Thread Rating:

pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
October 8th, 2011 at 10:21:55 AM permalink
They don't use the phrase Sam Soy Yo for two reasons. It (a) doesn't rhyme, and (b) that isn't how you form the passive voice in Spanish.
I am not sure how to translate "Sam, I am" into Spanish since it is such an awkward phrase in English (if it didn't rhyme). I think it would be Sam, soy siendo.

Green Eggs and Ham by Dr. Seuss Huevos verdes con jamón por Dr. Seuss
(I am Sam) (Yo soy Juan)
(Sam I am) (Yo soy Juan Ramón)
That Sam-I-am! That Sam-I-am! I do not like that Sam-I-am! ¡Ese Juan Ramón! ¡Ese Juan Ramón! ¡No me gusta nada ese Juan Ramón!
Do you like green eggs and ham? ¿Te gustan los huevos verdes con jamón?
I do not like them, Sam-I-am. I do not like green eggs and ham. No, no me gustan nada, Juan Ramón. No, no me gustan nada los huevos verdes con jamón.
Would you like them here or there? ¿Te gustarían aquí o los quieres allá?
I would not like them here or there. I would not like them anywhere. I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-am. No, no me gustarían, no los quiero aquí ni allá. No, no me gustarían aquí, allá o mas allá. Pues no me gustan nada los huevos verdes con jamón. No, no me gustan nada, Juan Ramón.
Would you like them in a house? Would you like them with a mouse? ¿Te gustarían en un caserón? ¿Te gustarían con un ratón?
I do not like them in a house. I do not like them with a mouse. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-am. No, no me gustarían en un caserón. No, no me gustarían con un ratón. No, no me gustarían aquí, allá o mas allá. Pues no me gustan nada los huevos verdes con jamón. No, no me gustan nada,Juan Ramón.
Would you eat them in a box? Would you eat them with a fox? ¿Los comerías en un cajón con un zorro en un rincón?
Not in a box. Not with a fox. Not in a house. Not with a mouse. I would not eat them here or there I would not eat them anywhere. I would not eat green eggs and ham.I do not like them, Sam-I-am. No los quiero en un cajón con un zorro en un rincón. Tampoco en un caserón y menos con un ratón. No los como aquí ni allá, aquí, allá o más allá. No como huevos verdes con jamón pues no me gustan nada, Juan Ramón.
Would You? Could you? In a car? Eat them! Eat them! Here they are. ¿Podrías? ¿Los querrías en un coche? ¡Cómelos que se enfrían esta noche!
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
October 8th, 2011 at 10:34:45 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

No voy a comerlos, Sam Soy Yo. No me gustan huevos verdes y jamón Ibérico. = I will not eat them, Sam I Am. I do not like green eggs and Iberian ham.



I wouldn't eat green eggs, either.

BTW it's "No me gustan LOS huevos verdes..."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
October 8th, 2011 at 10:42:24 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

They don't use the phrase Sam Soy Yo for two reasons. It (a) doesn't rhyme, and (b) that isn't how you form the passive voice in Spanish.



I won't go into the fine points of translating poetry, even bad poetry, but it is common to substitute words to force the rhyme. That's why it's best left untranslated.


One of the French kings, probably Louis XIV, made a famous proclamation "L'État, c'est moi" In Spanish that translates as "El Estado soy yo." And that's exactly right.

Quote:

I am not sure how to translate "Sam, I am" into Spanish since it is such an awkward phrase in English (if it didn't rhyme). I think it would be Sam, soy siendo.



Just like the Wizard did. Your version means "Sam I am being"
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1398
  • Posts: 23603
October 8th, 2011 at 10:44:22 AM permalink
Wow, thanks for the extensive translation of Green Eggs and Ham. They obviously took some liberties with it. For example, why did they put the fox in a corner?

Going from Eat them! Eat them! Here they are to ¡Cómelos que se enfrían esta noche! is quite a jump.

It just goes to show the frustration I often deal with trying to get through the Spanish translation of an English book. For example, the original English book refers to the tooth fairy. However, in the Spanish translation the fairy becomes a raton. One might think that raton was Spanish for fairy. I asked my house cleaner about it and she said in Mexico a mouse does indeed exchange children's baby teeth for money, instead of the fairy that has that duty north of the border. My tutor says in Argentina they also have the mouse. Makes me wonder which came first? I'd bet on the mouse, and we gringos couldn't stand the thought of a mouse crawling around the bed of sleeping children, so softened the legend to a fairy.

About Sam Soy Yo, I obviously had to take a wild guess on that one. I thought my way at least sounded good, so went with that. Juan Ramón has a nice ring to it, I must admit. I'd be proud to have that name.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
October 8th, 2011 at 12:57:44 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Makes me wonder which came first? I'd be on the mouse, and we gringos couldn't stand the thought of a mouse crawling around the bed of sleeping children, so softened the legend to a fairy.

About Sam Soy Yo, I obviously had to take a wild guess on that one. I thought my way at least sounded good, so went with that. Juan Ramón has a nice ring to it, I must admit. I'd be proud to have that name.



It would appear you are correct. The mouse version began with a French fairy tale writer in the late 17th century (a century before the Brothers Grimm), while the English version of a "fairy" only appears definitively in a book published in 1949. The mouse version is far better known in more cultures.



I appear to have over-thought the translation. My reasoning was "I am Sam" is an active voice, so "Sam I am" must be passive voice. I tried to construct it according to the passive voice rules.
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 7115
October 8th, 2011 at 1:34:27 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

My reasoning was "I am Sam" is an active voice, so "Sam I am" must be passive voice.

I thought that was Yoda voice.

More seriously, I can't remember details of passive voice, but I think of it with action verbs, with an assisting form of to be or to get: "I push," vs. "I am pushed." I can't really think of passive voice forms with non-action verbs. If I use the same kind of structure, I wind up with some sort of progressive form: "I am being Sam."
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1398
  • Posts: 23603
October 8th, 2011 at 3:28:19 PM permalink
The passive voice emphasizes the object of an action, rather than who is causing the action. For example, "The window was opened by the thief."

I got into the active/passive voice thing in my Ask the Wizard question about a Harry Reid/Sharon Angle poll. To some statisticians, it makes a big difference.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
October 8th, 2011 at 4:31:38 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I appear to have over-thought the translation. My reasoning was "I am Sam" is an active voice, so "Sam I am" must be passive voice. I tried to construct it according to the passive voice rules.



I hate that term. Back when I was active in a writer's group, there was a reviewer who would point out every example of passive voice and suggest I change it. It got so I couldn't read her reviews of my work. I always write what achieves a purpose and sounds good to me, and the hell with the rules.

In any case, "Sam soy yo" is perfectly right. If you were pointing yourself out in a photo, you could say "ese soy yo."
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 7115
October 8th, 2011 at 5:17:53 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Back when I was active in a writer's group, there was a reviewer who would point out every example of passive voice and suggest I change it.

Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker also discourages passive voice. I usually ignore that advice. I feel that the 20th century teachings against passive voice are as inappropriate as the 19th/20th century teachings against splitting infinitives in English. Wikipedia has a bit of discussion about when/where this anti-passive-voice movement started and some of the arguments against and for use of passive voice. Same for split infinitives.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
October 8th, 2011 at 5:28:05 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Microsoft Word's Grammar Checker also discourages passive voice.



That one keeps hounding me for sentence fragments. I know what a sentence fragment is, and I can think of good reasons not to use them. I can also think of good reasons to use them in some occasions. Really. I wish the grammar check had an "ignore this type of correction" option.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

  • Jump to: