Live LA fire stream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdJw7QO571g

Or one of them. I think it's slowly moving across the field of view since I started watching.

Palisades fire: Fast-moving fire prompts evacuations - Fox 11 News LA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59hLkc6FDvQ





Aerial view of LA shows Pacific Palisades and Malibu engulfed in flames last night.


There's more fires. Winds will still be too high through the weekend. It's only Tuesday-Wednesday now.

Quote: rxwine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdJw7QO571g

Or one of them. I think it's slowly moving across the field of view since I started watching.
link to original post

Last night, when I first pulled up this live stream, it was only on the extreme right side. Now it's across the whole horizon.

BREAKING: Governor Newsom has ordered the mobilization of California’s National Guard to assist firefighters in battling wildfires across Los Angeles County, California. The Palisades Fire alone could become the “costliest” wildfire in U.S. history, according to reports, with LAFD Chief stating there are not enough firefighters to combat the blaze.
Las Vegas Valley is sending personnel from the Las Vegas, NV area to help and the state of Washington is reportedly sending personnel as well.

Due to California Wildfires there are 70K residents under evacuation order. City’s water tanks dry. Source has said.

Another round of Santa Ana winds are forecast for next week.

LA local news just reported the damage from the Eaton fire in Altadena has grown to 10K+ acres. Many hundreds of homes and businesses have burned to the ground. The wind is still gusty in the Los Angeles foothills and the embers are catching home after home on fire. It's incredibly sad. 0% containment. 150,000 under orders to leave and many nearby warned to leave.

President Biden says: I have directed the Department of Defense to rapidly provide additional firefighting personnel and capabilities to the region being impacted by the Southern California wildfires.
We also continue to work closely with the National Guard.
My thanks to the California National Guard and the Nevada National Guard for readying Airborne Firefighting Systems.
Ten Navy helicopters with water delivery buckets are on their way.

President Elect Trump says: Community notes says don't repeat it.

JUST IN🚨 AccuWeather estimates that the devastating Los Angeles area wildfires have caused preliminary damage and economic losses ranging from $52 billion to $57 billion.

Dr. Gupta recommends firefighters and reporters wear gas masks because of gasses in the smoke that N95 masks won't stop.

1.5 MILLION customers without power in Southern California, most of which are in Los Angeles County (940,270).

BREAKING: State Farm, one of the biggest insurers in California, canceled hundreds of homeowners' policies last summer in Pacific Palisades—the same area which is now being ravaged by a devastating wildfire, per Newsweek.

Paris Hilton's beachfront home in Malibu has been reduced to a pile of burning rubble ... TMZ has learned.
Sources familiar with the situation tell us her beach house is completely gone after being burned to a crisp in the devastating Palisades fire.

Fox 11 News LA
LIVE UPDATES: California fires torch Los Angeles, Palisades, Malibu, Pasadena, Sylmar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59VF9WASKDU

Quote: ChumpChange

BREAKING: Governor Newsom has ordered the mobilization of California’s National Guard to assist firefighters in battling wildfires across Los Angeles County, California. The Palisades Fire alone could become the “costliest” wildfire in U.S. history, according to reports, with LAFD Chief stating there are not enough firefighters to combat the blaze.
Las Vegas Valley is sending personnel from the Las Vegas, NV area to help and the state of Washington is reportedly sending personnel as well.

Due to California Wildfires there are 70K residents under evacuation order. City’s water tanks dry. Source has said.

Another round of Santa Ana winds are forecast for next week.
link to original post

An emotional James Woods talks about losing his uninsured house and all his possessions yesterday in the fire. Like many people in California his insurance company canceled his fire coverage 2 months ago because the state refuses to cooperate with the insurance companies and how to assess coverage.

High wind and fire.

Grab what you can and head out the door! If you're with someone who likes to dither about and be indecisive, good freakin' luck.

I lived in California for seven years, it's always burning down. James Woods is going on about the view that he had from his house. My feeling is always, those views are expensive as you're just finding out. He knew there was an extreme fire danger, everybody knows it who lives there. But they live there anyway. It's like people who live on a floodplain and then moan and groan that the insurance company won't give them coverage because the insurance company knows you're going to be flooded eventually and wiped out. But enjoy the view of the river while you're there.

Quote: EvenBob

I lived in California for seven years, it's always burning down. James Woods is going on about the view that he had from his house. My feeling is always, those views are expensive as you're just finding out. He knew there was an extreme fire danger, everybody knows it who lives there. But they live there anyway. It's like people who live on a floodplain and then moan and groan that the insurance company won't give them coverage because the insurance company knows you're going to be flooded eventually and wiped out. But enjoy the view of the river while you're there.
link to original post

Even people who have plenty of money can overindulge beyond their means. Michael Jackson must have wasted millions of dollars to end up in the hole. And now he’s in a hole permanently.

Los Angeles County fire victims flee to Las Vegas for safety

Over 10,000 buildings lost damage estimate is $150 billion dollars. And it's still going on, some of the fires are not contained at all. It's hilarious watching everybody play the blame game. My feeling is live in California expect to lose everything you own about once every 20 years to some kind of natural catastrophe.

Quote: EvenBob

Over 10,000 buildings lost damage estimate is $150 billion dollars. And it's still going on, some of the fires are not contained at all. It's hilarious watching everybody play the blame game. My feeling is live in California expect to lose everything you own about once every 20 years to some kind of natural catastrophe.
link to original post

I felt the 1989 earthquake, and saw the 2017 "wine valley" fires firsthand (okay, the closest I saw was the glow of the fire about to crest a hill that I don't think it actually crested), plus my house was in a tsunami warning zone a few months ago, yet I haven't lost a thing...says the guy seriously planning on moving to Las Vegas in the next few months.

In my head, I've invented an inflatable lightweight aluminum foil house cover. You drape it over your house and start pumping in some heated air, so you have a inflated tent over your house.

Of course, I just imagined it failing under 100mph gusts. You might be able to stake in place if winds aren't above the 20's.

Quote:

I am using my moratorium powers to prevent insurance companies from canceling or non-renewing policies in wildfire-impacted areas, so people don’t face the added stress of finding new insurance during this horrific event," Commissioner Ricardo Lara said

Google tells me someone in a fire tower can spot a fire on average about 15 miles. LA has lots of high points including buildings. Made me wonder if they have spotting technology hooked up to web/traffic cameras. Setting up remote cameras ought to be fairly economical considering the amount of potential damage.

Saw one video where flames were blown all the way down the mountain in one push of very high winds. Ashes are being blown miles and miles.

Quote: rxwine

Google tells me someone in a fire tower can spot a fire on average about 15 miles. LA has lots of high points including buildings. Made me wonder if they have spotting technology hooked up to web/traffic cameras. Setting up remote cameras ought to be fairly economical considering the amount of potential damage.
link to original post

Drones and using commercial real-time satellite imagery are other low cost options for spotting wildfires as soon as they break out, much cheaper than using manned aircraft.

Pinned by Sharon K. Gillenwater
@sharonkgillenwater
2 days ago
I can no longer keep up with the comments! So excuse me if I cannot reply to every one.

Quote: rxwine

Pinned by Sharon K. Gillenwater
@sharonkgillenwater
2 days ago
I can no longer keep up with the comments! So excuse me if I cannot reply to every one.

link to original post

I've said here many times why my wife's nephew is an insurance adjuster for a major company and his entire purpose in life is to screw people on the money they get. He loves it because he's a bully. He tried to go into law enforcement so he could be a professional bully but he got rejected so now he just screws people on insurance claims. I've heard at least three retired Insurance executives say exactly the same thing on TV. The insurance companies entire goal is to pay you as little as possible anyway they can. And this lady in the video is right the nephew gets rewards for the bigger screw jobs that he does.

In some cases, where property location is good, people are recouping a good return. Improved building codes might save the new owners from the same amount of risk. I don’t know if they are modifying the code again. Seems like they might.

Quote:

Demand has calmed slightly from the frantic days when the flames were still roaring, according to Schulman, the broker for the burned Palisades home. He had a listing near the evacuation area that went on the market Jan. 7, the day the fires erupted, for $3.295 million. It sold in five days for $4.4 million in cash. 

Quote: rxwine

In some cases, where property location is good, people are recouping a good return. Improved building codes might save the new owners from the same amount of risk. I don’t know if they are modifying the code again. Seems like they might.

Quote:

Demand has calmed slightly from the frantic days when the flames were still roaring, according to Schulman, the broker for the burned Palisades home. He had a listing near the evacuation area that went on the market Jan. 7, the day the fires erupted, for $3.295 million. It sold in five days for $4.4 million in cash. 

link to original post

Now it rains everyday and the remains of the houses that burned, some of them are sliding down mountains in mudslides. There's mud everywhere, Highway 1 is closed in places. When I lived in California it was always something. There's always too much or too little of something or there was earthquakes. You live with a certain amount of stress all the time.

Figure this is good enough thread Disaster link.


One of the Jamaica live stream cams out there. Might have to go to YT directly. Probably not too much for another 12 hours.

Quote: rxwine

Figure this is good enough thread Disaster link.


One of the Jamaica live stream cams out there. Might have to go to YT directly. Probably not too much for another 12 hours.

link to original post

I have been to Jamaica three times and have no interest in returning. I think it is a place that could benefit from a hurricane.

I'm sure the millions living in sub-standard housing appreciate your thoughts.

Quote: billryan

I'm sure the millions living in sub-standard housing appreciate your thoughts.
link to original post

If it hits with the kind of force it's producing right now, they'll be lucky if there is anything left at al.

Because of its tropical location, Jamaica's sunrise times do not change dramatically throughout the year. For comparison, in June, the sun rises around 5:30 a.m. in Kingston, while in December, it rises around 6:30 a.m..
The sunset in Jamaica is renowned for its vibrant colors and stunning beauty. Due to the island's proximity to the equator, sunsets are relatively quick, lasting only about 25 minutes.
Sunrise in Kingston today: 6:05 AM EST
Sunset in Kingston today: 5:37 PM EST
Jamaica has only one time zone and does not observe daylight saving time. During winter, Jamaican Time is equivalent to North American Eastern Standard Time, whereas in the summer it is equivalent to Central Daylight Time.
The Cayman Islands, Jamaica, and Navassa Island use Eastern Standard Time year-round. The Turks and Caicos Islands followed Eastern Time with daylight saving until 2015, when the territory switched to the Atlantic Time Zone.

No, you generally cannot go to Jamaica without a U.S. passport for air travel. A valid U.S. passport is required for all air travelers to Jamaica, though a visa is not needed for stays under 90 days. For cruise travel, alternative documents like a passport card or enhanced driver's license may be acceptable, but a passport book is highly recommended in case of unexpected air travel.

Quote: ChumpChange

Because of its tropical location, Jamaica's sunrise times do not change dramatically throughout the year. For comparison, in June, the sun rises around 5:30 a.m. in Kingston, while in December, it rises around 6:30 a.m..
The sunset in Jamaica is renowned for its vibrant colors and stunning beauty. Due to the island's proximity to the equator, sunsets are relatively quick, lasting only about 25 minutes.
Sunrise in Kingston today: 6:05 AM EST
Sunset in Kingston today: 5:37 PM EST
Jamaica has only one time zone and does not observe daylight saving time. During winter, Jamaican Time is equivalent to North American Eastern Standard Time, whereas in the summer it is equivalent to Central Daylight Time.
The Cayman Islands, Jamaica, and Navassa Island use Eastern Standard Time year-round. The Turks and Caicos Islands followed Eastern Time with daylight saving until 2015, when the territory switched to the Atlantic Time Zone.

No, you generally cannot go to Jamaica without a U.S. passport for air travel. A valid U.S. passport is required for all air travelers to Jamaica, though a visa is not needed for stays under 90 days. For cruise travel, alternative documents like a passport card or enhanced driver's license may be acceptable, but a passport book is highly recommended in case of unexpected air travel.
link to original post

CC, are you spewing AI summaries without attribution?
(Don't do that.)

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Figure this is good enough thread Disaster link.


One of the Jamaica live stream cams out there. Might have to go to YT directly. Probably not too much for another 12 hours.

link to original post

I have been to Jamaica three times and have no interest in returning. I think it is a place that could benefit from a hurricane.
link to original post

Drich, I am half Jamaican and don't like your post at all. 😐

dewa keberuntungan tidak ada di semua orang bahkan jika langit cerah, hujan mungkin akan datang - pepatah thai - amin

Not the same fire, but just decided to use this thread.

If your first question was, how does a freakin’ beach hotel fire get so out of control, as was mine.

A third-world country maintains third-world fire codes and firefighting.

Quote: Nathan

Quote: DRich

Quote: rxwine

Figure this is good enough thread Disaster link.


One of the Jamaica live stream cams out there. Might have to go to YT directly. Probably not too much for another 12 hours.

link to original post

I have been to Jamaica three times and have no interest in returning. I think it is a place that could benefit from a hurricane.
link to original post

Drich, I am half Jamaican and don't like your post at all. 😐
link to original post

How much time have you spent in Jamaica? I am guessing not much or else you would probably agree with me. I grew up around Cleveland and believe a hurricane would have improved parts of it.

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

How brilliant. People breed crime, not public housing projects. Why didn't anyone think of that? If you eliminate the residents, the buildings probably won't go out and commit a crime.
Kill all the residents and eliminate the crime. If we can manage to eliminate humanity, the crime rate will almost certainly fall.
What a Gordinian solution.

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?

Quote: billryan

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?
link to original post

Its not just poverty that causes crime it’s the culture. I spend 4-6 months in Cambodia every year and it’s very poor and yet the crime rate is very low.

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: billryan

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?
link to original post

Its not just poverty that causes crime it’s the culture. I spend 4-6 months in Cambodia every year and it’s very poor and yet the crime rate is very low.
link to original post

Have the people of Cambodia recovered from the Khmer Rouge? I'd imagine those turds killed off most of the criminals, no?

Quote: billryan

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: billryan

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?
link to original post

Its not just poverty that causes crime it’s the culture. I spend 4-6 months in Cambodia every year and it’s very poor and yet the crime rate is very low.
link to original post

Have the people of Cambodia recovered from the Khmer Rouge? I'd imagine those turds killed off most of the criminals, no?
link to original post

Yes the country has improved a lot in the last 20 years but there’s still a tremendous amount of poverty. Many families survive on $10 a day or less. There’s still a lot of corruption but probably not any worse than the U.S..

Quote: billryan

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: billryan

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?
link to original post

Its not just poverty that causes crime it’s the culture. I spend 4-6 months in Cambodia every year and it’s very poor and yet the crime rate is very low.
link to original post

Have the people of Cambodia recovered from the Khmer Rouge? I'd imagine those turds killed off most of the criminals, no?
link to original post

No, billryan, the Khmer rouge did not kill off most of the criminals.

Wiki reports:
"The Khmer Rouge, led by Pol Pot, systematically targeted a wide range of groups, including political opponents, intellectuals, professionals, ethnic minorities, and religious communities. Estimates of deaths range from 1.5 to 3 million people, representing approximately 25% of Cambodia’s population at the time (c. 7.8 million) . Victims included ethnic Vietnamese, Cham Muslims, Chinese Cambodians, Buddhist monks, teachers, doctors, and anyone associated with Western values or the former government

Methods of Persecution
The Khmer Rouge emptied cities and forced people into rural labor camps, where they endured starvation, disease, overwork, torture, and executions . Prisoners at sites like Tuol Sleng (S-21) were often electrocuted, whipped, or beaten to death, with only seven survivors out of 20,000 . In the Killing Fields, victims were executed with spades or bamboo sticks to conserve ammunition, and mass graves were common

The atrocities of the Khmer Rouge remain a stark reminder of the consequences of extremist ideology and unchecked power."

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: billryan

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?
link to original post

Its not just poverty that causes crime it’s the culture. I spend 4-6 months in Cambodia every year and it’s very poor and yet the crime rate is very low.
link to original post

Have the people of Cambodia recovered from the Khmer Rouge? I'd imagine those turds killed off most of the criminals, no?
link to original post

No, billryan, the Khmer rouge did not kill off most of the criminals.

Wiki reports:
"The Khmer Rouge, led by Pol Pot, systematically targeted a wide range of groups, including political opponents, intellectuals, professionals, ethnic minorities, and religious communities. Estimates of deaths range from 1.5 to 3 million people, representing approximately 25% of Cambodia’s population at the time (c. 7.8 million) . Victims included ethnic Vietnamese, Cham Muslims, Chinese Cambodians, Buddhist monks, teachers, doctors, and anyone associated with Western values or the former government

Methods of Persecution
The Khmer Rouge emptied cities and forced people into rural labor camps, where they endured starvation, disease, overwork, torture, and executions . Prisoners at sites like Tuol Sleng (S-21) were often electrocuted, whipped, or beaten to death, with only seven survivors out of 20,000 . In the Killing Fields, victims were executed with spades or bamboo sticks to conserve ammunition, and mass graves were common

The atrocities of the Khmer Rouge remain a stark reminder of the consequences of extremist ideology and unchecked power."
link to original post

Are you suggesting the KR treated criminals better? Did they free all the prisoners when they took over, or were the people in prison the first victims of their atrocities? Your cut and paste answer doesn't address that at all.
Several sources say that many Cambodians still suffer from mental stress related to the Khmer Rouge and its treatment of their family members.

"but they got a bunch of the criminals too" sounds like something from a Marxist apologist

Quote: odiousgambit

"but they got a bunch of the criminals too" sounds like something from a Marxist apologist
link to original post

Really? Does calling them a bunch of turds sound like a Marxist apologist as well?
It was a simple question- did the KR's targeted killing of criminals help with Cambodia's lower crime rate a generation later?

If Gordos's cut-and-paste answer made even one more person aware of the evil of the KR, great, because it did nothing to answer my question.

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: billryan

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

I've been to Jamaica twice. Once I attended Sun Splash in Montego Bay, and once I spent two weeks backpacking around the opposite end of the island. There is a lot of natural beauty there, but the poverty is overwhelming, and crime is omnipresent. Many people live in public housing projects that breed crime. There are no jobs, schools suck, and the only real chance most kids have is immigration,, crime or music.
link to original post

People breed crime, not public housing projects. If public housing projects breed crime then what of the government's tiny houses for homeless in your state that you support?

There has also been overwhelming poverty in Asian countries but the culture and the commitment to parenting were different than in Jamaica. I take the world for what it is and try to avoid dangerous places where crime is rampant. So I would not lose sleep over Drich's Cat 5 hurricane.
link to original post

It is the crime that causes the poverty. A low-trust society does not promote investment or improvement.
link to original post

Perhaps, but if we eliminate people, both crime and poverty will go down. Why complicate things?
link to original post

Its not just poverty that causes crime it’s the culture. I spend 4-6 months in Cambodia every year and it’s very poor and yet the crime rate is very low.
link to original post

Have the people of Cambodia recovered from the Khmer Rouge? I'd imagine those turds killed off most of the criminals, no?
link to original post

No, billryan, the Khmer rouge did not kill off most of the criminals.

Wiki reports:
"The Khmer Rouge, led by Pol Pot, systematically targeted a wide range of groups, including political opponents, intellectuals, professionals, ethnic minorities, and religious communities. Estimates of deaths range from 1.5 to 3 million people, representing approximately 25% of Cambodia’s population at the time (c. 7.8 million) . Victims included ethnic Vietnamese, Cham Muslims, Chinese Cambodians, Buddhist monks, teachers, doctors, and anyone associated with Western values or the former government

Methods of Persecution
The Khmer Rouge emptied cities and forced people into rural labor camps, where they endured starvation, disease, overwork, torture, and executions . Prisoners at sites like Tuol Sleng (S-21) were often electrocuted, whipped, or beaten to death, with only seven survivors out of 20,000 . In the Killing Fields, victims were executed with spades or bamboo sticks to conserve ammunition, and mass graves were common

The atrocities of the Khmer Rouge remain a stark reminder of the consequences of extremist ideology and unchecked power."
link to original post

Are you suggesting the KR treated criminals better? Did they free all the prisoners when they took over, or were the people in prison the first victims of their atrocities? Your cut and paste answer doesn't address that at all.
Several sources say that many Cambodians still suffer from mental stress related to the Khmer Rouge and its treatment of their family members.
link to original post

Yes many of the older Cambodians who survived pol pot suffer from ptsd or similar. In my house I can never watch any movies with war scenes or torture or beatings, unless I’m alone. We still visit some of the smugglers who helped my wife’s family escape and get to the Thai border.
They had to swim across a river that was filled with dead bodies and shots were being fired. They had a log that they floated across and tried to hide behind.Most of the survivors still hoard food to this day because they remember the starvation they went through.

Quote: billryan

Quote: odiousgambit

"but they got a bunch of the criminals too" sounds like something from a Marxist apologist
link to original post

Really? Does calling them a bunch of turds sound like a Marxist apologist as well?
It was a simple question- did the KR's targeted killing of criminals help with Cambodia's lower crime rate a generation later?

If Gordos's cut-and-paste answer made even one more person aware of the evil of the KR, great, because it did nothing to answer my question.
link to original post

That has nothing to do with the lower crime rate. It’s just a cultural difference. Many of the people killed were the most educated people so in general those people would be less likely to commit crimes. So that’s the opposite of what you are saying. Even in the city I live in over there , single young women walk around at night time with almost no problems. Try that in Jamaica or Dominican Republic or many other places and those girls would be attacked.

Quote: billryan

Quote: odiousgambit

"but they got a bunch of the criminals too" sounds like something from a Marxist apologist
link to original post

Really? Does calling them a bunch of turds sound like a Marxist apologist as well?
It was a simple question- did the KR's targeted killing of criminals help with Cambodia's lower crime rate a generation later?

If Gordos's cut-and-paste answer made even one more person aware of the evil of the KR, great, because it did nothing to answer my question.
link to original post

You're overlooking the obvious- the Khmer Rouge were the criminals.

In the Third World, when a criminal gang wins a civil war and takes over a country, they put on uniforms, give themselves glorious titles and ranks, pin medals on one another, and call themselves a "government." The ones responsible for the most violence are dubbed "Generals," as if they ever went to a military academy and studied strategy. Only the losers of the war get called "criminals" and treated accordingly. That is the way most of the world lives.

Ordinary Cambodian people have a low crime rate because they have a Buddhist culture featuring dignity for the individual and respect for the society and its traditions, and one does not advance in that society by being a criminal. So the behavior is discouraged. They are also East Asians and have somewhat high intelligence to recognize those extra logical steps that show how criminality leads to failure and rejection, and to discover prosocial alternatives to criminality.

The Khmer Rouge were murderous scum. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.
.