Tiltpoul
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June 8th, 2012 at 6:18:13 AM permalink
I normally reserve reports like these to my blog, but Hollywood Casino- Toledo (HCT) opened up last Monday to relatively less fanfare, since Horseshoe Cleveland was the first (and more prominent) and Scioto Downs covered the Central Ohio market pretty well. Scioto Downs is only slots and VP, so I'll get down there eventually, but I guess the crowds are still ridiculous. HCT is also close enough to the Michigan markets where gambling has been present for years.

On a whim, I decided to drive up last night and check it out. Toledo is about 2 hours from where I live, and the drive is surprisingly easy, despite it being highway most of the way. The casino is located RIGHT OFF I-75; I kid you not, it'snmaybe a 100 yards off the interstate. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Midwest casino that close before. My GPS doesn't recognize the place yet, so I was worried about getting there on the last leg of the route... just take exit 199 off I-75 and you truly can't miss it....

The parking garage is towards the back, and there are blocked roads that are a bit confusing at first going into the property. I think this is not a great idea, since it could lead to a backup on a main road, which in turn, could cause congestion on the interstate. At 11:30 pm on Thursday evening, this wasn't going to be an issue. There are two entrances, one from the parking garage and the other from valet towards the front.

If you haven't been to a Hollywood Casino, let me say the theme is nothing short of impressive, even by Vegas standards. There is a TON to look at, and walking around the casino will be a pleasure, with all the ads and colors and sights. If you come through the parking garage entrance, the huge wave screen will probably overwhelm you the first time you see it...

And that's part of the problem. Hollywood Casino uses a cookie-cutter model for all of its casinos, so if you've been in one of the updated ones (Lawrenceburg, the PA one, Joliet, and I assume KC), they are basically all the same. To me, I like walking around and discovering what makes a casino unique; here, I just look for which design elements they put where. I didn't see the big hanging balls (IF YOU'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT); otherwise, the wave screen, the gaudy red carpet, the large stone pillars... it's all there.

The layout reminds me a bit of a spread-out River City casino in St Louis. The middle has a bar area and a lounge that serves food called Scene (which is the first time I've seen that at a Hollywood). Both entrances will feature table games near there, though the valet entrance is an overflow pit. On both sides of the bar that separates the areas there are slot machines. The poker room is near the valet entrance. All VP is concentrated in an area near the poker room. Two Smoking areas (since Ohio is smoke-free) take you to an outside area that is still connected to the casino. The High Limit room is in the back corner, not too far from the combined cashier/player's club sign-ups. For now, they do have a separate sign up area, though it wasn't open when I got there before midnight. Food options are in the opposite back corner, all in a row, including the 24-hour grill (Take 2), Epic Buffet and Final Cut Steakhouse. Yep, it's a Hollywood Casino....

Table games offered include BJ*, Roulette (0,00), Craps (3-4-5x odds, Fire bet, forgot field, but assume it's double on 12), Mini-Baccarat on tall tables, Pai Gow Poker**, Ultimate Texas Hold Em***, Mississippi Stud, Let It Ride, Crazy 4, TCP w/ Progressive (40-30-6-3-1) and a Big 6 Wheel.

*BJ- I didn't play and forgot to ask specific rules... however, when I got there, the table wording looked like it was S17. Then I actually read it, and it says "Dealer must draw to 16 and soft 17 and stand on hard 17s" I think this is VERY deceptive; it might be how they word it up in MI, so I can't get too mad. I know AC does the same type of wording too.

**PGP- This is what I played that evening. However, I MUST post their bonus payout, since I think it is officially the STRANGEST paytable I've ever seen for Fortune.

7-card SF NJ- 5000:1, Envy $2500
RF + RM- 1000:1, Envy $500
7-card SF w/J- 500:1, Envy $250
5 Aces- 300:1, Envy $150
Royal- 110:1, Envy $55
Straight Flush- 45:1, Envy $25
Quads- 25:1 Envy $6
The rest is all standard 5,4,3,2 no two pair bonus.

Even though the dealer was new, she agreed that a 110:1 payout and 45:1 payout didn't make any sense. The Envy bonuses are a bit more generous than I've seen especially for the more frequent. I didn't see a max aggregate, but there was one on Crazy 4 so there has to be one for PGP.

***UTH- I like this game, but they put the crappy 20-7-6-5-3 paytable on the trips. If MGM still offers the nicer paytable (30-9-7-4-3), head up an hour north and risk your life for it...

Table minimums were high, but not insane like at Horseshoe ($15 for most games, including PGP, which to me is low). Also do not get the $500 chips unless you want to be scrutinized. The pit supervisor said it takes about 20 minutes to verify that amount on the cameras, so just ask for $100 chips, and you'll be okay.

I won't even mention Video Poker, because you'd be better off playing slots. I check for two games, BP and JoB. The BEST JoB I saw was 8-5 and that was at the $2 level. At .25, you get 6-5. No thanks! Poker room rake is 10% to $6 which is too high, but that's where Detroit has been for years, so I get that, I guess... It was mostly 1-2 with 200 max being played.

They are currently doing a match card level promotion, so I'm already a Celebrity (2nd tier) with them. I got my card after I played, since the line was ridiculous when I got there. I took my card to the pit, where Gary the supervisor gave me full credit for my 2 hours of play...

Which leads me to the service, which was surprisingly good! I say surprisingly, since Hollywood's are becoming notorious for awful service. Our main PGP dealer Amy was great, though she forgot to thank me for tipping. Her relief was excellent, fast and did thank me. He was also very knowledgeable so if you're on here, good work! The last dealer before I left was very slow and not sure exactly what she was doing. This is to be expected in a new casino. I laughed when other players were barking that they couldn't bank; do you think some of these dealers could handle that on TOP of everything else?? I don't think so...

In comparison to Horseshoe Cleveland, Horseshoe has MUCH better games all around. The layout of Hollywood is 1000x better though, as it's much more spacious and not crammed into an old department store. The parking is obviously better and the smoking areas were much better planned. Food options are also not an issue at Hollywood. Service right now is a draw between the two properties, but rest assured, Penn will screw that up after a while, so I'll give the slight edge to Horseshoe.

OVERALL, despite my spite towards Penn National, I have to say they did a decent job in Toledo. Time will tell if Toledo can truly support a full-scale casino after they are up and running all over in Ohio. My guess is that it will be a no, and when Penn makes it their own, the service will go downhill fast. That could be enough to send the border people up to Detroit again. Maybe.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
odiousgambit
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June 8th, 2012 at 10:32:42 AM permalink
I've got relatives in Toledo... Hmmm.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Ibeatyouraces
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:04:30 AM permalink
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Tiltpoul
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:07:13 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

9/5 JoB at $5 and higher with a few other vp games on the opposite side near the restrooms. Bj rules: H17, DOA, DAS, resplit to 4 hands including aces, no surrender. Same in high limit except S17.

MGM still has the good trips bet for UTH.



Thanks for clarifying the rules for BJ. I'm not sure why I forgot to ask, except about the H17/S17. I figured no surrender, but I'm surprised they allow RSA. Many Penn properties do not.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Ibeatyouraces
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:09:27 AM permalink
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Ibeatyouraces
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:15:19 AM permalink
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odiousgambit
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:28:56 AM permalink
*M*A*S*H* fans have to hit Tony Packo's btw
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
teddys
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June 8th, 2012 at 1:30:01 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

*M*A*S*H* fans have to hit Tony Packo's btw

Overrated. There are much better places to get a chili dog in Toledo. (Try Netty's).

Thanks for the report tp.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
odiousgambit
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June 8th, 2012 at 1:52:13 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Overrated. There are much better places to get a chili dog in Toledo. (Try Netty's).



Next time I'm there I'll have to do a comparison! Tough duty!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Mission146
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June 8th, 2012 at 3:28:32 PM permalink
Tiltpoul,

Thanks for the excellent breakdown!

I'm glad to hear that they had a Let It Ride game working at that time in the evening. I don't know if I would be compelled to make a special trip to Toledo from where I live, but if I ever happen to be up that way, it's certainly a place at which I would consider stopping. I tend to agree that those are fairly high Tbale Minimums, though, but maybe they'll be reduced a little bit in the early a.m. if things slow down there.

I'm really looking forward to having the opportunity to shooting over to Scioto Downs in Columbus and checking out the Slots action there...it's about half the distance.

Do you know what the maximum slot bet is Ohio, by chance? I haven't been to an Ohio casino as of yet. I'd certainly take a shot at a $50 or $100 machine for one pull if I was up by $500 or more, so that's why I am interested. The maximum pull in West Virginia is $5.00, which I'm pretty sure is a Legislated thing, so no opportunity to take, "The big shot," even if I am way ahead.

I know it's $100 at The Meadows in PA, but I've never been $500 or more ahead there yet.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Ibeatyouraces
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June 8th, 2012 at 4:00:08 PM permalink
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Tiltpoul
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June 8th, 2012 at 4:05:59 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Do you know what the maximum slot bet is Ohio, by chance? I haven't been to an Ohio casino as of yet. I'd certainly take a shot at a $50 or $100 machine for one pull if I was up by $500 or more, so that's why I am interested. The maximum pull in West Virginia is $5.00, which I'm pretty sure is a Legislated thing, so no opportunity to take, "The big shot," even if I am way ahead.



I didn't specifically look for any high denomination slots, but Ohio seems to be letting the casinos have a little more leeway than other states when they first allow gambling. In a way, they have to, because they are competing with four gaming states, each with varied laws. For example, Cleveland gamblers are used to PA and to a degree, WV gambling, so they'll expect higher limits with better games. Toledo goes against Michigan, where lower limits are more normal but the rules don't have to be quite as good.

Columbus will most likely model after Toledo, though that could be a mistake given the main competition goes to Wheeling WV. Cincinnati will nearly have to model the Indiana casinos to stay alive. This is more likely than Hollywood adapting, since as I mentioned, Hollywood is going cookie-cutter on the customers.

So to take the long way around your question, it will vary by casino, I think, but in general, Ohio casinos will most likely try to push the limits a bit.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Mission146
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June 8th, 2012 at 6:19:22 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I didn't specifically look for any high denomination slots, but Ohio seems to be letting the casinos have a little more leeway than other states when they first allow gambling. In a way, they have to, because they are competing with four gaming states, each with varied laws. For example, Cleveland gamblers are used to PA and to a degree, WV gambling, so they'll expect higher limits with better games. Toledo goes against Michigan, where lower limits are more normal but the rules don't have to be quite as good.

Columbus will most likely model after Toledo, though that could be a mistake given the main competition goes to Wheeling WV. Cincinnati will nearly have to model the Indiana casinos to stay alive. This is more likely than Hollywood adapting, since as I mentioned, Hollywood is going cookie-cutter on the customers.

So to take the long way around your question, it will vary by casino, I think, but in general, Ohio casinos will most likely try to push the limits a bit.



First of all, thank you to IBeatYourAces for that information.

I agree with you, and I strongly believe that West Virginia has some catching up to do. In fact, it has only been about a year, certainly less than two years, that you have even been able to insert a $50 or $100 bill into a slot machine. That may have just been Wheeling Island, though, but I'm fairly confident it was the entire State. They're going to have to get some lobbyists to work on getting the Legislature to loosen up on those slot denominations, I would say.

I think the Island may also hurt itself because it refrains from reducing the Table Minimums in the early a.m., when asked, most of the time even when there is literally not a single person at any of the tables. I consider that positively insane. Maybe it's because they know I'll just go back over to Slots, but I would pull out $100 on the tables and will usually only play $50 in a session on the Slots. I guess it's their choice if they like paying their dealers to stand there and do nothing, though.

I also think the Island's Blackjack rules are horrible.

-Hs17
-Resplit to 3 hands only
-Cannot Resplit Aces
-Cannot Hit Split Aces
-No Late Surrender
-Only Double on First Two Cards

I guess they're not God-awful given BJ at least pays 3:2 and you can double on a Split hand, but that basically just prevents the Rules from being as bad as they could possibly be.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Tiltpoul
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June 8th, 2012 at 6:24:53 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I also think the Island's Blackjack rules are horrible.

-Hs17
-Resplit to 3 hands only
-Cannot Resplit Aces
-Cannot Hit Split Aces
-No Late Surrender
-Only Double on First Two Cards

I guess they're not God-awful given BJ at least pays 3:2 and you can double on a Split hand, but that basically just prevents the Rules from being as bad as they could possibly be.



That's ironic, since less than 2 years ago they had some of the BEST rules in the country. S17, no RSA, Surrender allowed and dealt face up on double deck with 75% penetration.
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Mission146
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June 8th, 2012 at 6:37:32 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

That's ironic, since less than 2 years ago they had some of the BEST rules in the country. S17, no RSA, Surrender allowed and dealt face up on double deck with 75% penetration.



I made a mistake, when I said, "No Late Surrender," I meant you can Surrender early. I put that in the list of bad rules, though, that was the mistake. That also contributes to the Rules not being as bad as they could possibly be.

They definitely Hs17 and there are six decks in the shoe now, as well. I think you still get that kind of penetration, though, but that hardly matters comparing two decks to six decks.
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JohnnyQ
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June 10th, 2012 at 6:56:49 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I won't even mention Video Poker, because you'd be better off playing slots. I check for two games, BP and JoB. The BEST JoB I saw was 8-5 and that was at the $2 level. At .25, you get 6-5.



I would have guessed (wrong, as it turns out) that they
would have set their VP paytables with an eye to the
competition in Detroit. Since Greektown has good
VP paytables at 25 cents, so to my way of thinking
Hollywood Toledo would have set paytables equal or
at least close to that.

Also interesting to me that there is a 3 % payback
difference at the Toledo casino between 7/5
Bonus Poker and 6/5 JoB. (Basically 98 % vs
95 % from the Wizard's other site). Why
would a casino manager set the paytables
with so much difference ? Is BP harder to learn
the correct strategy ?
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Ibeatyouraces
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June 10th, 2012 at 7:59:06 PM permalink
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Mission146
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June 10th, 2012 at 9:13:50 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Maybe this is the cost to have a non smoker sitting next to you, who knows. MGM has some bad vp compared to the other 2 in Detroit. Even though they have NSUD and 9/6 JOB, Greektowns cashback sucks. MC's was downgraded from .28% to .20% also for black card holders (I get .24% for being Elite). I don't know what Toledos' cashback is.



Just tell me the smoke bothers you, my friend, I'll put it out.

It's not the case for everyone, but for most of us, all you need do is ask. I always check with everyone at the table and at my row of machines if that is what I am doing before I light up. It's my habit, so if it bothers other people, I can move.
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Tiltpoul
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June 11th, 2012 at 5:35:05 AM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ

I would have guessed (wrong, as it turns out) that they would have set their VP paytables with an eye to the competition in Detroit. Since Greektown has good VP paytables at 25 cents, so to my way of thinking Hollywood Toledo would have set paytables equal or at least close to that.



They didn't even set it close to Cleveland. While I didn't find any full-pay VP machines, I did find a few banks of 8/6 JoB at .25 and higher. That's playable for a free room at the Ritz-Carlton!

Quote: JohnnyQ

Also interesting to me that there is a 3 % payback difference at the Toledo casino between 7/5 Bonus Poker and 6/5 JoB. (Basically 98 % vs 95 % from the Wizard's other site). Why would a casino manager set the paytables with so much difference? Is BP harder to learn the correct strategy ?



I'm not sure where you're getting the 7/5 BP figure from Hollywood. The same denoms were the atrocious 6/5 with a slightly better pay table on 4 of a kind. Better than JoB, but still awful.
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Ibeatyouraces
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June 11th, 2012 at 6:54:41 AM permalink
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Ibeatyouraces
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June 11th, 2012 at 6:56:11 AM permalink
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JohnnyQ
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June 11th, 2012 at 2:43:14 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

DB was 7/5 at quarters!



Oooops. Yes, I read DB 7/5 but wrote down
7/5 BP.

My bad.

What is the paytable return on 7/5 DB ?

Per WoO, 6/5BP is 96.87, which makes
their paytables consistent. Consistently
bad, but consistent !
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Gabes22
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June 11th, 2012 at 2:44:26 PM permalink
I spent a week in Toledo one night.
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JohnnyQ
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June 11th, 2012 at 2:50:16 PM permalink
You picked a fine time to leave me Lucille !
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Tiltpoul
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June 11th, 2012 at 2:54:38 PM permalink
Quote: JohnnyQ


Per WoO, 6/5BP is 96.87, which makes their paytables consistent. Consistently bad, but consistent !



That would be correct if there was the stratified paytable for Aces, 2-4 and 5-K. However, the Hollywood BP table is 35-1 for all four of a kinds, and I believe that's considerably worse than the other.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
silversonic2006
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June 11th, 2012 at 6:05:05 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The maximum pull in West Virginia is $5.00, which I'm pretty sure is a Legislated thing, so no opportunity to take, "The big shot," even if I am way ahead.



Hollywood Charles Town WV has $10, $25, and $100 per pull machines now, in a cordoned off area across from the high limit tables nook. Also, MD Live has two $100 slot machines (one of which was a two coin machine) in their high limit pit.
Mission146
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June 11th, 2012 at 6:16:46 PM permalink
Quote: silversonic2006

Hollywood Charles Town WV has $10, $25, and $100 per pull machines now, in a cordoned off area across from the high limit tables nook. Also, MD Live has two $100 slot machines (one of which was a two coin machine) in their high limit pit.



That's terrific information, thank you!!!

I'm going to have to try to make it down there one day, then. I'll take one $25 pull if I am up $200 or more and one $100 pull if I am up $500.
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ams288
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October 18th, 2012 at 9:39:51 AM permalink
I played here a few times while I was visiting family at home last weekend (family lives in Maumee, I live in Ann Arbor, MI now). I usually play at the MGM Grand Detroit on the weekends so I wanted to see how Hollywood Toledo compares to that. It's a nice place. Pretty much what you should expect from a brand new casino in Northwest Ohio. The dealers for the most part are very slow and don't have a clue what they're doing, but they're friendly. It takes some of them a while to total up the cards in their heads when you get a bunch of aces and small cards mixed in there.

BJ rules pretty much suck, but I'm just a red chipper so it's not that big of a deal to me. If I was a big better I would never want to waste money there. I didn't realize you couldn't resplit aces and the dealer looked at me like I was crazy when I tried to before he explained their rules to me. I asked if every table was like that and he said yes. He said "I guess it varies from casino to casino whether or not you can resplit aces." I wanted to reply, "No shit, bud!" but I didn't say anything.

I also like to play some JoB but I saw that it was 6-5 at my level of play and I bolted away from there.

I'll stick with the MGM Grand Detroit. Detroit gamblers are a bit more, er, opinionated, but their rules are better and there's more game choices. The only real advantage Toledo offers me is that there's no smoking.
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Ibeatyouraces
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October 18th, 2012 at 10:57:53 AM permalink
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teddys
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October 18th, 2012 at 12:28:48 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

That's the only plus Ohio has and only if you are a nonsmoker. Gaming wise, Detroit is much better. PA probably even more so.

When they first opened I got a mispay in my favor every time I went. That was about three or four times. I'm sure they are much sharper now. Nice place. If I were a straight BJ player, no counting, I would choose there over Detroit just to avoid the smoke. (Rules are the same for low-limits.)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
ams288
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October 18th, 2012 at 12:34:45 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

I were a straight BJ player, no counting, I would choose there over Detroit just to avoid the smoke. (Rules are the same for low-limits.)



I've resplit Aces into four hands before in Detroit. No such luck at Hollywood Toledo.
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Ibeatyouraces
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October 18th, 2012 at 6:43:42 PM permalink
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December 29th, 2012 at 11:14:42 AM permalink
I bitched on the Hollywood Toledo's Facebook page the other day about their crappy video poker pay tables and they responded that they've all recently been changed. They specifically mentioned that there are some 9-6 JoB machines now. I'm sure that's only for the higher denominations, but hey, it's better than it was.

Now if only they'd have better BJ rules...
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MakingBook
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December 29th, 2012 at 11:23:40 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

When they first opened I got a mispay in my favor every time I went. That was about three or four times. I'm sure they are much sharper now. Nice place. If I were a straight BJ player, no counting, I would choose there over Detroit just to avoid the smoke. (Rules are the same for low-limits.)



I benefit from a mispay every shoe at Hollywood Columbus. The dealers are incompetent. Rules suck, but penetration is good.

Never made the trek to Hollywood Toledo; probably never will. I will stop if passing by, but that's it.
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Buzzard
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December 29th, 2012 at 2:16:43 PM permalink
Tiltpoul " Poker room rake is 10% to $6 which is too high, but that's where Detroit has been for years, so I get that, I guess..."


Tilt or anybody familiar. Is that 10% on first $50 and $1 bad beat ????
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December 2nd, 2016 at 8:28:42 AM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I normally reserve reports like these to my blog, but Hollywood Casino- Toledo (HCT) opened up last Monday to relatively less fanfare, since Horseshoe Cleveland was the first (and more prominent) and Scioto Downs covered the Central Ohio market pretty well. Scioto Downs is only slots and VP, so I'll get down there eventually, but I guess the crowds are still ridiculous. HCT is also close enough to the Michigan markets where gambling has been present for years.

On a whim, I decided to drive up last night and check it out. Toledo is about 2 hours from where I live, and the drive is surprisingly easy, despite it being highway most of the way. The casino is located RIGHT OFF I-75; I kid you not, it'snmaybe a 100 yards off the interstate. I'm not sure I've ever seen a Midwest casino that close before. My GPS doesn't recognize the place yet, so I was worried about getting there on the last leg of the route... just take exit 199 off I-75 and you truly can't miss it....

The parking garage is towards the back, and there are blocked roads that are a bit confusing at first going into the property. I think this is not a great idea, since it could lead to a backup on a main road, which in turn, could cause congestion on the interstate. At 11:30 pm on Thursday evening, this wasn't going to be an issue. There are two entrances, one from the parking garage and the other from valet towards the front.

If you haven't been to a Hollywood Casino, let me say the theme is nothing short of impressive, even by Vegas standards. There is a TON to look at, and walking around the casino will be a pleasure, with all the ads and colors and sights. If you come through the parking garage entrance, the huge wave screen will probably overwhelm you the first time you see it...

And that's part of the problem. Hollywood Casino uses a cookie-cutter model for all of its casinos, so if you've been in one of the updated ones (Lawrenceburg, the PA one, Joliet, and I assume KC), they are basically all the same. To me, I like walking around and discovering what makes a casino unique; here, I just look for which design elements they put where. I didn't see the big hanging balls (IF YOU'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT); otherwise, the wave screen, the gaudy red carpet, the large stone pillars... it's all there.

The layout reminds me a bit of a spread-out River City casino in St Louis. The middle has a bar area and a lounge that serves food called Scene (which is the first time I've seen that at a Hollywood). Both entrances will feature table games near there, though the valet entrance is an overflow pit. On both sides of the bar that separates the areas there are slot machines. The poker room is near the valet entrance. All VP is concentrated in an area near the poker room. Two Smoking areas (since Ohio is smoke-free) take you to an outside area that is still connected to the casino. The High Limit room is in the back corner, not too far from the combined cashier/player's club sign-ups. For now, they do have a separate sign up area, though it wasn't open when I got there before midnight. Food options are in the opposite back corner, all in a row, including the 24-hour grill (Take 2), Epic Buffet and Final Cut Steakhouse. Yep, it's a Hollywood Casino....

Table games offered include BJ*, Roulette (0,00), Craps (3-4-5x odds, Fire bet, forgot field, but assume it's double on 12), Mini-Baccarat on tall tables, Pai Gow Poker**, Ultimate Texas Hold Em***, Mississippi Stud, Let It Ride, Crazy 4, TCP w/ Progressive (40-30-6-3-1) and a Big 6 Wheel.

*BJ- I didn't play and forgot to ask specific rules... however, when I got there, the table wording looked like it was S17. Then I actually read it, and it says "Dealer must draw to 16 and soft 17 and stand on hard 17s" I think this is VERY deceptive; it might be how they word it up in MI, so I can't get too mad. I know AC does the same type of wording too.

**PGP- This is what I played that evening. However, I MUST post their bonus payout, since I think it is officially the STRANGEST paytable I've ever seen for Fortune.

7-card SF NJ- 5000:1, Envy $2500
RF + RM- 1000:1, Envy $500
7-card SF w/J- 500:1, Envy $250
5 Aces- 300:1, Envy $150
Royal- 110:1, Envy $55
Straight Flush- 45:1, Envy $25
Quads- 25:1 Envy $6
The rest is all standard 5,4,3,2 no two pair bonus.

Even though the dealer was new, she agreed that a 110:1 payout and 45:1 payout didn't make any sense. The Envy bonuses are a bit more generous than I've seen especially for the more frequent. I didn't see a max aggregate, but there was one on Crazy 4 so there has to be one for PGP.

***UTH- I like this game, but they put the crappy 20-7-6-5-3 paytable on the trips. If MGM still offers the nicer paytable (30-9-7-4-3), head up an hour north and risk your life for it...

Table minimums were high, but not insane like at Horseshoe ($15 for most games, including PGP, which to me is low). Also do not get the $500 chips unless you want to be scrutinized. The pit supervisor said it takes about 20 minutes to verify that amount on the cameras, so just ask for $100 chips, and you'll be okay.

I won't even mention Video Poker, because you'd be better off playing slots. I check for two games, BP and JoB. The BEST JoB I saw was 8-5 and that was at the $2 level. At .25, you get 6-5. No thanks! Poker room rake is 10% to $6 which is too high, but that's where Detroit has been for years, so I get that, I guess... It was mostly 1-2 with 200 max being played.

They are currently doing a match card level promotion, so I'm already a Celebrity (2nd tier) with them. I got my card after I played, since the line was ridiculous when I got there. I took my card to the pit, where Gary the supervisor gave me full credit for my 2 hours of play...

Which leads me to the service, which was surprisingly good! I say surprisingly, since Hollywood's are becoming notorious for awful service. Our main PGP dealer Amy was great, though she forgot to thank me for tipping. Her relief was excellent, fast and did thank me. He was also very knowledgeable so if you're on here, good work! The last dealer before I left was very slow and not sure exactly what she was doing. This is to be expected in a new casino. I laughed when other players were barking that they couldn't bank; do you think some of these dealers could handle that on TOP of everything else?? I don't think so...

In comparison to Horseshoe Cleveland, Horseshoe has MUCH better games all around. The layout of Hollywood is 1000x better though, as it's much more spacious and not crammed into an old department store. The parking is obviously better and the smoking areas were much better planned. Food options are also not an issue at Hollywood. Service right now is a draw between the two properties, but rest assured, Penn will screw that up after a while, so I'll give the slight edge to Horseshoe.

OVERALL, despite my spite towards Penn National, I have to say they did a decent job in Toledo. Time will tell if Toledo can truly support a full-scale casino after they are up and running all over in Ohio. My guess is that it will be a no, and when Penn makes it their own, the service will go downhill fast. That could be enough to send the border people up to Detroit again. Maybe.


I thought I'd give a partial update on some of the offerings at HWC Toledo.

BJ: rules haven't changed but they have installed many CSM's. I will check if RSA is allowed or not. Not sure how many decks in the CSM, but I assume 6. Shoes are still 8D. High limit is S17 & 6D.

VP: at the 25¢ & 50¢ levels, all of the JoB type games (including BP, DB, DDB, SDDB etc.) are at the 8/5 level. TDB is 9/5. DW is the lousy 20 for 1 for the wild royal. But at the $1 & $2 level you get the 99.92% Triple Deuces (10/8) where Four Deuces pay 3000 credits. All other games are still at the 8/5 level, so no improvement there. High limit is actually the same or worse, so I would advise anyone to ignore it. On top of that, there are only a couple of machines in there. There is a MultiStrike in there but I think the pays are lousy as well. Overall, the best paying games are the 25¢-$2 8/5 SDDB(99.69%), $1-$2 TDW(99.92%) and 8/5 BP(99.17%). Most gimmick (UX, STP, SP, etc.) games typically have the same or lower pay tables.

There is no cash back. Points you see accruing on the machine are tier points. The display also shows accruing comp value for that session. Comps were slow to rack up here but have improved a bit (There's a Monday promo been going on the last few months where you get 5x comps).

UTH: they still have the crappy Trips bet so avoid that as well. Two tables.

TCP: 4/3/1 ante bonus. Six card bonus and $1 progressive as well but should be avoided anyway. Two tables.

LIR: still going strong here. One table.

Miss. Stud: two tables.

Craps: didn't check out any rule but will on next visit.

PGP: usually $25 minimum, but I have seen $15 on a very limited basis. I believe the side bet is the same. Will check on next visit.

Scene lounge has decent burgers and a good (to me) T-Bone steak. Avoid the paper thin pizza. While ok, you need to eat it with a knife and fork. Other than that, the menu is quite small. The food court has typical fare, burgers etc. My favorite is the steak hoagie. We haven't tried Final Cut Steakhouse yet as it would take years to rack up the appropriate amount of comps and I sure as hell am not paying cash for over priced food.

If there's anything I missed, I'll check on the next visit.
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ams288
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December 2nd, 2016 at 8:32:08 AM permalink
Last time I was at Hollywood Toledo I sat down at a $10 BJ table and my first hand was a blackjack.

The dealer paid me $12.

I told the dealer I didn't realize it was a 6:5 table and immediately colored up.

He told me that the $10 tables are 6:5 and the $15+ tables are 3:2. Prior to that they had never had 6:5 tables.
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Ibeatyouraces
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December 2nd, 2016 at 8:38:39 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Last time I was at Hollywood Toledo I sat down at a $10 BJ table and my first hand was a blackjack.

The dealer paid me $12.

I told the dealer I didn't realize it was a 6:5 table and immediately colored up.

He told me that the $10 tables are 6:5 and the $15 tables are 3:2. Prior to that they had never had 6:5 tables.


I did not see this anywhere. I saw many $10 blackjack get $15. Possible they tried it and it didn't last. Greektown did have some 6:5 at one time then scrapped it. I will definitely look and ask next time.
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ams288
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December 2nd, 2016 at 8:42:23 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I did not see this anywhere. I saw many $10 blackjack get $15. Possible they tried it and it didn't last. Greektown did have some 6:5 at one time then scrapped it. I will definitely look and ask next time.



This was over a year ago. I haven't been back since (never really been a fan of that casino in the first place).

Hopefully it was a failed experiment.
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Ibeatyouraces
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December 2nd, 2016 at 8:46:02 AM permalink
Quote: ams288


Hopefully it was a failed experiment.


It probably was, just as it was at GT. Unfortunately, the suckers flock to it like flies on $h!t on the weekends at MGM. And with $100 bets too!!
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Ibeatyouraces
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September 29th, 2017 at 1:25:08 PM permalink
Hollywood Toledo added $5 NSUD, 9/7 TDB and 9/6 Bonus Deluxe next to the three All Star II's in the high limit area.
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