Fixed Video Poker?

I've noticed poker machines acting funny, is this plausible?

1. All machines are connected centrally through technology.
2. The machines seem to connect every 25-50 games suggesting an update of
some kind.
3. Too many times at the end of my trips I get lucky and get a few
jackpots when the previous 2-3 days have been non existent.
4. Games like Ultimate X tipped me off to believe the hands are staged
misleading the player to apply a standard strategy that doesn't work. Too
many inside straights are made statistically.

These observations led me to consider how the poker machines could be
rigged. I just wanted to see if I could figure out a way for my own piece
of mind. What's even more interesting is card games are even exposed to
this method since the dealing machines know the cards and it's just easy
for technology to generate doubt.

1. If the hands are randomized centrally and broken into blocks of 25-50
hands, a company could easily predetermine which blocks a machine will
execute. If that were known then to improve cash flow and control payoffs
all that would need to be done is place the blocks the way you want it to
come out avoiding blocks that payoff. Way too easy to do technically.

2. I am sure the law says it has to be randomized however you can easily
randomize around the law this way. The fact is having the knowledge is the
key.

3. Statistically speaking the odds are set, however the introduction of
technology changes everything and although the gaming board will claim they
check the chips, I'm sure the chips are fine it's just too easy to bypass.

4. If that step were taken, the next step would be to search randomized
hands to find those where hands where royal flushes are made by keeping 1
card. This suggests presenting a hand that no one would ever win because
it goes against poker rules. I'm sure there are laws that state the house
keeps "missed" or mistake jackpots and this approach would come in real
handy.

If they are bingo machines then yes ...... Otherwise .....not rigged

0/10 on the troll attempt

O/U: 4 days @ 8pm, Tuesday, March 15th

I'm going to take your post seriously, but not seriously enough to offer a lengthy response without more information.

Quote: Mactxdc

I've noticed poker machines acting funny, is this plausible?

1. All machines are connected centrally through technology.
2. The machines seem to connect every 25-50 games suggesting an update of
some kind.
3. Too many times at the end of my trips I get lucky and get a few
jackpots when the previous 2-3 days have been non existent.
4. Games like Ultimate X tipped me off to believe the hands are staged
misleading the player to apply a standard strategy that doesn't work. Too
many inside straights are made statistically.

1.) No, just Class II machines.

2.) What does this sentence mean?

3.) Would you rather be unlucky the whole time?

4.) I am assuming that you have specific numbers as relates the casino at which you were playing, the number of inside straight opportunities you were dealt as compared to hands played, the number of inside straights you hit as compared to those that you had an opportunity to hit AND preferably the specific unit numbers for these machines? If not, you're guessing.

Quote:

These observations led me to consider how the poker machines could be
rigged. I just wanted to see if I could figure out a way for my own piece
of mind. What's even more interesting is card games are even exposed to
this method since the dealing machines know the cards and it's just easy
for technology to generate doubt.

You should not do anything with a PIECE of your mind, it could be very painful. For your peace of mind, please see number four on the above list and tell me whether or not you have that information. Dates and times will be important, as well, since you seem to think that these things can be changed on a day-to-day basis.

Quote:

1. If the hands are randomized centrally and broken into blocks of 25-50
hands, a company could easily predetermine which blocks a machine will
execute. If that were known then to improve cash flow and control payoffs
all that would need to be done is place the blocks the way you want it to
come out avoiding blocks that payoff. Way too easy to do technically.

And, it would be illegal. It would no longer be random, while true that the initial deals would be random, the specific set of twenty to twenty-five hands that a player receives would not be random.

Quote:

2. I am sure the law says it has to be randomized however you can easily
randomize around the law this way. The fact is having the knowledge is the
key.

No, you can't.

Quote:

3. Statistically speaking the odds are set, however the introduction of
technology changes everything and although the gaming board will claim they
check the chips, I'm sure the chips are fine it's just too easy to bypass.

You're a Video Poker machine manufacturer, you are licensed to do same in the State of Nevada. You have thousands of machines in the State of Nevada. If you get caught doing something like what you are proposing ONCE you are likely history in the State of Nevada. Is that really a wise thing to do, or would you just go ahead and let the House Edge (combined with player mistakes) do its thing?

Quote:

4. If that step were taken, the next step would be to search randomized
hands to find those where hands where royal flushes are made by keeping 1
card. This suggests presenting a hand that no one would ever win because
it goes against poker rules. I'm sure there are laws that state the house
keeps "missed" or mistake jackpots and this approach would come in real
handy.

No, just no.

Let's talk about those inside straights if you have the data. We can start there.

I read a lot of if's....then more if's......bad starting point, IMO.


If you have data, present it.

Step one, where are these machines?

Thank you all for your responses, yes just guessing and speculating and that is why it is posed as a question of whether plausible or not. I will admit that I am not nearly as smart and all of you on the inner workings of these machines however nobody ever believed Bernie Madoff was a fraud or the "God" particle existed either. So go easy, you all spend way more time and have way more knowledge.

No I have gone to no effort together any information on machines or time. I am in the business of considering ever possibility with the focus on the "impossible", it's just logical to consider the dark side and disprove it.

As I began to consider this theory I felt you were the experts, so back to original question "why couldn't this be the case?"

One last thing, the sentence 2 is referring to a clear and distinct pattern of machine hesitation every 25-50 hands where when hitting deal the machine hesitates as though it were communicating and loading. This is not random and is very specific.

Trolling? Not sure what I would troll for, in any case it's a legitimate question.

If it's simple to disprove and it may be, then what consists in the way of technology to prevent it from happening?

Thanks for the response to this point.

Quote: MathExtremist

Step one, where are these machines?

Yes, again, where are these machines?

Quote: Mission146

I'm going to take your post seriously, but not seriously enough to offer a lengthy response without more information..

This wasn't lengthy?

The hesitation / reloading thing -- I've been told, is because the machine is doing a memory backup.

Quote: Boz

This wasn't lengthy?

Not for Mission it wasn't, lol!

The burden of proof is on the accuser to show the machines are cheating. This should be done with numbers and not adjectives.

As an example of how to make a case that a game is cheating, you may wish to consult my Internet casino blacklist.

Quote: MathExtremist

Step one, where are these machines?

I predict they are at Joe's Grind Joint. You have to walk down three flights, take a dumbwaiter, then say the magic password "Pro Wrestling" to get in the door

Quote: Johnzimbo

I predict they are at Joe's Grind Joint. You have to walk down three flights, take a dumbwaiter, then say the magic password "Pro Wrestling" to get in the door

What happens I incorrectly say the password is "Pro wresting is fixed and completely illegitimate."

Quote: Wizard

What happens I incorrectly say the password is "Pro wresting is fixed and completely illegitimate."

They immediately put you in the tightest headlock you've ever seen.

Quote: Wizard

What happens I incorrectly say the password is "Pro wresting is fixed and completely illegitimate."

See John Stossel!

You guys are hi-jacking!!

Yes - should be a 30 minute suspension for the wizard lol

Quote: Mactxdc

One last thing, the sentence 2 is referring to a clear and distinct pattern of machine hesitation every 25-50 hands where when hitting deal the machine hesitates as though it were communicating and loading. This is not random and is very specific.

Trolling? Not sure what I would troll for, in any case it's a legitimate question.

If it's simple to disprove and it may be, then what consists in the way of technology to prevent it from happening?

Thanks for the response to this point.

I have encountered machines that have a glitch that make them hesitate.

Usually they are older machines however I have seen it once on newer machines.

Is this machine an older coin dropper or A TITO machine?

Large Casino

Thanks Wizard, I wished I had never asked. There is no accusations, it was a simple question because I don't know and thought you would.

Sorry to inconvenience all of you, go back to your math.

Quote: Mactxdc

Thanks Wizard, I wished I had never asked. There is no accusations, it was a simple question because I don't know and thought you would.

Sorry to inconvenience all of you, go back to your math.

