RonC
RonC
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November 10th, 2011 at 6:00:28 PM permalink
I'm rolling the dice. I am on a monster roll. Everything is going right. The bets are made, the dice move, and the bets are paid. It is almost like clockwork because the dealers are doing a great job keeping the pace of the game--just as they had a few minutes before when everyone was on a losing streak. Same steady conditions until...you pick one or add one of your own...a fill suddenly arrives at a weird interval, a floor person takes extra long to make a determination about a bet, the cheques suddenly need a count verified, the dealers suddenly get slower, etc.

Is it ethical for a casino to INTENTIONALLY change the speed of play in order to attempt to break a winning streak?

You're playing blackjack and you can't count...but you are winning every time. Dealer hits a 20, you have 21. Your stack is pumped way up. A new dealer taps in early or the cards are shuffled before the normal penetration is reached.

Is it ethical for the casino to change the play in order to stop your streak?

I like casinos. I frequent them. I just don't think everything that they do is completely ethical. In my opinion, they are unethical if they do anything but play each game fairly and consistently.

How do you feel?
RonC
RonC
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November 10th, 2011 at 6:03:20 PM permalink
Clarification--it doesn't matter to me whether or not they really CAN alter the next roll of the dice--it is another random event in my opinion--but that they ATTEMPT to do it.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 10th, 2011 at 6:24:29 PM permalink
Quote: RonC


I like casinos. I frequent them. I just don't think everything that they do is completely ethical. In my opinion, they are unethical if they do anything but play each game fairly and consistently.

How do you feel?


I agree. But I don't think the speed of the game affects the House edge of any bet made. It doesn't, in fact, unless they're shuffling up a deck that has a positive count, only exception. Indeed, to increase the action (and the table hold), the number of hands per hour is crucial, so they should run the games at a steady pace.
But there are a lot of superstitious fools on both sides on the table.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Face
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Face
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November 10th, 2011 at 6:24:45 PM permalink
Well, you've already pointed out it doesn't affect your outcomes, so it seems they slow down your game, thereby slowing down how often the HA gets to work on you. Plus, it gives you a moment to come down off your superhero buzz so you can maybe recognize you've landed in the positive variance zone and should leave now before you give all your money back.

I fail to see the problem. I see it as bad business, since rounds = money and b.s. superstition moves = less rounds. It also may be bad customer service, if you do it so often people get bored and upset. But unethical? I can't see how it could be called that, since it seems to work unquestioningly in the players favor.
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FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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November 10th, 2011 at 6:32:03 PM permalink
Oh, its annoying but I doubt I'd say its unethical behavior. They should stick to normal dealer rotation and normal fill procedures. What are they suddenly so superstitious for that they want to send in a cooler?
MarieBicurie
MarieBicurie
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November 10th, 2011 at 6:40:09 PM permalink
I don't think it's a matter of breaking your streak or your rhythm. It think it's just a cheap way to make you want to leave the casino out of boredom/frustration.

I'm not really sure I get the is it ethical question. It's like asking if a con man is ethical. Of course not! Casinos are the same way. Their sole purpose for existing is to get you to part with your money. They are greedy and scummy. Everything they do is in their own best interests and in all likelihood unethical, but we all know this going in there.
RonC
RonC
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November 10th, 2011 at 7:04:05 PM permalink
Sure, it is an ethics question...they are trying to do something to alter the results of the "fair" game they are supposed to provide. Even if you are 100% certain it doesn't impact the outcome, it isn't ethical of them to make any attempt to alter the results of the game. Success or failure at the act does not make it any different ethically--it is the attempt to do something unethical that labels it as such.
Face
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Face
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November 10th, 2011 at 7:15:03 PM permalink
I can't see it as such. If someone tried to psych me out on a coin toss, I'd range from bemused to seriously pissed off depending on how much of a tool they wanted to be and how far they'd want to take it, but I couldn't call it unethical since it doesn't change the outcome.

I think calling a casino unethical based on your above examples would be no different than calling a player unethical for rubbing their lucky silver dollar, or chanting their lucky nonsense at the table. Those are also "attempts to alter the result" which likewise make not one bit of difference.
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DorothyGale
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November 10th, 2011 at 7:55:45 PM permalink
Quote: Face

I think calling a casino unethical based on your above examples would be no different than calling a player unethical for rubbing their lucky silver dollar, or chanting their lucky nonsense at the table. Those are also "attempts to alter the result" which likewise make not one bit of difference.

You, sir, see the light ...

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kaysirtap
kaysirtap
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November 11th, 2011 at 3:54:51 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

I am on a monster roll.... Same steady conditions until...you pick one or add one of your own

I think you should try to take notice of how often these things happen when you're not on a winning streak - which I think is safe to assume... is most of the time.
Quote: RonC

...a fill suddenly arrives at a weird interval,

Fills are not ordered in intervals. If you're really on a monster roll, I'm guessing that the bank is pretty low. This would indicate that they need a fill. How else would you have them pay you? Just borrow cheques from the next table?
Quote: RonC

a floor person takes extra long to make a determination about a bet,

You think the floor is taking too long to make a decision because he/she want to stop your streak? What motivation would the floor have for doing this? Do you think the floor gets a cut of what that table makes?
Quote: RonC

... the cheques suddenly need a count verified,

Bank/rank counts need to be done at certain times - you probably just don't notice it when you're blaming everyone else for your losing.
Quote: RonC

the dealers suddenly get slower, etc.

Dealers are not robots. The speed of a dealer can be affected by many different factors. Do you always do everything at the exact same speed?
Quote: RonC

Is it ethical for a casino to INTENTIONALLY change the speed of play in order to attempt to break a winning streak?

Do you also think that aliens are tapping your phone? The casino wants games with few interruptions because they have the potential to make more money than other ones.
Quote: RonC

A new dealer taps in early

Again - dealers are not robots. They tap in when they come back from break. Sometimes this is late because they were eating, or whatever. Sometimes this is early because they came back late last time and "owe" the other dealer some break time. Or maybe another game closed and the current dealer is going home early. Or a different dealer had to be replaced on a game, and the current dealer is the only one available who can deal the other game. Maybe the dealer had to go to the restroom. There are so many possibilities that you're likely not accounting for.
Quote: RonC

...the cards are shuffled before the normal penetration is reached.

Okay, you'd have to explain that one in a little more detail.
Quote: RonC

Is it ethical for the casino to change the play in order to stop your streak?

Seriously... aliens?
Quote: RonC

I like casinos. I frequent them. I just don't think everything that they do is completely ethical. In my opinion, they are unethical if they do anything but play each game fairly and consistently.

(See: House Edge) Do you think it's ethical for a bowling alley to actually CHARGE you for bowling there? Casinos are in the entertainment business, not the lets-offer-fair-games-to-the-public business. This entertainment they are providing you as a service comes with a price, just like most every other service industry. What's that? You're there to make money, not to be entertained? I think you're looking for the Human Resources department, not the casino floor.

Yes, the casino wants your money. But what they want even more is for you to have a good time so that you will come back.
Quote: RonC

How do you feel?

I think you should play the slots.

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