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pacomartin
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April 4th, 2012 at 7:54:14 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Fecha: 3 de April, 2012 Palabra: telón



English cognate tela (plural telas) (anatomy) a thin, weblike structure or membrane
pacomartin
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April 4th, 2012 at 8:25:24 AM permalink
Aquí, la gente arruinando es considerado un deporte - Google Translate
Aquí, arruinar a la gente es considerado un deporte - Nareed

Thank you Nareed.
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April 4th, 2012 at 9:45:20 PM permalink
Fecha: 5 de April, 2012
Palabra: Hechicero


Today's SWD is one I should be familiar with. It means wizard or sorcerer.

A question for the advanced readers is how does hechicero differ from mago?

Ejemplo time.

Estoy en una misión de el Hechicero para obtener la escoba de la bruja diabólica del oeste. = I am on a mission from the Wizard to get the broom of the wicked witch of the west.
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pacomartin
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April 5th, 2012 at 12:11:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

A question for the advanced readers is how does hechicero differ from mago?






Actually there is a third verb that can imply magic: encantar= Someter a poderes mágicos. or (submit to a magical power)

But it doesn't look like the Spanish use the noun for a person with magical powers. Penelope Cruz is often referred to a the Spanish enchantress.



Mago, related to magician and magic has the same Latin root as the English words. But hechicero is not related to the English word "hex". In a rather unexpected twist, hechicero is a cognate of the English word "fetish". The development is rather complex.
Nareed
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April 5th, 2012 at 4:22:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Today's SWD is one I should be familiar with. It means wizard or sorcerer.

A question for the advanced readers is how does hechicero differ from mago?



There's no Spanish term for Wizard. "Hechicero" comes close, but what it means is "sorcerer." "Mago" actually means "magician."

I suggested the term "mago" for you because the widespread translation of your namesake, The Wizard of Oz, is "El Mago de Oz."

Quote:

Estoy en una misión de el Hechicero para obtener la escoba de la bruja diabólica del oeste. = I am on a mission from the Wizard to get the broom of the wicked witch of the west.



Very good.

I'd change "de el" for "del." It means the same thing, but Spanish shies away from repeating vowel sounds when possible.
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Wizard
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April 5th, 2012 at 7:27:14 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

"Mago" actually means "magician."

I suggested the term "mago" for you because the widespread translation of your namesake, The Wizard of Oz, is "El Mago de Oz."



I think that translating "The Wizard of Oz" to El Mago de Oz is doing a disservice to the audience. You're not supposed to know that he is just a magician until the end. It gives away a major plot twist in the movie. What was the translator thinking?

Quote: Nareed

I'd change "de el" for "del." It means the same thing, but Spanish shies away from repeating vowel sounds when possible.



I know, but sometimes my fingertips don't. Please add 10 push ups to my tab for that one.
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Nareed
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April 5th, 2012 at 7:34:25 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think that translating "The Wizard of Oz" to El Mago de Oz is doing a disservice to the audience. You're not supposed to know that he is just a magician until the end. It gives away a major plot twist in the movie. What was the translator thinking?



I've no idea, but it goes at least clear back to the MGM movie, if not to the books that spawned it. You won't get it changed now.

Besides, it's a children's story. children may believe magic is real. Speaking of children, while I don't follow neither fantasy nor dubbed movies, I think Harry Potter is referred to as a "mago" in Spanish. Make of that what you will.

Quote:

I know, but sometimes my fingertips don't. Please add 10 push ups to my tab for that one.



I won't. "de el" is also right, just not very common in that context. it does get used, you know. It's a perfectly valid choice.
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pacomartin
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April 5th, 2012 at 8:33:40 AM permalink
  • wizard from 1400's "philosopher, sage," from Middle English wys "wise" . The ground sense is perhaps "to know the future."

    The meaning one with magical power did not emerge distinctly until c.1550, the distinction between philosophy and magic being blurred in the Middle Ages.

    So the reason it isn't directly translatable into Spanish is that the words retain core meaning of "wise man"
  • Oz mythical land in L. Frank Baum's "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" (1900) and sequels; according to an anecdote written by Baum in 1903, inspired by a three-drawer desktop cabinet letter file, the last drawer labeled O-Z.
  • sorcery c.1300, from Old French sorcerie, from sorcier "sorcerer," from Vulgar Latin *sortiarius, lit. "one who influences, fate, fortune," from Latin sors "lot, fate, fortune". The humble word sort is a cognate because it originally meant to "draw lots".
  • magic late 1300's "art of influencing events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces,"
    from Old French "magique",
    from Latin "magice"
    from Greek "magike"
    from magos "one of the members of the learned and priestly class,"
    from Old Persian "magush"
    from Proto Indo European "magh-"
  • fetish 1610s,
    from Portuguese "feitiço" "charm, sorcery,"
    from Latin "facticius" "made by art,"
    from Latin "facere" "to make" ==> Spanish hacer
    Latin facticius in Spanish has become hechizo "magic, witchcraft, sorcery."
    purely psycho-sexual sense first recorded 1897 in writings of Henry Havelock Ellis

    Probably introduced by Portuguese sailors and traders as a name for charms and talismans worshipped by the inhabitants of the Guinea coast of Africa. Popularized in anthropology by C. de Brosses' "Le Culte des Dieux Fétiches" (1760), which influenced the word's spelling in English (French fétiche, also from the Portuguese word). Figurative sense of "something irrationally revered" is Amer.Eng. 1837.

    So a very simple word like hecho "to make" is related to hechizo "to make by sorcery". The common Latin word also gives us "fetish" because as everyone in the middle ages knew, deviant sexual behavior was always caused by witchcraft. "What are you doing with those shoes?"; "A witch made me do it!".

    Sex and the City:"La Douleur Exquise!" pointed out that male foot fetishists were OK, because all women are basically shoe fetishists.
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April 5th, 2012 at 9:12:51 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I've no idea, but it goes at least clear back to the MGM movie, if not to the books that spawned it. You won't get it changed now.

Besides, it's a children's story. children may believe magic is real. Speaking of children, while I don't follow neither fantasy nor dubbed movies, I think Harry Potter is referred to as a "mago" in Spanish. Make of that what you will.



This still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician? She had to believe he really had the power to send to back to Kansas. Titling it "The Magician of Oz" would absolutely ruin the story -- book or movie. I really wish I were still on speaking terms with my tutor to torture her with issue. This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.

I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he? I seem to recall telekinesis from a commercial of one of the movies. That would also make mago a bad translation.

I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacomartin
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April 5th, 2012 at 9:41:51 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This still bothers me. Why would Dorothy go off on a quest to get the witch's broom for just a magician? She had to believe he really had the power to send to back to Kansas. Titling it "The Magician of Oz" would absolutely ruin the story -- book or movie. I really wish I were still on speaking terms with my tutor to torture her with issue. This the kind of thing that will keep me up at night.

I never got into Harry Potter, but he actually did have supernatural powers, didn't he? I seem to recall telekinesis from a commercial of one of the movies. That would also make mago a bad translation.

I have a feeling that if I ever do become bilingual I'm going to be tortured whenever I see bad translations.



Harry Potter characters never had "unaided magical powers". They always involved a potion, a wand, a hat, herbs, a cloak , or some other material object. Nobody waved their hands or blinked and teleported.

The English word magician from it's first appearance in the 1300's, meant someone who could move the forces of nature in mysterious ways. The present meaning of someone who skilled in prestidigitation, illusions, and misdirection is about 200 years old.


It's not clear from the definition below if the Spanish concept retains the more supernatural portions of the definition

Concise Oxford Spanish Dictionary © 2009 Oxford University Press:
mago -ga sustantivo masculino, femenino
(prestidigitador) conjurer, magician
(en cuentos) wizard, magician
(persona habilidosa) wizard
( Hist ) (sacerdote) magus

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