Unique numbers without repeat

Quote: chaosrevolt

Hi, I have been working on a system that involves repeating numbers. To be honest i have tried every single system i could research or conjure up on my own and all have ultimately failed but despite that and every mathematician telling me roulette is impossible to beat and fully understanding the gamblers fallacy there is one thing that i just cant get past.
The problem i have is although i know that mathematically the odds of an outcome remain the same no matter what has happened before, the odds of 18 unique numbers hitting in 18 consecutive spins is not 1/37 and the odds of hitting 37 unique numbers in 37 spins is as near to impossible as it can get.
I am not all that intelligent and my judgement may be distorted from wanting to find a way to beat the casino and make millions but surely if it is almost impossible for 37 numbers to hit in 37 spins. A number that has already hit has odds lower than 1/37 of hitting again in 37 spins simply because not all 37 numbers will hit.
Really my only question is what is the most number of unique numbers anyone has seen consecutively and how often. for example I believe the most unique numbers i have seen is 17 or 18 and i have probably seen that 5 or 6 times in thousands and thousands of spins. the most i have heard of anyone seeing is 20 if anyone has seen more than it would be great if you could comment.
If you are interested the system is an increment betting system. first you need to watch 8 spins and keep your fingers crossed you dont see a repeat. then bet 1 unit on each of the 8 numbers that hit, then 2 units on the 9 numbers hit and so on you do not have to double up every time, but to make it to the 20th spin you will need 8973 units and your average return will only be around 23 units. so your risking a lot for a little. it will take 384 wins to cover your bankroll and also a lot of time as 50% of the time you will see a repeat before the 8th spin. i have tried a lot of systems and on thing i have learnt is you lose. Hopefully this system will see you win more than 384 times before you lose

Quote: QFIT

Suppose you have ten possible numbers with equal odds of appearance and ten rolls. The odds that you will get:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
or
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
or
7 2 5 9 4 8 6 3 1 10

are all exactly the same. It may seem that getting ten fours in a row is less likely than 7 2 5 9 4 8 6 3 1 10; but it isn't. The fact that these seem to suggest a pattern to the human brain, which likes to see patterns, does not affect randomness, where there are no patterns. None of these sets suggests what the eleventh roll will be.

Quote: QFIT

If the player had an infinite amount of money, he could never win because he could never increase his bankroll.

Quote: chaosrevolt

Thanks for the welcome.

Quote:

I am aware of the basics. i only ever play european roulette as the odds are slightly better.

Quote:

I have used lots of different systems and lost however the only reason they dont work is the table limit. if there was no table limit and a gambler had infinite amount f money they would all work.

Quote:

. . .I tripled my money using that system but the return for effort/time/risk wasnt worth it. i may have just been lucky

Quote:

Another system . . . a complete waste of time.

Quote:

. . . but its simply trying to improve the odds.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

This....

1 1 3 5 5 7 2 2 9 10

is just as likely as...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Quote: chaosrevolt

as i said im not that intelligent. i would bet everything even my lungs and my kidneys u cant get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 to come out which means a repeat must be more likely whatever anyone says.

Quote: chaosrevolt

Thats my exact point even thou mathematically the odds are the same in reality it doesnt work like that you are much more likely to get a repeat than see all 10 numbers

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Probably because there are more combinations of ten numbers where you'll see the same number at least twice. It doesn't change the fact that you cannot predict these outcomes.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Use the numbers (1, 2, 3) and here are the combos:

1 1 1
1 1 2
1 1 3
1 2 1
1 2 2
1 2 3
1 3 1
1 3 2
1 3 3
2 1 1
2 1 2
2 1 3
2 2 1
2 2 2
2 2 3
2 3 1
2 3 2
2 3 3
3 1 1
3 1 2
3 1 3
3 2 1
3 2 2
3 2 3
3 3 1
3 3 2
3 3 3

As you see, there are 27 possible ways these numbers come out and only 6 don't have a repeater. Therefore 21 DO repeat. The point is, each of these 27 combos are equally likely and you cannot predict which one will show up.

Quote: chaosrevolt

im not saying you can predict anything im saying your odds will improve in this case 1/9 that there wont be a repeat as opposed to 1/3. i could be completly wrong. has anyone ever seen more than 20 numbers without repeat?

Quote: odiousgambit

you are displaying "invincible ignorance" which you can look up with google or wikipedia - it suggests trolling so I would take a breath and go back and read and defeat my ignorance if you are for real

I've been hard on you so let me give you this: you need to think about how common your approach is. One billion gamblers before you have tried to find some angle in the same way you are trying. You have to realize no one has found success and ask why.

Quote: OnceDear

Oh to hell with this nonsense!!!!
Go away and calculate exactly the house edge on your proposition.

Quote: chaosrevolt

<snip>
Really my only question is what is the most number of unique numbers anyone has seen consecutively and how often.

> draw.unique = function(u,d,n,digits=10) {
+   require(Rmpfr)
+   ulen = length(u)
+   umax = u[ulen]
+   bits = ceiling(lchoose(umax,umax%/%2)/log(2)+ d*log2(n))
+   p = rep(0,ulen)
+   for (i in 1:ulen) {
+     j = 0:(u-1)
+     a = chooseZ(u,j)
+     b = mpfr(u-j,bits)
+     N = mpfr(n,bits)
+     p = as.double(choose(n,u)/N^d * sum((-1)^j * a*b^d))
+   }
+   p = as.matrix(p)
+   rownames(p) = paste("u=",u," ",sep="")
+   colnames(p) = "Prob"
+   cat("\n")
+   print(formatC(p,digits),quote=FALSE)
+ }
> draw.unique(1:1,1,37)
     Prob       
u=1            1
> draw.unique(1:2,2,37)
     Prob         
u=1  0.02702331543
u=2  0.9729003906 
> draw.unique(1:3,3,37)
     Prob          
u=1  0.000730458647
u=2  0.0788898468  
u=3  0.9203796387  
> draw.unique(1:4,4,37)
     Prob           
u=1  1.974216684e-05
u=2  0.004975026299 
u=3  0.149250783    
u=4  0.8457544148   
> draw.unique(1:5,5,37)
     Prob           
u=1  5.335720887e-07
u=2  0.0002881289281
u=3  0.0168075208   
u=4  0.2285822829   
u=5  0.7543215336   
> draw.unique(1:6,6,37)
     Prob           
u=1  1.442086727e-08
u=2  1.609368788e-05
u=3  0.001635326349 
u=4  0.04015634701  
u=5  0.3058060272   
u=6  0.6523861913   
> draw.unique(1:7,7,37)
     Prob           
u=1  3.897531695e-10
u=2  8.839601884e-07
u=3  0.0001478177871
u=4  0.005843959024 
u=5  0.07714025911  
u=6  0.3702732437   
u=7  0.546593836    
> draw.unique(1:8,8,37)
     Prob           
u=1  1.053386945e-11
u=2  4.816085111e-08
u=3  1.282140454e-05
u=4  0.000767611915 
u=5  0.01563653901  
u=6  0.1267602096   
u=7  0.4136385786   
u=8  0.4431841913   
> draw.unique(1:9,9,37)
     Prob           
u=1  2.846991742e-13
u=2  2.613538419e-09
u=3  1.085130903e-06
u=4  9.476690309e-05
u=5  0.002797672655 
u=6  0.03407920286  
u=7  0.1844604472   
u=8  0.4312062402   
u=9  0.3473605824   
> draw.unique(1:10,10,37)
      Prob           
u=1   7.694572276e-15
u=2   1.415493516e-10
u=3   9.045585277e-08
u=4   1.124221792e-05
u=5   0.0004625857048
u=6   0.007945966003 
u=7   0.06345076808  
u=8   0.2427963064   
u=9   0.4224655732   
u=10  0.2628674678   
> draw.unique(1:11,11,37)
      Prob           
u=1   2.079614129e-16
u=2   7.658802913e-12
u=3   7.468156368e-09
u=4   1.298496505e-06
u=5   7.253842474e-05
u=6   0.001688609151 
u=7   0.01866163034  
u=8   0.1039430674   
u=9   0.2930617039   
u=10  0.3907489386   
u=11  0.1918222062   
> draw.unique(1:12,12,37)
      Prob           
u=1   5.620578726e-18
u=2   4.141916875e-13
u=3   6.127710055e-10
u=4   1.472406307e-07
u=5   1.096060833e-05
u=6   0.0003365644458
u=7   0.004945359353 
u=8   0.03760522836  
u=9    0.15275417    
u=10  0.3273842458   
u=11  0.3421693408   
u=12  0.1347939827   
> draw.unique(1:13,13,37)
      Prob           
u=1   1.519075331e-19
u=2   2.239420854e-14
u=3   5.007593853e-11
u=4   1.648099289e-08
u=5   1.612486013e-06
u=6   6.405746328e-05
u=7   0.001217594954 
u=8   0.01214061101  
u=9   0.06663078791  
u=10  0.2040799789   
u=11  0.3406280375   
u=12  0.2841602879   
u=13  0.09107701537  
> draw.unique(1:14,14,37)
      Prob           
u=1   4.105609004e-21
u=2   1.210645561e-15
u=3   4.081394943e-12
u=4   1.827744688e-09
u=5   2.326027792e-07
u=6   1.178227925e-05
u=7   0.0002840255686
u=8   0.003612236128 
u=9   0.02572310299  
u=10   0.10558005    
u=11  0.2501910227   
u=12  0.3315203359   
u=13  0.224000227    
u=14  0.05907698294  
> draw.unique(1:15,15,37)
      Prob           
u=1   1.109624055e-22
u=2   6.544429522e-17
u=3   3.320691196e-13
u=4   2.013444914e-10
u=5   3.306295867e-08
u=6   2.111809849e-06
u=7   6.36062064e-05 
u=8   0.001011315029 
u=9   0.009088183097 
u=10  0.04800128064  
u=11  0.1514260162   
u=12  0.2833300168   
u=13  0.3027030094   
u=14  0.1676508975   
u=15  0.03672352994  
> draw.unique(1:16,16,37)
      Prob           
u=1   2.998983933e-24
u=2   3.537637435e-18
u=3   2.698642997e-14
u=4   2.207211664e-11
u=5   4.647544907e-09
u=6   3.710506425e-07
u=7   1.380296081e-05
u=8   0.0002702353088
u=9   0.003003291452 
u=10  0.01985086306  
u=11  0.08004650691  
u=12  0.1982982871   
u=13  0.297794312    
u=14  0.2597833728   
u=15  0.1191033403   
u=16  0.02183561239  
> draw.unique(1:17,17,37)
      Prob           
u=1   8.10536198e-26 
u=2   1.912265631e-19
u=3   2.191435331e-15
u=4   2.410973113e-12
u=5   6.477325509e-10
u=6   6.418987275e-08
u=7   2.922251233e-06
u=8   6.962084581e-05
u=9   0.000942336406 
u=10  0.007637859222 
u=11  0.0382833751   
u=12  0.1205618547   
u=13  0.2386157631   
u=14  0.2914602894   
u=15  0.2097720994   
u=16  0.08026062934  
u=17  0.01239318541  
> draw.unique(1:18,18,37)
      Prob           
u=1   2.190638373e-27
u=2   1.033664984e-20
u=3   1.778648357e-16
u=4   2.626594933e-13
u=5   8.968175317e-11
u=6   1.096936968e-08
u=7   6.066390456e-07
u=8   1.742254874e-05
u=9   0.0002837846536
u=10  0.002777405719 
u=11  0.01695511689  
u=12  0.06600297323  
u=13  0.1652986835   
u=14  0.2650600639   
u=15  0.2662207607   
u=16  0.1594366556   
u=17  0.05124749644  
u=18  0.006699019142 
> draw.unique(1:19,19,37)
      Prob           
u=1   5.920644251e-29
u=2   5.587399606e-22
u=3   1.443125108e-17
u=4   2.855906426e-14
u=5   1.235341971e-11
u=6   1.856379302e-09
u=7   1.239601021e-07
u=8   4.258907062e-06
u=9   8.26842107e-05 
u=10  0.0009654061483
u=11  0.007067465952 
u=12  0.03332077616  
u=13  0.1026745193   
u=14  0.2075137648   
u=15  0.2726944022   
u=16  0.2272390061   
u=17  0.1140372218   
u=18  0.03096033171  
u=19  0.003440036857 
> draw.unique(1:20,20,37)
      Prob           
u=1   1.600174122e-30
u=2   3.020221764e-23
u=3   1.170629977e-18
u=4   3.100727556e-15
u=5   1.694852639e-12
u=6   3.117185201e-10
u=7   2.500725604e-08
u=8   1.021352961e-06
u=9   2.345043787e-05
u=10  0.0003234924157
u=11  0.002805624094 
u=12  0.01577306564  
u=13  0.05858886907  
u=14   0.14511841    
u=15  0.2395468277   
u=16  0.2604081337   
u=17  0.1813689702   
u=18  0.07670352451  
u=19  0.01766505413  
u=20  0.001673531444 

