GN AC vs. Darkoz

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

How would you know they are using multiple player's cards in the first place?

Using a player's card is what every patron in the casino is doing. You expect surveillance to zoom in on the card being used by every single patron and then check when they switch seats if they also switched cards?
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With refined video surveillance, video playback, some sharp eyes, and time that would be doable. I really think that there are "experts" in surveillance who could learn the "tricks" of the trade and teach others to monitor such play. Inserting Player's cards into machines is an overt act that sometimes has its difficulties. Someone using a "stack" of cards is going to have to replace the insertions often, so the player may actually have a handful of cards visible in the machine or must reach into their pocket to change them out. And, yes, I know that patrons have multiple cards on a string from multiple casinos, but sharp eyes and zoom lenses can detect. Again, one can be taught.

tuttigym
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Ah yes I see it now. Darkoz sits at one machine, pulls out all his cards, lays them down in front of him, then picks one by one, insert to the machine, and when done put it with the used pile of cards. All neat and tidy!

In all seriousness the guy doesn't use 2 cards in the same machine. You can do all the sorting in your pocket and only ever pull out one card at a time. All cards look the same except for the name and cameras or people from a distance can't discerne it. pretty hard to detect that.

Quote: tyler498

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

How would you know they are using multiple player's cards in the first place?

Using a player's card is what every patron in the casino is doing. You expect surveillance to zoom in on the card being used by every single patron and then check when they switch seats if they also switched cards?
link to original post

With refined video surveillance, video playback, some sharp eyes, and time that would be doable. I really think that there are "experts" in surveillance who could learn the "tricks" of the trade and teach others to monitor such play. Inserting Player's cards into machines is an overt act that sometimes has its difficulties. Someone using a "stack" of cards is going to have to replace the insertions often, so the player may actually have a handful of cards visible in the machine or must reach into their pocket to change them out. And, yes, I know that patrons have multiple cards on a string from multiple casinos, but sharp eyes and zoom lenses can detect. Again, one can be taught.

tuttigym
link to original post

Ah yes I see it now. Darkoz sits at one machine, pulls out all his cards, lays them down in front of him, then picks one by one, insert to the machine, and when done put it with the used pile of cards. All neat and tidy!

In all seriousness the guy doesn't use 2 cards in the same machine. You can do all the sorting in your pocket and only ever pull out one card at a time. All cards look the same except for the name and cameras or people from a distance can't discerne it. pretty hard to detect that.
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Yes I just caught what he was suggesting Of course I only pull out one card at a time and if I do need to pull for sorting purposes more than one card a quick trip to the crapper in the men's room provides privacy

BTW, a team of players did switch out cards and hold them openly in their hands and use them in the same machine without switching seats. Eventually they got caught at that casino(not the Valley Forge)

So it's not out of someone mind to suggest such craziness. I even have a name for such stupidity. I call it "card flipping". Years later I would learn in the Resorts World lawsuit that surveillance calls it ,"card dipping".

But I prefer calling it card flipping. They literally would flip a player's card out with one hand and flip a second card into the slots (actually it was E-Craps and they were trying to make points for Freeplay specials by wagering with a partner doey don't. The E-Craps had only nine seats so I understood why they didn't switch seats but these guys were just over the top nonchalant.
Anyway security surrounded them right at the E-Craps)

I never card flip. I'm not exposing more than one card at s time. In fact it's why I had the cliffhanger with the jackpot. With only a handful of VBJ at the bar in order not to card flip, especially on a busy day where the bar seats were full, I had to switch to slots occasionally.

Quote: darkoz

Yes I just caught what he was suggesting Of course I only pull out one card at s time and if I do need to pull for sorting purposes more than one card s quick trip to the crapper in the men's room provides privacy

BTW, a team of players did switch out cards and hold them openly in their hands and use them in the same machine without switching seats. Eventually they got caught at that casino.

So it's not out of someone mind to suggest such craziness. I even have a name for such stupidity. I call it "card flipping". Years later I would learn in the Resorts World lawsuit that surveillance calls it ,"card dipping".

But I prefer calling it card flipping. They literally would flip a player's card out with one hand and flip a second card into the slots (actually it was E-Craps and they were trying to make points for Freeplay specials by wagering with a partner doey don't. The E-Craps had only nine seats so I understood why they didn't switch seats but these guys were just over the top nonchalant.
Anyway security surrounded them right at the E-Craps)

I never card flip. I'm not exposing more than one card at s time. In fact it's why I had the cliffhanger with the jackpot. With only a handful of VBJ at the bar in order not to card flip, especially on a busy day where the bar seats were full, I had to switch to slots occasionally.
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I've seen a husband/wife team use a dozen cards at a must hit.
if a hand pay, they leave after being paid no matter how high the must hit is. (thus why i'm camping)

i guess in their minds, they now have eyes on them and don't want to risk switching out cards any more.

and based on what you said, i'm shocked they havent been caught already.
i'm assuming there's a pattern of the same dozen or so cards one after another.

We've all seen old folks -- and primarily this happens with old folks -- swiping cards at kiosks to get offers for spouses, friends, relatives.

I was behind one lady at Suncoast... and after she swiped the fifth card I asked her: "please I just have one card today."

The elders do it for their retiree buddies who cant make it on senior day.

You never hear about casinos stopping this.

Quote: AlanMendelson

We've all seen old folks -- and primarily this happens with old folks -- swiping cards at kiosks to get offers for spouses, friends, relatives.

I was behind one lady at Suncoast... and after she swiped the fifth card I asked her: "please I just have one card today."

The elders do it for their retiree buddies who cant make it on senior day.

You never hear about casinos stopping this.
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hm.. the huband/wife team i mentioned in previous post do look like they were of retirement age. (but not nursing/funeral home age)

A homeowner sees a lone ant racing across his deck. He does nothing. a few days later, he sees a steady stream of ants marching across his deck. He is entertained by them.
The next day he turns on the lights and sees a cockroach scramble under the kitchen counter. He's on the phone making money so the roach is a distraction. A week goes by and this time, when he turns on the lights he sees dozens of roaches, and some have gotten into his favorite pie. He calls an exterminator.
The end.

Quote: billryan

A homeowner sees a lone ant racing across his deck. He does nothing. a few days later, he sees a steady stream of ants marching across his deck. He is entertained by them.
The next day he turns on the lights and sees a cockroach scramble under the kitchen counter. He's on the phone making money so the roach is a distraction. A week goes by and this time, when he turns on the lights he sees dozens of roaches, and some have gotten into his favorite pie. He calls an exterminator.
The end.
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Lol, while I find comparing AP's to roaches disturbing, the analogy may be fitting.

As any homeowner knows, the roaches are only gone for awhile. Eventually they sneak back under the radar while no one is paying attention.

Wash, repeat. Not quite the end.

Part fourteen:

I left you guys on a cliffhanger. I was seated at a slot machine in my mask and the blue message on the screen that I had won a jackpot and required a handpay threatened my entire operation. It was the end of November, past Thanksgiving day!

I admit my first thought was indeed to run out the casino. It's human nature. I quickly doused that madness. For one thing, I still wasn't committing any crimes (it's not even a crime to wear a mask or be in disguise as evidenced by lots of card counters who have changed their appearance over the years). If I was going to be evicted, I sure as hell was going to insist I get paid that final $2000 jackpot. Why would anyone leave their cash behind?

There is a video on YouTube about a coin counterfeiting ring back when slots used tokens. These were so good they couldn't be differentiated from the real thing. The casinos only knew they had counterfeit coins because their counts were extremely high. One day, a patron coin malfunctioned and the patron just left. The investigator said that's our guy. No regular patron leaves behind a lost coin.

They did catch the guy due to an abandoned dollar coin. No way was I going to abandon a $2000 jackpot and expect my operation not to crash and burn. That would be shining a spotlight that I needed to be investigated?

Lucky for me, (if you remember) I had my girlfriend with me on this trip. She was doing some of the cards herself so she was somewhere near on the gaming floor. But when I grabbed my phone I saw the unread message that she had returned to the hotel room.

I dialed her and she mercifully picked up on the third ring. "I need you immediately. Got an emergency. I need you to claim a jackpot for me."

Her response was simple and quick. She was on her way. She was proving to be a real trooper. We had only been seeing each other a short time. By the time my house was burglarized two years later she was one of my most trusted workers and you may recall her being mentioned in that part of my life. We don't date anymore but she still holds a high position on my team. It's difficult to find trustworthy and savvy and dedicated people like her.

Now I just had to hope she arrived in time for us to swap seats. I estimated I had five minutes for her to take that long walk down the interconnected hallway from the hotel.

The gaming floor was pretty busy and being small, the Valley Forge only had a skeleton staff of slot attendants at any given time. I patiently sat in my seat proverbially holding my breath. (And of course I had long pocketed the players card as if you have to ask.)

But after three minutes, my girlfriend not arrived yet, I heard the business voice of the slot attendant giving me the traditional, "Congratulations, sir".

You probably think I was now sunk but Advantage Player's always think fast on their feet(or seated in their chair). "Thanks, but it's not my jackpot. I'm just holding the seat for my friend. She realized she left her ID in the hotel room. She's already walking back."

The attendant was friendly and instructed me to call him over when she got back. Crisis averted!

You may ask wouldn't he be suspicious and check the camera to see who had really hit the jackpot? The answer is no. When two people are CLAIMING the same jackpot it's obviously suspect and wrong. My explanation brought back into his mind those disputes and I wasn't TRYING to make a claim. I was protecting my friend from being victimized by an opportunistic patron. In his mind, I was on the honest side of the fence.

Ten or twenty minutes later my girlfriend and I were back in our hotel room and I was giving my girlfriend a $500 bonus for claiming the jackpot. And before you ask, I instructed her to have the casino take out her Federal so she wouldn't have a problem come tax time either. If she wound up with a refund that's an end of year bonus from me.

You probably are wondering what I would have done had she not been available, if I were to be stuck without anyone to claim the jackpot? I've thought about that. I would have told the slot attendant that I left my wallet at home with all my Identification. He would then have taken a physical description of me and I would have supplied a fake name and social. He would have supplied me with some sort of receipt for me to return for my claim upon getting my identification. And that old man would never have returned to the Valley Forge to claim it. I would have abandoned in essence the jackpot but not given up the more coveted operation.

Back in the hotel room, my girlfriend was hyped at her part in the shenanigans, not to mention her bonus but I was quite concerned. I suspected this may be the beginning of the end. That jackpot was won on freeplay. It may have caused the card to be flagged or even pin locked.

My girlfriend was comforting. "You don't know that. Stop thinking the worst."

"I'm being pragmatic. Not pessimistic! You're still new to this game. You don't know what heat the casino can bring to bear."

"Well, how serious do you think it is?"

Quite dramatically, I stated, "We are now on code red high alert!"

My girlfriend just laughed. "This whole month has been code red high alert!"

I waved my hands flustered. "Well now it's code ultra violet, stratosphere, you know, that color you can't see with the naked eye alert!"

But the next day, our last for that weeks freeplay offers was quiet again. I walked in, I took the offers in that same mask, I left.

The next couple of days would be spent in New York as there wasn't any freeplay (it was only five days a week). By the time I checked back into the Valley Forge's hotel, again under my own name, it was now into December. Would there be problems? Perhaps they just needed a few days to check on that jackpot with the freeplay claimed by someone whose name didn't match? Back in my mask I traveled that long hallway with trepidation.

But again, the war with the Valley Forge was once again quiet. I took the freeplay. Everything was there including the freeplay from the card I won the jackpot on. By this point I was well into profit mode. All was quiet on the Eastern Front.

It was now four whole weeks since I had been backroomed. Three whole weeks since I had everyone unlock their pins after their cards had been confiscated and I had resumed using cards that by all intents and purposes would or should have been flagged!

Five weeks into the operation in total!

It was December 7th, a day that always lived in infamy.

My girlfriend was wrapping up a few days with me. She actually told me I was too cautious and negative thinking. The operation was moving along smoothly, wasn't it?

She helped me do the cards that morning. But I held back on three players cards. One was her mom's and the other two belonged to her sisters. I held back because my girlfriend was going home that afternoon and unlike me, she had no stomach for a four hour bus trip to New York. She had convinced/coerced her mom to drive and pick her up.

Her sisters were coming along for the ride. I figured they could enjoy that days freeplay and then we could all eat on their food comps. But when they arrived they had to leave right away. My girlfriend mom was tired after work and just wanted to return home.

So I waved them goodbye. I was avoiding lunch waiting for them for dinner so after I bid them goodbye in the Valley Forge parking lot, I went to the food court and ordered the Pad Thai(Valley Forge had really good Pad Thai), and of course I didn't do all this in a mask. If I wasn't doing offers, I was roaming the casino like normal.

I went back to my room, donned the mask again and returned to the gaming area. I had to do the Freeplay on my girlfriend mom and sisters cards since they had to hit the road so precipitously.

I was on the third card, my girlfriend mom, when an arm reached over my shoulder and yanked out the players card. I was seated at the bar playing VBJ so my first thought was some drunk was overstepping his bounds.

