Coronavirus math
Quote: kewlj
Now back to the numbers: Today is Pearl Harbor Day. We lost 2403 military personnel at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941. We lose that many almost everyday currently from covid. (more than 2403, 3 times last week).
I argree, we make too much of a big deal out of the deaths at Pearl Harbor. It was a significant day for the country, but the lives lost were insignificant.
Quote: DRichI argree, we make too much of a big deal out of the deaths at Pearl Harbor. It was a significant day for the country, but the lives lost were insignificant.
What is interesting to me is the total American lives lost in WW2 is less than the population of the small city of Henderson Nevada where I live. We blow everything out of proportion.
Your post surprised me enough that I tried to verify the numbers. I learned (from Wikipedia) that your "small city of Henderson" is, in fact, the second largest city in the state, with a 2019 estimated population of 320,189.Quote: DRichWhat is interesting to me is the total American lives lost in WW2 is less than the population of the small city of Henderson Nevada where I live. We blow everything out of proportion.
That figure is, indeed, slightly more than the 300,000 members of the U.S. Army that a Washington Post article from 2017 indicates were killed in World War II. However, that article further reports that, "In total, over 405,000 Americans gave their lives in the conflict." The article goes on to say that there are more that 70,000 additional Americans still listed as "missing in action" from that war.
Do you have conflicting figures on which you based your post? Just curious.
Quote: DocYour post surprised me enough that I tried to verify the numbers. I learned (from Wikipedia) that your "small city of Henderson" is, in fact, the second largest city in the state, with a 2019 estimated population of 320,189.
That figure is, indeed, slightly more than the 300,000 members of the U.S. Army that a Washington Post article from 2017 indicates were killed in World War II. However, that article further reports that, "In total, over 405,000 Americans gave their lives in the conflict." The article goes on to say that there are more that 70,000 additional Americans still listed as "missing in action" from that war.
Do you have conflicting figures on which you based your post? Just curious.
No, I was using the same numbers that you initially stated. Yes, I believe Henderson Nevada is a small city. i understand that term is subjective.
One dummy went into the hotel hallway for 8 seconds
Busted
3500.00 fine
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/asia/taiwan-quarantine-fine-scli-intl/index.html
Quote: ChumpChange33 Million in California are on lockdown, maybe until Christmas. Google says 67.3 million are infected worldwide and 43.2 million have recovered and 1.54 million have died. So that's 24 million who haven't recovered, or near 35%, and a near 2.3% death rate. We've recalled lettuce for less.
So what are you asking to happen? Should there be a worldwide recall on the virus?
Quote: ChumpChangeWe've got a "K" recovery, which is not a recovery, but a crash & burn.
When we lock things down what else do you expect to happen?
Quote: ChumpChangeIf 20% of those infected have hospital bills over $40,000, it would have been cheaper to pay them to stay home.
But if they stay home they are creating no wealth to pay anything.
Do you see the reality?
Quote: AZDuffmanBut if they stay home they are creating no wealth to pay anything.
Do you see the reality?
What you are saying is debt to the point of bankruptcy is better in your opinion than just no income?
Quote: AZDuffmanBut if they stay home they are creating no wealth to pay anything.
Do you see the reality?
I don't believe that is how wealth is created
Quote: billryanI don't believe that is how wealth is created
You do not believe going out and working creates wealth?
Quote: darkozWhat you are saying is debt to the point of bankruptcy is better in your opinion than just no income?
What I am saying is what I have been saying all along. We cannot just hide at home, life has to go on. If we all just stay at home as you suggest we will be starving and freezing in the dark. I'll take my chances with the virus instead thank you very much.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf 20% of those infected have hospital bills over $40,000, it would have been cheaper to pay them to stay home.
The hospilization rate is under 5% now.
Quote: mcallister3200The hospilization rate is under 5% now.
Don't confuse The Chump with the facts. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou do not believe going out and working creates wealth?
I don't think it does. I think it re-distributes wealth for most people..
Quote: DRichI don't think it does. I think it re-distributes wealth for most people..
So if you go out and do productive wealth and get paid you do not create wealth for you and your boss? What exactly do you do?
Quote: AZDuffmanSo if you go out and do productive wealth and get paid you do not create wealth for you and your boss? What exactly do you do?
No, it is not creating wealth. It is just moving money from one person or company to another. Yes, my family now has more money but some other family now has less. Nothing was created.
Quote: DRichNo, it is not creating wealth. It is just moving money from one person or company to another. Yes, my family now has more money but some other family now has less. Nothing was created.
So you are saying the USA has the exact same wealth as it did in 1776?
Quote: AZDuffmanSo you are saying the USA has the exact same wealth as it did in 1776?
Governments create money not wealth.
Does going out working redistribute wealth mostly equally or mostly unequally?Quote: DRichI don't think it does. I think it re-distributes wealth for most people..
Quote: DRichGovernments create money not wealth.
But you said working does not create it just redistributes it.
Quote: AZDuffmanBut you said working does not create it just redistributes it.
Yes I did.
Quote: billryanIf 90% of adults work their entire lives and less than one percent of them are wealthy, I feel quite confident that most jobs don't create wealth.
I believe what AZ means is a person who works during this pandemic has a wealth of covid symptoms and a wealth of Antibodies
For who?Quote: AZDuffmanYou do not believe going out and working creates wealth?
Quote: AxelWolfFor who?
Quote: billryanIf 90% of adults work their entire lives and less than one percent of them are wealthy, I feel quite confident that most jobs don't create wealth.
If you have a real job in the private sector you create wealth when you work. Lets say you deliver pizza.
1. You create wealth for yourself in the wage and tip you made.
2. You create wealth for the owner in his profit on the pie.
As to the 90% profit well that is because most people do not use their money to create more wealth. Some of us do.
But if you demand we lock down because you are afraid of the bug then no wealth can be created.
There are stories of people who made it big from nothing.
Two kids create YouTube in a garage.
eBay starts from an attempt to help sell some Pez dispensers
Sylvester Stallone gets his first script sold and insists on playing the main character
(BTW - everyone of those success stories above has been proven a bunch of bunk or lies mixed with a grain of truth. In reality, the guy making pizza wages simply hands his whole paycheck to his landlord)
Quote: AZDuffmanIf you have a real job in the private sector you create wealth when you work. Lets say you deliver pizza.
1. You create wealth for yourself in the wage and tip you made.
2. You create wealth for the owner in his profit on the pie.
As to the 90% profit well that is because most people do not use their money to create more wealth. Some of us do.
But if you demand we lock down because you are afraid of the bug then no wealth can be created.
As I said before, that is not how wealth is created. Lets say you deliver pizza.. Your wages come out of your employers pocket, and your tips came out of your customer's pocket. Money has moved from one persons pocket to another. Every dime of profit your boss makes comes out of someone else's pocket. If your boss does not take enough money from other people, he can't pay you. If his customers don't take enough from somewhere, they can't pay your boss who then cant pay you.
Quote: billryanAs I said before, that is not how wealth is created. Your wages come out of your employers pocket, and your tips came out of your customer's pocket. Money has moved from one persons pocket to another. Every dime of profit your boss makes comes out of someone else's pocket. If your boss does not take enough money from other people, he can't pay you. If his customers don't take enough from somewhere, they can't pay your boss who then cant pay you.
I don’t know how you all are thinking of “wealth.” In my mind, as a general rule, transactions of all sorts between willing participants create wealth because they transfer stuff to the people that value it more. The worker values the wage more than his labor and the business owner values the labor more than the wage.
Your typical American has a job but isn't wealthy. Maybe five percent of Americans are rich, but they aren't wealthy.
Rich people count their money. Wealthy people count their time.
Quote: billryanAs I said before, that is not how wealth is created. Lets say you deliver pizza.. Your wages come out of your employers pocket, and your tips came out of your customer's pocket. Money has moved from one persons pocket to another. Every dime of profit your boss makes comes out of someone else's pocket. If your boss does not take enough money from other people, he can't pay you. If his customers don't take enough from somewhere, they can't pay your boss who then cant pay you.
And that is why we simply cannot just lock down and hide.
Quote: darkozAZ believes the Pizza delivery guy probably makes enough on his $8 wage to invest in a business of his own (meanwhile he doesn't even make enough to pay his rent and is on section eight probably)
Any driver making $8 an hour is an idiot. Who would use their own car to make less than WMT pays? When I did some driving between landman gigs I made $15 or so per hour.
That is $15 of wealth I created for myself by working not sitting at home.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: billryanAs I said before, that is not how wealth is created. Lets say you deliver pizza.. Your wages come out of your employers pocket, and your tips came out of your customer's pocket. Money has moved from one persons pocket to another. Every dime of profit your boss makes comes out of someone else's pocket. If your boss does not take enough money from other people, he can't pay you. If his customers don't take enough from somewhere, they can't pay your boss who then cant pay you.
And that is why we simply cannot just lock down and hide.
And this is why I choose not to argue with the walls.
Quote: unJonI don’t know how you all are thinking of “wealth.” In my mind, as a general rule, transactions of all sorts between willing participants create wealth because they transfer stuff to the people that value it more. The worker values the wage more than his labor and the business owner values the labor more than the wage.
This is one of my favorite posts!!!!
By the way, was watching the news and they were interviewing a restaurant owner, now with his restaurant closed due to an executive order.... He said there has not been a single closure or limitation that has been ordered by a single person that wasn’t getting their own paycheck in full.
