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Nareed
Nareed
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March 31st, 2012 at 11:24:01 PM permalink
I just realized in English the words "probate" and "reprobate" have very different and unrelated meanings.

Wizard, I'll see if I can get you a recording of "La Gallinita Dijo Eureka." I think you'll like it ;)
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pacomartin
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March 31st, 2012 at 11:52:19 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I just realized in English the words "probate" and "reprobate" have very different and unrelated meanings.


La Gallinita Dijo Eureka
La importancia de enseñar inglés

The etymologies are similar, even if the present use is different.

probate (n.)
"official proving of a will," c.1400, from Latin probatum "a thing proved," past participle of probare "to try, test, prove" .

reprobate (adj.)
1540s, "rejected as worthless," from Late Latin reprobatus, past participle of reprobare "disapprove, reject, condemn," from Latine re- "opposite of, reversal of previous condition" + probare "prove to be worthy" (see probate).
The noun is recorded from 1540s, "one rejected by God."
Sense of "abandoned or unprincipled person" is from 1590s.
Earliest form of the word in English was a verb, meaning "to disapprove" (early 15c.).
Wizard
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April 1st, 2012 at 8:44:40 AM permalink
Sorry to change the topic, but I'm feeling we've beaten reprobar to death. Thanks Paco for your help. However, new day, and new month, so let's move on.

Fecha: 1 de April, 2012
Palabra: Arrancar


Today's SWD means to uproot, tear out, or extract. In the context I found it, they used it to pick an apple from a tree:

Tengo que decirla cuando Dorothy arranca una manzana de una de mis ramas. = I have to say it when Dorothy picks an apple from one of my branches.

Ejemplo time.

Si mi cerdo no arrancará ningún trufas me voy a lo comer. = If my pig does not uproot any truffles then I'm going to eat him.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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April 1st, 2012 at 9:54:58 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Sorry to change the topic, but I'm feeling we've beaten reprobar to death.



And then some. But we learned something.

Quote:

Today's SWD means to uproot, tear out, or extract.



It also means to start a car, or to set a car in motion. You don't turn the car on, not in Mexico, you don't start it, either. Well, you do, but the word you use is "arranca el coche."

Quote:

Tengo que decirla cuando Dorothy arranca una manzana de una de mis ramas. = I have to say it when Dorothy picks an apple from one of my branches.



That seems like a sentence fragment. in any case "Tengo que decirlO..."

Quote:

Si mi cerdo no arrancará ningún trufas me voy a lo comer. = If my pig does not uproot any truffles then I'm going to eat him.



You said "If my pig won't uproot...." For what you meant the translation is "Si mi cerdo no aranca ningunA...."
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Wizard
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April 1st, 2012 at 10:28:59 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

It also means to start a car, or to set a car in motion. You don't turn the car on, not in Mexico, you don't start it, either. Well, you do, but the word you use is "arranca el coche."



Interesting. That seems to not belong in the group of other usages of arrancar. Can you elaborate on why people say that?

Quote:

That seems like a sentence fragment. in any case "Tengo que decirlO..."



In the previous sentences the speaker was saying that he had to only say one word (palabra) in the play of the Wizard of Oz. So, I think the la was referring to the feminine palabra. However, that brings up a question if the feminine/masculine nature of the subject matter can carry over from one sentence to another in Spanish.

Quote:

For what you meant the translation is "Si mi cerdo no aranca ningunA...."



Stupid mistake. I owe 10 push ups for that one.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Nareed
Nareed
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April 1st, 2012 at 11:00:21 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Interesting. That seems to not belong in the group of other usages of arrancar. Can you elaborate on why people say that?



It would be difficult because I don't know. The word is also used when people, cars or horses set off on a race. A driver with the pole position can be described as "arranca en el primer sitio." When horses set off in the racetrack, the announcer says "¡arrancan!"

So it is fairly consistent.

Quote:

In the previous sentences the speaker was saying that he had to only say one word (palabra) in the play of the Wizard of Oz. So, I think the la was referring to the feminine palabra. However, that brings up a question if the feminine/masculine nature of the subject matter can carry over from one sentence to another in Spanish.



I leave such things up to context. Sometimes the word's gender is essential in identifying what is meant in an indirect reference, sometimes it's irrelevant. It depends on what you're trying to say and how you're saying it.
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pacomartin
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April 1st, 2012 at 12:28:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Interesting. That seems to not belong in the group of other usages of arrancar. Can you elaborate on why people say that?



    The noun arranque means the "starting mechanism"
  • el motor tiene algunos problemas de arranque = the engine has problems getting started
  • arranque automático = starter motor
  • arranque en frío = cold start
  • arranque manual = crank start

    It also means "the beginning"
  • el arranque de esta tradición se remonta al siglo XVIII = the beginning of this tradition dates back to the 18th century;
  • el arranque de la historia es muy original = the beginning of the story is very original

    The word has an uncertain etymology.
Wizard
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April 1st, 2012 at 8:57:49 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


The noun arranque means the "starting mechanism"

  • el motor tiene algunos problemas de arranque = the engine has problems getting started
  • arranque automático = starter motor
  • arranque en frío = cold start
  • arranque manual = crank start

    It also means "the beginning"
  • el arranque de esta tradición se remonta al siglo XVIII = the beginning of this tradition dates back to the 18th century;
  • el arranque de la historia es muy original = the beginning of the story is very original

    The word has an uncertain etymology.



  • Is it possible that arrancar, and its derivatives, just have two very different meanings of uproot and to start? We certainly see a lot of that in English. For example blow can mean to exhale (blow out the candles) or to fail miserably at something (If I don't study I will blow the test).
    It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
    pacomartin
    pacomartin
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    April 1st, 2012 at 9:38:32 PM permalink
    Quote: Wizard

    Is it possible that arrancar, and its derivatives, just have two very different meanings of uproot and to start? We certainly see a lot of that in English. For example blow can mean to exhale (blow out the candles) or to fail miserably at something (If I don't study I will blow the test).



    Usually there is a connection somewhere along the way, but it is possible that even etymologists can't trace the changes. Many times they just document the first written reference to a new usage.

    For instance:
    blow - in the sense of "moving air" is ancient
    blow - in the sense of "explode" or (blow-up) 1590s,
    blow - in the sense of "taking a punch" is from 17th century
    blow - in these sense "explosive outburst" is first recorded in 1809
    blow - in the sense of "squandering your money" is first seen in 1874
    blow - in the sense "depart suddenly" (blow out of here) is from 1902
    blow - in the sense of "blow-by-blow" is from 1921
    blow - in the sense of "perform fellatio" is first documented in 1933
    blow - in the sense of "enlargement from a photograph" (blow-up) is attested by 1945

    The more generic a word is, the more meanings it tends to accumulate. It is like the word run which has acquired hundreds of new meanings in the 20th century, and has become the English word with the most different meanings (about 700).

    My guess is that the meaning of "starting" began with the idea of pulling a cord to start a motor, or with the idea of pulling out of a stationary position. After a while it just took on a life of its own. But that is a guess, as I can't find any reference that confirms that idea.

    It's like the word "tire". How many English speakers know that the idea was that it was "attire" as in clothing for a car.
    Wizard
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    April 1st, 2012 at 10:05:19 PM permalink
    Quote: pacomartin


    blow - in the sense of "perform fellatio" is first documented in 1933.



    I've always wondered about that one. It would seem to me that "suck job" would be the more appropriate term. My apologies to George Carlin, who I think I'm stealing this observation from.
    It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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