I turned to ask what the idea behind grabbing my card out was but the words never were uttered. My card had been yanked by a suited executive. He looked at the name and said, "this is a female card. This isn't your card. Where's the player?"

The irony didn't escape me that of all the cards to get caught with, that player had literally been at the casino that day.

No point in mentioning that. If I hadn't gone to lunch, maybe, just maybe I could have called them to turn around and make an appearance. But they were halfway to New York by now.

I cashed out the VBJ machine and said, "it's not my card but I am leaving if you don't mind."

"No, you can't leave. I just caught you with someone else's card!"

"That person gave me permission to use it and I haven't committed any crime!"

By this point two other executive suits had arrived. It was fast. Too fast for this to have been a chance encounter. But one of the executives who arrived overheard the conversation.

"No, if he wants to leave he can. We can't hold anyone unless they've actually committed a crime."

I couldn't believe I was actually hearing some intelligence and logic being surrounded but these weren't security guards. These were executives. Not suited heads like the slots department head or the head of security. These weren't fancy suited outfits. They wore the fancy high cost outfits of higher ups.

"Then, I am leaving. Good day."

I made about three steps passed them, my mind reeling that a miracle was about to happen if I literally just walked out without a backrooming and then I heard a familiar and not welcome voice to my left. But, it wasn't the familiarity that sent a chill down my spine.

The voice had addressed me!

I mean, literally addressed ME!

"Hello, Mr. Darkoz!". (Well, you know he didn't call me Darkoz)

I turned because my eyesight is prohibitive in the mask, the latex hindering peripheral vision. I turned and there was that same male state trooper who one month earlier had first greeted me coming out the men's room.
He was standing not five feet from me.

He smiled like a shark when I turned, and I realized my mistake. I had just turned to the sound of my name.

The state trooper confidently addressed me, now nodding his head with certainty. "You are Mister Darkoz. Aren't you?"

To be continued.

Instead of saying:

"That person gave me permission to use it and I haven't committed any crime!"

Why not just say...

"I didnt notice it. I dont play with a card."

Quote: AlanMendelson

Instead of saying:

"That person gave me permission to use it and I haven't committed any crime!"

Why not just say...

"I didnt notice it. I dont play with a card."
link to original post

That doesn't work when it's on downloaded freeplay.

If it was cash I could claim I sat down and put my money in the machine and didn't notice a player card in the slot reader

With freeplay I have to admit I downloaded it and had permission. Otherwise I am admitting to sitting down at a machine with credits on it and playing that out.

Which has worse ramifications of course.

How would they know you were using free play?

Quote: AlanMendelson

How would they know you were using free play?
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Didn't you read the report from the Valley Forge just last post? They can follow exactly what, amount of freeplay is being downloaded at what machine and on whose account remotely from surveillance.

But they have to be looking for it. They don't check hundreds of thousands of patrons downloaded freeplay.

Obviously if they were surrounding me and a state trooper was calling me by name they knew I was using freeplay.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Instead of saying:

"That person gave me permission to use it and I haven't committed any crime!"

Why not just say...

"I didnt notice it. I dont play with a card."
link to original post

That doesn't work when it's on downloaded freeplay.

If it was cash I could claim I sat down and put my money in the machine and didn't notice a player card in the slot reader

With freeplay I have to admit I downloaded it and had permission. Otherwise I am admitting to sitting down at a machine with credits on it and playing that out.

Which has worse ramifications of course.
link to original post

Another great installement! looking forward to the next.
Can I ask, what are the ramifications? Asking for a friend who may have once sat down and found over 500$ left on a machine!!!

Quote: tyler498

Quote: darkoz

Quote: AlanMendelson

Instead of saying:

"That person gave me permission to use it and I haven't committed any crime!"

Why not just say...

"I didnt notice it. I dont play with a card."
link to original post

That doesn't work when it's on downloaded freeplay.

If it was cash I could claim I sat down and put my money in the machine and didn't notice a player card in the slot reader

With freeplay I have to admit I downloaded it and had permission. Otherwise I am admitting to sitting down at a machine with credits on it and playing that out.

Which has worse ramifications of course.
link to original post

Another great installement! looking forward to the next.
Can I ask, what are the ramifications? Asking for a friend who may have once sat down and found over 500$ left on a machine!!!
link to original post

In most states it's theft.

Average people think of lost and found. You lost it, I found it. But casinos have cameras. Their thinking is they can get the money to it's rightful owner.

If you are caught taking money or gambling credits that doesn't belong to you then a crime of theft and a court date is what you may be facing.

I played $350 left on a slot at Caesars Palace. No one arrested me. Go ahead and turn me in.

A few months ago at Red Rock a lady slot player found $1200 wound up with a rubber band on the floor and the slot attendant told her to keep it.

Darkoz are you sure they knew you downloaded free play? Or were they checking cards on machines to identify players for hosts to approach them?

I got my first Host at Caesars while playing $5 slots. He walked up to me and said Hi Alan.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I played $350 left on a slot at Caesars Palace. No one arrested me. Go ahead and turn me in.

A few months ago at Red Rock a lady slot player found $1200 wound up with a rubber band on the floor and the slot attendant told her to keep it.

Darkoz are you sure they knew you downloaded free play? Or were they checking cards on machines to identify players for hosts to approach them?

I got my first Host at Caesars while playing $5 slots. He walked up to me and said Hi Alan.
link to original post

I absolutely 100% know.

They don't bother walking around looking for player's to notify hosts. That's just crazy.

And whether you have not been caught playing on someone else's credits doesn't change the illegality of it.

I confess (in the most innocent manner) to actually leaving behind $1300 after hitting a $16,000 must hit. It had been a long battle to win it and I forgot I had credits in the machine.

Someone walked off with the money before I returned for it. THAT PERSON has been identified now and has a trial set for this July. Where I will be testifying via Zoom against that person.

What surprises me is over the years many of the same people who find it incredulous that my use of other players cards isn't illegal are guilty themselves of felonies when taking abandoned slot credits.

I'm not speaking directly about you Alan. I find most people get those two situations completely backwards as to their legality.

At the time I didnt know it was illegal. It was more than 20 years ago.

Me, my sister and her husband just came off a craps session. We sat down at slot machines.

I played a machine next to the one with $350.

After about a half-hour no one came by.

So... I played the $350... and prepared to give $350 to anyone who came by saying they forgot about the money. No one did.

But the Red Rock incident really just happened a couple of months ago. We talked about it at a craps table. All of the dealers and the boxman agreed... keep it.

Quote: AlanMendelson

At the time I didnt know it was illegal. It was more than 20 years ago.

Me, my sister and her husband just came off a craps session. We sat down at slot machines.

I played a machine next to the one with $350.

After about a half-hour no one came by.

So... I played the $350... and prepared to give $350 to anyone who came by saying they forgot about the money. No one did.

But the Red Rock incident really just happened a couple of months ago. We talked about it at a craps table. All of the dealers and the boxman agreed... keep it.
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I believe you about the Red Rock Craps incident. Unfortunately it was really bad advice on their part.

I imagine if you lost your wallet or if a woman left her purse or even a cell phone or library book at a slot machine, you would have some expectation that it might pop up at the casinos lost and found (which is usually the main security podium at most casino properties) and you would be pretty miffed if the security officer told you the Craps dealer told some stranger they could keep it.

Quote: darkoz

In most states it's theft.

Average people think of lost and found. You lost it, I found it. But casinos have cameras. Their thinking is they can get the money to it's rightful owner.

If you are caught taking money or gambling credits that doesn't belong to you then a crime of theft and a court date is what you may be facing.
link to original post

A while back my girlfriend absentmindedly left $200+ in a machine she was playing. She later realized her mistake went back to the machine, but the money has been cashed out. I believe we were in Vegas, but I do not remember which casino. We went to security and told them of our plight. A couple of hours later, they called us and returned the money. We were very impressed and very grateful.

tuttigym

Today, knowing better, I would alert a floor person if I found hundreds of dollars on a machine.

But I admit I look on the ground in the parking lot for yellow chips that might be around.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Today, knowing better, I would alert a floor person if I found hundreds of dollars on a machine.

But I admit I look on the ground in the parking lot for yellow chips that might be around.
link to original post

There are worse reasons to go for a walk and get some exercise. ;)

Quote: AlanMendelson

I played $350 left on a slot at Caesars Palace. No one arrested me. Go ahead and turn me in.


At the time I didnt know it was illegal. It was more than 20 years ago.

I was getting ready to turn you in, but I determined that the statute of limitations had run. Oh, well, maybe next time.

tuttigym

Thanks, darkoz, I look forward to more!

As to the discussion about found money or credits… In Nevada, casinos are allowed to keep abandoned credits. I assume that includes dropped cash but not sure. At one time, they got to keep the entire amount and merely had to report the total to Gaming, probably monthly or quarterly. Sometime in the last decade or so, the law changed. Any amount over $5 (?) has to be retained by the casino for a period of time (months?) in case the rightful owner returns, AND Gaming gets a sizable cut (more than half?) of all the small tickets and the unclaimed larger ones.

Whoops! The reason I bring it up, is that casinos seemed to be pretty tight about it before the change, but now it such a hassle for the lesser amount they keep that they don’t seem to care much anymore. Please don’t read this as “no more heat”. as you could still have legal issues or get 86’d. I may have just noticed a pattern that doesn’t exist! lol

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

In most states it's theft.

Average people think of lost and found. You lost it, I found it. But casinos have cameras. Their thinking is they can get the money to it's rightful owner.

If you are caught taking money or gambling credits that doesn't belong to you then a crime of theft and a court date is what you may be facing.
link to original post

A while back my girlfriend absentmindedly left $200+ in a machine she was playing. She later realized her mistake went back to the machine, but the money has been cashed out. I believe we were in Vegas, but I do not remember which casino. We went to security and told them of our plight. A couple of hours later, they called us and returned the money. We were very impressed and very grateful.

tuttigym
link to original post

This happened to Mrs Mosca at Mohegan Pocono, for something like $90 or so; close to $100, but not over. We went to security and they basically shrugged their shoulders at us.

Quote: camapl

Thanks, darkoz, I look forward to more!

As to the discussion about found money or credits… In Nevada, casinos are allowed to keep abandoned credits. I assume that includes dropped cash but not sure. At one time, they got to keep the entire amount and merely had to report the total to Gaming, probably monthly or quarterly. Sometime in the last decade or so, the law changed. Any amount over $5 (?) has to be retained by the casino for a period of time (months?) in case the rightful owner returns, AND Gaming gets a sizable cut (more than half?) of all the small tickets and the unclaimed larger ones.
link to original post

In Nevada the casino must turn in to the gaming board 75% of uncashed TITO tickets, they can keep 25% for administrative costs.

Quote: DRich

Quote: camapl

Thanks, darkoz, I look forward to more!

As to the discussion about found money or credits… In Nevada, casinos are allowed to keep abandoned credits. I assume that includes dropped cash but not sure. At one time, they got to keep the entire amount and merely had to report the total to Gaming, probably monthly or quarterly. Sometime in the last decade or so, the law changed. Any amount over $5 (?) has to be retained by the casino for a period of time (months?) in case the rightful owner returns, AND Gaming gets a sizable cut (more than half?) of all the small tickets and the unclaimed larger ones.
link to original post

In Nevada the casino must turn in to the gaming board 75% of uncashed TITO tickets, they can keep 25% for administrative costs.
link to original post

Good to know.

I think this is turning into a very informative thread. I always knew there was going to be info I supplied from my adventures, like surveillance tactics, etc, but it's good to see other info being discussed.

Quote: darkoz

Part fourteen:

Ten or twenty minutes later my girlfriend and I were back in our hotel room and I was giving my girlfriend a $500 bonus for claiming the jackpot. And before you ask, I instructed her to have the casino take out her Federal so she wouldn't have a problem come tax time either. If she wound up with a refund that's an end of year bonus from me.

This paragraph allows me some curiosities. Except for the occasional jackpots you might have won during the years this story encompasses, I believe that the vast majority of winnings, i.e., the average of $20,000 per week would be federal and state income tax free because the cashed out tickets from the slots would be well under to threshold for W2G's issued by any casino. I know you stated that you did NOT win $20,000 each week, but the overall amounts were substantial. Correct? So what happens when you deposit, in your bank, these large sums, or how do you manage such deposits without the feds knowing?

Don't the casinos know about the reward card's activity, and can't they determine how much each card played and the actual cashed out amounts?

So if I am a casino manager and have the ability to track such activity, and we are losing thousands of $$$ why wouldn't I first, send out a bunch of W2G's regardless of size to those card holders, and two, close down the cards and inform marketing to cease and desist the offers?

tuttigym

A bigger problem is self service checkouts at stores and supermarkets.

Almost every time I'm in my local supermarket someone is there saying they forgot their change.

The problem is that the change portals are hard to see for both coins and bills.

I hate them.

Quote: DRich

Quote: camapl

Thanks, darkoz, I look forward to more!

As to the discussion about found money or credits… In Nevada, casinos are allowed to keep abandoned credits. I assume that includes dropped cash but not sure. At one time, they got to keep the entire amount and merely had to report the total to Gaming, probably monthly or quarterly. Sometime in the last decade or so, the law changed. Any amount over $5 (?) has to be retained by the casino for a period of time (months?) in case the rightful owner returns, AND Gaming gets a sizable cut (more than half?) of all the small tickets and the unclaimed larger ones.
link to original post

In Nevada the casino must turn in to the gaming board 75% of uncashed TITO tickets, they can keep 25% for administrative costs.
link to original post

Just to clarify, what becomes of the money when gaming gets it? Does it go to the states general fund or is it distributed to local charity?
Is the 25% administrative fee capped at some point?
Does this apply to sports bets also? If I won $500,000 on the super bowl but never collected the ticket, would that money go to the state?

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

Part fourteen:

Ten or twenty minutes later my girlfriend and I were back in our hotel room and I was giving my girlfriend a $500 bonus for claiming the jackpot. And before you ask, I instructed her to have the casino take out her Federal so she wouldn't have a problem come tax time either. If she wound up with a refund that's an end of year bonus from me.

This paragraph allows me some curiosities. Except for the occasional jackpots you might have won during the years this story encompasses, I believe that the vast majority of winnings, i.e., the average of $20,000 per week would be federal and state income tax free because the cashed out tickets from the slots would be well under to threshold for W2G's issued by any casino. I know you stated that you did NOT win $20,000 each week, but the overall amounts were substantial. Correct? So what happens when you deposit, in your bank, these large sums, or how do you manage such deposits without the feds knowing?

Don't the casinos know about the reward card's activity, and can't they determine how much each card played and the actual cashed out amounts?

So if I am a casino manager and have the ability to track such activity, and we are losing thousands of $$$ why wouldn't I first, send out a bunch of W2G's regardless of size to those card holders, and two, close down the cards and inform marketing to cease and desist the offers?

tuttigym
link to original post

Your first question:

As for feds not knowing. You left out possibility three. I actually pay my taxes. The Feds are aware of my income.

Some people find that shocking but as you can see my biggest strength as an Advantage Player is the casinos can't prosecute me for any crime since I stay above the law.

Wouldn't make sense for me to not get prosecuted by casinos and instead go to jail for tax evasion

Your second question:

Yes if they are tracking the data. Most systems are automated. Understand that I am not the only customer who uses freeplay. Pretty much every patron uses freeplay. So unless they intend to track hundreds of thousands of accounts they are just going to leave it automated.

Some places like the Golden Nugget have begun this intense tracking. That doesn't leave them invulnerable. But it makes it harder.

Your third question:

If you were a casino manager and you sent out W2-G documents to customers in the mail that hadn't won jackpots and you just wanted to make a claim they owed taxes based on some aggregate amount (and from free items no less) I think the authorities would be interested. But not in the patrons. They would be investigating you!

Quote: billryan

Just to clarify, what becomes of the money when gaming gets it? Does it go to the states general fund or is it distributed to local charity?
Is the 25% administrative fee capped at some point?
Does this apply to sports bets also? If I won $500,000 on the super bowl but never collected the ticket, would that money go to the state?
link to original post

It depends on the jurisdiction.
I believe in Nevada, unclaimed vouchers are redeemed by the casino after 180 days and 75% ends up in the state general fund.
Assume that every state and tribe is different.
Pennsylvania is apparently very different - 3 years, and then the state will return it to the player if they ever claim it.

I was asking about Nevada, as I recall some controversy in Laughlin about the casinos supposedly donating to local charities.

Quote: darkoz

Your first question:

As for feds not knowing. You left out possibility three. I actually pay my taxes. The Feds are aware of my income.

I did not infer that you didn't pay your taxes. You are a smart and savvy individual that surely knows that a "taxable event" officially occurs when the IRS is notified by W2G's, 1099's, or other forms of official documentations with duplications sent to the individuals who perpetrated the "event." Therefore, individuals who receive free play and who play out these offers and win sums of $$ that do not exceed the threshold of $1199 or whatever have not officially committed a "taxable event."

Quote: darkoz

Some people find that shocking but as you can see my biggest strength as an Advantage Player is the casinos can't prosecute me for any crime since I stay above the law.

Wouldn't make sense for me to not get prosecuted by casinos and instead go to jail for tax evasion

I fully agree.

Quote: darkoz

Your second question:

Yes if they are tracking the data. Most systems are automated. Understand that I am not the only customer who uses freeplay. Pretty much every patron uses freeplay. So unless they intend to track hundreds of thousands of accounts they are just going to leave it automated.

Some places like the Golden Nugget have begun this intense tracking. That doesn't leave them invulnerable. But it makes it harder.

Perhaps but tracking player coin in as opposed to free play play coin out would seem to be relatively easy and tracking frequency as oppose to "casual" patron play whittles down the tracking possibilities.

Quote: darkoz

Your third question:

If you were a casino manager and you sent out W2-G documents to customers in the mail that hadn't won jackpots and you just wanted to make a claim they owed taxes based on some aggregate amount (and from free items no less) I think the authorities would be interested. But not in the patrons. They would be investigating you!

W2-G's are a statement of fact easily proved by any casino and difficult to disprove by any recipient. If one were to think about it, casino patrons receive, in total, perhaps billions of untaxed $$$ in the form of free play wins. I am not suggesting that casinos should send W2-G's to all patrons receiving free play that would be a disaster/nightmare for the casino. However, if the casino(s) could identify through surveillance and/or tracking those individuals who are the "frequent flyers," sending out multiple W2-G's throughout the course of a year as well as to identifiable "crew" members should create enough headaches that could curtail such activity.

tuttigym

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

Your first question:

As for feds not knowing. You left out possibility three. I actually pay my taxes. The Feds are aware of my income.

I did not infer that you didn't pay your taxes. You are a smart and savvy individual that surely knows that a "taxable event" officially occurs when the IRS is notified by W2G's, 1099's, or other forms of official documentations with duplications sent to the individuals who perpetrated the "event." Therefore, individuals who receive free play and who play out these offers and win sums of $$ that do not exceed the threshold of $1199 or whatever have not officially committed a "taxable event."

Quote: darkoz

Some people find that shocking but as you can see my biggest strength as an Advantage Player is the casinos can't prosecute me for any crime since I stay above the law.

Wouldn't make sense for me to not get prosecuted by casinos and instead go to jail for tax evasion

I fully agree.

Quote: darkoz

Your second question:

Yes if they are tracking the data. Most systems are automated. Understand that I am not the only customer who uses freeplay. Pretty much every patron uses freeplay. So unless they intend to track hundreds of thousands of accounts they are just going to leave it automated.

Some places like the Golden Nugget have begun this intense tracking. That doesn't leave them invulnerable. But it makes it harder.

Perhaps but tracking player coin in as opposed to free play play coin out would seem to be relatively easy and tracking frequency as oppose to "casual" patron play whittles down the tracking possibilities.

Quote: darkoz

Your third question:

If you were a casino manager and you sent out W2-G documents to customers in the mail that hadn't won jackpots and you just wanted to make a claim they owed taxes based on some aggregate amount (and from free items no less) I think the authorities would be interested. But not in the patrons. They would be investigating you!

W2-G's are a statement of fact easily proved by any casino and difficult to disprove by any recipient. If one were to think about it, casino patrons receive, in total, perhaps billions of untaxed $$$ in the form of free play wins. I am not suggesting that casinos should send W2-G's to all patrons receiving free play that would be a disaster/nightmare for the casino. However, if the casino(s) could identify through surveillance and/or tracking those individuals who are the "frequent flyers," sending out multiple W2-G's throughout the course of a year as well as to identifiable "crew" members should create enough headaches that could curtail such activity.

tuttigym
link to original post

No, sending out W2-G for aggregate wins is simply illegal on the part of the casino and wrong in so many ways.

There are a number of aspects here.

Number one is gaming law says whoever pushes the button regardless of freeplay or not is the true winner. Sending out W2-G documents would be claiming winners of the people who didn't push the button.

Second, whoever is paid with a W2-G has to give their signature. All W2-G wins you are required to sign.

Three the casino is required to obtain social security number for W2-G. Casinos do not ask for social just for joining the rewards club. Without social security number any W2-G would be worthless and invalid.

Four aggregate wins are not W2-G document worthy. Any attempt to make aggregate amounts add up would be illegal. You stated disproving a W2-G is difficult. Not if it's done through the mail. Where are the social security numbers, where are the signatures, where are the specific machine wins (machine number, wager amount and date and time are on W2-G, and if enough patrons claim they didn't win jackpots where is the video evidence?

Five freeplay isn't taxable to begin with if it's based on past play. IRS considers it a rebate the same as free hotels and free food. You don't think people should have to pay income tax on free hotels do you?

Six If the casinos could send aggregate W2-G documents for jackpots not won then that would create a money laundering wet dream. Trick a casino into sending W2-G documents and bam, money launderers have solid proof of income.

It is a shame we live in a country where supposedly upright and moral citizens seem so intent on not paying their share of taxes.
It seems some operate under the belief that if no one sees them take the cookie, it isn't really stealing.
What's even sadder if some seem to think falsely reporting problematic customers to tax authorities is a legitimate alternative to actually protecting one's business. Is it that surprising they raised a generation of Karens?
If a business is tired of a few customers coming in and only spending money on Happy Hour pricing, why not cause them headaches? Maybe report them to the IRS on made-up nonsense, or how about calling 911 and reporting drug activity? Heck, if you are willing to file false tax documents, what's a white lie to a cop or two. Maybe a call to La Migra.

As I stated, you are a smart and savvy individual. Thank you for making me aware.

tuttigym

Quote: billryan

It is a shame we live in a country where supposedly upright and moral citizens seem so intent on not paying their share of taxes.
It seems some operate under the belief that if no one sees them take the cookie, it isn't really stealing.
What's even sadder if some seem to think falsely reporting problematic customers to tax authorities is a legitimate alternative to actually protecting one's business. Is it that surprising they raised a generation of Karens?
If a business is tired of a few customers coming in and only spending money on Happy Hour pricing, why not cause them headaches? Maybe report them to the IRS on made-up nonsense, or how about calling 911 and reporting drug activity? Heck, if you are willing to file false tax documents, what's a white lie to a cop or two. Maybe a call to La Migra.
link to original post

I agree totally with you here.

Tuttigym is suggesting to stop the legal use of other people rewards cards, the casino should start illegally falsifying tax documents.

Irony, anyone?

Quote: tuttigym

As I stated, you are a smart and savvy individual. Thank you for making me aware.

tuttigym
link to original post

That's what gambling forums are for. I have learned a lot on WOV as well.

Your welcome.

Quote: billryan

It is a shame we live in a country where supposedly upright and moral citizens seem so intent on not paying their share of taxes.

Really, so, what is "their share"?

Quote: billryan

It seems some operate under the belief that if no one sees them take the cookie, it isn't really stealing.
What's even sadder if some seem to think falsely reporting problematic customers to tax authorities is a legitimate alternative to actually protecting one's business. Is it that surprising they raised a generation of Karens?

Falsely reporting anything to authorities is a crime. "Karens"??

Quote: billryan

If a business is tired of a few customers coming in and only spending money on Happy Hour pricing, why not cause them headaches? Maybe report them to the IRS on made-up nonsense, or how about calling 911 and reporting drug activity? Heck, if you are willing to file false tax documents, what's a white lie to a cop or two. Maybe a call to La Migra.
link to original post

See above. The premise you describe is more easily solved then by lawbreaking.

tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

I agree totally with you here.

Tuttigym is suggesting to stop the legal use of other people rewards cards, the casino should start illegally falsifying tax documents.

Irony, anyone?
link to original post

Not so. I was suggesting that if the casinos are so intent with stopping sophisticated AP's hitting them for thousands of $$$, that was creating unjustified losses (my words), then they could perhaps find ways to ferret out those individuals and exclude them. Didn't you post that the GN is becoming more sophisticated in tracking down some of these people? To what end? Exclusion? They are a costly nuisance in their corporate eyes.

tuttigym

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: billryan

It is a shame we live in a country where supposedly upright and moral citizens seem so intent on not paying their share of taxes.

Really, so, what is "their share"?

link to original post

Friendly caution that this is trending towards a controversial argument.

Mine was a statement, not an argument.

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

I agree totally with you here.

Tuttigym is suggesting to stop the legal use of other people rewards cards, the casino should start illegally falsifying tax documents.

Irony, anyone?
link to original post

Not so. I was suggesting that if the casinos are so intent with stopping sophisticated AP's hitting them for thousands of $$$, that was creating unjustified losses (my words), then they could perhaps find ways to ferret out those individuals and exclude them. Didn't you post that the GN is becoming more sophisticated in tracking down some of these people? To what end? Exclusion? They are a costly nuisance in their corporate eyes.

tuttigym
link to original post

They do that already.

But they can't do it with falsifying W2-G documents.

Casinos never want the type of activity I do. But first they have to detect it.

