SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 8094
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 27th, 2021 at 3:28:40 AM permalink
There is no doubt there is a large contingent of gamblers (me included!) that would gamble much more if smoking were banned from my local casino.

Before the pandemic (border with Canada now closed) I would sometimes, at a reasonable inconvenience, drive an extra 10 minutes each way, pay a toll, and possibly get stuck at the border crossing for 30-60 minutes, get fewer comps, no free alcohol, to go to the Canadian non-smoking casino.
That would (virtually) never happen if smoking were banned at my local casino.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 132
  • Posts: 14605
May 27th, 2021 at 9:06:05 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Great article, only need to read a few pages to realize smoking needs to cease ASAP, because there will be neglible monetary effects for casinos.



Only need a few pages to realize something that you already felt a certain way about strongly? I'd have thought you could do that in zero pages.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 132
  • Posts: 14605
May 27th, 2021 at 9:15:11 AM permalink
It's kind of political, but directly related to a gambling question. I don't think we are going to find any real agreement on this one because there are different camps at play:

Non-Smokers Who Hate Second-Hand Smoke: Obviously, most people who fall into this camp are going to be very much in favor of smoking being banned in casinos by any means possible. With all due respect to some of the posters in this thread, and truly no offense meant, we have seen factually inaccurate categorical statements of purported fact presented in defense of this position.

Hardcore Smokers: Hardcore smokers are going to defend smoking (I don't even know if there are any in this thread) and use the same reasons Gandler and I do.

Libertarian-Minded Position: This is basically me (and Gandler, to an extent) for which this is really more of a fundamentally political thing than it is a matter of preference. Simply put, we don't want the Government(s) capriciously deciding what casinos should or should not be doing and present the different venues in which smoking is permitted (such as bars) and some common threads (that they are adults-only, as with casinos).

The higher the level of Government, the more likely we are to reject the notion of them imposing broad policy on this issue.

In my case, I'd prefer it to be left up to the individual casinos, but am not opposed to a public vote (either statewide or local) on the matter. If the voting public says, "No Smoking," then I don't have anything negative to say about the applicable Executive level enforcing the will of the public. This would almost always be city/county, except perhaps in those states (Pennsylvania is one example) in which state police happen to already be stationed at casinos.

In my opinion, the vote should be at whatever level the enforcement is most likely to take place.

I say this because I recently quit smoking and do not expect that I will ever smoke (other than occasional cigars) again. Point being, I should be opposed to smoking in casinos were I basing my opinions on my personal preference.

And, as ever, nobody is forced to go to casinos if the smoking really bothers them THAT much.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 2768
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 27th, 2021 at 9:28:25 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Only need a few pages to realize something that you already felt a certain way about strongly? I'd have thought you could do that in zero pages.


Nope, there was an outside possibility that you were right. Possibility evaporated quickly.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 683
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146DeMango
May 27th, 2021 at 9:50:36 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I do not think that anyone is disagreeing that people will still not go to casinos if smoking was banned. . . . I stand by my claim that the 75/25 split is very reasonable.



A few years ago, I inquired at a Biloxi casino hotel -- over 30 stories tall -- and learned that only 4 floors allowed smokers. Nowhere near 25 percent of the rooms were reserved for smokers. Vegas might be different.

Ummm... most current CDC data on tobacco smokers is that 14 percent of adults currently smoke regularly. And, the percentage of tobacco smokers has been falling for years. Would 85 percent smoke-free and 15 percent for smokers be more appropriate for casinos? Based on the data, that sounds reasonable also, right?
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 132
  • Posts: 14605
May 27th, 2021 at 9:58:19 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Nope, there was an outside possibility that you were right. Possibility evaporated quickly.



I'm not saying that business would go down long-term and never did say that. I speculated that the casinos might think that.

This is more an issue of I don't want the Government doing it arbitrarily, for me. I don't personally care if smoking is allowed or not. It smells a little, now that I don't smoke, but not enough to really bother me.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
TDVegas
TDVegas
Joined: Oct 30, 2018
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 841
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 27th, 2021 at 12:09:21 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I'm not saying that business would go down long-term and never did say that. I speculated that the casinos might think that.


I think most of those arguments as it related to bars, nightclubs and restaurants...the doom and gloom didnít pan out. Specifically, NYC bar owners were up in arms initially about the smoking ban. In the ensuing years, business was booming. The think the casinos are in the same boat. MGMís National Harbor is booming with a no smoking ban.

