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MDawg
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July 13th, 2019 at 9:11:16 PM permalink
I'll be in a 100K Baccarat invitational tournament pretty soon. I've been in more than a few Bacc. and BJ tourneys and I know it's pretty much all about luck, but are there any particular strategies for Bacc. tournament play (other than, "stay hydrated")?

For example in a BJ tourney I'll split tens do crazy things to get as much money as possible out there that I wouldn't normally do at a regular BJ table. Is there any move equivalent to "violating basic strategy because you're in a BJ tourney" for a Baccarat tourney? I don't think there is but just wondering.

In a way though, why it's so easy to lose all your chips - quickly - at a Bacc. tournament gets back to my assertion that the tiny house edge has little to do with why Baccarat players lose their whole bankrolls so quickly - it's uncanny the way a guy who is on a losing streak will barely get 1/4 hands right in Baccarat for hand after hand, while during hot streaks I myself have gotten as many as say 11 out of 12 hands in a row right, even with a complicated pattern in play.

Within a dozen or even half dozen hands most Bacc. tournament players are skint, losing far more than the expected theoretical loss. A Bacc. tourney isn't about patience isn't about waiting for the good shoe it's the equivalent of trying too hard to win a certain amount in thirty minutes before you have to go to dinner, and we all know how that usually goes and why time limit gambling isn't a great idea.

Let's say there are fifty Bacc. tournament players. So right off the bat you have a 1/50 chance of winning. Now, take the tie bet for example, pays 8:1 - terrible house advantage, but say you put your whole stack on it on the first hand. What are the odds that you'll hit and then have so many chips that you'd practically have to try hard to lose the tourney from there on, versus that you'll not hit and go bust first hand versus the odds that you'll win the tournament at all anyway, if you just plod along without taking such an absurd risk.

What about same scenario with a hundred Bacc. tournament players, which is probably closer to what I'll be facing.

Surely some of this may be calculated?
Last edited by: MDawg on Jul 13, 2019
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MaxPen
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ForagerAxelWolf
July 13th, 2019 at 9:15:40 PM permalink
Why bother when that's a couple hands for you? Hit and run, stay hydrated, and roll over your markers.
MDawg
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July 13th, 2019 at 9:30:29 PM permalink
Uhh, okay. I actually read this post of yours. My mistake to have done so, but as long as I read it:

You have been in an invitational tournament before? Or maybe not.

You don't play with a buy in, it's an invitational, it costs nothing to play. You have nothing to lose (except for losing itself).
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AxelWolf
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July 13th, 2019 at 10:34:09 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I'll be in a 100K Baccarat invitational tournament pretty soon.

are you referring to the one at the Cosmopolitan in a few days?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
BleedingChipsSlowly
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MDawg
July 14th, 2019 at 12:01:41 AM permalink
I took a shot at looking up some basic odds for you, and I quickly discovered using the tie bet in baccarat tournaments is a common strategy. But not on the first hand.

Here is a a detailed read of one playerís tournament and the strategy he used: Final Hand, Secret Bet: Betting on 'Tie'

That article alludes that Wong has written a strategy for baccarat tournament play without citing a reference. You might want to find that.

Also, this article is the first in a basic strategy series which also covers using the tie bet: How to win a baccarat tournament part A: general concepts

To your OP, you have a 9.44% chance of hitting that 8:1 all-in tie bet on the first had. *IF* that bet is allowed. But that doesnít seem to be the best strategy.
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MDawg
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July 14th, 2019 at 12:08:45 AM permalink
It's been a while since I've been in a Bacc. tournament so I don't recall exactly how the limits (such as on the tie) work with reference to your starting chips. So yes, you're right betting it all on the first hand on tie or anything else might not be an option.

I just recall the last Bacc. tournament I was in I was having too good a time and I thought I was winning but then the ones who won (1st and 2nd place) ended up with far more chips than I would have thought possible, so looking back, for that tournament anyway, I played too conservatively I wasn't really even in the running.

Okay let's say 100 players so theoretically 1% chance of winning, if there is a 9.44% chance of tie on first hand and hitting it with all your chips ASSURED victory wouldn't this be a good bet then? But, you might not be allowed to make the bet for all your chips and it might be wrong to state that hitting it with all your chips assures victory anyway.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jul 14, 2019
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MDawg
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July 14th, 2019 at 12:20:33 AM permalink
Reading through those links you provided now. Thanks!
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kubikulann
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July 14th, 2019 at 4:18:42 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

You don't play with a buy in, it's an invitational, it costs nothing to play. You have nothing to lose (except for losing itself).

