Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 4th, 2018 at 3:51:58 PM permalink
So I think (well that is being modest, I know) that I have a winning system for all games.

In fact I have even ran a sim of it on some (not all) common table games and some slots.

The sim was inconclusive, because there is more work to be done (and countless games and variations of rules for the games to cover) before I can with 100% that this is the ultimate betting system. But, I would bet that my system is better than all others, and maybe would even pass the Wizard's test (I honestly do not remember the exact rules since it has been so many years since he had that available.
***(Update after finding an archived version of the old rules [See Below] I can say that this would not pass a sim requiring 1 billion Bets while only allowing play on Roulette , Baccarat , and Craps. So, sorry, I shot the gun with that claim, I would need Blackjack or certain slots or VP to be allowed.
https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/challenge/
)

But, the House always has a edge. (with some rare exceptions, like certain video pokers, and at certain points in the game during blackjack). But, for the sake of simplicity and the further cement the validity of this betting system, lets just stick with games and scenarios where the house has an edge, because technically all betting systems are +EV anyway if the player has a constant edge so no sims would be needed.

And, no I am not here to sell anything, just to distribute information for the betterment of the American Gambling Community. I will respond to all questions publicly on here (I actually ignore all PMs for system advice or requests for free slot play).

But, for the sake of this system and simplicity I am going to stick to slot machines for a basic run-through. (to be continued when I have time to type out the rest of the system).
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
January 4th, 2018 at 3:53:58 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

But, for the sake of this system and simplicity I am going to stick to slot machines for a basic run-through. (to be continued when I have time to type out the rest of the system).



Oh, you can save your breath; just type out a one paragraph summary.
"What, me worry?"
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 4th, 2018 at 3:57:23 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Oh, you can save your breath; just type out a one paragraph summary.



Actually I cannot, because it varies based on games, even dates, and promos at various casinos that need to be factored.

-As such a lot of writing and research (to be up to date on publicly available promos) is involved.
noy2222
noy2222
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 18, 2009
January 4th, 2018 at 4:04:34 PM permalink
Here's a shortlist:
Roulette: ALWAYS bet on black. Unless a red or a green is going to come up.
Blackjack: Bet high when you're going to get a good hand, bet low when you're going to get a bad hand
Three Card Poker: Can't be beat, don't play that.
Baccarat: Stab the dealer with a pencil, steal all the chips on the table. Security will respect your moxie and allow you to cash in.
Slots: Rub the screen gently in order to manipulate the RNG in your favor. If you keep losing, rub it more passionately.
(Note: Wheel of Fortune is an exception. You must yell out letters and clap very loudly in order to win a jackpot. if you keep losing, yell out better letters)
Big Wheel: Bet on 40 and 20. Bigger numbers means higher payrate.
Craps: Learn how to manipulate dice with your mind. It might take years, but that is the best system to win it big.
Video Poker: Hold the best 2 cards. It works exactly like Hold'em.
Hold'em: Snatch your opponant's hand when he's not looking. Tell the dealer you'll be playing it "Omaha style"
Bingo: Yell Bingo! really loudly after the 17th ball comes out.
Keno: Play the Lost numbers.
Pai Gow: No one really knows the rules of Pai Gow. Make them up and convince the dealer you've won. It works similarly to Mornington Crescent.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 11083
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 4th, 2018 at 4:28:02 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Actually I cannot, because it varies based on games, even dates, and promos at various casinos that need to be factored.

-As such a lot of writing and research (to be up to date on publicly available promos) is involved.



If you are including promos then there certainly are ways to beat the house on otherwise -EV games. It is what the AP's do everyday actually. Among other things.
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 4th, 2018 at 8:12:12 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

If you are including promos then there certainly are ways to beat the house on otherwise -EV games. It is what the AP's do everyday actually. Among other things.



Exactly, designing a system that incorporates standard daily promos and loss rebates available to the public and match-plays as part of its betting strategy makes it actually pretty easy have a +EV betting system and can be worked onto almost any game, particularly games and machines that already have a low house edge .
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
January 4th, 2018 at 9:50:40 PM permalink
That sort of thing is fine for locals, but means little or nothing to we out of towners who fly in and out for a few days maybe once or so a year.
"What, me worry?"
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 297
  • Posts: 11542
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
January 5th, 2018 at 3:04:21 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Exactly, designing a system that incorporates standard daily promos and loss rebates available to the public and match-plays as part of its betting strategy makes it actually pretty easy have a +EV betting system and can be worked onto almost any game, particularly games and machines that already have a low house edge .



