98steps
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
• Posts: 119
September 21st, 2010 at 3:21:38 PM permalink
Please Help.......I have programmed about 2/3 of my system into WinCraps. I am having a great deal of trouble getting several issues programmed correctly. As I stated before, I am NOT a computer programmer in any way. If any of you are conversant with this program, I would greatly appreciate any help you can give me in programming certain aspects.

1. getting the passline to vary according to predetermined odds bets
2. programming in predetermined stopping points
3. moving odds from a buy bet when it is the point, and returning the value to the buy bet once the point has been resolved
98steps
Joined: Sep 14, 2010
• Posts: 119
September 21st, 2010 at 3:27:03 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

And you're doing this with a PRNG rather than dice? Well, be very careful that you implement the RNG properly...

at the risk of tarnishing my already questionable image here, I am fairly ignorant of RNG's. What do you mean implement it properly? Don't they simply generate truly random numbers according to the same probabilities that control dice? Please, educate me.
Triplell
Joined: Aug 13, 2010
• Posts: 342
September 21st, 2010 at 3:34:56 PM permalink
Quote: 98steps

at the risk of tarnishing my already questionable image here, I am fairly ignorant of RNG's. What do you mean implement it properly? Don't they simply generate truly random numbers according to the same probabilities that control dice? Please, educate me.

Random number generators need to be seeded, which is already taken care of with WinCraps, so you should be fine. I think they allow you to reseed it if you like.

Anyway, you don't need to know programming to know how to run WinCraps. Just understand logic. The best way would be to write out your betting system with If statements, IE, if this happens, then I'll do this.

Simple.
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
• Posts: 3412
September 21st, 2010 at 3:42:34 PM permalink
Quote: Triplell

Random number generators need to be seeded, which is already taken care of with WinCraps, so you should be fine. I think they allow you to reseed it if you like.

Anyway, you don't need to know programming to know how to run WinCraps. Just understand logic. The best way would be to write out your betting system with If statements, IE, if this happens, then I'll do this.

Simple.

Of course, a true RNG hasn't been invented yet. All we have are PRNGs (pseudo-RNGs).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Triplell
Joined: Aug 13, 2010
• Posts: 342
September 21st, 2010 at 3:50:03 PM permalink
I didn't think that was his question. But yeah, nothing is truely random when it comes to computers. However, it really isn't an issue if the random number generator is seeded, which WinCraps does.
goatcabin
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
• Posts: 664
September 21st, 2010 at 4:13:19 PM permalink
Quote: 98steps

Please Help.......I have programmed about 2/3 of my system into WinCraps. I am having a great deal of trouble getting several issues programmed correctly. As I stated before, I am NOT a computer programmer in any way. If any of you are conversant with this program, I would greatly appreciate any help you can give me in programming certain aspects.

1. getting the passline to vary according to predetermined odds bets
2. programming in predetermined stopping points
3. moving odds from a buy bet when it is the point, and returning the value to the buy bet once the point has been resolved

I am a pretty experienced WinCraps user and have written many, many AutoBet files. I advise you to read carefully the Help file sections on AutoBet construction, especially the use of Chip Stacks.

For example, I just wrote a program that implements a progression on odds, using a couple of Chip Stacks.

When initializing:
Bet \$1 on Chip Stack #1

While (some condition, like bankroll at a certain level)
Bet \$2 on Chip Stack #1

While a point is established on the number n
Bet 500% of Chip Stack #1 on pass line odds

For stopping, I use:

While . . .
The # of rolls in the game are not less than 200
Next roll is a come-out roll
or while . . .
Bankroll is not greater than \$ 25
or while . . .
Bankroll is not less than \$ 350
then . . .
Add \$ 1 to Chip-Stack # 27
Bet \$ 1 on Chip-Stack # 1
Bet \$ 2 on Chip-Stack # 2
Reset table (preserve Chip-Stacks)
(So, the first two conditions end the session after about two hours, but make sure any pass bet is resolved)
(The 2nd condition is obvious) AND
(The 3rd condition implements a win goal)
(Chip stack #27 keeps track of the number of 200-roll sessions.)

When . . .
Chip-Stack # 27 is equal to \$ 10000
then . . .
Stop Auto-Rolling / Hyper-Drive
(So, this stops the "Hyper-Drive" after 10,000 sessions.)

Good luck. I think that WinCraps can definitely help you to not lose the \$1000, as you will realize your system cannot overcome the casino's edge. A system like yours may result in a very high percentage of winning sessions, but the mean net outcome is still going to be negative. I promise you.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
September 21st, 2010 at 4:17:44 PM permalink
Quote: Triplell

I didn't think that was his question. But yeah, nothing is truely random when it comes to computers. However, it really isn't an issue if the random number generator is seeded, which WinCraps does.

A proper seed just ensures that an RNG is in a long cycle. The MT does this just fine. But it's not seeding the RNG that's the problem, it's mapping its results onto game outcomes. If you do this wrong, your sim will suffer from low-order bias. In short, "(mod 36 + 1 on a RNG)" is not good enough because 36 is not an integral power of 2.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Triplell
Joined: Aug 13, 2010
• Posts: 342
September 21st, 2010 at 4:31:55 PM permalink
I was taught that for trials of 10,000 or less, you can just seed with time. If you want more than 10,000 trials, you need to use a second rng which is seeded with the first rng(have to be independent of eachother), allowing for 100,000,000 trials, which should be sufficient.
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
• Posts: 822
September 22nd, 2010 at 3:55:43 PM permalink
Quote: 98steps

I would ask that the sit out period between system sessions be 100 7-outs. Would that be acceptable to everyone?

Quote: The Wizard

I can't speak for Bluejay, but I think he will say that one "session" will have to start immediately after the last one. In other words, he is not going to draw random numbers if there is no money bet. That would violate the 1-500 unit bet spread rule.

Actually, my challenge rules say that sitting out is perfectly acceptable. And I'm happy to draw random numbers until up to 100 seven-outs between sessions. System purveyors often decide to sit out when a table is running "cold", so I think in fairness I have to simulate that. I was worried that this could lead to a 100 billion-round trial which would take forever to run, but I just did a quick test and even in my (relatively slow) language of choice it would be done in four hours.

But again, if 98steps can get WinCraps to simulate what he wants, or takes Triplell up on his offer to code a sim for free, then all this is moot.
guido111
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
• Posts: 707
September 22nd, 2010 at 4:48:08 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Wait - this discussion is still going on? Is there actually some question as to whether the d'Alembert betting system can alter the EV of its component wagers?

I must agree with the above quote 100%.

Why is this thread so "tame" as opposed to other "gambling systems" threads?

Maybe we want to witness someone losing money to Mr. Bluejay so we can all say "we told you so"!

I have ran millions (seems like millions) of simulations using WinCraps over the years, and every one tells me the same thing. Not one system can show a profit after a billion rounds, not even hundreds of millions of rounds.

Someone with a lifetime of play could show a net profit at the end of their life.