In order to calculate a strategy, we need more info on the rules.

- Is is there an initial bankroll? (I guess same for every participant)
- Are there min and/or max bets? Can you opt out of a hand/ a shoe?
- Is there a vigorish? Is it American (5% on banker wins) or European (half pay on Banker winning with 6)?
- What is the final goal? Max money? Max # of wins?

( Technically I would not call it a ĎítournamentĎí since each participant is playing independently against the house, not against one another. More a Ďícompetitioníí. )
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
beachbumbabs
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July 14th, 2019 at 6:13:59 AM permalink
STRICTLY my opinion.

Depending on how many hands you get.

How many hands do you get, anyway?

Assuming you get 20. No table maximum.

Use 1/4 of your chips on hand 1. Either banker or player, as you like.

Win, positive Martingale. Chase the streak for 3 more hands.

Bank 1/2 of that, bet the other half and positive Martingale 3 times. Repeat until the other side wins.

Chase that side's streak as above.

3 is a very lucky number in baccarat. Since I don't believe in systems, this all depends on luck. 3/4 is big good luck over bad luck. So might as well grab your joss by the horns and ride that bull.

Lose, reset with next 1/4 br. Bet what last won. Adjust br upward if you have winnings.

If with 4 hands left, you're not way up the leaderboard, bet 1/4 remaining br on tie. Positive martingale any winnings along with the next 1/4.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MDawg
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July 14th, 2019 at 8:59:20 AM permalink
Info on rules:
The last Baccarat tournament at this property was during my last stay earlier this year, the one where we ended up staying nearly three weeks in Vegas between two different properties. I didn't know about the tournament and also didn't expect to still be in town when it happened, just one of those trips where I kept winning didn't want to leave. Anyway, when I found out there was a Bacc. tournament I found out the very day before it was about to start asked to be put into it but it was too late was what they said. Also these days it's not like I'm a monster player like in my past, so I don't have that level of clout.

But this time the invite came in via email just a few days ago, and it just so happens that the start date of tournament will definitely be during the stay I already booked, so this time I am in.

Anyway unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the last tournament rules or play, even though I was playing regular midi Bacc. for money in the same pit where the tournament was going off. But judging from the number of tables they set aside, it didn't look like a huge number of players which is why I estimate 100 invitees. The one piece of info I do know for sure is that the winner gets paid in promotional chips - the winner from earlier this year was a lady who sat next to me on a real Bacc. table the day after the tournament ended, and she was using those promotional chips to play. She was debating between playing "for real" with them, to try to win big, or just placing them on bank/player at same time to "rinse" them for a guaranteed close to half payoff.

There was also a $500K Bacc. tournament at a different property that just happened and I received an email invite for that one too, but wasn't going to be in Vegas in time for it. Also I am sure that one had more entries more players.

I might call my host later today to ask more about this upcoming one but he is old school he doesn't even get into stuff like that, such as tournament rules, the only advice he ever gives is "Win some money!"

The last Bacc. tournament I played in was pre-hiatus (decade long hiatus) so it was a while ago. That was played on a Grand Bacc. table so something like 14 players at a time, and then the winner (or maybe it was the top two) went on to the next table. This Baccarat tournament coming up will be on midi Bacc. tables so there will be less players, about half as many, per table to compete against, but the basics of that just one or two persons move on per table I assume will be the same. I wish I could remember how many hands we play. I suppose in theory everyone at the table could go bust and then no one would move up from that table.

I do also recall that what you did how much you bet depended somewhat on what the others were betting, you were always trying to bet strategically to try to make sure that no matter the outcome you ended up with more than they did.

The last Bacc. tournament I was at I played somewhat conservatively and my chip stack went up what I thought was a lot. There were more than a few hands when players would bet against each other and I won most of those. But then when I got to the final table there were players who had far more chips than I, so I was disadvantaged and then I just lost :-) (didn't lose all my chips, but I didn't place in the top spots). But it was fun and cost nothing to play.

And now that I think about it, there definitely were limits to how much you could bet on bank/player and on tie, and I am sure it was proportionate to where you couldn't win much more on a tie than the max payoff on bank/player than the same ratios as at a regular non-tournament Bacc. table. But back then, max was $15K at a regular table with $3K max on tie, meaning you could win 60% more on a tie bet than bank/player as far as max payoff. (These days limit is $20K on bank/player with max tie bet $6K, meaning you may win 240% more on a tie than a standard bank/player bet.)

So anyway, if the Bacc. tournament is like a regular table as far as ratios, the max payoff on a tie might be 240% higher than the max bank/player payoff.
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MDawg
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July 16th, 2019 at 6:56:32 AM permalink
I confirmed that the number of entrants is under a 100, close to what I thought. In that there are six prizes, that gives a just under 7% chance of winning Something, which isn't bad, especially in that I haven't had a losing trip at this casino yet so entry is free as may be.

I joked with my host's assistant that "I better start practicing" and she thought I was serious - so a bit later I told her, I was joking about practicing.
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MDawg
July 16th, 2019 at 7:20:06 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg


I joked with my host's assistant that "I better start practicing" and she thought I was serious - so a bit later I told her, I was joking about practicing.



Sweet
ChumpChange
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MDawg
July 16th, 2019 at 7:53:30 AM permalink
My home software game would typically have bots start with $10,000 (and the winner gets $10,000 extra at the end), you get 25 hands, only 4 players, and the winner would typically quadruple their starting money. Once in awhile everybody loses and the person who lost the least wins. Since I lose or win my own play money in these tournaments, it's better for me to just try to win a few hands and hope everybody else goes bust betting big on the Ties. People always gonna bet some large amount on the Tie, and they're likely to pull ahead on a win. Think about how you'd bet if you won 3 ties in a row halfway through the tourney.
TigerWu
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MDawg
July 16th, 2019 at 8:14:31 AM permalink
I heard the only "real" strategy at a Baccarat tournament is money management. Something like, you want other people to bet before you do, and you somehow adjust your bet based on their amounts.
MDawg
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July 16th, 2019 at 8:41:17 AM permalink
Yes, the money management goes for Baccarat and gambling in general but figuring when to leave is not always clear.

Most people just listen to that voice in their head that tells them that they could win more, and keep playing until they've lost it all. Even if playing BJ to the card count that doesn't ensure a win (including by getting the boot from the casino for suspected counting in the middle of your play, that puts a stop to all play, winning or losing).

Years of play have taught me what sort of "ahead" is exceptional to where should get the hell out ("it won't get better than this") or if it's just another average Baccarat or BJ shoe / winning event. For example, playing 3K per hand ahead 1K, no I'm not going to even think about stopping. Play 300 per hand ahead 9K, yes I'm stopping, that represents an unusual amount ahead relative to the average bet. At most after getting that far ahead relative to the average bet I'll risk half of my winnings.

For example I played this shoe on a trip earlier this year

and it wasn't a question of if I'd win but how much. Of course I left after that, how could it get any better? But someone else sitting at my table kept playing and this was the same guy who was up about 70K at one point who ended up minus something like -20K for his trip. He did NOT look happy on the last day of his trip. At best, sheepish for blowing it after being up so much.
Last edited by: MDawg on Jul 16, 2019
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MDawg
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August 13th, 2019 at 8:54:35 AM permalink
I'll be gambling most of September. At least that is the plan, checking into each resort and staying as long as the comps last, and then on to the next. My check in and check out dates are never set in stone.

I'll be in this $100K Baccarat tournament mentioned above, and another $100K BJ tournament if still in town. Possibly also a $125K and $250K slot tournament, and another $500K Baccarat and $300K BJ, again dependent on if still in town and at that particular resort at that time.

As I've mentioned before, when I arrive in Vegas I don't want to leave, at least not anytime soon. She wants to leave sooner than I do. Winning, and getting comp'ed? what's not to like but then I guess for someone who does not gamble at all, it gets repetitive.

I won't post a blow by blow though partly because it tends to make me want to be ahead for each session so that I may post a positive report daily, and it's not always like that. On the last trip, just shy of three weeks, there were two days when I was down a fair amount, and one day when I was down not a lot, but some, for part of the day. The end result is what matters - ahead. So I'll probably just come back at some point after returning to earth and normal civilization with a report, although maybe I'll come back to post about the tournaments since there is no pressure there win or lose there is no downside.