That is an already estabñished AP move. Its my primary move

I can state there are so many pitfalls that it is too casino specific for most people to ever master. I have seen plenty of people try. Not tooting my own horn but trust me there are always unexpected hurdles in that type of ??? System??

According to the Wiz rules and Michael Bluejay if he is still giving the similar offer what you propose is not classified as a system that beats -ev games but as a strategy to outwit casinos that dont give proper thought to their promotions. As such your "system" does not match the Wiz requirements for the challenge
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
  • Threads: 57
  • Posts: 3540
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 5:13:36 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Exactly, designing a system that incorporates standard daily promos and loss rebates available to the public and match-plays as part of its betting strategy makes it actually pretty easy have a +EV betting system and can be worked onto almost any game, particularly games and machines that already have a low house edge .


Thatís comp/promotion hustling, which is a standard AP play, the bread and butter for machine players.

Calling it a system system implies that you can mathematically overcome the House edge long term by varying bets in a certain systematic way. And that is not possible reguardless of how hydrated you are.
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 8:19:53 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

That is an already estabñished AP move. Its my primary move

I can state there are so many pitfalls that it is too casino specific for most people to ever master. I have seen plenty of people try. Not tooting my own horn but trust me there are always unexpected hurdles in that type of ??? System??

According to the Wiz rules and Michael Bluejay if he is still giving the similar offer what you propose is not classified as a system that beats -ev games but as a strategy to outwit casinos that dont give proper thought to their promotions. As such your "system" does not match the Wiz requirements for the challenge



I know I already conceded that when I found his archived rules (and updated my main thread). As for Michael Bluejay, I have no clue who that is to be honest.

My system does not require match play or promo plays, but it did incorporate them. It is very easy to turn almost any game +EV when over 50% of your bets are made with not your money.

In my opinion any system that requires changing your bet or bet type (IE swithcing to promo plays) according to certain conditions should count as a betting system.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 233
  • Posts: 6698
Joined: May 8, 2015
January 5th, 2018 at 8:56:04 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

So I think (well that is being modest, I know) that I have a winning system for all games.




you modified and qualified your claim so I give you credit for that.

every single credentialed mathematician since about the year 1700 has concluded that a house game with a negative expectancy cannot be beaten with a system of varying bet size or bet selection (without any physical bias such as an unbalanced roulette wheel.)

if you had actually done what you claimed in the first sentence that I quoted you would be a sure thing to win the Nobel Prize for Mathematics.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
January 5th, 2018 at 8:59:49 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

And that is not possible reguardless of how hydrated you are.



Hydration, probiotics and a high fiber diet: that's the ticket to gambling success in America today.
"What, me worry?"
BackgammonKid69
BackgammonKid69
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 5, 2018
January 5th, 2018 at 12:42:37 PM permalink
Well well, at LAST!! A system to beat those naughty slots. And after a billion wagers, no less. Here's a suggestion: go and place your billion wagers, count up your remaining funds, compare them with the funds you started with, and let us all know how successful your method was. I know you called it a system, but I'm thinking 'method' sounds so much more doable.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22291
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
January 5th, 2018 at 12:53:45 PM permalink
I'm confused. Does this system require using various extras offered by the casino?

Would it work in a casino that offers no card, no promotions, no match plays, no rebates no nothing? Assume it's at Axel's Strip Club and Casino.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
darkoz
darkoz
  • Threads: 297
  • Posts: 11542
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
January 5th, 2018 at 1:10:25 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I'm confused. Does this system require using various extras offered by the casino?

Would it work in a casino that offers no card, no promotions, no match plays, no rebates no nothing? Assume it's at Axel's Strip Club and Casino.



Really Axel? You wouldnt hand out any freebies? Not even a complimentary lapdance?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 1:51:40 PM permalink
Quote: BackgammonKid69

Well well, at LAST!! A system to beat those naughty slots. And after a billion wagers, no less. Here's a suggestion: go and place your billion wagers, count up your remaining funds, compare them with the funds you started with, and let us all know how successful your method was. I know you called it a system, but I'm thinking 'method' sounds so much more doable.



No, I clearly said, my system does work with 1 billion wagers, since the system is designed around limiting as little exposure as possible (IE as few bets as possible, preferably most with not your money). Which why I updated my OP to say that I could not play the Wizard's sim, at least not based on his old rules. My peliminary sim would not qualify.
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 1:53:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I'm confused. Does this system require using various extras offered by the casino?

