pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 19th, 2015 at 1:22:03 AM permalink
Slot revenue peaked in Sep 2012. Table games keep going up year after year as they steal patrons from NYC and northern NJ, but that may change if New York gets real table games or NJ finally gives up on Atlantic City.

PA is building it's last casino in the South Side Sports Complex, but it is only 5 miles from sugarhouse Casino, and only 10 miles from Harrah's Philadelphia, which is the casino in PA that peaked the earliest, and has had revenue drop the most. So it is not clear how much more tax revenue this new casino will bring to the state, and how much it will steal from existing casinos.

What happens? Does PA go into stasis for decades?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 19th, 2015 at 2:42:53 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin



What happens? Does PA go into statiis for decades?



What happens is what has happened, casinos here are just part of everyday life and no longer a "special" place to go. It is all just normal and routine. The marketing departments need to actually come up with creative ideas. The state needs to consider lowering its 55% take on slot revenue that would embarrass even the mafia so that payouts can be raised and people will get more play for their dollar. The entertainment departments are going to need to book more acts.

But in the end, all involved need to realize that things were bound to level off.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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May 19th, 2015 at 4:56:02 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

The marketing departments need to actually come up with creative ideas. The state needs to consider lowering its 55% take on slot revenue that would embarrass even the mafia so that payouts can be raised and people will get more play for their dollar. The entertainment departments are going to need to book more acts.


Great points, right on target. I would go back to PA, but an incentive would certainly help my motivation. Where are the decent hotel rates ?

Quote: AZDuffman


But in the end, all involved need to realize that things were bound to level off.


Exactly. And add in the competition from Ohio, which would at least effect Western PA.
All around me are familiar faces / Worn out places, worn out faces / Bright and early for their daily races / Going nowhere, going nowhere - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCLnwIkkps
zoobrew
zoobrew
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May 19th, 2015 at 5:38:33 AM permalink
One problem that casinos have in newer gambling states is that they are mostly only gambling sites, the entertainment & food venues already exists so they are not large entertainment complexes you find in LV or AC. A few of the more rural casinos might have more of these items, but the ones in cities usually don't, also the city casinos usually are shut out of the convention business.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 19th, 2015 at 7:24:04 AM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

Great points, right on target. I would go back to PA, but an incentive would certainly help my motivation. Where are the decent hotel rates ?



It depend. Nemacolin Woodlands is very, very high end though you may find a sale if you go mid-week when there is no convention there, however there is zero nearby as an alternative except maybe one or two of the kind of motels you used to see on Route 66. Rivers might have good deals if there is no sports or conventions. Meadows just and I mean just now completed the bridge to the connected hotel with a few others nearby, for them I would use priceline.


Quote:

Exactly. And add in the competition from Ohio, which would at least effect Western PA.



Not sure how much that will affect things, though it might. I occasionally go to Wheeling for both a change and I feel the poker room is softer. Ohio might draw the folks north of Pittsburgh to Meadville.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
vendman1
vendman1
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May 19th, 2015 at 7:34:00 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Slot revenue peaked in Sep 2012. Table games keep going up year after year as they steal patrons from NYC and northern NJ, but that may change if New York gets real table games or NJ finally gives up on Atlantic City.

PA is building it's last casino in the South Side Sports Complex, but it is only 5 miles from sugarhouse Casino, and only 10 miles from Harrah's Philadelphia, which is the casino in PA that peaked the earliest, and has had revenue drop the most. So it is not clear how much more tax revenue this new casino will bring to the state, and how much it will steal from existing casinos.

What happens? Does PA go into statiis for decades?



At think at some point the market will reach an equilibrium, and more or less stay there until some major event changes the competitive landscape. We are getting close to a settling of the market all ready. AC is what it is now (half of what it was before). PA is settling in. The new Philly casino will just cannibalize the three all ready in the market. MD and DE have their casinos in place (with the exception of the one in PG county outside DC) and they aren't going to effect PA much. So in summary, where are PA casinos going? The answer is; no where special. It is what it is. They'll plug along for the foreseeable future, and crank out some tax dollars for the state. Barring major expansion in NY...or the complete collapse of AC I don't know what would move the needle much.
zoobrew
zoobrew
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May 19th, 2015 at 7:58:00 AM permalink
The obvious next big needle mover would be if sports betting was legalized nation wide. It would be a battle royal between the Rivers and the Rooneys.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 19th, 2015 at 8:18:28 AM permalink
Quote: zoobrew

The obvious next big needle mover would be if sports betting was legalized nation wide. It would be a battle royal between the Rivers and the Rooneys.



Please oh please let them put in a sports book! Was only in Vegas once on a football sunday, but it was just awesome! Football coming on at 10:00 AM helped for early-risers like myself, but I think the place would pack and their bar business would be way up.

STFRF. Let Dan go hang with his buddy Obama and tell the NFL that there is zero difference between "fantasy football" and rooting for a point spread.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 19th, 2015 at 8:40:59 AM permalink
Quote: vendman1

At think at some point the market will reach an equilibrium, and more or less stay there until some major event changes the competitive landscape.



It's like the famous June 20, 1955 Life Magazine cover which asked "Las Vegas - Is Boom Overextended"



The State of PA is about to finish it's tenth year of gaming. Slot revenue in year 9 compared to the maximum year revenue for years 1-9 is as follow.
The original vision of "simple slot clubs" would have peaked in revenue sometime after year seven.

With only 4 years of table games to compare, most casinos have had their peak revenue in the 4th year with Presque Isle in Erie the only notable exception. However, there is a presumption that casinos would be more concerned about growing table game revenue which is taxed at 12% instead of slot revenue which is taxed at over 50%.

PA Casino SLOTS TABLE GAMES
Harrah's Philadelphia -34.2% -7%
Presque Isle -27.3% -42%
Mount Airy -21.8% 0%
The Meadows -16.5% -17%
Penn National -13.5% -12%
parx -8.6% 0%
Mohegan Sun -8.3% 0%
SugarHouse -7.4% 0%
Statewide -6.3% 0%
Sands Bethlehem -3.6% 0%
The Rivers -2.2% -2%
Valley Forge 0.0% 0%
Nemacolin 0.0% 0%


Table game revenue is driven primarily by visitors from other states. The majority of New Jersey residents are a closer drive to a PA casino than Atlantic City.


Harrah's Philadelphia, Presque Isle, and Mount Airy are considered by some people to be outright failures
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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May 19th, 2015 at 8:56:47 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


The State of PA is about to finish it's tenth year of gaming. Slot revenue in year 9 compared to the maximum year revenue for years 1-9 is as follow.

SLOT MACHINE REVENUE LAST YEAR COMPARED TO PEAK YEAR

-27.3% Presque Isle RACINO
-2.2% The Rivers

Harrah's Philadelphia, Presque Isle, and Mount Airy are considered by some people to be outright failures


I was hoping that competition would help the consumer with better promo's, payback tables, etc. I'm not sure that it has, at least not as far as I can see. But it's all relative.
All around me are familiar faces / Worn out places, worn out faces / Bright and early for their daily races / Going nowhere, going nowhere - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdCLnwIkkps

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