Case in point. One casino I hit figured out what I was doing. They instituted major protocols to prevent me from doing it.

These protocols were so stringent they felt confident they were rid of me.

I figured out protocols, how to circumvent them and then slammed that casino for more while they felt supremely confident they got rid of me.

The irony is they wound up relaxing their rules eventually. Why? Because it annoyed the regular customers too and they were losing business.

Quote: billryan

Mine was a statement, not an argument.
link to original post

Riding the razor's edge.....

Over ambiguous "statement"(s) should be clarified and specifically defined.

tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: darkoz

I agree totally with you here.

Tuttigym is suggesting to stop the legal use of other people rewards cards, the casino should start illegally falsifying tax documents.

Irony, anyone?
link to original post

Not so. I was suggesting that if the casinos are so intent with stopping sophisticated AP's hitting them for thousands of $$$, that was creating unjustified losses (my words), then they could perhaps find ways to ferret out those individuals and exclude them. Didn't you post that the GN is becoming more sophisticated in tracking down some of these people? To what end? Exclusion? They are a costly nuisance in their corporate eyes.

tuttigym
link to original post

They do that already.

But they can't do it with falsifying W2-G documents.

Casinos never want the type of activity I do. But first they have to detect it.

Case in point. One casino I hit figured out what I was doing. They instituted major protocols to prevent me from doing it.

These protocols were so stringent they felt confident they were rid of me.

I figured out protocols, how to circumvent them and then slammed that casino for more while they felt supremely confident they got rid of me.

The irony is they wound up relaxing their rules eventually. Why? Because it annoyed the regular customers too and they were losing business.
link to original post

Playing devil's advocate with questions and creative ideas can bring clarity and education.

tuttigym

Part fifteen:

To recap, I was in the Valley Forge on December 7th, 2016, in my mask collecting offers. It was five weeks into my operation. Four weeks since I had been backroomed for using multiple cards but not evicted. Three weeks since I had brought down all the people who's cards had been confiscated and resumed using them again. And about a week and a half since I won a jackpot in my mask and required the timely save by my girlfriend.

All the cards still were working. And now I was surrounded by casino executives and the state trooper who first backroomed me a month earlier and he was calling my name while in disguise.

He nodded knowingly. "You are Mister Darkoz, aren't you?"

It's a felony to lie to an FBI agent but this trooper wasn't FBI. Nonetheless, I wasn't certain about the law in this situation. No point in being charged with a felony simply for delivering a fateful nod of a head. Besides, he wasn't going to let me go and would demand identification anyway. So I nodded affirmative.

"Okay, Mister Darkoz, come with me. I will need to confirm some issues."

I noted that he didn't say I was being arrested and I was led to the back again very quietly. I didn't refuse to go like I normally would mainly because this was not an overzealous security guard but an actual officer of the law. Resisting arrest is a lot different than resisting backrooming. And you just never know how a police officer will react. This particular state trooper was very congenial, but I had no doubt he could get forceful if required.

This time I was taken not to the state troopers on site office but to a rather cozy executive suite with business desk and nice carpet and instructed to be seated on a sofa against the wall. Perhaps, Valley Forge didn't have a true holding cell for backrooming. It's such a small casino.

The state trooper began with, "I need to see your ID."

I was still in my mask. He had not yet asked me to remove it and I was following his commands so I pulled my New York (non-drivers, remember) state ID and handed it to him.

He scanned it confused and a bit annoyed. "No, this is your son's ID! I need your ID!"

I looked at him and realized he wasn't joking. He thought I was my dad. On the gaming floor he was going on intuition and calling me Mister Darkoz SENIOR! That mask was still working!!!

I then introduced myself and had, basically, a Mission Impossible moment (the classic theme music playing dramatically ONLY in my head) as I unbuttoned the top of my shirt and ripped off the mask, revealing myself to the occupants of the room.

(Okay, you never "rip off" the mask. They always do it wrong in Mission Impossible where they reach over with the right arm and pull it from the left side. That mask is snug like a bottleneck around your throat and flush and dry against your skin. Ripping off the mask wouldn't be comfortable, probably resulting in a skin burn or rash. Plus you would probably tear your expensive mask. Instead, you reach with BOTH hands under the neck and stretch the flesh so it pulls easily over your head. Nonetheless, I find it no less dramatic.)

There were cries of amazement by everyone. It was so unexpected that the mood was almost jovial, like screening a horror film in a theater and after a good scare everyone releases a laugh afterwards.

One executive requested I replace the mask while he summoned more executives into the room. And I hate to admit I obliged because now I got to relive my Mission Impossible moment a second time. (Okay, my ego was stroked. I'm only human!)

The officer informed me he thought I was my dad because he had watched the surveillance tapes and noted the old man had the same gait and mannerisms. Usually I act the full part, even using a cane, but after so many weeks of quiet I must have gone lax with the senior act. (On a side note if he had observed my real dad he never would have guessed we were related as I fully take after my mother. Especially in height. I stand five foot three and my dad is six foot two. Yes, I even got stiffed on height.)

The state trooper sat next to me on the sofa. He revealed they knew about additional cards I had been using and with low key surprise, noted I also was still using cards he had previously confiscated and pin locked.

I just shrugged and pointed out again these players clearly gave me permission as I had them come down to unlock the cards.

Right there, I phoned two different new people who spoke to the state trooper and confirmed I had permission to use their cards. We had a list of names to call but after two, the trooper just wrote down their numbers and said he would contact them later.

The trooper rose and went to leave the room, turning back to me, and saying, "You are free to go. But first wait for trespassing paperwork to be completed as you are being evicted from the property."

I nodded. "I expected no less,". He seemed to appreciate my candor. "Now does that include the hotel?". Remember the hotel at Valley Forge was actually a chain hotel connected by a hallway so I was genuinely asking.

An executive piped up. "Yes, the hotel too. I personally will escort you back to your room for your belongings."

"Oh, so you know I am checked in?"

The officer spoke up. "Surveillance and I have known you were here every day for the last four weeks. Everytime you checked in we were made aware."

That's when my madness of checking in under my own name came out as being somewhat genius. They hadn't flagged the cards because they were watching me like a hawk. As soon as I checked into the hotel, surveillance pulled my face up on their screen and waited for me to return using player's cards. Only they observed me doing nothing but going to the food court and gambling on my own card for small amounts of time. As I suspected, they didn't surveil the actual hotel hallways or front desk and didn't realize the old man walking through the halls was me in disguise. For weeks Valley Forge surveillance was confused why I checked in for such an extended stay and didn't do what they expected, to further take the offers!

So, just what caused them to finally catch on? For years I wasn't certain until the Golden Nugget supplied me with the documentation. I'm absolutely certain it was that damned jackpot.

Take a look for yourselves.



Notice the first two entries from November are for direct surveillance as the cards were flagged. They start with "on 11/06" and again "on 11/08" and detail the amount of freeplay and cash out. But the third entry is vague. It starts with "surveillance footage shows...) And covers three different days as opposed to the direct daily surveillance from the first two entries.

That third entry was them playing catch up. They were going back and trying to piece together what was happening. Now notice the dates. They observed me in a mask on 11/29, 12/05 and 12/07. That's a huge gap of a week between sightings. And naturally, the 11/29 date is when I won the jackpot.

My theory:. The slot attendant did note that a female whose name didn't match the card with freeplay claimed a jackpot. The note wasn't a high priority for a surveillance team dedicated to my case. They didn't attribute the young twenty something with me, the middle aged guy (yes she was twenty years younger).

They finally got around to review of the tape and discovered the young woman didn't even win the jackpot but switched seats with an elderly man. None of my cards would match that age and they followed the old man's steps as best they could several days out noting even some of my cards previously confiscated were being used

On hindsight, if I hadn't won the jackpot or perhaps if I even had switched to one of my other masks, I might have completed the entire operation. But hindsight is perfect vision and spilled milk was all I was left with.

After that revelation, I asked about the over one thousand dollars in vouchers still in my pocket. When they walked me to my hotel room to gather my belongings did they intend to honor those.

The executive looked upset but didn't address me. He turned to the state trooper and asked, "Do we have to cash that out? That's money won from freeplay from other players cards?"

Now this state trooper is assigned to the casino and is basically the Pennsylvania version of NJ gaming enforcement so he laid it out on the line, siding with me on the matter. "Yes, and I confirmed they gave their permission. So you have to honor those vouchers. It's now a civil matter if you wish to pursue it further."

The executive left the room shaking his head and the state trooper bid me goodbye but I stopped him for one last question. "What time do you think you will be calling my people? This way I can tell them to make themselves available for your call."

He looked at me for a moment in thought and then replied, "I won't be calling them. You have convinced me. I'm closing the case!"

Now I patiently waited for the rigmarole of taking my photo and wrapping up the trespassing documents which they would request I sign.

After about fifteen minutes, that executive who had left the room returned somewhat triumphant. He sat at a chair in front of the desk in the room and addressed another executive seated behind it. This was apparently that executives office and said to him, "I spoke to the attorneys and we have a meeting for tomorrow at 2pm."

The executive behind the desk queries, "what did the attorney say?"

"He thinks we might have a case for unjust enrichment."

"Excellent. We will make him pay back everything that was taken."

This was just one of those surreal moments an Advantage Player experiences. I'm literally seated in front of them and they are having this conversation as if I wasn't five feet from them listening in. Or perhaps they wanted me to hear, attempting to strike fear in me. But they appeared to be ambivalent.

I finally spoke up. "You won't prevail for unjust enrichment. You have no case!"

I then went into the three matters of law required to prevail in unjust enrichment. I will let you read them for
Yourselves.



Okay, now you guys are probably looking at what you just read and making the same error those executives did. Unjust enrichment sure looks like it applies to my situation.

After all, the Valley Forge supplied a benefit (check off first requirement) and I accepted the benefit (check off second requirement) and I retained the value of the benefits (check off the third requirement) HOWEVER the third requirement is where the argument falls apart for unjust enrichment. I have to retain the value of the benefits as to be inequitable under the law because I didn't pay for those benefits.

INEQUITABLE BECAUSE I DIDN'T PAY FOR THEM!

In short, suing for unjust enrichment meant the Valley Forge was now going to claim I had to PAY for free gifts!

No one has to pay for free gifts!

Free gifts have no expectation of remuneration nor do free items have any expectations of obligation. (If they do it has to be spelled out for example the free sandwich WITH the purchase of fries and soda. The obligation is listed up front and tied to the offer.)

It's called the gifting principle! See below!



I said I schooled these executives in matters of unjust enrichment law but that's NOT how the conversation actually went. In a perfect world one should be allowed to help educate someone who has a misunderstanding. But in an imperfect world filled with casino executives who believe they have all the answers the conversation actually went thus:

I finally spoke up. "You won't prevail for unjust enrichment. You have no case!"

The executive behind the desk replied, "Are you an attorney!"

"No, and neither are you," I replied.

"Right, so your opinion on this doesn't matter."

Oh well, one can try.

(I won't leave you on a cliffhanger here. It's now six years later and they never filed an unjust enrichment suit against me. I imagine their attorneys schooled them the next day at the meeting.)

After I signed the paperwork that I understood I was evicted for the rest of my life by the owners of the Valley Forge casino I was accompanied by the executive who had spoken with the attorneys to retrieve my belongings. He then took me to the cashier Cage and I stuck it to them one last time by collecting a thousand plus more dollars. What did he care? At this point he thought he had a chance to sue for unjust enrichment.

As he walked me to the exit, this time a side door for employees (don't want regular customers seeing an eviction) I was going over the particulars of an unjust enrichment suit. Even if I was certain to win, I might have to shell out for an attorney. And they would make other claims, such as the free gifts weren't intended for me. But I had an idea of what evidence I needed to collect to counter any argument that might sway a judge who was overzealous.

So my mind wasn't paying full attention when we got to the exit and the executive once again started talking, telling me if I returned to the Valley Forge I would be arrested for trespassing. I had just signed a document admitting that I understood that. I wasn't a child and didn't need it repeated.

So his speech about it just went to the back of my thought process.

But then he kept talking!

And he said something so utterly ridiculous that I filed that away as something to laugh about later.

And then he kept talking!!!

I've said it before. Casino employees talk too much!

The third thing he said perked up my advantage player's ears. The Valley Forge was about to make a critical error and they were now alerting me to it. Like I said, they talk too much.

And so instead of a four hour bus trip home lamenting how the Valley Forge operation had unceremoniously ended I was preparing how it was going to enter stage three.

And with unjust enrichment claims making me a bit defensive and upset, I was going to do a move that in my ten years of advantage play, I have only down twice. Once at Resorts World in 2014, and once again now to the Valley Forge in 2016.

It was a vicious, vindictive move that would strike real fear into them.

I was going to teach them the true meaning of unjust enrichment!

It was time to release... The KRAKEN!

To be continued.

Quote: darkoz

No, sending out W2-G for aggregate wins is simply illegal on the part of the casino and wrong in so many ways.

The casinos can aggregate your jackpots of $1200 or more and just issue a single W2G.