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billryan
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February 11th, 2023 at 8:23:05 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Everybody is ignoring the issue of language and the ability to communicate. If that's the groundrule then, hey, okay , , , but just saying that Adam and Jesus are going to be hard to communicate with.
link to original post




Even when he was alive, Jesus had the gift of tongues. If we can ignore that the person is long dead, I think we can ignore the language barrier. For arguments sake, let us assume the lunch takes place in Cynosure, perhaps at Mundens.
link to original post

Jesus, how's it feel knowing you and your cohorts pulled off the biggest most epic con of all time? Now let's talk about religious wars. We can get to the good things religion has done later.

FYI your mother wasn't a Virgin, but you probably already know that. Speaking of virgins, have you heard the one about the 3 priests, 3 young boys, and a fishing trip? It's a good one.

How about the priest and a rabbi sitting at the playground bench when a young boy walks by?

Anyways, now that we are good friends any chance of a free pass into heaven, you know, just in case? At least give me some lottery numbers if you are legit.

Oh, I was wondering...The Wizard sold his sole for like a dollar, is he totally F'd?

Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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February 12th, 2023 at 9:06:46 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Everybody is ignoring the issue of language and the ability to communicate. If that's the groundrule then, hey, okay , , , but just saying that Adam and Jesus are going to be hard to communicate with.
link to original post




Even when he was alive, Jesus had the gift of tongues. If we can ignore that the person is long dead, I think we can ignore the language barrier. For arguments sake, let us assume the lunch takes place in Cynosure, perhaps at Mundens.
link to original post

Jesus, how's it feel knowing you and your cohorts pulled off the biggest most epic con of all time? Now let's talk about religious wars. We can get to the good things religion has done later.

FYI your mother wasn't a Virgin, but you probably already know that. Speaking of virgins, have you heard the one about the 3 priests, 3 young boys, and a fishing trip? It's a good one.

How about the priest and a rabbi sitting at the playground bench when a young boy walks by?

Anyways, now that we are good friends any chance of a free pass into heaven, you know, just in case? At least give me some lottery numbers if you are legit.

Oh, I was wondering...The Wizard sold his sole for like a dollar, is he totally F'd?

Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post

WWJD? Just because something specific isn't covered as a sin in the bible, you don't think it can be a sin?

The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble. If not, they are just lying to themselves, or they are ignorant.

There are a number of religions and religious leaders, ministers/preachers/pastors that consider it to be a sin.
If it's being debated and it's not something you're doing for God If you believe it's not something God wants you to do it's a sin.

The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible, real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble. If not, they are just lying to themselves, or they are ignorant.

https://billygraham.org/answer/is-it-appropriate-for-a-christian-to-gamble/



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1977/08/05/catholics-protestants-still-differ-over-gambling/c59e1538-fe97-48a5-80ea-945a473cb23c/

Here are some arguments as to why it's a sin.
http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_93.htm#whySin

https://renew.org/is-gambling-a-sin/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-xfnpzZ10g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8enXjJ5CQKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtKvZfP58yc
DR MYLES MUNROE "Gambling is ungodly"
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mental
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February 12th, 2023 at 9:14:56 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

WWJD? Just because something specific isn't covered as a sin in the bible, you don't think it can be a sin?link to original post

If all gambling was advantage gambling, then it would be a sin to run a casino but not to gamble in one.

There are problem gamblers, but none of them are APs.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
billryan
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February 12th, 2023 at 9:29:05 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Everybody is ignoring the issue of language and the ability to communicate. If that's the groundrule then, hey, okay , , , but just saying that Adam and Jesus are going to be hard to communicate with.
link to original post




Even when he was alive, Jesus had the gift of tongues. If we can ignore that the person is long dead, I think we can ignore the language barrier. For arguments sake, let us assume the lunch takes place in Cynosure, perhaps at Mundens.
link to original post

Jesus, how's it feel knowing you and your cohorts pulled off the biggest most epic con of all time? Now let's talk about religious wars. We can get to the good things religion has done later.

FYI your mother wasn't a Virgin, but you probably already know that. Speaking of virgins, have you heard the one about the 3 priests, 3 young boys, and a fishing trip? It's a good one.

How about the priest and a rabbi sitting at the playground bench when a young boy walks by?

Anyways, now that we are good friends any chance of a free pass into heaven, you know, just in case? At least give me some lottery numbers if you are legit.

Oh, I was wondering...The Wizard sold his sole for like a dollar, is he totally F'd?

Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post

WWJD? Just because something specific isn't covered as a sin in the bible, you don't think it can be a sin?

The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble. If not, they are just lying to themselves, or they are ignorant.

There are a number of religions and religious leaders, ministers/preachers/pastors that consider it to be a sin.
If it's being debated and it's not something you're doing for God If you believe it's not something God wants you to do it's a sin.

