Thread Rating:

Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
September 25th, 2011 at 2:20:54 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

The verb gañar means "to win" and engañar means to bluff, mislead, deceive, and most dictionaries also translate as "cheat".



That's gaNar with an "n"not an "ñ" The verbs mey be related, but "gaÑar" isn't a word.

Quote:

But Nareed reminds us once again that dictionaries are a poor substitute for fluency in a language.



Dictionaries are very useful. What I've said is that it's more useful to look up a definition in a regular dictionary in the language you're learning, rather than using an English to Spanish (or other language) dictionary. the latter have their use, too, but one shouldn't depend on them.

An you should also always take note of how words are used, regardless of their dictionary meaning.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
September 25th, 2011 at 2:57:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I knew that. I've been known to just say Oy! once in a while.



Actually I only use it in print :)


Quote:

Interesting. That is a very common word in English. If someone where to use trampar as the verb for cheat would the meaning be understood? Por ejemplo: Yo gano porque yo trampando.



They might understand, but they'd laugh at you. For one thing, you just said "I win because I cheating."

Quote:

Se is another Spanish word that gives me a hard time. I find that Spanish texts often through them around superfluously, and I don't understand why. To myself I thought that if you're referring to a general group of people it is good form to throw in a se, but I guess not.



It indicates an action by a subject, or an action performed on an object (grammatically speaking). In your example it was superfluous and confusing. Here's a related example:

Se dejó engatusar por una chica guapa = He let himself be fooled by a good-looking girl.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
September 25th, 2011 at 4:22:52 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I like stuff like this. I assume you mean gato, with one t, i.e. a cat.

Do you think it could be said that by putting the en in front of ganar it makes it to win in a bad way? Kind of like infamous in English means famous for a bad thing.



Yes of course I meant one 't'. I am spoiling my own comments.

Spanish uses the prefixes im- or in- to mean opposite: incapaz (incapable), inaudible (inaudible), inconformista (nonconformist) much like English.
capacitar verb to prepare, to qualify
incapacitar verb to incapacitate, to handicap


English has several uses for the prefix "in" and not just for negations. For example: inside, into, information, and intricate.

I am a little perplexed at how to explain the meaning of the prefix en-. I think it is similar to variety of English meanings like: "near, at in, on, within".

cantar v. to sing
encantar v. to enchant, to like very much, to love

cerrar v. to close
encerrar v. to confine

coger v. to grasp, to seize, to catch, to take, to grab
encoger v. to shorten, to shrink

cubrir v. to cover
encubrir v. to hide, to conceal, to mask

marcar v. to observe, to mark, to note
enmarcar v. to frame

sacar v. to get, to take out, to stick out, to take, to pull out, to take (photos), to extract, to withdraw
ensacar v. to put in a bag, to bag

tender v. to stretch, to extend, to offer
entender v. to understand

volver v. to go back, to return, to come back, to turn, to return (to a place)
envolver v. to wrap up


==========================
I did confuse ganar and the non existent word gañar. Sorry to mislead you.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23426
September 25th, 2011 at 4:36:12 PM permalink
Thanks Paco for the above. No further remark on that.

Getting back to the superfluous se, here is a sentence I just came across in a Spanish book I'm trying to get through:

Un payaso se rio y se unió a Ramona. = A clown laughed and joined Ramona.

Why do we need the two se's? It is obvious we're talking about the payaso, so the se does seem to be superfluous. As I mentioned before, I thought it was common to throw in a se when talking about a non-specific person. In this case the book doesn't say the name of the clown at any point. I should probably quit writing and just let one of the experts explain it. Thanks.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
September 25th, 2011 at 4:50:10 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Getting back to the superfluous se, here is a sentence I just came across in a Spanish book I'm trying to get through:

Un payaso se rio y se unió a Ramona. = A clown laughed and joined Ramona.

Why do we need the two se's? It is obvious we're talking about the payaso, so the se does seem to be superfluous.



Because the sentence describes two actions that apply to the clown. If you leave the second "se" out, so the sentence reads "Un payaso se rio y unió a Ramona." the literal English translation doesn't change, but the meaning does. In fact the sentence is incomplete, lacking an indirect object.

Let's back up. Unir means to join, but also to put two or more things together. So for example, a manual could state "Una las partes," meaning "put the parts together."

So the second "se" in the original sentence indicates the clown is joining someone. Otherwise you're saying "a clown laughed and put Ramona together." You'd expect more information, too, such as what or whom did he join Ramona to.

Ask your tutor. I don't think I can make this any clearer (which makes the unwarranted assumption to a degree of clarity)


As I mentioned before, I thought it was common to throw in a se when talking about a non-specific person. In this case the book doesn't say the name of the clown at any point. I should probably quit writing and just let one of the experts explain it. Thanks.

Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23426
September 25th, 2011 at 4:53:56 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

So the second "se" in the original sentence indicates the clown is joining someone. Otherwise you're saying "a clown laughed and put Ramona together." You'd expect more information, too, such as what or whom did he join Ramona to.



Thanks. I get it in this instance.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
September 25th, 2011 at 4:54:29 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Getting back to the superfluous se, here is a sentence I just came across in a Spanish book I'm trying to get through:



Google proposes three different translations for "He laughed and laughed":
(1) El se rió y se rió
(2) Él rió y se rió
(3) Se rió y se rió

The difference between (1) and (2) eludes me.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1390
  • Posts: 23426
September 25th, 2011 at 9:27:35 PM permalink
Fecha: 26 de Sep., 2011
Palabra: PISOTEAR


Today's word, pisotear = to trample on.

Has a strong ring to it. The kind of word I enjoy saying, like the German schadenfreude. I'm sure the experts can address this better, but it seems like the kind of word that there is no direct English equivalent. I like words like that.

Ejemplo time.

Soy muy sensible, entonces no pisotear mis sentimientos. = I'm very sensitive, so don't hurt my feelings.

Questions for the experts: Would you use pisotear in the context of stamping around with your feet. For example, if you wanted to tell a child to not play in your flower garden, might you use pisotear?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Curious55
Curious55
Joined: May 11, 2011
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 26
September 26th, 2011 at 7:21:25 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Un payaso se rio y se unió a Ramona



Hola Wizard,
Hablando de Ramona, no se debe confundir Ramona Cabrera y ramera cabrona :)
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
September 26th, 2011 at 7:57:42 AM permalink
Quote: Curious55

Hola Wizard,
Hablando de Ramona, no se debe confundir Ramona Cabrera y ramera cabrona :)



Ramera Cabrona.

Mi amor, ¿cuántas veces tengo que decirte que me llamo Ramona Cabrera?.

  • Jump to: