klondike
klondike
Joined: Mar 12, 2017
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March 12th, 2017 at 11:32:25 PM permalink
For money of course.

I know of 2 places, 5dimes and 3dice. Are there others?

Digging up an old thread, it seems "Cryptologic, Grand Virtual, Kismet / Cantor Gaming, and 3Dice all provide the software" yet I can't find any of their casinos that have it. A few that I found googling all seem to be defunct (365betbit, Red Lounge, etc.)

I found bitsolitaire where you can play with bitcoins but they seem to have been down for a while now (and also a scam according to a thread at bitcointalk)

I'm also curious if casinos would tolerate someone consistently winning at the game? Solitaire has to be one of the few (if not the only game) where it's possible to have an edge over the house
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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March 12th, 2017 at 11:49:26 PM permalink
Quote: klondike

For money of course.

I know of 2 places, 5dimes and 3dice. Are there others?

Digging up an old thread, it seems "Cryptologic, Grand Virtual, Kismet / Cantor Gaming, and 3Dice all provide the software" yet I can't find any of their casinos that have it. A few that I found googling all seem to be defunct (365betbit, Red Lounge, etc.)

I found bitsolitaire where you can play with bitcoins but they seem to have been down for a while now (and also a scam according to a thread at bitcointalk)

I'm also curious if casinos would tolerate someone consistently winning at the game? Solitaire has to be one of the few (if not the only game) where it's possible to have an edge over the house

I have no clue if you have an edge over the house or not. I. Would bet no. Can you show the math and explain why you have an edge?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
bobbartop
bobbartop
Joined: Mar 15, 2016
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March 13th, 2017 at 1:24:53 AM permalink
Quote: klondike

For money of course.

I know of 2 places, 5dimes and 3dice. Are there others?

Digging up an old thread, it seems "Cryptologic, Grand Virtual, Kismet / Cantor Gaming, and 3Dice all provide the software" yet I can't find any of their casinos that have it. A few that I found googling all seem to be defunct (365betbit, Red Lounge, etc.)

I found bitsolitaire where you can play with bitcoins but they seem to have been down for a while now (and also a scam according to a thread at bitcointalk)

I'm also curious if casinos would tolerate someone consistently winning at the game? Solitaire has to be one of the few (if not the only game) where it's possible to have an edge over the house




I used to play at Intercasino, which was Cryptologic software. But that was ten years ago before they pulled out of the United States. That was a very good casino.
Don't believe anything until it is officially denied.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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March 13th, 2017 at 3:04:22 AM permalink
No one has been able to break down the math for klondike or, I believe, the casino version.

Quote: per wikipedia article

the theoretical odds of winning a standard game of ... Klondike are currently not known exactly. The inability of theoreticians to precisely calculate these odds has been referred to by mathematician Persi Diaconis as "one of the embarrassments of applied probability"



As for a player possibly having an edge, first I've heard of it

There is an old thread where Wizard and others weigh in that's interesting

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/3839-solitaire-klondike-math-whizzes-get-cracking/
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
GWAE
GWAE
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March 13th, 2017 at 5:07:29 AM permalink
Worldwinner has all kinds of games for cash.

BEWARE
About 10 years ago I deposited $100 and played for a few months. Eventually I went busto. Next Jam in received a 1099 for $2400. They added up each win and put that on a 1099 even though my end result was minus 100.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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March 13th, 2017 at 6:33:45 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Worldwinner has all kinds of games for cash.

BEWARE
About 10 years ago I deposited $100 and played for a few months. Eventually I went busto. Next Jam in received a 1099 for $2400. They added up each win and put that on a 1099 even though my end result was minus 100.



they report stuff to the IRS? foreign-owned online sites do this? [I am assuming this is not a US outfit]
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
GWAE
GWAE
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
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March 13th, 2017 at 6:48:48 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

they report stuff to the IRS? foreign-owned online sites do this? [I am assuming this is not a US outfit]



It is run by gsn.
klondike
klondike
Joined: Mar 12, 2017
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March 13th, 2017 at 12:38:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I have no clue if you have an edge over the house or not. I. Would bet no. Can you show the math and explain why you have an edge?



Yes, as odiousgambit referred to, it's probably extremely difficult if not impossible to show the math behind it. I can only point to my personal experience from playing thousands and thousands of games.

BUT, a few things I can elaborate on.

There are basically 2 versions that I have invested a lot of time playing.

Normal (klondike) where it's 3 cards at a time and you get to cycle through the pile 3 times. At 5d, this is the game that I started out playing. Their max bet was $55 and you get $5 per card to the foundation. So break even point is 11 cards per game. I tracked every game I played back then and averaged a little over 12 cards to the foundation. So net profit about $5 per game. I know that doesn't sound like much but keep in mind that games do not take that long to play. In fact, there are some games where you don't even get to make a single move and you just cycle through the deck 3 times and fold. Those games probably take 5 minutes at most. Yes, the games where lot of moves are possible take a lot of time to calculate all the different possibilities and can take upwards of 20-30 minutes, but those are actually rare. Completing a game under these rules are relatively difficult, hence the high payout. I think I won a little over 13% of all games played.

Now the normal version, I don't really like. It truly does test your "patience" (I guess that's why they call it that). You can go hours and hours without winning a game then all of a sudden you'll win 2 games in a row and like 4 out of 7 or something. When things are running bad, that's when you're most likely to make mental errors that can cost you. So basically it's higher variance.

The other version that 5d carries is called unlimited solitaire (there's actually a 3rd version but that's same as normal version rules with a different payout structure). Unlimited is still 3 cards at a time but you get to cycle through the pile an unlimited number of times. This is the version I fell in love with and basically stopped playing the normal version because of it. Back when they rolled it out, they put out an absolutely ludicrous price of $85 (maybe even lower at first) per game with same payout of $5 per card to the foundation. Even disregarding the money won for cards to the foundation in lost games, you would only need to win a little over 32% of all games to turn a little profit. After having played thousands of these games, I win a little over 55% of all games under these rules. Needless to say, $85 per game was a ridiculous price even for casual players and that is why they increased it to $95, then $105, then $115, then $125 to $135 where it's at today. At $135 you still only need 25 cards to the foundation per game to break even which is still achievable.

5d recently raised their price on the normal version to $75 per game. So you would need to average 15 cards per game which probably makes it very difficult to beat. But all the screenshots of the game from the other places have shown it at $52 a game which is even less than 5d's original price of $55. $52 is also what 3dice charges and I would be there now but they are not taking new US customers at this time :(

The unlimited version is the one I really love. It's much more complex than the normal version. Games do take longer but my profit margin is much higher too. You are afforded the luxury of cycling through the entire pile without doing anything so you can see where every card is and map out your moves based on what's showing and what's not showing. I see every game as a puzzle and though not every puzzle has a solution, I really enjoy trying to solve it, perhaps that's why I've gotten so good at it lol.

If anyone knows where I can play the unlimited version, I would be forever in their debt! Even the normal version would be fine. I just do wonder if they allow players to consistently win at it.
klondike
klondike
Joined: Mar 12, 2017
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March 13th, 2017 at 12:41:10 PM permalink
Quote: bobbartop

I used to play at Intercasino, which was Cryptologic software. But that was ten years ago before they pulled out of the United States. That was a very good casino.



Thank you. Yes, I read that Cryptologic no longer services the USA. Still I can't even find a Cryptologic casino that still carries solitaire. And I've looked at a lot of them.
klondike
klondike
Joined: Mar 12, 2017
  • Threads: 1
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March 13th, 2017 at 12:42:42 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Worldwinner has all kinds of games for cash.

BEWARE
About 10 years ago I deposited $100 and played for a few months. Eventually I went busto. Next Jam in received a 1099 for $2400. They added up each win and put that on a 1099 even though my end result was minus 100.



Yeah I saw them too. Thanks for the info regarding that though. Definitely looking for something offshore.

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