can be 50x to 500x. All breakdowns of the game I could find show it is Single 0 Roulette so I would be very interested in a breakdown of EV and if flat betting every number was a good idea.
link to original post

The optimal RTP on inside bets of the evolution version, I'm familiar with is 97.1%
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:03:48 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf

It all depends on the casino as to what they require. The U.S.-regulated casinos require geolocation, as you already know, places like Bovada(not regulated) don't.
link to original post



I play at Bovada everyday but those kind of casinos outside the United States are few and far between. And they use Bitcoin which is a total pain in the ass. All the casinos in Michigan use PayPal with instantaneous deposit and withdraw.
link to original post

I don't know how many Bovada-like casinos are out there, I don't even want to guess, but I can probably think of 20 off the top of my head, but I really don't take note to live dealers.

I'm not sure why you think BTC is such a pain in the ass. With such a significant edge, you should only ever have to buy it once. If you don't like the BTC fluctuations, simply convert your Bankroll /cashouts to tether coins or your cash balance... until needed. Use your Michigan profile to pay your bills etc. Use all the other available casinos to rack up savings for whatever you may want.

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Perhaps help some other abused animals.

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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:09:36 AM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: rawtuff

Quote: EvenBob

After everybody has made their bets the dealer throws this big switch on the wall and it selects 5 different numbers that have huge payouts and if you bet on one of those numbers you can win 100 times your bet 300 times your bet whatever.
link to original post



What? You can flat bet all the numbers every spin and make a killing. Another misunderstood wager?
link to original post



It selects 1 to 5 numbers. Odds on struck numbers can be 50x to 500x. All breakdowns of the game I could find show it is Single 0 Roulette so I would be very interested in a breakdown of EV and if flat betting every number was a good idea.
link to original post

The optimal RTP on inside bets of the evolution version, I'm familiar with is 97.1%
link to original post

It's a breakeven game off the top if you simply ignore green like Bob does. What's a measly 2.9% when you have an 80% hit rate?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:10:58 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf



I'm not sure why you think BTC is such a pain in the ass. With such a significant edge, you should only ever have to buy it once.
https://pvtimes.com/uncategorized/more-than-300-dogs-seized-in-animal-cruelty-investigation-112381/
link to original post



I have actually never had to buy it even once because when they switched over to bitcoin I already had money in Bovada but every time I want to withdraw money I have to do it in Bitcoin and it's a pain in the ass. Meaning the total process. With PayPal I don't have to do anything and I can even pay my bills with my PayPal debit card which I do.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:12:44 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

It's a breakeven game off the top if you simply ignore green like Bob does. What's a measly 2.9% when you have an 80% hit rate?
link to original post



I haven't had a chance to look at it yet I discovered it at 2 a.m. I haven't even played it yet. I will do so later today probably tonight I got way too much to do today working on my garage.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
JimRockford
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:12:51 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: JimRockford


Clearly this makes sense to you. You offer it as a hypothetical that you presume we will all agree on. But I don’t agree. After 25, or 100 reds in a row I have no reason to prefer black over red. Independent means just that. If it’s random it’s unpredictable. If it’s predictable it’s not random. That’s why this thread will go on for a few hundred pages. We’ll never see this the same way.
link to original post



Predictable is a squishy word that's why I never use it. I prefer educated guessing. Leave the predictions to the weather people and they still get it wrong.
link to original post


My point is that there in never any logical reason to have the slightest preference between red-black, odd-even, or high-low. That is what I mean by unpredictable.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:16:54 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf



I'm not sure why you think BTC is such a pain in the ass. With such a significant edge, you should only ever have to buy it once.
https://pvtimes.com/uncategorized/more-than-300-dogs-seized-in-animal-cruelty-investigation-112381/
link to original post



I have actually never had to buy it even once because when they switched over to bitcoin I already had money in Bovada but every time I want to withdraw money I have to do it in Bitcoin and it's a pain in the ass. Meaning the total process. With PayPal I don't have to do anything and I can even pay my bills with my PayPal debit card which I do.
link to original post


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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 12:08:31 PM permalink
Quote: JimRockford


My point is that there in never any logical reason to have the slightest preference between red-black, odd-even, or high-low. That is what I mean by unpredictable.
link to original post



You can only speak for yourself of course, you weren't speaking for me. I'm really good at knowing when not to bet and occasionally I find a good place to bet and that's what it's all about. The outcomes in roulette move from total chaos into a kind of semi chaos and that's what you have to look for. When its kind of chaotic it can be exploited. Or maybe it's always chaotic and my brain just see's what it considers patterns. Either way it's still exploitable.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 12:12:30 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf


Mastercard Crypto Card Program - Crypto Debit Card
Ad·
https://www.mastercard.us/
Enabling real-time use of digital currency for everyday transactions across 90M+ locations. Select the right card program for your goals, whether prepaid, debit, credit, or rewards.
link to original post



Whatever, I'm not going to go through all that just for one casino. I don't play there nearly as much as I used to since Michigan opened up because Bovada only spins 50 outcomes an hour I would prefer the 90 spends an hour I get in the Michigan casinos.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
JimRockford
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September 22nd, 2022 at 1:37:50 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: JimRockford


My point is that there in never any logical reason to have the slightest preference between red-black, odd-even, or high-low. That is what I mean by unpredictable.
link to original post



You can only speak for yourself of course, you weren't speaking for me. I'm really good at knowing when not to bet and occasionally I find a good place to bet and that's what it's all about. The outcomes in roulette move from total chaos into a kind of semi chaos and that's what you have to look for. When its kind of chaotic it can be exploited. Or maybe it's always chaotic and my brain just see's what it considers patterns. Either way it's still exploitable.
link to original post


I’m not speaking for anyone. I’m talking about the nature of randomness. By definition, random outcomes cannot be anticipated*. As I said we’ll never agree on that.

*is “anticipated” that less squishy than “predicted”?
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 2:27:39 PM permalink
Quote: JimRockford


I’m not speaking for anyone. I’m talking about the nature of randomness. By definition, random outcomes cannot be anticipated*. As I said we’ll never agree on that.

*is “anticipated” that less squishy than “predicted”?
link to original post



Yet in random outcome games like HoldEm Poker and blackjack ways were found to get around random outcomes and make a profit. Why everybody assumes it can't be done in roulette is a mystery. Yes yes I know they are three entirely different games but so what. Random Is Random. Either you can beat random games or you can't and you obviously can because we know we can do it with poker and blackjack. There are certain places in all these games where they are vulnerable.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
JimRockford
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September 22nd, 2022 at 2:33:40 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: JimRockford


I’m not speaking for anyone. I’m talking about the nature of randomness. By definition, random outcomes cannot be anticipated*. As I said we’ll never agree on that.

*is “anticipated” that less squishy than “predicted”?
link to original post



Yet in random outcome games like HoldEm Poker and blackjack ways were found to get around random outcomes and make a profit. Why everybody assumes it can't be done in roulette is a mystery. Yes yes I know they are three entirely different games but so what. Random Is Random. Either you can beat random games or you can't and you obviously can because we know we can do it with poker and blackjack. There are certain places in all these games where they are vulnerable.
link to original post


Asked and answered. I’m out. Good luck.
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
MrV
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September 22nd, 2022 at 2:50:36 PM permalink
Senility...hallucinations...fabricated thoughts...they say it can sneak up on a man and catch him unawares.

I'd say "crying shame," but that would be a damned lie.
"What, me worry?"
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 3:30:54 PM permalink
I'm really looking forward playing this new wheel tonight because that would give me an extra wheel to look at everyday. I'm not terrifically optimistic but my play now is way more sophisticated than it was 10 years ago the last time I tried an airball wheel. It seems to me their main concern will be on those big payout numbers and not on the even chance outside bets. It had a fair number of people playing it even at 2 in the morning on a Wednesday night. You can tell because a list of winners shows up after every spin and it lists their name and how much they won. If you Google top live gaming platforms in the world Evolution and Playtech are always number one and number two and they sell their services to hundreds and hundreds and of casinos.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Gandler
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September 22nd, 2022 at 3:45:09 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: JimRockford


I’m not speaking for anyone. I’m talking about the nature of randomness. By definition, random outcomes cannot be anticipated*. As I said we’ll never agree on that.

*is “anticipated” that less squishy than “predicted”?
link to original post



Yet in random outcome games like HoldEm Poker and blackjack ways were found to get around random outcomes and make a profit. Why everybody assumes it can't be done in roulette is a mystery. Yes yes I know they are three entirely different games but so what. Random Is Random. Either you can beat random games or you can't and you obviously can because we know we can do it with poker and blackjack. There are certain places in all these games where they are vulnerable.
link to original post



Poker and Blackjack are not random outcome games. Every card that is dealt changes the probability of the next card dealt (based on remaining cards that are not accounted for). Roulette is a fresh start (so to speak) every spin. The ways to beat blackjack (and poker to some extent) are ways that attempt to negate (even if slightly) randomness.
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 4:51:58 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler



Poker and Blackjack are not random outcome games. Every card that is dealt changes the probability of the next card dealt (based on remaining cards that are not accounted for). Roulette is a fresh start (so to speak) every spin. The ways to beat blackjack (and poker to some extent) are ways that attempt to negate (even if slightly) randomness.
link to original post



"Are the results of each round in blackjack essentially independent events? Even when you are counting, each hand is a random event, with a small correlation with the count of the previous hands." and the same is true in any shuffled deck like poker or Baccarat. Each card is random and is an independent event. Just like every spin of the roulette wheel is an independent event. Just because they are beaten using different methods does not take away from the fact that they are random.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Gandler
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September 22nd, 2022 at 5:10:57 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Gandler



Poker and Blackjack are not random outcome games. Every card that is dealt changes the probability of the next card dealt (based on remaining cards that are not accounted for). Roulette is a fresh start (so to speak) every spin. The ways to beat blackjack (and poker to some extent) are ways that attempt to negate (even if slightly) randomness.
link to original post



"Are the results of each round in blackjack essentially independent events? Even when you are counting, each hand is a random event, with a small correlation with the count of the previous hands." and the same is true in any shuffled deck like poker or Baccarat. Each card is random and is an independent event. Just like every spin of the roulette wheel is an independent event. Just because they are beaten using different methods does not take away from the fact that they are random.
link to original post



But, each hand of BJ (or any card game) is not an independent event, even within the same hand, every card that is dealt/burned changes the probability of the next card (which can influence your action when it gets to you).

A roulette wheel hitting ten reds in a row does not mean there are less reds and more blacks remaining for the next spin. Even on a biased wheel -which I know you say is not your method- each spin is an independent event (it may just generally influence which area of the wheel is more probable). But, it shows the difference between prior events mattering and not mattering.

In roulette, even in +EV play, prior events never matter (unless you are using them to gauge a bias, but even so, they are still independent events).
darkoz
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September 22nd, 2022 at 5:33:15 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler



But, each hand of BJ (or any card game) is not an independent event, even within the same hand, every card that is dealt/burned changes the probability of the next card (which can influence your action when it gets to you).

A roulette wheel hitting ten reds in a row does not mean there are less reds and more blacks remaining for the next spin. Even on a biased wheel -which I know you say is not your method- each spin is an independent event (it may just generally influence which area of the wheel is more probable). But, it shows the difference between prior events mattering and not mattering.

In roulette, even in +EV play, prior events never matter (unless you are using them to gauge a bias, but even so, they are still independent events).



I think that's EB method.

If he sees three reds in a row, he subtracts them from the wheel so he only has 15 reds to worry about.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 6:09:25 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler



But, each hand of BJ (or any card game) is not an independent event, even within the same hand, every card that is dealt/burned changes the probability of the next card (which can influence your action when it gets to you).

A roulette wheel hitting ten reds in a row does not mean there are less reds and more blacks remaining for the next spin. Even on a biased wheel -which I know you say is not your method- each spin is an independent event (it may just generally influence which area of the wheel is more probable). But, it shows the difference between prior events mattering and not mattering.

In roulette, even in +EV play, prior events never matter (unless you are using them to gauge a bias, but even so, they are still independent events).
link to original post



Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event. That's the point of shuffling. Because of this Blackjack was considered impossible to beat until counting came along and shocked Las Vegas right down to it's toes.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 6:30:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: AxelWolf


Mastercard Crypto Card Program - Crypto Debit Card
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Whatever, I'm not going to go through all that just for one casino. I don't play there nearly as much as I used to since Michigan opened up because Bovada only spins 50 outcomes an hour I would prefer the 90 spends an hour I get in the Michigan casinos.
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It's not just one casino, as I said, I can think of about 20 off the top of my head, I'm not looking for live dealers online so I don't take note, there could be as many as 1000. There are lists and resources like LCB.org that can help filter that information.

You should be scanning as many as possible at once.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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September 22nd, 2022 at 6:57:39 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Gandler



But, each hand of BJ (or any card game) is not an independent event, even within the same hand, every card that is dealt/burned changes the probability of the next card (which can influence your action when it gets to you).

A roulette wheel hitting ten reds in a row does not mean there are less reds and more blacks remaining for the next spin. Even on a biased wheel -which I know you say is not your method- each spin is an independent event (it may just generally influence which area of the wheel is more probable). But, it shows the difference between prior events mattering and not mattering.

