RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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August 1st, 2014 at 2:30:20 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

In the end, it's up to the judge. It is his job to approve the things that will get the most money for the creditors.

The judge, who has all the facts, has decided that this is the best course of action for the creditors. The people reading this article, who don't have the facts, have decided that they are in a better position than the judge to determine the best course of action.

Gee, I wonder who I will trust on this one? I think I'll go with the judge over the peanut gallery here...



I agree that the effort should be spent to get the most money from the sale, so the creditors receive as much as possible. Where we differ is I don't believe the execs should profit one more nickel from this deal.

Now, should the execs somehow come up with a deal that is way over what the expected sale amount was, THEN, perhaps I could see a bonus being paid. But it would have to be WAY, WAY over what the expected sale amount was, AND, the execs would need to explain exactly what it was that they personally did that made the sale go higher than expected.

But that is pretty unlikely.

I guess it is all in one's perspective. I spent 33 years in a blue chip company, and watched as the execs have run it almost into the ground over the last 14 years, bleeding the employees dry with no raises, loss of pensions, loss of benefits, etc., while the total exec compensation has risen over 200% during the same time frame. So perhaps I am hyper-sensitive about bonus payouts to execs who have not done a very good job.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
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August 1st, 2014 at 2:34:22 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Well, certainly more likely to be right than the decision made by people who don't know any of the facts and appear not to even understand the purpose of the court.

I never got an answer to my question -- theft from whom, exactly? Theft generally requires that someone is stolen from. Who is being stolen from?



The theft is from the creditors. Where is the bonus money going to come from?
Someone buys Revel for $30M. $5M gets paid out to the execs. $25M goes to the creditors who probably are due much more, so they only get pennies on their dollars. In the end, the creditors are the ones paying the bonus to the execs who screwed up the business that cost them money.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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August 1st, 2014 at 4:08:52 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

I agree that the effort should be spent to get the most money from the sale, so the creditors receive as much as possible. Where we differ is I don't believe the execs should profit one more nickel from this deal.



That's not a logical statement. You don't allow for the possibility that the way to maximize the amount of the sale is to pay the execs a bonus for selling it at a high price.

Let's turn the question around. Suppose that the maximum sale price would come from paying the execs that bonus. Anything else would result in a lower price. Why should the creditors have to accept a lower price?

You keep bringing up the employees. They have nothing to do with this. The company is in bankruptcy; the only thing that matters at this point is liquidating the assets at the highest possible price so that the creditors can be made as whole as possible. No one else has a stake in this.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012
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August 1st, 2014 at 4:10:45 PM permalink
Quote: RaleighCraps

The theft is from the creditors. Where is the bonus money going to come from?
Someone buys Revel for $30M. $5M gets paid out to the execs. $25M goes to the creditors who probably are due much more, so they only get pennies on their dollars. In the end, the creditors are the ones paying the bonus to the execs who screwed up the business that cost them money.



You are assuming that the bonuses don't result in a higher sale price. The whole point of this is that the amount of the higher sale price exceeds the amount of the bonuses. In other words, the creditors end up with more money, not less.

That's a funny kind of theft, where the people being stolen from end up with more money.
aceofspades
aceofspades
Joined: Apr 4, 2012
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August 1st, 2014 at 4:20:31 PM permalink
Giving out bonuses while they just fired certain hosts last night!
NokTang
NokTang
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
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August 1st, 2014 at 7:34:52 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

You are assuming that the bonuses don't result in a higher sale price. The whole point of this is that the amount of the higher sale price exceeds the amount of the bonuses. In other words, the creditors end up with more money, not less.

That's a funny kind of theft, where the people being stolen from end up with more money.



And you, throughout this "discussion", are assuming that there are people with this kind of money unaware of such an "opportunity" as a failing Atlantic City Casino Hotel. The buyers aren't the fools you seem to think who are going to fall victim to some sales pitch by an existing "executive" trying to earn a bonus. It's not a striptease club where emotion comes in to play. Another aspect you left out is the tax incentives given to build and open said property. These IMHO amount to theft of the taxpayers.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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August 1st, 2014 at 10:01:17 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Giving out bonuses while they just fired certain hosts last night!

Oh boy.
I am a robot.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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August 2nd, 2014 at 12:15:52 AM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Giving out bonuses while they just fired certain hosts last night!



In the archives I predicted the fall of
Revel even before they opened, because
they were non smoking. I was mocked
and ridiculed, as usual. Who's laughing
now. You don't open a huge resort hotel
in a dying AC and exclude half the players
right off the bat. Unless you're clueless.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
sodawater
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
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August 2nd, 2014 at 4:44:35 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

In the archives I predicted the fall of
Revel even before they opened, because
they were non smoking. I was mocked
and ridiculed, as usual. Who's laughing
now. You don't open a huge resort hotel
in a dying AC and exclude half the players
right off the bat. Unless you're clueless.



Yes, Bob, it's got everything to do with being non-smoking, and nothing to do with:

-- ridiculous mismanagement

-- No buses

-- Terrible loyalty program

-- Stingy room/comp offers at opening

-- OH AND DOZENS OF CASINOS OPENING IN EVERY STATE SURROUNDING NJ

Revel was only non-smoking for a little while. They didn't do any better once they allowed smoking. And not even close to "half" of AC casino patrons smoke.
NokTang
NokTang
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
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August 2nd, 2014 at 7:52:47 PM permalink
I would assume most AC casinos are playing with "scared money". A good time to take advantage and win some money there.

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