dlevinelaw
dlevinelaw
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March 18th, 2010 at 12:48:16 PM permalink
This has been mentioned in a few previous threads, and touched upon by the Wiz in his flamingo review, but by my understanding, O'Sheas is for all intents and purposes a part of the Flamingo. Same license, though I guess it isn't technically attached.

How does this work? Are there any other dual-casinos that operate under one license (Palazzo and Encore I'm assuming)? What governance is there over this, could Harrah's buy Casino Royale and collapse the license into Harrah's?

Just curious, as in my mind, I always considered them distinct.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 18th, 2010 at 1:38:09 PM permalink
Quote: dlevinelaw

This has been mentioned in a few previous threads, and touched upon by the Wiz in his flamingo review, but by my understanding, O'Sheas is for all intents and purposes a part of the Flamingo. Same license, though I guess it isn't technically attached.

How does this work? Are there any other dual-casinos that operate under one license (Palazzo and Encore I'm assuming)? What governance is there over this, could Harrah's buy Casino Royale and collapse the license into Harrah's?

Just curious, as in my mind, I always considered them distinct.



No idea though my understanding is you would not want to collapse a license as they have some value on their own.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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March 18th, 2010 at 2:33:02 PM permalink
Here are the dual licenses I'm aware of:

Wynn-Encore
Venetian-Palazzo
Flaimingo-O'Shae's

I think from a business and Gaming standpoint, they are the same casino.

The case of Paris-Ballys I'm not sure how to define. I think they use the same chips, and the slot tickets say "Bally's Paris," but Gaming lists them separately.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Croupier
Croupier
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March 18th, 2010 at 2:37:13 PM permalink
That might be due to the fact Bally's has been around longer and Paris was a new build. This wouldnt apply to the Wynn/Venetian scenarios as they were both new builds and so would have new licences when they were built, where as Bally's would have already had its license.
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kenspaulding
kenspaulding
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March 18th, 2010 at 6:30:23 PM permalink
when I hit a $3,200 progressive slot jackpot at Bally's a few years back, the W2G was shown as being issued by "Parball Corporation" which is the wholly-owned subsidiary of Harrahs that owns/operates Paris/Bally's.

I can confirm that chips at Bally's are usable at Paris and vice versa. Is there a rule about interchangability of chips from one casino to another?

ken
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Croupier
Croupier
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March 18th, 2010 at 6:37:03 PM permalink
I dont know if you can use chips for other casinos, even within the same group at other casinos, but you can give casino chips as tips to servers/cocktail waitresses from other properties (in Las Vegas). Probably wouldnt for anything less than 25 bucks, otherwise you would look really cheap and it wouldnt be worth the trip for the server.
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 18th, 2010 at 6:45:37 PM permalink
Quote: kenspaulding

Is there a rule about interchangability of chips from one casino to another?

There IS such a rule, but I'm not sure how far-reaching it is. I.E. I don't know if it's just casinos in the same company, if there's a dollar limit or what. But I've questioned getting Harrah's chips from a Flamingo dealer. He said it happens all the time and it's not a problem.

That sort of thing wouldn't fly in A.C. In fact, there's a LOT of stuff that happens in Vegas casinos that would never happen in A.C.

For example, it's standard practice to get chips from the cage before sitting down to poker. So I was at Binion's and asked about seating. She said there was an open seat, so I asked where the cage was. She simply took a key from her pocket and opened a desk drawer full of cash and chips and asked, "How much?" No security, supervisor or co-worker nearby. Heck, not even a wall or counter to keep me from reaching into the drawer! I'm still shocked at that.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 18th, 2010 at 6:46:36 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

There IS such a rule, but I'm not sure how far-reaching it is. I.E. I don't know if it's just casinos in the same company, if there's a dollar limit or what. But I've questioned getting Harrah's chips from a Flamingo dealer. He said it happens all the time and it's not a problem.

That sort of thing wouldn't fly in A.C. In fact, there's a LOT of stuff that happens in Vegas casinos that would never happen in A.C.

For example, it's standard practice to get chips from the cage before sitting down to poker. So I was at Binion's and asked the poker manager about seating. She said there was an open seat, so I asked where the cage was. She simply took a key from her pocket and opened a desk drawer full of cash and chips and asked, "How much?" No security, supervisor or co-worker nearby. Heck, not even a wall or counter to keep me from reaching into the drawer! I'm still shocked at that.

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
wildqat
wildqat
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March 18th, 2010 at 9:36:13 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

There IS such a rule, but I'm not sure how far-reaching it is. I.E. I don't know if it's just casinos in the same company, if there's a dollar limit or what. But I've questioned getting Harrah's chips from a Flamingo dealer. He said it happens all the time and it's not a problem.


Funny, that. Once at Harrah's, some guy sits down with a stack of reds and starts playing Let It Ride. About halfway through his stack he puts out a Flamingo $5. The dealer notices and says, "You can't use those here," and starts going through the guy's stack, weeding out the Flamingo chips. The guy said, "Well, you're both Harrah's properties, what's the big deal?" The dealer's response basically revolved around "Doesn't matter, that's the rules," but he pulled about four or five Flamingo chips out, replaced them with Harrah's chips, and dropped the Flamingo chips.

I think these are the relevant gaming regs:

12.060 Use of chips and tokens.
2. A licensee that uses chips or tokens at its gaming establishment shall:
(e) Take reasonable steps, including examining chips and tokens and segregating those issued by other licensees to prevent the issuance to its patrons of chips and tokens issued by another licensee.
5. A licensee shall not knowingly issue, use, permit the use of, or redeem chips or tokens issued by another licensee, except as follows:
(a) A licensee may redeem tokens issued by another licensee if:
(1) The tokens are presented by a patron for redemption to a cashier of the licensee痴 gaming establishment or, in the case of a location having slot machines operated by a licensed operator of a slot machine route, if a patron presents them to the operator痴 employee at the location; or
(2) The tokens are presented by a patron at a table game; and
(3) The licensee redeems the tokens with tokens of its own, separates and properly accounts for the redeemed tokens during the count performed pursuant to the licensee痴 system of internal control required by Regulation 6, and places the redeemed tokens in the table痴 drop box, if redeemed at a table game; and
(b) A licensee may redeem chips issued by another licensee if:
(1) The chips are presented by a patron for redemption at the cashier痴 cage of the licensee痴 gaming establishment; or
(2) The chips are presented by a patron at a table game, and the licensee redeems the chips with chips of its own, places the redeemed chips in the table痴 drop box, and separates and properly accounts for the redeemed chips during the count performed pursuant to the licensee痴 system of internal control submitted pursuant to Regulation 6.050 or 6.060; and
(c) An operator of a slot machine route or its employee may redeem tokens that are issued by the operator for use at another location.

IANAL, but it seems pretty cut and dried. The guy at Flamingo shouldn't have been giving out Harrah's chips, because they're different licenses, even though they're the same owner. I think it has to do with accounting and cash-on-hand requirements as put forth elsewhere in the gaming regs.
jpprovance
jpprovance
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March 20th, 2010 at 12:09:51 AM permalink
i accidently kept a few hooters chips in a pocket... i cashed thm out at PH the other day.

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