The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible, real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble. If not, they are just lying to themselves, or they are ignorant.

https://billygraham.org/answer/is-it-appropriate-for-a-christian-to-gamble/



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1977/08/05/catholics-protestants-still-differ-over-gambling/c59e1538-fe97-48a5-80ea-945a473cb23c/

Here are some arguments as to why it's a sin.
http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_93.htm#whySin

https://renew.org/is-gambling-a-sin/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-xfnpzZ10g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8enXjJ5CQKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtKvZfP58yc
DR MYLES MUNROE "Gambling is ungodly"
link to original post




The ignorance in that post is incredible.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AxelWolf
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February 14th, 2023 at 10:22:21 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: AxelWolf

WWJD? Just because something specific isn't covered as a sin in the bible, you don't think it can be a sin?link to original post

If all gambling was advantage gambling, then it would be a sin to run a casino but not to gamble in one.

There are problem gamblers, but none of them are APs.
link to original post

I agree If that's how you supported yourself and family, and you pay your tithes and offerings.

It's a moot point since I don't believe in God. I respect those who do. For the most part, I think believing in God and going to church is a good thing.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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February 14th, 2023 at 11:16:12 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Everybody is ignoring the issue of language and the ability to communicate. If that's the groundrule then, hey, okay , , , but just saying that Adam and Jesus are going to be hard to communicate with.
link to original post




Even when he was alive, Jesus had the gift of tongues. If we can ignore that the person is long dead, I think we can ignore the language barrier. For arguments sake, let us assume the lunch takes place in Cynosure, perhaps at Mundens.
link to original post

Jesus, how's it feel knowing you and your cohorts pulled off the biggest most epic con of all time? Now let's talk about religious wars. We can get to the good things religion has done later.

FYI your mother wasn't a Virgin, but you probably already know that. Speaking of virgins, have you heard the one about the 3 priests, 3 young boys, and a fishing trip? It's a good one.

How about the priest and a rabbi sitting at the playground bench when a young boy walks by?

Anyways, now that we are good friends any chance of a free pass into heaven, you know, just in case? At least give me some lottery numbers if you are legit.

Oh, I was wondering...The Wizard sold his sole for like a dollar, is he totally F'd?

Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post

WWJD? Just because something specific isn't covered as a sin in the bible, you don't think it can be a sin?

The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble. If not, they are just lying to themselves, or they are ignorant.

There are a number of religions and religious leaders, ministers/preachers/pastors that consider it to be a sin.
If it's being debated and it's not something you're doing for God If you believe it's not something God wants you to do it's a sin.

The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible, real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble. If not, they are just lying to themselves, or they are ignorant.

https://billygraham.org/answer/is-it-appropriate-for-a-christian-to-gamble/



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1977/08/05/catholics-protestants-still-differ-over-gambling/c59e1538-fe97-48a5-80ea-945a473cb23c/

Here are some arguments as to why it's a sin.
http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_93.htm#whySin

https://renew.org/is-gambling-a-sin/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-xfnpzZ10g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8enXjJ5CQKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtKvZfP58yc
DR MYLES MUNROE "Gambling is ungodly"
link to original post




The ignorance in that post is incredible.
link to original post

Why is that? You asked and stated... "What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible."


I gave some examples of reasons it's considered a sin along with some videos related to the subject. I didn't even mention Islam/ Muslim and I believe it's the 2nd biggest religion in the world. From what I understand It's actually a significant sin to them.

FYI it's certainly a sin if it's being done in a location prohibited by law.

Gambling was mostly prohibited back around 1910 ish and largely because religious leaders and politicians believed it to be sinful.
Once the Catholic's realized how profitable bingo could be they changed their tune.

Heck, at one time the Catholic church actually considered playing pool to be sinful and banned it.

IMO If there are actually people of the same faith saying yes and even the ones who say "in and of itself, perhaps not" but even those people say it's a hard question and a fine line.

I'm almost certain that Jesus would condone going to casinos and gambling.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
billryan
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February 14th, 2023 at 2:04:30 PM permalink
Jesus gave us one law. Love one another. It's all you need. Don't worry about eating meat on Friday, or not working on the Sabbath. Please don't confuse people who call themselves Christians with people who follow his teachings.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
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February 14th, 2023 at 4:11:29 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Jesus gave us one law. Love one another. It's all you need. Don't worry about eating meat on Friday, or not working on the Sabbath. Please don't confuse people who call themselves Christians with people who follow his teachings.
link to original post



Warning: In this forum, it is not appropriate to denounce religious belief systems and/or their followers. Or to promote them, for that matter. Steer clear of these behaviors.

And, more generally this thread is being hijacked by a discussion about how various religions view gambling, which is on-topic for the forum but off topic for this thread. If you guys want to continue with this, please speak up and we will split it into a separate thread.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
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February 14th, 2023 at 4:47:15 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Quote: billryan

Jesus gave us one law. Love one another. It's all you need. Don't worry about eating meat on Friday, or not working on the Sabbath. Please don't confuse people who call themselves Christians with people who follow his teachings.
link to original post



Warning: In this forum, it is not appropriate to denounce religious belief systems and/or their followers. Or to promote them, for that matter. Steer clear of these behaviors.

And, more generally this thread is being hijacked by a discussion about how various religions view gambling, which is on-topic for the forum but off topic for this thread. If you guys want to continue with this, please speak up and we will split it into a separate thread.
link to original post

Feel free to split it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
billryan
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February 14th, 2023 at 4:51:47 PM permalink
Works for me.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
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February 15th, 2023 at 10:00:05 AM permalink
This is a new thread that has been split off from the thread about choosing one historical person to meet. This is not a license to express contentious viewpoints about religion that have nothing to do with whether "Gambling is a Sin as viewed by organized religions." Please stay on topic.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
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February 15th, 2023 at 10:21:55 AM permalink
Whether or not gambling is considered a religious sin depends on the specific religious beliefs and teachings of a particular faith. Some religions, such as Islam and Judaism, view gambling as a sin and prohibit it. In Islam, gambling is considered "haram" (forbidden) because it is believed to lead to greed, deception, and other negative outcomes. Similarly, in Judaism, gambling is generally discouraged because it is believed to go against the principles of responsible stewardship and charity.

In Christianity, opinions on gambling can vary depending on the denomination and interpretation of scripture. Some Christians view gambling as a form of greed or a violation of the commandment not to covet, while others view it as a harmless form of entertainment or a matter of personal choice.

In general, many religious traditions emphasize the importance of responsible stewardship and caution against excessive risk-taking or reckless behavior. It is important to consult the teachings and leaders of your own faith for guidance on this matter
billryan
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February 15th, 2023 at 11:45:19 AM permalink
Catholics believe gambling is okay under a set of circumstances. First, you must gamble with your own money; it can't be money needed for any debt. In other words, you can't gamble the rent money or your kid's tuition.
You can't borrow money to gamble, and it has to be a fair game. Gambling at an advantage is okay, but cheating is not.
There may be another prohibition or two, but that's the bulk of it.
That's not a modern interpretation, this has been church teachings for a long time.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
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February 15th, 2023 at 2:42:46 PM permalink
Gambling is not prohibited or condemned in Buddhism.

But being religious is in itself a gamble, because you are betting that the one religion you picked to follow is true, and all the thousands of other religions that have existed in the world are not.

Quote: AxelWolf


The bible may not outright condemn gambling, but based on the general doctrine of the bible, real followers of God know it's a sin to gamble.
link to original post



This is a No True Scotsman fallacy.
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February 15th, 2023 at 2:55:18 PM permalink
A fair game, played with low enough stakes to not take money away from other obligations, and played purely for entertainment, is not a sin in the Catholic Church. For other religions, YMMV.

Play with money that takes away a roof over your family's heads or food off the table, then that's s sin.

Falsely accuse a player of cheating because you're a poker-bro who thinks Game Play "Optimal" is Game Play "Guaranteed". then that's a sin.

I could go on,

As an aside, before he recently passed away, a Jesuit priest who was also a math teacher at a local Catholic high school would, at the end of each school year, teach a class about casino math and the statistics behind popular casino games. The class sessions were always well-attended by his pupils. If the Jesuits taught casino games, how sinful can gambling really be?
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February 15th, 2023 at 6:56:54 PM permalink
Is some religions yes and some religions no.

Islam and Mormonism are against gambling.

In the case of Islam, the Koran bans gambling. This is probably the most clear-cut example, it is plainly written in the text. And, practiced by every Islamic country (countries where Islam is the State Religion).

In the case of Mormonism, it is not expressly banned in the text to my understanding, but the way the Church takes it upon itself to prohibit gambling for members (that is how it was explained to me). In Mormonism the leaders of the Church are viewed as talking directly to God so they have a lot of power to make rules. I have read the bible and the Koran (translations obviously), but have never read the Book of Mormon so I cannot say firsthand, this is just what I have been told. And, since the head of the church talks directly to God going against official church teachings are considered sins (to my understanding). So, by that logic it is safe to consider gambling a sin in Mormonism.

Gambling is not a sin in Christianity or Judaism (at least not any mainstream version, I am sure you can find a denomination that has Church teachings against it).

Scientology, I actually do not know (so much of the religion is behind a paywall, you only hear what people -usually former members- say). But, I never recall hearing anything about gambling from what I have read or watched from former members.

Hinduism and Buddhism I am not sure either. I read the Bhagavad Gita years ago for some class in college, I don't remember much, I know two Hindus that gamble regularly (of course anecdotes are a bad measure for what is a sin in-text), but I don't recall anything about gambling in the text when I did read it (I honestly don't recall all that much though to be honest, other than it was some new English translation that was supposedly the best of all time, but just seemed confusingly worded to me....). I don't even know what the holy text of Buddhism is (definitely never read it), and I don't think I know any actual Buddhists, so no clue there.
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February 15th, 2023 at 6:57:25 PM permalink
Playing poker is a sin in Christianity if you behave as if Mike Postle is truly a Poker God.
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February 15th, 2023 at 7:07:50 PM permalink
Dreidel is a gambling game that is interwoven in Jewish custom.

I believe our non Jewish Wizard was gifted a dreidel?
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February 15th, 2023 at 7:09:15 PM permalink
Since the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster specifially touts "flimsy moral standards" in their recruiting pamphlets, I assume they're fine with gambling.
May the cards fall in your favor.
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February 16th, 2023 at 12:13:40 AM permalink
It would be a sin to operate a casino but not to gamble there if all gambling involved an advantage.

Problem gamblers do exist, but none of them are APs.
/com-qualcomm-atfwd/
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February 16th, 2023 at 4:47:11 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.



Islam

“They ask you [Muhammad] concerning wine and gambling. Say: ‘In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit.’… Thus does Allah Make clear to you His Signs, in order that you may consider” (Quran 2:219)."
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February 16th, 2023 at 7:07:11 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Everybody is ignoring the issue of language and the ability to communicate. If that's the groundrule then, hey, okay , , , but just saying that Adam and Jesus are going to be hard to communicate with.
link to original post




Even when he was alive, Jesus had the gift of tongues. If we can ignore that the person is long dead, I think we can ignore the language barrier. For arguments sake, let us assume the lunch takes place in Cynosure, perhaps at Mundens.
link to original post

Jesus, how's it feel knowing you and your cohorts pulled off the biggest most epic con of all time? Now let's talk about religious wars. We can get to the good things religion has done later.

FYI your mother wasn't a Virgin, but you probably already know that. Speaking of virgins, have you heard the one about the 3 priests, 3 young boys, and a fishing trip? It's a good one.

How about the priest and a rabbi sitting at the playground bench when a young boy walks by?

Anyways, now that we are good friends any chance of a free pass into heaven, you know, just in case? At least give me some lottery numbers if you are legit.

Oh, I was wondering...The Wizard sold his sole for like a dollar, is he totally F'd?

Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



Wherein I investigated this question for several religions and Christian denominations:

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/dice-and-divity

That's pretty long, so I don't really have anything to add in-thread absent directed questions.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
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February 16th, 2023 at 8:38:20 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: gordonm888

Everybody is ignoring the issue of language and the ability to communicate. If that's the groundrule then, hey, okay , , , but just saying that Adam and Jesus are going to be hard to communicate with.
link to original post




Even when he was alive, Jesus had the gift of tongues. If we can ignore that the person is long dead, I think we can ignore the language barrier. For arguments sake, let us assume the lunch takes place in Cynosure, perhaps at Mundens.
link to original post

Jesus, how's it feel knowing you and your cohorts pulled off the biggest most epic con of all time? Now let's talk about religious wars. We can get to the good things religion has done later.

FYI your mother wasn't a Virgin, but you probably already know that. Speaking of virgins, have you heard the one about the 3 priests, 3 young boys, and a fishing trip? It's a good one.

How about the priest and a rabbi sitting at the playground bench when a young boy walks by?

Anyways, now that we are good friends any chance of a free pass into heaven, you know, just in case? At least give me some lottery numbers if you are legit.

Oh, I was wondering...The Wizard sold his sole for like a dollar, is he totally F'd?

Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



Wherein I investigated this question for several religions and Christian denominations:

https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/dice-and-divity

That's pretty long, so I don't really have anything to add in-thread absent directed questions.
link to original post



I'll give a quick summary, though I would appreciate a read as I went very in-depth and made several phone calls to various religious leaders in addition to researching more than a dozen websites.

Christianity: Depends on the denomination (See Below)

Catholics: Gambling can lead to sins, such as greed, but generally won't. It can also lead to a failure to provide for oneself or others. Institutional and Commercial Gambling, generally, are also not sinful.

Mormons: Officially, gambling is not a sin, but is, rather, a "Minor Transgression." However, many Mormon religious leaders would advise against gambling as it is not behaving in a, "God-like," way and can also lead to actual sins. To operate, or work for, a Commercial/Institutional gambling enterprise would almost certainly be sinful, in most contexts.

Methodists: Methodists are mostly concerned with the greater negative social aspects that can come as a result of gambling. They believe Institutional, Commercial, and especially, state-sponsored gambling should be outlawed. Working for a Commercial Gambling enterprise could be sinful and owning one definitely is. Individuals gambling may or may not be sinful depending on, "What is in the person's heart."

Baptists: Baptists are opposed to Commercial and state-sponsored gambling. Professional gamblers would always be sinning by way of gaining through labor that does not produce anything socially good. Individuals may or may not be sinning depending on sub-denomination---the American Baptist Churches would say that gambling is not always a sin, but could lead to sin; the Southern Baptist Churches would say gambling is always a sin.*

*There are other Baptist Church groups and some individual churches are totally independent, so it could vary otherwise.

Protestants/Presbyterian/Lutherans: In general, these types of churches would flatly declare that gambling is a sin. Greek Orthodox, also.

Jehovah Witnesses: Not a sin, per se, but could lead to sin and could also result in excommunication from the church.

Islam: Definitely a sin. Observing someone else gambling is a sin. Using instruments of gambling (ex. cards, dice, dominoes) is a sin. Gambling is unambiguously a sin on the same level as drinking with exception ONLY to horse racing and archery---and only then if one is a participant betting against another participant. Gambling and drinking are also the only sins that Allah will not forgive during Ramadan.

Judaism: Professional/Commercial/Institutional gambling would always be sinful. Individual gambling could lead to sin, but whether or not gambling is, in and of itself, a sin would depend on the Rabbi you ask or might depend on what the individual thinks. Like Christianity, there is some disagreement on this question.

Hinduism: Hard to say whether it can become a sin, though cheating at gambling is ALWAYS a sin as is taking too high of a house edge. Beyond that, they have a holiday in which gambling is specifically condoned. I'd highly recommend reading the article for more information as this is an ineffective summary of a summary that barely touches the history of gambling (a fascinating and entertaining one) in this religion.

Buddhism: Not a sin, but some worry that winning at gambling might, 'Spend,' too much, 'Positive Karma.'
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
lilredrooster
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February 16th, 2023 at 12:58:59 PM permalink
_____________


the casting of 𝑳𝑶𝑻𝑺 is mentioned 70 times in the Old Testament and 7 times in the New Testament

the casting of 𝑳𝑶𝑻𝑺 occurs most often in connection with the division of land under Joshua, a procedure that God instructed the Israelites on several times in the Book of Numbers

the Bible is the historical reference for 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗩𝗘𝗥𝗬 𝗙𝗜𝗥𝗦𝗧 𝗟𝗢𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗜𝗘𝗦 - although obviously there is not great similarity to modern day lotteries - still, it is similar enough to be of significant importance


it is believed by most scholars that when they cast lots in the Bible they used some type of dice, sticks or stones to help make decisions - it is most often compared to our modern day version of flipping coins or drawing names from a hat - casting lots was allowed and even instructed by God as a way to divide land



https://www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html


.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Feb 16, 2023
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February 16th, 2023 at 2:17:13 PM permalink
What is the view of Zoroastrians towards gambling?

There are only a small number of people in the world that identify with the Zoroastrian religion, say about 100,000, but I know one of them (he is an immigrant from Iran, I think) Just curious.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Feb 16, 2023
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February 16th, 2023 at 2:31:04 PM permalink
Confuciansim?
Taoism?
Baháʼí Faith?
Japanese Shinto?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
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February 16th, 2023 at 2:39:34 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

What is the view of Zoroastrians towards gambling?

There are only a small number of people in the world that identify with the Zoroastrian religion, say about 100,000, but I know one of them (he is an immigrant from India.) Just curious.
link to original post



I had neighbors in NY that were from some obscure ?stan and were very devote Baha'i. The way they explained it was all religions are one, and Zoroastrian was Jesus was Moses who was Buddha was Mohamad and messengers come and go but the truth is constant. The implication I got from the son was that by the time a religion becomes the majority of the people, it has been so severely compromised that a new one is needed. The son always had good hash and loved listening to my record collection so we spent many an afternoon listening to music, discussing how to save the world and John Candy's place in comedy history. He put him much higher than I did.
I had never heard of Zoraster before he brought him up, and still know very little. His son is a central figure in a Gore Vidal book
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
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February 17th, 2023 at 12:40:12 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf


Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



I was sort of halfway partially committed to going to a Seminary before I ultimately gave that up and tried to become a pilot. I occasionally still read and study religious texts and debate interpretations of various passages with people all over the world and of differing faiths and belief systems.

The general consensus I have found is that the act of gambling itself is not a sin. It is considered an expression or manifestation of a particular sin, that being the sin of Greed in the Catholic/Christian religions.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
AitchTheLetter
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February 17th, 2023 at 12:42:10 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


I'll give a quick summary, though I would appreciate a read as I went very in-depth and made several phone calls to various religious leaders in addition to researching more than a dozen websites.
link to original post



This is pretty much exactly what I have discovered through out my many debates and discussions throughout the years.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
billryan
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February 17th, 2023 at 1:56:05 PM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf


Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



I was sort of halfway partially committed to going to a Seminary before I ultimately gave that up and tried to become a pilot. I occasionally still read and study religious texts and debate interpretations of various passages with people all over the world and of differing faiths and belief systems.

The general consensus I have found is that the act of gambling itself is not a sin. It is considered an expression or manifestation of a particular sin, that being the sin of Greed in the Catholic/Christian religions.
link to original post



Not in the Catholic faith. Gambling is considered entertainment. Problem gambling is a different issue.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AitchTheLetter
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February 17th, 2023 at 2:43:43 PM permalink
There was a priest at a local church who was busted and sent to a monastery for about 5 years to repent after it came out he went to Vegas and used some of the communal offerings to the church to gamble. I understand that the clergy are held to higher standards though
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February 17th, 2023 at 2:44:05 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