In roulette, even in +EV play, prior events never matter (unless you are using them to gauge a bias, but even so, they are still independent events).
link to original post



Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event. That's the point of shuffling. Because of this Blackjack was considered impossible to beat until counting came along and shocked Las Vegas right down to it's toes.
link to original post

It didn't take that long for people to figure out blackjack once it became popular.

You might find this interesting. It's as if they predicted an EvenBob.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-high-stakes-history-of-card-counting-and-its-uncertain-future#:~:text=Card%20counting%20as%20a%20process,joke%2C%20as%20the%20Four%20Horsemen.
"What was Thorp’s key finding? “Blackjack is different from other card games because sequential hands are dealt out of a randomizing device whose composition changes in an observable way from round to round,” says Axelrad. In other words, the outcome of one hand of blackjack has an effect on the following hand: in a game of blackjack using a single deck of cards, for example, if the Ace of Hearts is dealt in one hand, the Ace of Hearts will not be dealt in the next hand. (Providing the dealer doesn’t shuffle in between hands.)

That’s highly unusual for casino games. In roulette, for example, each spin is totally independent of the spin that came before and the spin that came after. You can scowl and study roulette all you want; you’re not going to learn anything."


Of course it couldn’t be less random, which is not something casinos want to happen at their tables.

One of the most common techniques casinos use to thwart card counters is by repeated shuffling. Upon each shuffle, when all cards are hauled back and randomized, a card counter’s carefully maintained count becomes worthless; he or she must start over at zero. Shuffles are done at set intervals (called “shoes”) mandated by the casino, and the percentage of cards dealt before the shuffle is of key interest to card counters. That percentage is known as “penetration,” or “pen,” and card counters rely on very high penetrations.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gandler
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:01:40 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Gandler



But, each hand of BJ (or any card game) is not an independent event, even within the same hand, every card that is dealt/burned changes the probability of the next card (which can influence your action when it gets to you).

A roulette wheel hitting ten reds in a row does not mean there are less reds and more blacks remaining for the next spin. Even on a biased wheel -which I know you say is not your method- each spin is an independent event (it may just generally influence which area of the wheel is more probable). But, it shows the difference between prior events mattering and not mattering.

In roulette, even in +EV play, prior events never matter (unless you are using them to gauge a bias, but even so, they are still independent events).
link to original post



Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event. That's the point of shuffling. Because of this Blackjack was considered impossible to beat until counting came along and shocked Las Vegas right down to it's toes.
link to original post



No, its not, because every card that is removed from the deck impacts the remaining composition of the deck.

Blackjack was discovered to be possible to beat precisely because it is not a game of independent events. The whole principle of changing the edge of blackjack is formed around prior events.

This is not possible in roulette. Even if you have a consistent edge in roulette whether it be by a bias wheel, dealer, or some physics computer that can predict where the ball will land before betting ends, each event is still independent of the prior. Having an edge does not make an event an independent event.
Dieter
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:06:08 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post



No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
May the cards fall in your favor.
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:14:06 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post



No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post



So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Dieter
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:47:01 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post



No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post



So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
link to original post



The shuffle randomly determines which sequence of cards can be dealt.

You cannot have a pair of J♦'s in a single deck game dealt from a common pack. There is only one J♦, it cannot be dealt twice between shuffles.

If it were otherwise, I could agree with you.
May the cards fall in your favor.
darkoz
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September 22nd, 2022 at 7:49:26 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post



No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post



So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
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Why don't you find people with mathematical backgrounds to quote. I doubt you can which is why you already are stating you see no point to it.

If I knew of people whose quotes backed me up and we're legit sources I would be posting them as my evidence.

Not asking what the point is
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 8:10:48 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post



No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post



So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
link to original post



The shuffle randomly determines which sequence of cards can be dealt.

You cannot have a pair of J♦'s in a single deck game dealt from a common pack. There is only one J♦, it cannot be dealt twice between shuffles.

If it were otherwise, I could agree with you.
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"..all variants of poker, individuals compete for an amount of money or chips contributed by the players themselves (called the pot). Because the cards are dealt randomly and outside the control of the players, each player attempts to control the amount of money in the pot based on the hand they are holding,[1] and on their prediction as to what their opponents may be holding and how they might behave"

Wikipedia
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Wiggins
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camaplrawtuffOnceDear
September 22nd, 2022 at 8:13:03 PM permalink
People need to stop arguing with this delusional man. We all know he is either lying to us or lying to himself (probably the latter). I get it, it's slightly infuriating to hear him boast about all his accomplishments and act like he is superior to everyone else. Just disengage and let the thread die. It's an embarrassment to this forum.
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 8:16:22 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Dieter

Quote: EvenBob

Every card coming from a well shuffled deck is a random independent event.
link to original post



No.