Would it work in a casino that offers no card, no promotions, no match plays, no rebates no nothing? Assume it's at Axel's Strip Club and Casino.



It would, but the +EV is greater when you do not have to bet any of your own money. So if you can do the system with risking zero of your actual money, the results are far better.
OnceDear
OnceDear
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 7481
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 2:00:19 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

It would, but the +EV is greater when you do not have to bet any of your own money. So if you can do the system with risking zero of your actual money, the results are far better.


Is it. . . I'll gamble on your behalf and will just take a percentage of any winnings I make for you?
$:o)
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 2:03:05 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Is it. . . I'll gamble on your behalf and will just take a percentage of any winnings I make for you?
$:o)



That is actually a decent stratedgy if you can find somebody to agree to it (I have in the past).
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22291
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
January 5th, 2018 at 2:39:20 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

It would, but the +EV is greater when you do not have to bet any of your own money. So if you can do the system with risking zero of your actual money, the results are far better.

NO SH*T, REALLY!!??
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22291
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
January 5th, 2018 at 3:23:21 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Really Axel? You wouldnt hand out any freebies? Not even a complimentary lapdance?

Actually, I would have lots of "good" -EV promos and fair odds/returns. Even a few break even games to attract Value players and AP's, hoping they get drunk, get distracted and make mistakes, and spend money on the girls (since I would be getting a cut of their money.) All the free drinks would be 3 fingers. Half of the promotions would be geared towards earning free lapdances and entries into the champaign room.

I would teach my employees how to spot legitimate players and people who have and spend money.

Bars around LV need to learn this concept, trusted bartenders should have the freedom to act like a host(obviously with restrictions). At the minimum, they should be letting the owners know who should be taken care of outside the normal free drinks and food.

I have seen it far too many times where someone is worthy of much more than the standard drinks and food and they need attention, meanwhile, some guy is scalping them on the free drinks. Some bars actually need a part-time host. You would be surprised how much money some people gamble at their local bar/ restaurants in the nicer neighborhoods. Some people play $1 and up denominations on crap pay tables for many hours every day.

Years ago, at a local upper middle-class bar hang out, we actually got taunted and received threats from the regulars for locking up 2 Very high VP progressives duing a double royal promo. It was a Doc holidays/Bounty Hunters.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 3:34:38 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

NO SH*T, REALLY!!??



Yes, when the system factors for results, the less money of your own actual money, the greater the expected returns. If you can enter a scenario where you play the system using zero of your money, that is even more ideal.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22291
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
January 5th, 2018 at 3:46:53 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Yes, when the system factors for results, the less money of your own actual money, the greater the expected returns. If you can enter a scenario where you play the system using zero of your money, that is even more ideal.

WOW, Who'd a thunk it?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 233
  • Posts: 6698
Joined: May 8, 2015
January 5th, 2018 at 4:40:00 PM permalink
Publishers Clearinghouse does not require any purchase to enter their Sweepstakes.

JUST IMAGINE THE GIGANTIC EDGE YOU HAVE WHEN YOU MAIL IN YOUR ENTRY

whoopdee effing doo
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
January 5th, 2018 at 4:41:22 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Publishers Clearinghouse does not require any purchase to enter their Sweepstakes.

JUST IMAGINE THE GIGANTIC EDGE YOU HAVE WHEN YOU MAIL IN YOUR ENTRY

whoopdee effing doo


With the cost of a stamp, I'd bet it's -EV. Unless you can enter for free online.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
  • Threads: 57
  • Posts: 3540
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 5:25:24 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

With the cost of a stamp, I'd bet it's -EV. Unless you can enter for free online.


Because Iím too lazy to google, where does the money from PCH actually come from?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22291
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
January 5th, 2018 at 7:41:52 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Because Iím too lazy to google, where does the money from PCH actually come from?

magazine subscriptions
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gandler
Gandler
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 1797
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
January 5th, 2018 at 8:55:16 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

With the cost of a stamp, I'd bet it's -EV. Unless you can enter for free online.