_____________


the casting of 𝑳𝑶𝑻𝑺 is mentioned 70 times in the Old Testament and 7 times in the New Testament

the casting of 𝑳𝑶𝑻𝑺 occurs most often in connection with the division of land under Joshua, a procedure that God instructed the Israelites on several times in the Book of Numbers

the Bible is the historical reference for 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗩𝗘𝗥𝗬 𝗙𝗜𝗥𝗦𝗧 𝗟𝗢𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗜𝗘𝗦 - although obviously there is not great similarity to modern day lotteries - still, it is similar enough to be of significant importance


it is believed by most scholars that when they cast lots in the Bible they used some type of dice, sticks or stones to help make decisions - it is most often compared to our modern day version of flipping coins or drawing names from a hat - casting lots was allowed and even instructed by God as a way to divide land



https://www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html


.
link to original post

Casting lots/drawing straws, flipping coins, etc as a way to divide something isn't the same as gambling. It's a supposedly fair random way to make a decision.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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February 17th, 2023 at 3:05:23 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf


Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



I was sort of halfway partially committed to going to a Seminary before I ultimately gave that up and tried to become a pilot. I occasionally still read and study religious texts and debate interpretations of various passages with people all over the world and of differing faiths and belief systems.

The general consensus I have found is that the act of gambling itself is not a sin. It is considered an expression or manifestation of a particular sin, that being the sin of Greed in the Catholic/Christian religions.
link to original post



Not in the Catholic faith. Gambling is considered entertainment. Problem gambling is a different issue.
link to original post

Entertainment, why do people need entertainment? Dedicating your life to God/Jesus, family, and the church should be entertaining enough. Extra money should never be used for frivolous things. That extra time you have to gamble should be spent serving the lord. Like it or not... It's a sin for a true Christian/man of god to gamble or do anything ungodly.

Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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February 17th, 2023 at 3:28:40 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf


Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
link to original post



I can totally see Jesus betting the ponies.

God, on the other hand, I can see being down to gamble on anything and everything.
GenoDRPh
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February 17th, 2023 at 6:28:18 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf


Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



I was sort of halfway partially committed to going to a Seminary before I ultimately gave that up and tried to become a pilot. I occasionally still read and study religious texts and debate interpretations of various passages with people all over the world and of differing faiths and belief systems.

The general consensus I have found is that the act of gambling itself is not a sin. It is considered an expression or manifestation of a particular sin, that being the sin of Greed in the Catholic/Christian religions.
link to original post



Not in the Catholic faith. Gambling is considered entertainment. Problem gambling is a different issue.
link to original post

Entertainment, why do people need entertainment? Dedicating your life to God/Jesus, family, and the church should be entertaining enough. Extra money should never be used for frivolous things. That extra time you have to gamble should be spent serving the lord. Like it or not... It's a sin for a true Christian/man of god to gamble or do anything ungodly.

Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
link to original post



If you don't believe in God and religion, why do you then opine on such topics?
AitchTheLetter
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February 17th, 2023 at 6:32:52 PM permalink
Because belief/participation in a religion is not a requirement for discussing/debating said religion outside of very specific exclusive circles of theological debate.
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February 17th, 2023 at 7:46:42 PM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

Because belief/participation in a religion is not a requirement for discussing/debating said religion outside of very specific exclusive circles of theological debate.
link to original post



It is for discussing/debating intelligently, and for not to be insulting to believers.
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February 17th, 2023 at 9:35:44 PM permalink
According to Einstein, quantum physics is equivalent to God throwing dice.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
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February 17th, 2023 at 9:51:30 PM permalink
It’s just a matter of semantics. For instance, there are “interest-free” mortgages that meet Islamic requirements of not paying interest. Yeah right…of course you’re paying interest but it’s just arranged and labeled in a way that could pass a very basic test

The way to get around the gambling thing would be to charge an hourly fee to play at a casino but the games themselves carry no house edge. My priest says that’s just entertainment, not gambling. This is actually what I’ve been preaching for years, except that the entertainment fee is charged as house edge at my casino. Best of all, the squares subsidize the sharps’ fees via their place, hardway and horn bets
It’s all about making that GTA
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February 18th, 2023 at 3:07:44 AM permalink
Quote: GenoDRPh

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: billryan

Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: billryan

Quote: AxelWolf


Is gambling a sin? Dumb question I know... of course, it is.
link to original post



What religion says gambling is a sin? Not the Catholic, and not the bible.
link to original post



I was sort of halfway partially committed to going to a Seminary before I ultimately gave that up and tried to become a pilot. I occasionally still read and study religious texts and debate interpretations of various passages with people all over the world and of differing faiths and belief systems.

The general consensus I have found is that the act of gambling itself is not a sin. It is considered an expression or manifestation of a particular sin, that being the sin of Greed in the Catholic/Christian religions.
link to original post



Not in the Catholic faith. Gambling is considered entertainment. Problem gambling is a different issue.
link to original post

Entertainment, why do people need entertainment? Dedicating your life to God/Jesus, family, and the church should be entertaining enough. Extra money should never be used for frivolous things. That extra time you have to gamble should be spent serving the lord. Like it or not... It's a sin for a true Christian/man of god to gamble or do anything ungodly.

Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
link to original post



If you don't believe in God and religion, why do you then opine on such topics?
link to original post

Many people who don't believe in God, such as The Wizard(?) have discussed this topic here. That's what people do, they discuss and debate things they do or don't believe in( BigFoot, Ghosts, roulette systems, etc). It's probably a sin to have arguments about such things or even participate on this forum unless it's done for godly reasons.

Since there's a good chance gambling is a sin, those claiming it not to be a sin could be
bearing false witness, and that's a sin.

My understanding of Revelations is that only a limited number of people will enter the kingdom of heaven. I believe there are people who do everything possible to serve God. IF God/heaven is actually legitimate... those are the people who will make it to heaven, not those people who are engaging in gambling or telling others it's not a sin.

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
lilredrooster
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February 18th, 2023 at 4:41:06 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: lilredrooster

_____________


the casting of 𝑳𝑶𝑻𝑺 is mentioned 70 times in the Old Testament and 7 times in the New Testament

the casting of 𝑳𝑶𝑻𝑺 occurs most often in connection with the division of land under Joshua, a procedure that God instructed the Israelites on several times in the Book of Numbers

the Bible is the historical reference for 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗩𝗘𝗥𝗬 𝗙𝗜𝗥𝗦𝗧 𝗟𝗢𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗜𝗘𝗦 - although obviously there is not great similarity to modern day lotteries - still, it is similar enough to be of significant importance


it is believed by most scholars that when they cast lots in the Bible they used some type of dice, sticks or stones to help make decisions - it is most often compared to our modern day version of flipping coins or drawing names from a hat - casting lots was allowed and even instructed by God as a way to divide land



https://www.gotquestions.org/casting-lots.html


.
link to original post

Casting lots/drawing straws, flipping coins, etc as a way to divide something isn't the same as gambling. It's a supposedly fair random way to make a decision.
link to original post




you are incorrect

there was significant risk involved

those who participated could have ended up with a great piece of land or a lousy piece of land

they most likely had to pay to participate - probably paid with livestock - I doubt they would have been able to obtain land for free

every example of casting lots in the Bible involves risk which is central to gambling - somebody would gain - somebody would lose - the fact that the gain or loss didn't always involve currency is not crucial to the comparison

if a person takes out a 2nd mortgage to buy a piece of land in the sticks, not intending to use it, hoping that there will be great development and that it will double in value with 2 or 3 years - in my mind that person is gambling - it doesn't matter that he's not at a casino or a casino website



𝗶𝘁'𝘀 𝗻𝗼 𝗮𝗰𝗰𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗱 𝗟𝗢𝗧𝗦 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗽𝗵𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝗻𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗱 𝗟𝗢𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗬


.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Feb 18, 2023
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Mission146
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February 18th, 2023 at 6:38:53 AM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: Mission146


I'll give a quick summary, though I would appreciate a read as I went very in-depth and made several phone calls to various religious leaders in addition to researching more than a dozen websites.
link to original post



This is pretty much exactly what I have discovered through out my many debates and discussions throughout the years.
link to original post



Thank you for saying so! I spent a good deal of time on that one.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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February 18th, 2023 at 6:46:53 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Entertainment, why do people need entertainment? Dedicating your life to God/Jesus, family, and the church should be entertaining enough. Extra money should never be used for frivolous things. That extra time you have to gamble should be spent serving the lord. Like it or not... It's a sin for a true Christian/man of god to gamble or do anything ungodly.

Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
link to original post



There are VERY few denominations/sects that take a view of things that is that strict. As I pointed out on the WoO page, many Christian denominations simply do not consider the act of gambling, in and of itself, as sinful. All of them acknowledge that it can lead to sin.

The strictest religion on gambling is Islam, with exception to those two forms of gambling that are specifically permitted. Evidently, gambling is not even a forgivable sin in that religion, but no other religion takes a view even close to that. Virtually all Christian religions would suggest that you can repent of your gambling if you realize that it had gotten to a sinful point, (or was a sin in the first place, depending on denomination) of course, you can repent anything if you're genuinely sorry.

The only church I read that would directly sanction a person is the Jehovah Witnesses, who may excommunicate a gambler from the church, despite them saying that gambling, in and of itself, is not necessarily a sin.

Anyway, your last sentence kind of reflects the Mormon attitude towards it, more closely than anything. That religion considers gambling for entertainment a, "Minor Transgression," which isn't quite a sin, but would encourage people not to gamble on the grounds that it is not a godlike activity.

Most Christian religions would not hold people to such a high standard of moral behavior. For one thing, they contemplate their opinion that all people were born into sin, so that informs that people aren't going to be perfectly godlike at all times. Secondly, free will. Third, most Christian denominations don't necessarily require a level of devotion to the church that would be akin to being clergy---so gambling for entertainment (as opposed to a desire for money) would be no different than any other recreational activity, from their perspective, with the caveat that it could obviously lead to sin---especially so in excess.

Granted, the activity could still be considered frivolous, but The Bible (in general terms) has no provisions against occasional frivolity.

Another thing to remember about Christian religions (most, anyway) is that at the end of the day you're accountable only to the law of the land and to God. I think it's for that reason that some denominations hesitate to flatly describe something like gambling as, "Sinful," absent The Bible directly stating that God declares it to be so, which it doesn't.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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February 18th, 2023 at 6:53:30 AM permalink
Quote: GenoDRPh



If you don't believe in God and religion, why do you then opine on such topics?
link to original post



I don't believe Star Wars is real, but there are some things I think Anakin should have done differently.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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February 18th, 2023 at 7:02:27 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Quote: AxelWolf


Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
link to original post



I can totally see Jesus betting the ponies.

God, on the other hand, I can see being down to gamble on anything and everything.
link to original post



This is actually an interesting statement, but the closest I think we ever see God to coming to a wager would be in the Book of Job:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Job-Chapter-1/

There are some who contest that it was a wager, but strictly speaking, I don't think it was a wager. Satan (which, in context, might just mean, 'adversary') challenged God that Job only held God in such high-esteem because God had taken great care of him and Job was very prosperous.

With that, God answered the challenge by saying that, 'Satan,' could take everything from Job that he has...and basically do what he will with his family and his stuff...but he may not harm Job directly; after all of this, God claimed, Job would still be faithful.

Is that a bet?

I don't think so, because there wasn't actually risk and consideration. It was a simple matter of God saying the equivalent of, "No, you're wrong. If A, not B, even though you're claiming if A, then B."

And, God was right. I guess consider the source, but even then, omniscience has its advantages.

Speaking of omniscience, in theory, God would gain no thrill from betting on anything as he already knows the result ahead of time.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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February 18th, 2023 at 7:05:05 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

It’s just a matter of semantics. For instance, there are “interest-free” mortgages that meet Islamic requirements of not paying interest. Yeah right…of course you’re paying interest but it’s just arranged and labeled in a way that could pass a very basic test

The way to get around the gambling thing would be to charge an hourly fee to play at a casino but the games themselves carry no house edge. My priest says that’s just entertainment, not gambling. This is actually what I’ve been preaching for years, except that the entertainment fee is charged as house edge at my casino. Best of all, the squares subsidize the sharps’ fees via their place, hardway and horn bets
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That would not work in Islam as using the instruments of gambling for any reason, even non-gambling reasons, is also sinful.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
gordonm888
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February 18th, 2023 at 7:16:30 AM permalink
I think the most relevant disqualifier is not whether you are a non-believer, but whether you are a non-believer who doesn't have any friends or family who do believe, i.e., if you are unfamiliar with people who attend church, synagogue, mosque, etc and don't know how they think about the role of their religion in their secular life.

Statements like this (below) leave me uncomfortable with the writer's credentials to be an analyst of religious issues:

Quote: AxelWolf

It's probably a sin to have arguments about such things or even participate on this forum unless it's done for godly reasons.



I actually respect AxelWolf very much, but just saying that it's possible that this particular definition of sin may not have been drawn from deep funds of knowledge nor subjected to critical review by top scholars in theology.*

* I am just a flawed human being who doesn't believe its a sin to 'even participate in this forum unless it's done for godly reasons.' I am trying to be polite, after gasping "WTF?" and putting my head in my hands.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Feb 18, 2023
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
billryan
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February 18th, 2023 at 8:04:55 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: AxelWolf


Again, I don't believe in God and religion, but in those who do, ask yourself if you believe Jesus or God would engage in gambling in casinos or whatever. If the answer is no they probably wouldn't. then you have your answer.
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I can totally see Jesus betting the ponies.

God, on the other hand, I can see being down to gamble on anything and everything.
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This is actually an interesting statement, but the closest I think we ever see God to coming to a wager would be in the Book of Job:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Job-Chapter-1/

There are some who contest that it was a wager, but strictly speaking, I don't think it was a wager. Satan (which, in context, might just mean, 'adversary') challenged God that Job only held God in such high-esteem because God had taken great care of him and Job was very prosperous.

With that, God answered the challenge by saying that, 'Satan,' could take everything from Job that he has...and basically do what he will with his family and his stuff...but he may not harm Job directly; after all of this, God claimed, Job would still be faithful.

Is that a bet?

I don't think so, because there wasn't actually risk and consideration. It was a simple matter of God saying the equivalent of, "No, you're wrong. If A, not B, even though you're claiming if A, then B."

And, God was right. I guess consider the source, but even then, omniscience has its advantages.

Speaking of omniscience, in theory, God would gain no thrill from betting on anything as he already knows the result ahead of time.
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The story of Job is just plain strange.
I, for one, can't imagine God and Satan sitting around, shooting the shit when Satan casually brings up Job. It's as if two Vermont farmers were leaning over their fence discussing their prize cow, or the Mortimer Brothers were making their usual bet on something stupid.
There are a handful of chapters that cause me to shake my head at their inclusion, especially when so many chapters that were excluded are now easily available.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
lilredrooster
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February 18th, 2023 at 9:00:14 AM permalink
______________


the seven Deadly sins also called Capital sins or Cardinal sins in Roman Catholic Theology are:


vainglory or pride

greed or covetousness

lust or inordinate or illicit sexual desire

envy

gluttony which is usually understood to include drunkenness

wrath or anger

sloth or laziness




gambling is not one of them



.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
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