Can't always guarantee a win, but can always guarantee a good time!
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MDawg
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September 5th, 2019 at 9:43:15 AM permalink
Been here all week, alternating between mostly BJ also Baccarat average around $500. Each session a winner, although I was down considerably in yesterday's session then rallied ended ahead as usual. Yesterday's Bacc. pit boss, who knows me well from each trip, said, "You're very patient. And know when to get up. We don't see players like you."

Extended the comp'ed suite here, but just until tomorrow we need to move to a different resort tomorrow as my tournament is about to start, and host said, "You're going to keep playing, right?" 😄
Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 5, 2019
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MDawg
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September 7th, 2019 at 11:01:07 AM permalink
Left the first casino a winner, and most everything comp'ed, very smooth sailing over all. Who says leaving sessions a winner means nothing? People who are unsuccessful gamblers, that's who!

Now at the second resort. As far as this Bacc. tournament I am in, they have a silly rule that I'm not feeling like playing into. In order to advance to the semifinals (assuming you get there to begin with), you must have booked at least a $1500. theoretical loss or $5000. actual loss before the tournament begins (it starts today). Now given that we just checked into this resort last night, that's not a small order. In other words, I don't really feel like booking a $100K handle just to qualify for winning this thing. I've never been in a tournament with such a rule before, I mean it's always IMPLIED that the reason they are putting you into the tournament and comp'ing your stay is because they hope you will play, but hoping and forcing are two different things.

I asked if they really intend to enforce this rule even against a good player like me and they said, "Well just be sure to play it won't be a problem." In other words, "YES - we reserve the right" lol.

Booking a $100K handle, even in one session or day, not necessarily a problem, but I want to do it on my terms not theirs. It is when you are under time constraints that mistakes are made and dollars lost.
Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 7, 2019
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MDawg
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September 7th, 2019 at 4:00:27 PM permalink
Made it to the semi finals, I ended up the #1 position end chip count at my table.


The player on my side got far ahead early I was sure he was going to advance, but he killed himself betting against a player run. Once I was ahead comfortably I just watched the other players and bet accordingly to stay one step ahead of them. The others pretty much just ended up going broke on their own while I advanced steadily. And that's often the story of the scene at many tables I gamble at in real life.

Semifinals are in a couple of hours.

I put in enough actual play before the tournament for about a $500. theoretical loss (I won though, I did not lose), and that seems to have done it as far as satisfying the powers that be. The pit boss was saying "unofficially" that they just want to see good faith play, because apparently at the last tournament most everyone who was in it didn't gamble a nickel at the casino that weekend.
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AxelWolf
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September 7th, 2019 at 6:12:43 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

because apparently at the last tournament most everyone who was in it didn't gamble a nickel at the casino that weekend.

They all must have been Advantage players.

And thanks for showing us the watch. I have one that looks just like it sitting in the bottom of a scrap drawer somewhere.... because it's fake.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MDawg
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September 8th, 2019 at 8:50:14 AM permalink
Made it to the finals but not the winner's table, so lost. Still, I advanced almost all the way.

But, I'm real money ahead at both this casino and for all of last week's stay at the other, which is what really matters. Tournament was fun tho. At my finals table this one guy just got so far ahead I couldn't catch him he kept betting just 1000 per hand (at finals table min was 1000 max 35000) once he had his lead, which is exactly what I would have done.
Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 8, 2019
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MDawg
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September 8th, 2019 at 9:02:41 AM permalink
By the way, I have Axel blocked but I was logged out when I noticed his post. The fact that he has no idea what that watch is, which I put in there just because I wanted to block out my name not to show off, tells me more about him than anything he has ever posted. I made the right decision to block his nonsense. Then again I suppose he might be a serious player but know nothing about timepieces, but I doubt it.

https://deployant.com/review-rolex-day-date-platinum/
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MDawg
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August 6th, 2021 at 10:34:23 AM permalink
Thanks to the Wizard for giving tournament strategy advice pursuant to my question at his 8/5/2021 Live Stream.