Quote: SOOPOOHe said there has not been a single closure or limitation that has been ordered by a single person that wasn’t getting their own paycheck in full.
I assume you were elected to office? Or are you judging someone without being in the same situation? : 0
Quote: rxwineI assume you were elected to office? Or are you judging someone without being in the same situation? : 0
Well..... I was quoting someone else. And specifically mentioned that.
I have been elected to office, but only in volunteer organizations.
The guy’s point is clear. If someone decided that his own job was not ‘essential’ and cancelled it I’d like to hear that story. I won’t hold my breath.
I’m just saying it’s easy to shut off someone else’s livelihood while yours is not at risk.
Quote: SOOPOO
The guy’s point is clear. If someone decided that his own job was not ‘essential’ and cancelled it I’d like to hear that story. I won’t hold my breath.
I’m just saying it’s easy to shut off someone else’s livelihood while yours is not at risk.
The economy and the marketplace determined my job was not essential and canceled it due to the virus.
I have a ton of friends in that situation.
No job after decades in an industry
It sucks
You suck it up and move on
Quote: DRichWhat is interesting to me is the total American lives lost in WW2 is less than the population of the small city of Henderson Nevada where I live. We blow everything out of proportion.
Here is an interesting stat
Deadliest days in American history
Galveston Hurricane 8k dead
Antietam 3600 dead
9/11 2977 dead
Last Thursday 2861 dead
Last Wed 2762 dead
Last Friday 2439 dead
Pearl Harbor 2403 dead
Quote: terapinedHere is an interesting stat
Deadliest days in American history
Galveston Hurricane 8k dead
Antietam 3600 dead
9/11 2977 dead
Last Thursday 2861 dead
Last Wed 2762 dead
Last Friday 2439 dead
Pearl Harbor 2403 dead
Spent a little time looking at this. This source does a good fact check. While the core claim isn’t wrong, there are some events not captured, notably the 1918 flu where an average of more than 6,000 died a day for the month of October.
https://www.king5.com/mobile/article/news/verify/coronavirus-december-seen-some-deadliest-days-in-us-history/507-b6a61e57-aa78-4911-b19c-c4a2576f301f
In my neck of the woods this second wave is far worse than the first wave. WAY more hospitalizations.
Quote: SOOPOOAbout 8k Americans die every day from all causes. I am interested in TOTAL death rates now during pandemic. When listed as 2500 daily COVID -19 deaths now, are total deaths up to 10,500?
In my neck of the woods this second wave is far worse than the first wave. WAY more hospitalizations.
That's true.
I find it disconcerting that people are surprised at that as if it's unexpected.
The Spanish Flu which is mirroring this pandemic struck moderate in the Spring first wave and then came in crushing during the Fall second wave.
There were also anti-mask campaigns and resistance during the Spanish Flu. The anti-mask locations bragged about the Spanish Flu numbers going down in Summer, then got hit much harder in the Fall than the mask ordinance states
Everything occuring now was easily predictable precisely because it's literally happened before
Quote: SOOPOOAbout 8k Americans die every day from all causes. I am interested in TOTAL death rates now during pandemic. When listed as 2500 daily COVID -19 deaths now, are total deaths up to 10,500?
In my neck of the woods this second wave is far worse than the first wave. WAY more hospitalizations.
The numbers are very scary concerning excess deaths.
This year it is very high meaning Covid deaths are probably under reported
Jan to Oct 2020
USA excess deaths almost 300k but only 2/3 of that number has been attributed to covid
2020 has been a terrible year death wise in the USA
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm
Quote: billryanI heard that there are over 30,000 extra deaths in Florida over expectations, but the Florida government is still claiming Covid deaths are under 20,000.
Florida was called out very early in the pandemic for efforts to monkey with the data. Health Department staff were directed to "adjust" data on the public Internet display to show a lower positivity level. The Governor needed it to open everything up (after the nationwide shutdown).
Recent press this week describe Florida law enforcement arresting Rebekah Jones, the GIS director who refused to doctor the data, and was fired last May for insubordination. Apparently someone recently posted (hacked, according to the arrest) a call-out Internet post to staff to stand for the Truth (or somesuch). There is one log-in and one password, and everyone uses the same "Health Operations" account at the state's emergency operations center. Her GoFundMe is approaching $250K after only a few days.
Bottom line: No one can trust C-virus data from Florida. (But, it's all we have...)
Even more important: Johns Hopkins Univ. data show (as best we can determine) that Florida's "open up everything" has resulted in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths increasing. The current level of C-virus cases has overwhelmed Florida's testing-tracing program. Thankfully, Florida has not seen the "wildfire" level seen in some of the other states. Yet.
