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Nareed
Nareed
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October 11th, 2011 at 2:48:57 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I see some bloggers that offer barely believable explanations. Some say it is related to lambskin wallets. Others say it is short for "porcelana". Neither explanation sounds believable.



I don't believe it either. And while there are some sheep farms here and there, it's not like mexico is known for the quality of its sheep or wool.


Quote:

MÉXICO: billete, lechuga, lana, feria, varo, Sor Juana, Benito, Juaritos, Cuauhtémoc, tostón, MILagro, marmaja, morlaco, pachocha, excremento, hija, hermana, madre, bola, billeye...



Of that I can vouch for "billete" which just means "bill" or "bank note," "Feria," meaning "fair" or "amusement park," lana and varo. Sor Juana, benitos, etc may ahve referred to the people who apepared in certain bills. But I've never heard anyone use such terms.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
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Wizard
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October 11th, 2011 at 8:24:08 PM permalink
Fecha: 12 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Orgulloso


Today's word simply means proud. I don't know of any similar words in English or Spanish, so I think Paco will have his work cut out for him.

Ejemplo time.

Yo estaba orgulloso que ser invitado a la fiesta. = I was proud to be invited to the party.

My biggest doubt is the que. Maybe por, de, or nothing at all. Spanish prepositions are tough. Also, maybe fue instead of estaba, but I am never on thick ice when it comes to ser and estar.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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October 11th, 2011 at 9:04:35 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My biggest doubt is the que. Maybe por, de, or nothing at all. Spanish prepositions are tough. Also, maybe fue instead of estaba, but I am never on thick ice when it comes to ser and estar.



Then you're going to be surprised:

Quote:

Yo estaba orgulloso que ser invitado a la fiesta. = I was proud to be invited to the party.



"Estoy orgulloso de haber sido invitado a la fiesta"

You'll notice i used the present tense. That's because using the past tense in that sentence changes the meaning of what you're saying. If you said "Estaba orgulloso de haber sido invitado a la fiesta," past tense, you're implying you were proud of the invitation but no longer are. In English, of course, the sue of the past tense means only that the moment of pride occurred in the past, but whether you're still proud of the invitation or not is unknown.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 12th, 2011 at 12:34:33 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 12 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Orgulloso


Today's word simply means proud. I don't know of any similar words in English or Spanish, so I think Paco will have his work cut out for him.

Ejemplo time.

Yo estaba orgulloso que ser invitado a la fiesta. = I was proud to be invited to the party.

My biggest doubt is the que. Maybe por, de, or nothing at all. Spanish prepositions are tough. Also, maybe fue instead of estaba, but I am never on thick ice when it comes to ser and estar.



Orgullo was the word of the day in June 2011.

You discussed pride when you interpreted Gilligan's Island as personification of the 7 Deadly Sins. At the time I said that soberbia which is a cognate with English superior has slightly more negative meaning. All Western culture struggles with the idea of "pride" both as a virtue and as a "sin" depending on context. The word "soberbia" has that sense of "superiority" which is ambigious. The word "orgulloso" is a Catalan word originally, and has no cognate in Latin or English. From what I have seen, it is more likely to be interpreted as the "good sense of pride" (even though the dictionary gives "haughtiness" as a possible translation).


pride superiority greed avarice lust envy gluttony wrath ire sloth laziness English Seven deadly sins
S A L I G I A Acronym
superbia avaritia luxuria invidia gula ira acedia Latin septem peccata mortalia
superbia avarizia lussuria invidia gola ira accidia  Italian sette vizi capitali 
soberbia avaricia lujuria envidia gula ira pereza Spanish Los siete pecados mortales
l'orgueil l'avarice la luxure l'envie la gourmandise la colère la paresse French les sept péchés capitaux



In English the sentence "I was proud to be invited to the party" actually uses two different conjugations of the verb be : (1) was (first person past), (2) "to be" the infinitive form. In English the continuity of your sense of pride is in doubt. It is possible that the rest of the sentence is: "I was proud to be invited to the party, until I realized every Tom, Dick, and Harry was invited."

If you change the English to "I am proud to have been invited to the party", then you remove all doubt. You are still proud, and "have been" conveys that the extension of the invitation is a completed action.

The ambiguity is, however, tolerable in English. In Spanish the ambiguity is intolerable. You must use the latter form of the sentence. Note that sido is the past participle of ser (i.e. been) while estoy is the first person present of estar so the translation ended up using both "ser" and "estar".
Wizard
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October 12th, 2011 at 10:50:53 PM permalink
Very nicely done chart Paco, thank you. It must have taken a while to put together.

Also, that is very interesting about the past tense in Spanish. I enjoy the subtleties like this. In English you assume the present has not changed, unless otherwise noted. In Spanish, the opposite. Que interestante.

However, new day, time to move on.

Fecha: 13 de Octobre, 2011
Palabra: Equivocarse


Contrary to what you might think, equivocarse does not mean equivocate, but it is similar.

Equivocarse = To be wrong.

Equivocate = To be deliberately confusing or misleading, often using words the listener may not understand or misunderstand. Perhaps legally truthful, but meant to be interpreted wrong.

Ejemplo time.

Equivocas acusame de engañar en el examen. = You're wrong to accuse me of cheating on the exam.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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October 13th, 2011 at 6:09:00 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 13 de Octobre, 2011 Palabra: Equivocarse



In the DRAE definition it gives both a transitive and a pronomial (reflexive) definition. But after the transitive verb definition, the abbreviation U. m. c. prnl. follow. The abbreviation says it is "Used mostly with the pronomial" (hence the -se prefix).

Equivocar.(De equívoco).
1. transitive: Tener o tomar algo por otra cosa, juzgando u obrando desacertadamente. U. m. c. prnl.
2. pronomial: Dicho de dos o más cosas: Semejarse mucho y parecer una misma.
Ejemplo RAE: Ese muro se equivoca CON la fachada.

Looking closer at the 2nd definition:
The RAE frequently starts out with the clause "Dicho de" to set context. "Dicho" is an irregular past participle (-ing form) of decir, so it translate to "speaking of". So the first clause is "speaking of two or more things:"

semejar and semajarse are both translated in English "to resemble" (since it is basically a reflexive verb in English)
paracer means to "appear like"

So the pigeon English translation of the RAE definition would be "to resemble much" and "appear" the same. Although we would probably say "Speaking of two or more things: they appear to someone as more or less the same".

The first definition is more of the definition of "to err" or "to be wrong". The second definition is more or less "to equivocate" in English.



Wizard, I think you are using wrong in the incorrect context. You are using it in the moral judgement sense, where I think the meaning is more about making the incorrect choice.

EDIT:

Since Nareed hasn't answered I posted this question on another forum. One person suggested that the word could be about something morally wrong also. They suggested:

Tuve una relación extramatrimonial. Me equivoqué.
I had an affair. I made a mistake.

But that still is making the "incorrect" choice. In English the word as a verb means to act unjustly or dishonestly toward (someone): i.e. "the people I have wronged". It doesn't seem to mean the same thing in Spansih.

As for your example:
One writer suggested the following variations to clarify that you mean the accuser made the "wrong" choice.
Estás equivocado por acusarme de hacer chuleta. You're flat out wrong...I didn't cheat.
Te equivocaste de la persona que hiciera chuleta. You've got the wrong person.
Te equivocaste con lo de hacer chuleta. You're mistaken about this cheating business.

If you specifically meant that the accusation was "unjust" then the verb "injusto" is more appropriate.
Es injusto que me acuses de hacer chuleta. It's unjust to accuse me.

An educated native speaker felt that the other definition in the DRAE (similar to "equivocate") is extremely obscure. It would be more common to use "ofuscar".
pacomartin
pacomartin
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October 13th, 2011 at 1:28:34 PM permalink
QUIZ

This quiz highlights one of the problems with verb usage between Spanish and English. The following 11 verbs are used in a sentence, and the translation is correct. Can you tell what these verbs have in common?

It is subtle, but if you can figure it out, you will have a guide against a common mistake. Most of the verbs are frequently used.

# Infinitive Ejemplo English Translation
1 agradecer Le agradecí su pacienia. I thanked him for his patience.
2 aprovechar ¿No quiere Ud. aprovechar la oportunidad? Don't you want to take advantage of this opportunity?
3 buscar Busco mi libro. I am looking for my book.
4 escuchar Escucho la música. I am listening to the music.
5 esperar Espero el autobús. I am waiting for the bus.
6 guardar cama La semana pasada guardé cama. Last week. I stayed in bed.
7 lograr El alumno logró hacerlo. The pupil succeeded in doing it.
8 mirar Miro el cielo. I am looking at the sky.
9 pagar Pagué los billetes. I paid for the tickets.
10 pedir Pido un libro. I am asking for a book.
11 soler+inf. Suelo acompañar a mis amigo en el autobús. I am in the habit of acconpanying my friends on the bus.
Nareed
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October 13th, 2011 at 2:04:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Equivocas acusame de engañar en el examen. = You're wrong to accuse me of cheating on the exam.



"TE equivocas AL acusarme de HABER HECHO trampa en el examen"

Your sentence means "You're wrong to accuse me of deceiving on the test" :)
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Wizard
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Wizard
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October 13th, 2011 at 5:01:56 PM permalink
Thanks for all the comments. I meant to say in English that that the accuser was morally wrong to make the accusation of cheating. I feel strongly that if you're going to make a strong accusation it should be backed up with strong evidence. So it was a wrong choice, but the emphasis should be on it being morally wrong.

Here is the sentence I read in my book yesterday that gave me the idea to pick the word of the day, (Name of sister) tenía razón y ella estaba equivocada.

Regarding Paco's question, this is probably wrong, but in English we use a preposition after said words, and it is omitted in Spanish. However, I doubt that answer, because Spanish often implies a preposition where one is directly stated in English. I doubt it is limited to those words.

Nareed, I would have never got your translation of that sentence. After looking it up I see that "hacer trampas" is an idiom for cheat. I think I deserve only a mild castigo for that one, for how would anyone but a fluent speaker know that? Speaking of which, my house cleaner uses the word castigado for punishment, is that right?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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October 13th, 2011 at 7:08:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks for all the comments. I meant to say in English that that the accuser was morally wrong to make the accusation of cheating.



"Equivocado" means wrong as in mistaken. I don't think there's a word for morally wrong, but there isn't one in English, either.

Quote:

Nareed, I would have never got your translation of that sentence. After looking it up I see that "hacer trampas" is an idiom for cheat. I think I deserve only a mild castigo for that one, for how would anyone but a fluent speaker know that?



I'm fairly sure we've covered it before. Of course, this isn't a formal course and I don't keep track. For all I know you don't keep notes.

Now, about that exam.... :P

Quote:

Speaking of which, my house cleaner uses the word castigado for punishment, is that right?



Castigado means punished. Castigo is punishment.

But in an NFL game, the Spanish commentators translate "penalty" as "castigo." That's odd, since there is a word for penalty: Penalización. Worse yet, in sucker they refer to a penalty kick as a penalti <shrug>
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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