What was discussed more specifically was Blackjack tournament strategy and:
Essentially, betting small for most of the initial rounds - bide your time, and then powering up perhaps in the last 5 hands of a round, mostly on the basis of what your enemies are doing:
-Keep in mind that the dealer is not the enemy - the other players are. If the dealer is running hot, that's bad for everyone not just for you.
-If behind bet opposite of your enemy, if your enemy bets big, you bet small, if your enemy bets small, you bet big.
If you are in the lead, mimic your enemies, bet the same way as the people trying to catch you.
-Sometimes will need to bet big. Don't be afraid to throw out some big wagers.
-Don't wait until the very last hand to catch up. Make the move when there are about 5 hands left.

The Wizard considers tournament play advantage play for a player betting according to the tournament strategy of playing the other players versus playing the dealer - if apply skill should have a 3X better chance of winning than the average player, which means that if say, 10K of play is needed to gain entrance into the tournament, that a skilled tournament player should have a 3X better chance of winning than the average player, which increases the value of his 10K play to effectively 30K.

If I didn't summarize what the Wizard said correctly, I invite him to correct me.

I am also wondering - in a Baccarat tournament the dealer really isn't your enemy. I mean, there is a winning hand available on each deal versus blackjack where if the dealer turns over a 20 or 21, everyone might lose. I have been in a couple Bacc tournaments recently and actually won! one of them recently, a pretty big win actually, and in that tournament for the most part my strategy was betting opposite of what the other players were betting, and hoping that the shoe would go contrary to what was expected. For the tournament where I won, that worked. For the tournament where I lost, the shoe actually did what was expected, and my contrarian bets didn't advance me past the second round.
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gordonm888
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August 6th, 2021 at 11:24:40 AM permalink
it wan't quite clear from your prior rules description: in a Baccarat tourny do you merely need to come in 1st or second at your table in order to move on to the next stage of the competition, or are players judged by total stack size across multiple tables?
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MDawg
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August 6th, 2021 at 11:31:15 AM permalink
All of the Baccarat or Blackjack tournaments I have been in involve multiple rounds and having to move up to the next round, where you start over with a fresh stack. I've been in tournaments where only 1 player advances out of 5 or 6 players at the table per round, and then I have been in tournaments where as many as 3 out of 5 advance the first round, and then maybe just 2 out of 6 the next round. Just depends on how many players are in the tournament. Also, sometimes you are lucky and your table has less players than the others due to someone's not showing up, or an uneven number of total players in the tournament not exactly divisible by 5 or 6.

Actually I was in this one tournament where on the 1st round there were just two of us, and 1 of us advanced.

The really big tournaments are often over two days, and have more rounds.

Let me add one more thing - entry into these tournaments is free and invitational. However, along the way if you lose a round you may pay to advance. I have never done that - I refuse to give them any cash for that sort of thing.

However, on one blackjack tournament I was in, they gave us the option of buying more chips at certain hands during the round. I did that once because I had too much cash in my wallet (it cost $300. to buy more chips), but after that I decided to stick to my policy of giving them nothing for my entry or continued participation. As I recall buying those chips was a waste because I advanced that particular round anyway, ahead sufficiently more than the sum of those extra chips.
Last edited by: MDawg on Aug 6, 2021
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gordonm888
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August 6th, 2021 at 12:02:33 PM permalink
Some poker tournaments (usually small ones) offer the players "add-ons" where you can buy an extra increment of chips after some number of levels for something like 1/2 the buy-in. Most players seem to pay for these, because stack size is important to how hands are played in poker tournaments.

in poker, busting out of a tournament and then paying to continue with a new starting stack is called a "re-buy," its usually only allowed in early stages of the tournament.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
MDawg
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ChallengedMilly
August 6th, 2021 at 12:09:26 PM permalink
Right, exactly.

I just decided not to do that again for these free tournaments. And you're right, it is offered only for the first few rounds definitely not towards the end.

Another thing I didn't do was negotiate any kind of split with the table when I got to the final round of the Baccarat tournament I won. I just went for it, and it turned out well (for me).

What was funny is that it was my host who made the suggestion, "So, you guys going to negotiate some kind of split for the pot?" when saw that I had made it to the final. It hadn't even occurred to me to do that before.
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MDawg
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August 16th, 2021 at 4:49:06 AM permalink
On the Blackjack tournament I made it only to the second round. First round I followed Wizard's suggested strategy and advanced. Second round some guy was betting tournament max each hand except the last and actually somehow ended up with the highest chip tally. I just kept losing most every hand that round so it wouldn't have mattered much what I did I ended up near the chip bottom.
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MDawg
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ChumpChange
September 1st, 2021 at 9:34:02 AM permalink
I have been in two more blackjack tournaments since mid August, and there are more BJack and Baccarat tournaments coming up.