Quote: QFIT

Old story. BJ dealer once told me he dealt himself six BJs in a row with a high bettor at the table. The player picked up his chair and smashed against the table. Dealer said he didn't blame him.

Quote: chaosrevolt

I have used lots of different systems and lost however the only reason they dont work is the table limit. if there was no table limit and a gambler had infinite amount f money they would all work.

Quote: chaosrevolt

i would bet everything even my lungs and my kidneys u cant get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 to come out which means a repeat must be more likely whatever anyone says.

Quote: AxelWolf

There is a guy named TurboGenius on various roulette forums who preaches this exact type of system and claims to be making money.

Quote: gamerfreak

I'll sell you a winning lottery system for $20. No refunds.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Ever read John Scarne's Complete Guide to Gambling? Scarne tells a story of a Curacao casino that asked for his help when it was losing money on roulette. Scarne's solution: reduce the maximum/minimum table limits to prevent a Martingale-type system from winning too many times. Keeping too many people from short-term wins using systems like this is one of the reasons the limits exist. You are right that every system works with "infinite time and budget," but you have neither of those.

Quote: chaosrevolt

Hi, I have been working on a system that involves repeating numbers. To be honest i have tried every single system i could research or conjure up on my own and all have ultimately failed

Quote:

but despite that and every mathematician telling me roulette is impossible to beat

Quote:

A number that has already hit has odds

Quote:

as 50% of the time you will see a repeat before the 8th spin.

Quote: FleaStiff

Impossible to beat legally.

Quote: QFIT

High-limit tables are less likely to be manned by less experienced dealers.

Quote: AxelWolf

There is a guy named TurboGenius on various roulette forums who preaches this exact type of system and claims to be making money.

Quote: AxelWolf

Perhaps you think I believe in such nonsense?

I was merely pointing out that there is someone else out there with the same ridiculous beliefs.