It is online and 100% free and legit. However, the probability of winning a PCH prize of any sort even small ones (like 20 gift cards) are obscene. So you are -EV in your time unless you have absolutely nothing better to do than click through endless ads in hopes of them sending you a check or gift card one day..... The top prized are awesome (5K a week for life and similar prizes), but the probabilities are beyond fantastic. You are just as well off playing PCH once a year for 5mins than doing it everyday for hours, that is how little of a difference it makes as far as chances to win a prize of any significance. They make their money from ad revenue and referrals.
OnceDear
OnceDear
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 7481
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
January 30th, 2018 at 9:10:19 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

If you can enter a scenario where you play the system using zero of your money, that is even more ideal.

So, Whose money do you play with? Where can we recruit this sucker?
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Romes
Romes
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 5605
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
January 30th, 2018 at 9:47:09 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

...Assume it's at Axel's Strip Club and Casino.

But where would you find enough strapping young men short on cash needing a place to crash.... OHHHHH you're opening it with ZK?!?!
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
TigerWu
TigerWu
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5632
Joined: May 23, 2016
January 30th, 2018 at 10:35:43 AM permalink
Quote: noy2222


Pai Gow: No one really knows the rules of Pai Gow. Make them up and convince the dealer you've won. It works similarly to Mornington Crescent.



How to win at Pai Gow Tiles:

1) Do whatever the Chinese guy next to you is doing.
2) Profit.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
  • Threads: 164
  • Posts: 22291
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
January 30th, 2018 at 10:47:52 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

But where would you find enough strapping young men short on cash needing a place to crash.... OHHHHH you're opening it with ZK?!?!

I will use your lingo.

JELLY?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Boz
Boz
  • Threads: 155
  • Posts: 5701
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
January 30th, 2018 at 3:17:35 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I'm confused. Does this system require using various extras offered by the casino?

Would it work in a casino that offers no card, no promotions, no match plays, no rebates no nothing? Assume it's at Axel's Strip Club and Casino.



And you get free rides from your hotel in a red Miata.
Lucca3927
Lucca3927
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 128
Joined: Aug 5, 2017
January 30th, 2018 at 7:08:02 PM permalink
I came up with a sure fire winning system for all games years ago. I went into the casino and worked as a dealer. At the end of the day I always had more money than I started with.

I also saw a lot of comp whores while I was dealing. The most common was at the craps table where two buddies would offset each other with bets on the pass/don't pass & come/don't come. They'd get burned with the 12, off course, but clearly they thought the comps were worth it.
"I should have bet black." - Winston Churchill .
Zekka
Zekka
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 12
Joined: Feb 3, 2018
February 3rd, 2018 at 9:49:43 PM permalink
I'm sure the system you designed works great and will always make you lots of money, but I'm not sure if there are good questions that we can really ask without knowing your whole system. If you just want to promote your system, great! But it's going to be really hard for anyone else to figure out if your system works based only on the details you posted.

It sounds like your system is pretty complicated. I think this is probably a bad sign -- in all math, really complicated designs make it easy to hide mistakes that get you to impossible results.

I feel really weird about your comment that it requires blackjack and slots to be available because those games, if each round is independent, can be modeled the same way as roulette -- if you start with a bet of size N and play optimally, you come out on average with less than size N. Blackjack lets you double down and lose more than you started with, but for the purpose of expected value calculations, this doesn't matter. Since you inevitably do worse than the expected value if you deviate from basic strategy in blackjack or if you bet less than the maximum number of lines in slots, there are no meaningful choices to be made. Any strategy that works for blackjack or slots should theoretically work for roulette too.

(EDIT: Note that some slot machines have bonuses which mean that the payout percentage of each round is not independent. Some are even required to pay out after a certain number of rounds. Those machines, as they approach the point that they're obligated to pay out, or as the bonus accumulates, get more and more favorable to you the player. I suppose exploiting those slot machines would be a good idea, but I'm not sure I would call it a betting system, because that's just playing a different game with more favorable odds.)

Some casinos have promotions and it sounds like your system involves getting to play with somebody else's money so you keep winnings and they keep losses? Maybe you're talking about a promotion that changes degree of losses. If so, you really need to specify how you do that that, because that totally changes the payout percentage for the games, but in a way you haven't disclosed to us. If your system amounts to "if I decrease the house edge to 0%, my payout percentage is 100%" then there's no need for it to be complicated -- just play the altered version of the game according to the best strategy you know and you'll break even or better.

Please post more substantive notes about your system! I don't know if it's bad or not because I don't understand it, but I think you might have fallen into some of the traps I posted.
Last edited by: Zekka on Feb 3, 2018
  • Jump to: