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Nareed
Nareed
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September 27th, 2011 at 6:19:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The reason for the los was my way of saying "them." I can see how it would be obvious by context without it, but I was trying to be clear. I admit I blew it by putting it after soy. What would you say if I put porque los soy alérgico.



I'd smile :)

Really, there's no need to say "I'm allergic to them" because the subject under discussion is clear. You could say "Soy alérgico a las nueces, por favor no le pongas a la ensalada." But you're in the same situation then.

If you must refer to "them," then you'd say "no le pongas nueces a la ensalada porque soy alérgico a estas." But I maintain that sounds redundant. In the work I do, sales to government, we use phrases like that all the time and it feels stupid. Worse, sometimes I catch my coworkers speaking like that <sigh>

Quote:

I see your alternative version leaves out the le. Can you just tell me why you put it in there in your version above?



Seriously I can't say. Both examples are correct, but I can't say what adding "le" in one does. Sorry.
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Wizard
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September 27th, 2011 at 8:08:30 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Seriously I can't say. Both examples are correct, but I can't say what adding "le" in one does. Sorry.



Thanks. How would you translate this, El gerente no le puede decir.
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Nareed
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September 27th, 2011 at 8:56:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. How would you translate this, El gerente no le puede decir.



The manager can't tell him.
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Wizard
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September 27th, 2011 at 9:23:22 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

The manager can't tell him.



Why isn't it, "The manager can't say that."?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
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September 27th, 2011 at 9:25:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Why isn't it, "The manager can't say that."?



Because that would be "El gerente no lo puede decir."
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pacomartin
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September 27th, 2011 at 11:18:08 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Because that would be "El gerente no lo puede decir."



Wizard
The reason it is difficult to understand is because there is no equivalent in English. In English, we use the same pronouns for both direct and indirect objects. In Spanish, both types of object pronouns are the same except in the third person. I am copying much of the following explanation .


Definitions
Direct-object pronouns are those pronouns that represent the nouns directly acted upon by the verb.
Indirect-object pronouns stand for the noun that is the recipient of the verb's action.

In both English and Spanish, a verb may have
(1) no object (e.g., "I live," vivo),
(2) a direct object only (e.g., "I killed the fly," maté la mosca), or
(3) both direct and indirect objects (e.g., "I gave her the ring," le di el anillo).
(4) The construction of an indirect object without a direct object isn't used in English, but it can be done in Spanish (e.g., le es difícil, "it is difficult for him.")

In the second example, the direct object of the verb is "the ring" (el anillo), because it is what was given.
The indirect object is "her," (or le) because the person is the recipient of the giving.

Another way of looking at indirect objects in Spanish is that they could be replaced by "a + prepositional pronoun" or sometimes "para + prepositional pronoun." In the example sentence, we could say di el anillo a ella and mean the same thing (just as we could say in English, "I gave the ring to her")

In Spanish, unlike English, a noun can't be an indirect object; it must be used as the object of a preposition. For example, we could say "I gave Sally the ring" in English, but in Spanish the preposition a is needed, le di el anillo a Sally.)

Similarly, note also that in Spanish that the indirect object pronoun must refer to a person or animal.

In English, we use the same pronouns for both direct and indirect objects. In Spanish, both types of object pronouns are the same except in the third person.

The third-person singular direct object pronouns are lo (masculine) and la (feminine), while in the plural, they are los and las. But the indirect object pronouns are le and les in singular and plural, respectively. No distinction is made according to gender.
Wizard
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September 28th, 2011 at 6:53:59 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The third-person singular direct object pronouns are lo (masculine) and la (feminine), while in the plural, they are los and las. But the indirect object pronouns are le and les in singular and plural, respectively. No distinction is made according to gender.



Thanks Paco, that helps. Who do I blame for making these rules so hard?

Fecha: 28 de Sep, 2011
Palabra: sostener


Today's word sostener = to support (as a verb). Pretty easy. The related noun is sostén = support, as a noun. It also means, appropriately, a bra.

Ejemplo time.

Sostengo tres hijos y un pero. = I support three kids and a dog.
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Nareed
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September 28th, 2011 at 7:11:18 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 28 de Sep, 2011
Palabra: sostener



BTW, today's the unofficial but real anniversary of Mexico's independence, achieved on Sept. 28th, 1821.

Anyway:

Quote:

Today's word sostener = to support (as a verb). Pretty easy. The related noun is sostén = support, as a noun. It also means, appropriately, a bra.



And here's where the dictionary and common usage part ways. Technically "sostener" is synonimous with "sustentar," the latter does mean "to support" in the sense you mean in your example. In practice, though, the translation should be "to hold."

For example:

"Las vigas sostienen el techo" = "The beams hold up the roof"

"Sostén el cable mientras preparo el monitor" = "hold the cable while I prepare the monitor."

The verb for "to support" as you used is "mantener", thus:

Quote:

Sostengo tres hijos y un pero. = I support three kids and a dog.



Very good. But you should add a minor modification: "Mantengo A tres hijos y un perro."

The word "sostener" is used in other ways. For example, if a client asks to extends a contract but to keep the prices agreed upon withut changes, she'd ask "queremos sostener los precios actuales."

The noun "sostén" does mean bra. However a more common word in Mexico is "brasier," which doesn't show up in the dictionary. It's a misspelling of "brassiere," naturally. The plural would be "brasieres," keeping in mind all vowels are pronounced.

In short:

Sostener does mean to support, but it's not often used that way. Sostén does mean bra, but it's not often used that way.

Sorry.
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Nareed
Nareed
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September 28th, 2011 at 3:04:38 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Nareed says the second version is more appropriate. I would think that the second form translate more to "because I am allergic to those"
(1) porque soy alérgico a ellos
(2) porque soy alérgico a estas



"Ellos/Ellas" means "them"
"Estos/Estas" means "these"
"Esos/Esas, "Aquellos/aquellas" means "those."

However, at least in Mexico "estos/estas" may also mean "them" depending on context.

BTW you've no idea how Spanish speakers struggle to use "this" and "these." Not to mention the incredible confussion between "good evening" and "good night."
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Wizard
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September 28th, 2011 at 3:53:21 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Not to mention the incredible confussion between "good evening" and "good night."



That is something I've been meaning to bring up. In English we have good: morning,afternoon,evening,night.

In Spanish, as far as I know, we have buenos: días, tardes, noches.

So, can I assume that tardes = afternoon or evening? Any distinction when tarde becomes the noche? For me, I assume the evening becomes the night at sundown, maybe a little later in the winter. There is a certain range when either will do. When I was in Fairbanks AK on the longest day of the year two years ago I was never sure what to say, because it never got all the way dark.

Also, is there any reason why tardes means both afternoon/evening and late? Is it that stuff is supposed to get done in the morning, and if it takes until the afternoon or later then you're dealing with a lazy person who is late finishing?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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