You only think it's a simple question. You might have learned otherwise, but not now.

Quote: The Internet

Don't feed the hand that bites you.

Quote: Mactxdc

Large Casino

The casino itself makes a difference. If it's class II slots/VP, your observations are much more likely to be axxurate. If they are class III , you are dealing with a very small sample size and probably some selective memory.

ZCore13

Mac,

Most everybody asked questions that are necessary to help answer your questions. There are over 300 gaming jurisdictions in the US alone, and each one has specific rules about what is and isn't allowed in VP software. So it's important to know where.

There are several hundred VP games out there from a dozen distributors and even more manufacturers. Some tendencies are known, some are not. So which games also matters.

Most importantly, there is a lot of variance in what's to be expected and within tolerance for each game in each jurisdiction. If there's something going on, it would have to be outside "normal" parameters to detect it. That requires specific data. Like, in a previous post, hitting an inside straight got mentioned. You want one of 4 cards out of the remaining 48, right? So at least 11 out of 12 cards will not fill the straight. Losing bet to hold in nearly every VP game's best strategy. (A simple example of a much more complex calculation.)

Finding out if a game is cheating you is no small thing, and it takes a lot of very specific data; thousands of hands at least, to provide even a small dataset to compare to expectation.

If all you want is validation of your hypothetical, sure; it's POSSIBLE there's something going on. There ya go. But if you want to prove something, you have to have a lot of data. And that's much more what this forum is for, not hypotheticals or untested claims.

Mac,

Most everybody asked questions that are necessary to help answer your questions. There are over 300 gaming jurisdictions in the US alone, and each one has specific rules about what is and isn't allowed in VP software. So it's important to know where.

There are several hundred VP games out there from a dozen distributors and even more manufacturers. Some tendencies are known, some are not. So which games also matters.

Most importantly, there is a lot of variance in what's to be expected and within tolerance for each game in each jurisdiction. If there's something going on, it would have to be outside "normal" parameters to detect it. That requires specific data. Like, in a previous post, hitting an inside straight got mentioned. You want one of 4 cards out of the remaining 48, right? So at least 11 out of 12 cards will not fill the straight. Losing bet to hold in nearly every VP game's best strategy. (A simple example of a much more complex calculation.)

Finding out if a game is cheating you is no small thing, and it takes a lot of very specific data; thousands of hands at least, to provide even a small dataset to compare to expectation.

If all you want is validation of your hypothetical, sure; it's POSSIBLE there's something going on. There ya go. But if you want to prove something, you have to have a lot of data. And that's much more what this forum is for, not hypotheticals or untested claims.

Quote: MathExtremist

Step one, where are these machines?

Since he talked about Ultimate X, it's a jurisdiction where games are not centrally determined like he claimed. Ultimate X cannot be class II/electronic bingo/virtual pull tabs, correct?

My wild guess is he is talking about Maryland. Laws there (like most states) say VP is from random and standard poker decks with 1/52 probability (non joker games) for each card. Casinos could be stupid and break the law though I suppose...

Quote: tringlomane

Since he talked about Ultimate X, it's a jurisdiction where games are not centrally determined like he claimed. Ultimate X cannot be class II/electronic bingo/virtual pull tabs, correct?

I don't see a reason why you couldn't have centrally determined UX. I doubt that there is any but it sure seems like it could be done.

Think he might have meant no class 2 ultimate ex

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Yes - should be a 30 minute suspension for the wizard lol

I'm sure you're joking, but I could argue I wasn't the one who brought up pro wrestling and was just making a joke.

Suspensions for hijacking are almost always reserved for those trying to inject a political opinion in a thread that has nothing to do with politics.

The house rules of DrawingDead's Sportsbook, Poker Room, Slot Parlor, Quick Lube, and Bikini Car Wash (franchise opportunities available) state: "When the OP has not been heard from for 72hrs the event is declared over, retroactive to time & date of last post."

Quote: DrawingDead

O/U: 4 days @ 8pm, Tuesday, March 15th

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