At least I have resisted the impulse to re-buy into the lower rounds - I have played for free only.

But what I have come up against is players who randomly bet bigger and through sheer luck amass a ton of chips early, thereby negating the effectiveness of the Wizard's proposed strategy of just betting the minimum until the final five hands. For example on one of the recent BlackJack tournaments this player bet the minimum on the first hand, and then half of all of his chips on the second hand, and got two aces. He had split his bankroll exactly so that he could split - if it he had been just a tad shy he would not have been allowed to "split for less." The player got an 8 on one of his aces and a 10 on the other, and dealer busted anyway, so that quadrupled the player's bankroll. I watched and counted the cards closely and I put half of my chips out there on a subsequent hand and got a blackjack, but I still couldn't catch up by the end, because I was dealt losing hand after losing hand for some time after that. Probably if I had put ALL of my chips out on that blackjack hand I could have advanced, but not otherwise.

Anyway, bottom line being that unconventional strategies by tournament players who just bet a lot early and win by luck is winning the day lately, at least in the earlier tournament rounds.

I do agree with the below strategy, especially as far as if behind, bet opposite of your enemy, if in the lead, mimic your enemy, but you have to get to the final rounds and not be severely behind in order to even be a contender, and these players tossing it out there early and winning big early make it hard to even make it to the final hands and still be a contender.
Quote: MDawg

Thanks to the Wizard for giving tournament strategy advice pursuant to my question at his 8/5/2021 Live Stream.

What was discussed more specifically was Blackjack tournament strategy and:
Essentially, betting small for most of the initial rounds - bide your time, and then powering up perhaps in the last 5 hands of a round, mostly on the basis of what your enemies are doing:
-Keep in mind that the dealer is not the enemy - the other players are. If the dealer is running hot, that's bad for everyone not just for you.
-If behind bet opposite of your enemy, if your enemy bets big, you bet small, if your enemy bets small, you bet big.
If you are in the lead, mimic your enemies, bet the same way as the people trying to catch you.
-Sometimes will need to bet big. Don't be afraid to throw out some big wagers.
-Don't wait until the very last hand to catch up. Make the move when there are about 5 hands left.

I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
Marcusclark66
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September 1st, 2021 at 11:38:02 AM permalink
I remember a while back our properties had baccarat and bj tournaments for the VIP patrons. No buyin, all cashless chips, everyone same amount, provided along with a gift, usually in the 250.00 to 500.00 range and a wonderful catered dinner before the event.

Times have changed!
Marcus Clark. Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66. *Professional Casino Security Expert. *Certified EMT *Certified Company Firearms Instructor. *Certified Gaming Regulations Interpreter for Corporate Applications. *Domestic UrbanTactical Combat Casualty Expert. *Tic-Tac-Toe Expert (Real Competitive Versions) & Mastering Chess. *Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club. *Mastering Cracking it. Bit-by-Bit, Piece-by-Piece Crediting Forum Members. *Certified Casino Property Entry & Exit Point Analyzer *Baccarat Winning Session Record: 12 out of 12 & 1 out of 1 Mini Session. Baccarat Losing Session Record: 2 Losing Sessions.
MDawg
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September 1st, 2021 at 5:25:45 PM permalink
Well, all the tournaments I participate in are free, invitational ones. Of course, simply to qualify one must play at a certain level, not necessarily at a ridiculous level, but I assume at least at a few hundred a hand / average. Some of the tournaments I play in are smaller (maybe only 40 players or so), with much higher prizes, and for these I assume an average of at least a thousand a hand would be needed for the invitation.

Sometimes they do give us some kind of "door prize" when registering, sometimes not.

You're right I haven't seen the catered dinners in some time, but they do often have a decent buffet (sealed individually packaged food) going on. Keep in mind that these are COVID times so most casinos are not going to have open served food from trays.


I wonder if the catered dinners will return for New Year's Events this year?
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Expectedvalue
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September 1st, 2021 at 10:01:59 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I have been in two more blackjack tournaments since mid August, and there are more BJack and Baccarat tournaments coming up.

At least I have resisted the impulse to re-buy into the lower rounds - I have played for free only.

But what I have come up against is players who randomly bet bigger and through sheer luck amass a ton of chips early, thereby negating the effectiveness of the Wizard's proposed strategy of just betting the minimum until the final five hands. For example on one of the recent BlackJack tournaments this player bet the minimum on the first hand, and then half of all of his chips on the second hand, and got two aces. He had split his bankroll exactly so that he could split - if it he had been just a tad shy he would not have been allowed to "split for less." The player got an 8 on one of his aces and a 10 on the other, and dealer busted anyway, so that quadrupled the player's bankroll. I watched and counted the cards closely and I put half of my chips out there on a subsequent hand and got a blackjack, but I still couldn't catch up by the end, because I was dealt losing hand after losing hand for some time after that. Probably if I had put ALL of my chips out on that blackjack hand I could have advanced, but not otherwise.

Anyway, bottom line being that unconventional strategies by tournament players who just bet a lot early and win by luck is winning the day lately, at least in the earlier tournament rounds.

I do agree with the below strategy, especially as far as if behind, bet opposite of your enemy, if in the lead, mimic your enemy, but you have to get to the final rounds and not be severely behind in order to even be a contender, and these players tossing it out there early and winning big early make it hard to even make it to the final hands and still be a contender.

Quote: MDawg

Thanks to the Wizard for giving tournament strategy advice pursuant to my question at his 8/5/2021 Live Stream.

What was discussed more specifically was Blackjack tournament strategy and:
Essentially, betting small for most of the initial rounds - bide your time, and then powering up perhaps in the last 5 hands of a round, mostly on the basis of what your enemies are doing:
-Keep in mind that the dealer is not the enemy - the other players are. If the dealer is running hot, that's bad for everyone not just for you.
-If behind bet opposite of your enemy, if your enemy bets big, you bet small, if your enemy bets small, you bet big.
If you are in the lead, mimic your enemies, bet the same way as the people trying to catch you.
-Sometimes will need to bet big. Don't be afraid to throw out some big wagers.
-Don't wait until the very last hand to catch up. Make the move when there are about 5 hands left.






NOOOOOOO that did not quadruple his bankroll wth are you talking about. It doubled his bankroll.
MDawg
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September 2nd, 2021 at 8:42:28 AM permalink
It's interesting, given that Blackjack insurance is being discussed in some threads here today - I notice more tournament players insuring - even, crappy hands - in tournaments than would see at the regular casino tables.
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ChumpChange
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September 2nd, 2021 at 11:50:16 AM permalink
If I'm working on a progression and I have a BJ, I'll buy insurance against a dealer Ace, so I get a sure win and advance on my progression.
FinsRule
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September 2nd, 2021 at 12:36:10 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

It's interesting, given that Blackjack insurance is being discussed in some threads here today - I notice more tournament players insuring - even, crappy hands - in tournaments than would see at the regular casino tables.



Isnít there a count that insurance is the right play?
MDawg
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September 2nd, 2021 at 1:06:19 PM permalink
I know when insurance is appropriate, both by the book and by the count, I am just saying that in tournaments I notice players frequently opt for insurance when completely inappropriate.
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billryan
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September 2nd, 2021 at 1:51:03 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Isnít there a count that insurance is the right play?



Yes there is. There are many different ways to count but every method I know has a point where you insure.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
FinsRule
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September 2nd, 2021 at 2:25:17 PM permalink
Is counting allowed in tournaments? Like, could I literally bring paper and write down a count?
ChumpChange
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September 2nd, 2021 at 2:57:07 PM permalink
That's too short term. I'd bring a betting strategy on a card.
MDawg
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September 2nd, 2021 at 4:17:13 PM permalink
Baccarat tournaments we are given pen and paper and may write down whatever we like.

Some tournaments, Blackjack or Baccarat, they hand out a little piece of paper (and pen, if needed) before the final hand of each round to write down the chip counts going into the last hand.

I have also been in a Blackjack tournament or two where no paper or pen was handed out, and it was unclear whether we were allowed to write anything or not.

Typically there are 15 hands played in each round of a tournament. In a Blackjack tournament there are usually 5 players at the table, sometimes as few as 2, depending on which round is being played. Earlier rounds tend to have less players, later rounds max out at 5 or 6 players.
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Hunterhill
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September 2nd, 2021 at 5:34:09 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

By the way, I have Axel blocked but I was logged out when I noticed his post. The fact that he has no idea what that watch is, which I put in there just because I wanted to block out my name not to show off, tells me more about him than anything he has ever posted. I made the right decision to block his nonsense. Then again I suppose he might be a serious player but know nothing about timepieces, but I doubt it.

https://deployant.com/review-rolex-day-date-platinum/


To say that because someone doesnít know about watches means they are not a serious player is a pretty flawed assumption.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
sabre
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September 2nd, 2021 at 7:59:11 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

To say that because someone doesnít know about watches means they are not a serious player is a pretty flawed assumption.



Everything he posts is complete nonsense. Why would that be any different?
Ace2
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September 2nd, 2021 at 9:33:56 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

I know when insurance is appropriate, both by the book and by the count, I am just saying that in tournaments I notice players frequently opt for insurance when completely inappropriate.

Insurance is never appropriate ďby the bookĒ. Itís a 9 to 4 bet that pays 8 to 4
Itís all about making that GTA
MDawg
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September 2nd, 2021 at 9:34:13 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Insurance is never appropriate ďby the bookĒ. Itís a 9 to 4 bet that pays 8 to 4


I realize it's essentially a side bet that is supposed to have nothing to do with your cards, everything to do with the count, but in a tournament there aren't enough hands usually to get to much of anywhere on the count, and people are insuring stiff hands.
Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 2, 2021
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MDawg
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September 2nd, 2021 at 10:01:26 PM permalink
People are insuring hard 12s after two hands are out sometimes in a tournament. There is a desperate tendency to try to "preserve capital."
Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 3, 2021
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MDawg
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September 2nd, 2021 at 10:02:07 PM permalink
While I was at the tables yesterday a pit boss I know (I call this one my "Lucky Pit Boss" because I not only always win when around but don't even come anywhere near losing) told me that I was the first one called for the wild card advancement at the last tournament I was in. I didnít even realize there was a wild card drawing or what time it was set for this last one. Oh well.

The way that works is that if youíre not present when your name is called they draw another name. Iíll pay more attention to that next time. I did pay attention at the prior tournament I was in at a different casino, but my name wasn't called. Somehow, I didn't realize that they did wild card advancements at this casino for its tournaments too.

But moreover - and here it was almost unclear to me what exactly was saying because was so excited it was a little hard to follow - said that someone had been wild card advanced to the final table, won the entire tournament and didnít share any of it with the table (no deal was made). I didnít even realize there was a wild card that landed you plop on the winnerís (final) table. That's quite a lucky draw.
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Marcusclark66
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September 2nd, 2021 at 10:02:28 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

Everything he posts is complete nonsense. Why would that be any different?



Why so insulting?
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Expectedvalue
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September 2nd, 2021 at 11:42:48 PM permalink
Quote: Marcusclark66

Why so insulting?


Of course you chime in as the police. Total joke
Wizard
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September 3rd, 2021 at 6:17:11 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

Everything he posts is complete nonsense. Why would that be any different?



Personal insult. Three days.
ďExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.Ē -- Carl Sagan
MDawg
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Wellbush
September 4th, 2021 at 7:47:07 AM permalink
A rule I am running up against for entry into tournaments (or for really, any kind of promotion), is "one promotion per trip."

So, for example, if there is a gift card giveaway and a tournament in the same month, or two tournaments back to back on successive weekends, you are allowed access to only one promotion event per trip.

Typically to get past this and be considered separate trips, must check out and stay away at least three days before returning.

However, at least one of the casinos is working with me now to where if we stay more than 14 days, they are simply considered the second portion of the trip past 14 days to be an independent, new trip.

And for some of these tournaments, an actual casino stay is required, for others - not. To get past the stay requirement, if a tournament or promotion comes up during a period where we are ensconced in some other resort and aren't ready to move, I am just booking one night in their lowest end room and just picking up keys but never actually entering the room.

With as much luggage and personal belongings as we have, it is just too much of a hassle to move into a new resort and stay less than two weeks, which is why am running into this "only one promotion event per trip" issue. I did have a friend take back some of the things we had accumulated to drop off with the domestics at our home, which is making moving around much easier. We bought or accumulated a little too many things during this trip, but have now downsized to where we were at the start of the trip six months ago.
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