The shuffle is the random event; the deal is a dependent sequence of fixed events.
link to original post



So now I'll go find and quote people who say it is independent and random. What's the point nobody's going to win this argument.
link to original post



Why don't you find people with mathematical backgrounds to quote. I doubt you can which is why you already are stating you see no point to it.

If I knew of people whose quotes backed me up and we're legit sources I would be posting them as my evidence.

Not asking what the point is
link to original post



I cannot believe anybody thinks a shuffled deck of cards is not random. What do you think the purpose of the shuffle is? The purpose is to randomize the deck so you don't know where anything is. So you can figure it out later that doesn't mean it's not random. You know how to win at poker? Do a non-random shuffle it's called cheating. Do you think they use shuffle machines to make the decks nonrandom? Shuffle machines make the decks as random as possible
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 8:19:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wiggins

People need to stop arguing with this delusional man. We all know he is either lying to us or lying to himself (probably the latter). I get it, it's slightly infuriating to hear him boast about all his accomplishments and act like he is superior to everyone else. Just disengage and let the thread die. It's an embarrassment to this forum.
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LOL! Thanks for the comic relief.. You people asked for this and now I'm giving it to you. Last year all I heard was I should be banned because I was always talking about my roulette method but never gave any details. So now I'm here giving nothing but details and you're still not happy. Make up your minds. Just because you don't understand it does it mean it doesn't work. Duh
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
SOOPOO
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OnceDear
September 22nd, 2022 at 8:41:02 PM permalink
Quote: Wiggins

People need to stop arguing with this delusional man. We all know he is either lying to us or lying to himself (probably the latter). I get it, it's slightly infuriating to hear him boast about all his accomplishments and act like he is superior to everyone else. Just disengage and let the thread die. It's an embarrassment to this forum.
link to original post



Of course. There is NO WAY EB is doing the things he says he is doing. There is NO REASON to believe a single one of his roulette posts. NO REASON to believe he actually plays roulette. If he does, NO REASON to believe he wins his magic 80%. There is NO REASON to believe that he is doing ANYTHING OTHER than trolling the forum. He can of course post ANYTHING he wants. He just wasn’t savvy enough to post something that even approached believability. Tell us you win 51% of the time and we could have believed he was lucky.

Why would anyone even believe EB actually plays roulette for money? Given the ludicrous nature of his main claim, why would anyone believe ANY of his posts?

(I do believe he eats the food in his pictures)
Wiggins
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darkoz
September 22nd, 2022 at 8:43:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Duh



This is the infuriating part I was referring to. I am too weak to simply ignore it.

The only comic relief in this thread is you. You are the donkey in the fable linked earlier in this thread. I hope you get the help you need (for the sake of your wife and cats).
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 9:17:05 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO


Why would anyone even believe EB actually plays roulette for money?
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I love how everyone here is an expert on what I do yet not one single person here has ever tried it. Soopoo, you are a doctor, would you have been one of the other doctors in the 19th century to lock the doctor who discovered washing hands in between operations in a mental institution? Simply because they did not want to believe his claims. Giving your stance against me I guess you would have locked him up because you think you know more than I do about this and you've never done it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 9:19:21 PM permalink
Quote: Wiggins

Quote: EvenBob

Duh



This is the infuriating part I was referring to. I am too weak to simply ignore it.

The only comic relief in this thread is you. You are the donkey in the fable linked earlier in this thread. I hope you get the help you need (for the sake of your wife and cats).
link to original post



That's why I started this thread so I can get help. Help in improving my game and it's working. Nobody wants to ask questions everybody just wants to express they're uneducated opinions. Like they tried this and they know firsthand that it doesn't work when that's not the truth at all. You've never tried any of it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:05:07 PM permalink
First report on playing the lightning roulette wheel on the Evolution platform. Not trying to make one unit only so I'm playing differently. I'm making more bets based on what I know about pattern and trends. I bet virtually 5 times bet with real money 5 times and then bet five more times virtually. I ended up getting 13 right and two wrong which is really much higher than expectation. There was lots and lots of patterns to choose from and they were all going my way. This is probably a fluke and will play again later, I was expecting a 65% hit rate and this was much better than that. This wheel produces 80 spins per hour because the ball spends a little more time in the track then it does when it's thrown by a human.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrV
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September 22nd, 2022 at 10:43:12 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I ended up getting 13 right and two wrong which is really much higher than expectation.



A legend in his own mind.

Who needs math?

Not EB, the god of roulette...

All hail, all marvel at his brilliance!
"What, me worry?"
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