I also think this would have to be applied across the board in Vegas. Ultimately, smokers are addicts. Addicts who smoke and gamble will give up neither. My guess is the report of smokers who left convenience stores and grocery stores merely migrated to Dottyís or other places where they could smoke. It wasnít an indication that smokers quit gambling or even curtailed their gambling.

They will migrate from venue to venue as more places ban it until they are ultimately forced to accept reality...they arenít stopping their gambling or smoking. They will walk outside, get the fix, and get back playing.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 2356
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 27th, 2021 at 12:43:16 PM permalink
If the building has the air filtering necessary for COVID, do they have the air filtering necessary for smoky rooms? I've seen complaints about certain casinos that reek of the stench of smoke after 5-10 years, and frankly makes the laundry chores more necessary. I'm a non-smoker, but if you're gonna light up a joint at the craps table in front of a no smoking sign, maybe you should be on a TV series about gambling.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 2773
Thanks for this post from:
Mission146
May 27th, 2021 at 12:59:44 PM permalink
Harrahs Council Bluffs has a low ceiling, and with the ceiling color being slightly lighter color grey, at least when I last visited several years ago, you can see spots where there is literally visibly accumulating chunks of ash on the ceiling along borders of the ceiling pattern where itís not completely flat.. Probably one of the more disturbing things Iíve ever seen in a business open to the public.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
  • Threads: 132
  • Posts: 14605
Thanks for this post from:
TDVegas
May 27th, 2021 at 1:49:13 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

I think most of those arguments as it related to bars, nightclubs and restaurants...the doom and gloom didnít pan out. Specifically, NYC bar owners were up in arms initially about the smoking ban. In the ensuing years, business was booming. The think the casinos are in the same boat. MGMís National Harbor is booming with a no smoking ban.

I also think this would have to be applied across the board in Vegas. Ultimately, smokers are addicts. Addicts who smoke and gamble will give up neither. My guess is the report of smokers who left convenience stores and grocery stores merely migrated to Dottyís or other places where they could smoke. It wasnít an indication that smokers quit gambling or even curtailed their gambling.

They will migrate from venue to venue as more places ban it until they are ultimately forced to accept reality...they arenít stopping their gambling or smoking. They will walk outside, get the fix, and get back playing.



Yeah, but that's where it can sometimes depend on the market. Go to Hancock County, WV, if you want to see a bunch of closed buildings that used to be VLT parlors all on the same drag...that county decided you can't smoke in those.

In Ohio County, WV, it was the same thing with bars. Another problem bars had, in that county, is that you could smoke in the parlors. You could also smoke in the parlor areas of bars, but some did not really have room for those, in others they were small, some bars did not want to have those areas, etc. If you go down to Main Street and Market Street in Wheeling, I'll give you no fewer than six locations that were formerly bars and went out of business within two years of that smoking ban. The only thing that the bars really could have that the parlors can't is liquor (Actually, the parlors simply choose not to). I'll also find you some other former bars elsewhere in the city that shuttered, some bars that just became parlors instead AND some brand new parlors in buildings that weren't there before!

If we jump to the State of Ohio, the bar business was similarly torched by no smoking, at least, as far as non-restaurants (or restaurants not being a major part of the business model) were concerned. This also somewhat depends on where in the state. I could give you a list of some towns within an area of only several square miles and say, "Pick a town," then I'll show you closed bars in whatever town you pick...nothing ever went into those buildings.

I know of one small town, in fact, that has gone from five bars to one and once had zero.

Another thing that you have to understand is that it gets pretty cold in the Winter around here, so that's also going to be a factor.

Anyway, I'll prove my anecdotal case all over the map, or send pictures and dates as I can find them. Obviously, some others have closed permanently because they couldn't weather the Covid-19 shutdowns.

Another problem you get with the smoking bans is uneven enforcement, though that wouldn't apply to casinos. In other words, some places the police or health department practically pops in twice a week, other places, there's a cop that hangs out in that bar who happens to be a smoker. When you have that, people quickly figure out which bar is, de facto, still a smoking bar. Needless to say, that one generally survives. Plastic cups with water in them, or empty cans...one place I knew of was brazen enough to go with ashtrays, but they wouldn't break one out unless you asked.

In any event, casinos are obviously totally different compared to bars. I was just addressing bars. Again, I'm also discussing areas with a MUCH higher percentage of smoking denizens than you are probably discussing.
Last edited by: Mission146 on May 27, 2021
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

  • Jump to: